Bitcoin Forum

I am at the CEX.IO atm, is there any better since on cex, fees are really high?

The best possible solution: Stop cloud mining. Have you sat down and run the numbers for cost vs. hash vs. difficulty trend? Cex.io is horrible!

You could try PBMining, but I don't know if they are legit or not.

PBmining has been confirmed as legit by numerous sources on the Bitcointalk forums although you have to buy AT LEAST 10GHs. I would have personally loved the website if they let people just by 1 GH/s.
CEX.io is what I'm currently using although I can agree, the maintenance and electrical fees take a big chunk of your profit.

Pbmining has not been confirmed as legit by any reputable source nor has PBmining ever proved to anyone that they are legitimate. They could be legitimate, but it isn't likely.

Cex.io is a money-loser. People that buy shares at the current price (7.428 mBTC) either haven't done the math or they are speculating on share price movement.

It's only good if you are lucky... I've had positive experiences trading and CEX.io, so I like it.  The current price is a bit too much, but I would suggest that if you do plan to invest in CEX.io, don't invest any more than a couple hundred GHS.

forget cloud mining dude, just but BTC and save it
invest in bitcoin directly, sell at the right prices
cloud mining won't profitable anymore, just try calculate it

really?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=484355.0

as above, its loss loss situation

Thank you for rectifying my previous claim. Further research has shown that cloud mining isn't exactly a profitable scheme. The previous people that have replied to this post hold better methods. Such as investing in BTC and holding onto it or just buy the mining equipment yourself ( depending on pricing and electrical rates )

you're welcome :)
more precisely not profitable anymore, since difficulty of bitcoin mining increase almost 20% / 12 days :(
you will get less and lesser bitcoin from cloud mining everyweek (if you use pbmining)
buy BTC - HOLD - sell in the right time to make profiit is more reliable for now
if you want mining in home, you must calculate your profit before you buy it ;D

if CEX.IO horrible how about PbMining they offer different more cheap Ghs and long term contract

check my posts #7
open the link and you can read it
pbmining cheaper but not transparent :(

yes, you was explain to me too in another thread and i guess it ponzi scheme but to many controversy out there about PBmining legit or not
but i still hope they will survive at least until my ROI  :'(

the users said it's not ponzi are they who already bought contracts in pbmining
to make keep optimistic since we can't sell our GHS contract anymore
many reasonable comment there, especially that users who calculated pbmining electriciity bill
there's no way pbmining can make profit if they still mine for 5 years, too expensive
i hope you make ROI, best way now is don't add another contracts ;D

"Hoping they will survive" until you get your money back doesn't seem like a good investment strategy to me.

Cloud mining is not profitable at all. Price for the GH/s is too high to even consider it.

PBMining is fine
haven't used Cex.io in a while but thought it was okay tbh

Whats the best cloud mining site right now?

pbmining has great prices but is most likely a scam.
cex.io is too expensive, will never ROI

i thinks is zencloud with haslet is the good 1 :D

Gotta be really careful. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Bet few if any have been really researched. It's a shot in the dark that they aren't ponzis.

I do not know where the best mining cloud, i think
pbmining has great prices but is most likely a scam.
cex.io is too expensive, will never ROI
does anyone ever tried mining with Hashlet? what do you think?

Personally i like buying equipment and you can find a host if needed.  Then at the end you have the piece of equipment.

Hashlet.... i think we will all see in 45 days or so if it was a amazing investment or what it will be.  CEX is still to high, other is too new to give good answer.

I like the CEX.IO interface. {Could not get it to work with Firefox though} The maintenance fees will kill most of your profits, so in affect, you are just funding their mining equipment, with limited gain on your investment.

PBMining - Avoid at all cost. {I have seen nothing, showing that they are acctually doing any mining} That is a indication of a ponzi running. {Yes, they will have the best price per hash, because they have no overheads to pay, like electricity / mining hardware etc.}

Until I see evidence that they mined one block, I would never invest there.

Until now, no cloud mining shows any potential to reach ROI. {Nice to do as a hobby, to have passive income, but no ROI} ROI = Return on investment

Since this thread got bumped, I will refer all new people to read this before they throw money at not-in-hand mining:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0)

Would you give a stranger on the street with a fancy sign $100 if he says he can pay back $200 over a 6 month period?

I have no Problem with CEX. Been Mining there for long time.  :)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2d8vhc/do_mining_contracts_ever_make_sense/cjndyba
"No, they make no sense. I suspect many of them will turn out to be Ponzi schemes." -Gavin Andresen

And a few of them is already gone now. :)

You should take a look at the hashlets from Gawminer.

Maybe not the best, but I use bit-miner.com (http://bit-miner.com) . They've been around for a while, had no issues with payments.
They sell a shares in mining assets, pay twice a month. You cannot sell your shares tho.

Sometimes they got really good prices per GHs

I use bit-miners.com because it as an history of confidence and its payments are quite reasonable.

I don't know.  I'm wondering if the whole thing is a scam.  I have seven miners at zencloud totaling about 23.5 MH/s running scrypt, of course, on ZenHashlets and hashlet primes using ZenPool.  My latest numbers?  BTC payout .01450690, with total maintenance fees of .00480816 for a balance of .00969874 per day, if today was an average day.  And that's with two miners not being charged maintenance fees!  When they start being charged maintenance fees, my daily fees will go over .005 BTC/day, while the daily payouts are steadily dropping.  I think the arc looks to me like I will be paying more in maintenance fees than I'm earning by about January.   I don't know what I'll do at that point, I guess I'll just tell them to turn them off and write off the expense as a learning experience.  All of that is aside from the $500 or so that I've paid for the miners.  So, as far as I can tell, all I've done is enrich the people at GAW.

You should separate your profit/loss due to mining from your profit/loss due to holding bitcoins. Compare your total income in BTC to your investment in BTC (rather than dollars). That will tell you if mining was profitable or not. Then look at the value of a bitcoin when you invested compared to the current value. That will tell you if holding bitcoins was profitable or not.

There are many but always go with the most popular out there. There's a lower possibility they would run away or something.
I recommend PbMining i have used cex.io too but in my opinion it's the best out there.

i started with CEX.IO for cloud mining but now u use it just as an exchanger

the only ad i saw from PBmining is the 5 year contract. is there any shorter one?

Hashie and GAW IMO

I think that cex.io is one of the best site for cloud mining.

It´s great if you like payouts in the negative.

cex.io is a nice site, but the shares are too expensive. If you buy shares at the current price, you are probably going to lose money because the difficulty needs to drop for the next few months in order to make a profit.

Ironically, that is actually good news. Until recently, you were practically guaranteed to lose money. People investing in cex.io shares have lost an average of around 50%.

Don't bother with cloud mining you will only lose out in the long run.

GAWminers and/or cex.io, evenly spread :)

Following is a rate comparison of different cloud mining services...

1. https://cex.io/ => 0.00268387 BTC/GHS

2. http://pbmining.com/ => 0.0021 BTC/GHS

3. http://www.cloudmining.website/ => 0.001 BTC/GHS

4. https://cloudhashing.com/ => 0.59 USD/GHS

5. https://hashie.co/ => 0.451 USD/GHS

 http://www.cloudmining.website/ ?

Never heard of them. Any sense in sending them coin ?

Found them here => https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843417.0

Site looks professional... at least better than most of the other cloud mining operators. OP is responsive as well.

I have no feedback. So can neither vouch for them nor deny them...

All right, thank you.

i think you should join pbmining so many peoples make money from there...

I am using http://cointellect.com/?code=5a3b985e so far they are paying what they promisse they also use paypal.

best regards from sliwadk

Cloud has it's problems.. i am low-investor and pbmining i used at the start, thought they would scam but didnt 6 months later, as I can't withdraw I think it possibly did make a ROI already.  It was 9GH at the time, it ended up with stupid payments after a while due to difficultly.

I have bought another 30GH there, so I got a bit more coming back to play with now, I just hope all things are well with them.

Hashie, just bought 30GH with them, they got a trial 10GH for a short time on.

GAW recently got caught with them, ZEN cloud falling apart but Genesis Hashlet (BTC mining) is still doing it's thing, I got 45GH also and it's too easy to get trapped on that site with all the offers and so-forth.  Be warned that the Always profitable statements are now problematic, hashlet maintenance costs are taking up all of the profit in some cases.

Crypto Coinstrade, was with them for a little while, you got to spend a lot with them to meet the withdrawal limits.

CEX was possibly one of the earliest and they seem to be more of an exchange now, if you do use GHS with them you might be shocked at the negative balance.

It's not that good at the moment mining, but can get some cheap deals if ur careful.

I think it is not a cloud mining service. They are asking for downloading software !!! So, people should be cautious of being infected by malware. Moreover the highest offer is 300 Mh/s @ 4999.95 Euro !!! That is ridiculous :D

Its better not to invest in cloudmining. If you are investing then try hashlets. It seems a bit more better. Cex.io is good only if you are trading+mining and you need to buy 100+ GHs for a good profit and also trade at correct time. There are bots available to do it. PBMINING doesn't seem legit in mining, so it is better to avoid it. In everything, there is risk, so be careful. Always calculate time to hit ROI before investing and also calculate at current difficulty and increase the difficulty a bit more and calculate. Try to invest only if you hit ROI by taking average of both, otherwise, you may loose.

   ~~MZ~~

I heard pbmining is a little famous about cloud mining.

Yes, it is! It is paying since 2013 but still, after ~1 year, they can't/couldn't prove that they are mining. ::)

   ~~MZ~~

Im on CEX for trading and passive mining. True, high fees and maintenance. But you can always sell back your ghs and use their site as an exchanger. And if you buy some ghs while waiting a good time to trade, you can mine passively ;)

I enjoy cex.io.

They have developed themselves as a reputable service provider and have never had an issue with them.

Very professional site in my opinion and deserves the traffic it is receiving.

+ Another good hashing site is the GAWminers hashlets one.

https://cloud.zenminer.com/

I'm a little confused on that one.

PBmining for all of life, I love it. Because cex.io have more price changes than pb mining, so I think that this is more stable than cex.io. It is not a case that I've signature of pbmining :)

CEX.IO with fees and maintenance costs is very expensive but in any moment you can sell GHS - this point is very good. PBmining is probably the cheapest on market: price 0.0015 / GHS - and that is what people are looking for.

Ps. If someone decide to invest in PBmining - PM me, i will tell you how to get 5% more power for free ;)

PBmining is no more the cheapest. It was so a few days back. Now it is 0.0021 BTC/GHS. Verify it @ pbmining.com. It seems www.cloudmining.website has the lowest offer at the moment. It is 0.001 BTC/GHS.

Sent the cloudmining.website guys 0.01 to try it out. If it flops I´ve given mere chicken feed to petty thieves, LOL.

PBmining price is 0.0015/GHS if you see 0.0021 thats your browser issue - you have to refresh site (sometimes few times).

Thats PBmining investment stats (not mine):
https://i.imgur.com/Gifka8m.png

If you show me something like this from www.cloudmining.website - maybe i will try..

I don't think so! ::)


   ~~MZ~~

Stay away from cloud mining you'll only get hurt in the long run.

Yeah, I´m sure you and Muhammed got screwed and I don´t give a hoot.

Any feedback from cloudmining.website? Is their launch today?

What do you mean by that? ??? I am a miner of Cex.io and PBMining. I have no problem. If you are telling this by seeing any of my posts, please post the quote so I can correct your misunderstanding. :)

   ~~MZ~~

According to the following post, they launched yesterday...

Did you get hurt? If not how can you state it as a fact if you have no actual experience?

Because, that is what most of the people here do the best - SPECULATION. Whenever they see the word Cloud Mining, they get blind and start screaming fanatically.

I used to be a miner at Cex, PBMining, GAW, etc. most of them are not profitable nowdays !!

So, if u cant make proper difficulty calculation, they are responsible for it ? I'd also like to know statistically, how did u end up by not making profit on PB Mining ?

Nope, i am not quoting anyone responsible for anything. All I am saying is they are no more profitable than they were.

For ex Gaw is used to be very profitable when they launched the Prime for 16$/Mh. ZenPool was paying out great and everything was fine. ROI was just 2 to 3 months. Then they increased the price of Prime to 40$ and then to 50$, at the same time Zenpool payout was gradually decreases day-by-day. Now the ROI is more than 390+ days, without calculating the difficulty.

This is normal for any cloud mining service. When they launch, they give lucrative offer where u can make sure profit, like the current offer of www.cloudmining.service. But, with time they'll gain trust and increase their offer where making profit will be dependent on BTC price fluctuation, like in the case of PB mining & GAW now. At Cex, u can make profit, only if u can trade well, but not from mining.

With Trade ?! And that to 'Trade Well' !!

'Trade well' is the key word here, for most of them trading doesn't come naturally. Anyway, we are talking about cloud mining here. ROI has to be 2 to 3 months, anything more than that will not be much useful as difficult tends to increase and other market factors also affects the price. So I have moved out of most of the cloud mining sites except LTCGear (http://ltcgear.com?apage=174), which has a ROI in 7 to 8 weeks, even at the low BTC rates.

I have been a member for little less than a year. LTCGear (http://ltcgear.com?apage=174) has been run by Chris who is one of the developer of Litecoin and FPGA designer for 15 years. Payouts are done weekly on Friday without fail!

At present he is running a anniversary package of 1600 shares [160 MH], for $1800. With discount coupon: "anniversary1yr" you can get it for $900. If you pay by Bitcoins via coinpayments you get an additional 7% discount leading the price to around 840$. With around $5.3/Mh, this is the cheap and best in the industry with ROI of 7 to 8 weeks.

If you want to try, here is the link:
LTCGear (http://ltcgear.com?apage=174)  <-- My shameless referral link :)

I agree it is best to stop cloud mining altogether. Use this calculator to help you see that it is futile to make a profit:
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

Bump  :o

Try LTCGear (http://ltcgear.com?apage=174)!

Stop using cloud mining if you really want to earn a profit just buy a miner cloud mining doesn't make any sense they are selling it to you for less just for you to make a profit when they could be running it instead of you?  ??? ???

True, but you are forgetting the electricity cost, hardware setup, noise, space, heat and so on

Guy what do you think about hashprofit? Any feedback after the "promotional week"?

I'm trying out cloudmining.website. As promotional offer they are giving 0.001 BTC/GHS. If u chose them to use, please use my referral www.cloudmining.website/?r=2130

Are you aware that it is not possible to turn a profit cloud mining? The only ones profiting from cloud mining are the Asic manufactures , the cloud providers, and the people promoting the affiliate programs.

We need to be honest to new users.

Why are you promoting a site with everything out of stock? Do they have one product that is in stock?

The price 0.001 btc / GHS sounds a bit too good to be true IMHO. You'd better be careful before buying hashrate from it.

Someone asked the same Q in their thread. Following is an excerpt...

Even if they have free electricity and relatively cheap ASIC directly from manufacturers, the price is as I said a bit too good to be true.
The price is that low possibly just because the site wants to attract customers, or it could be something less pleasant. I don't know which one is the real case, and so I would play safe here.
Just my two cents. :)

Whether it is a scam or not is moot as the user will still end up losing money.

20% average difficulty increase is a good estimate.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

IMO, 20% was a good estimate for the period before June 2014.
But the difficulty increase has slowed down since then. The increase rates from July 2014 onwards are 3.08%, 8.08%, 5.30%, 20.86%, 15.03%, 8.75%, 16.20%, 0.98% and 2.81% according to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Will it speed up once again? May be. Will it go back up to 20% every 12 days? May be.
But it is hard to predict.

That is a very rational approach in my opinion. I dont want to miss this low offer too... Just awaiting some confirmations that they are paying out.

Ltcgear is my favorite.

Do they have any product that is available right now? If not than why even bother talking about them?


The next jump is expected to be 9.57% in 1.6 days thus a 13.36% rise this last month which is indeed a slowdown but this has to be averaged in with higher months where we have seen over 100% rises. Bitcoin difficulty is correlated to price and being that Bitcoin is currently bear at the moment one would expect the rise in difficulty to slow. Based upon historical data this should reverse once Bitcoin goes bull and thus one should conservatively expect a 20% average and even than run a risk of losing money.

Stop promoting SCAM >:(

The guys who are paying for your signature wouldn't be happy seeing this post :D

You mean like KNC, Bitfury, and of course, BFL?

Anyway, you have to wonder why a cloud mining company would go through the effort and expense of buying miners, setting them up,  running and maintaining them, and then go and sell the mined bitcoins at a discount to their customers.

Some of them, unlike the ones you mentioned, are not mining, just selling.

The answer that comes to my mind is immediate gain. Cloud mining operations get the money upfront, just like it once was with pre-orders. Nowadays less and less people trust in pre-orders, so the sellers are offering cloud.

Either way neither is making money, getting frustrated, investing in some PoS scamcoin due to frustration with PoW and than possibly leaving the crypto-currency scene altogether.

Lets be honest. Someone show me one example where you can turn a profit mining.

Why do you people sound so desperate ?

Scammers apart, the problem is not profit, because sooner or later you'll get it. But the answer is when? After your ROI (several months on average) of course.

Are they showing u any sign of return or have stolen ur money as expected ?

They are showing a payout for that 10 GHS

Latest Payout  0.00013975 BTC
Latest Payout Date  2014-11-04 00:00:01

www.cloudmining.website/?r=2143

0.00013975 BTC for 1 day?

That was all the info I have

10 GHS 0.00013975

Daily payout should be clear by the second payout.

So is this true?

Let me know, because if that's a daily payment, your ROI will be in less than 3 months and this is quite interesting.

Guys you still pay electrical bills even when cloud mining....people seem to think its more beneficial but it really isn't you might as well fork some money out on some proper mining kit.

AMhash1 0.00125 per GH - featured on havelock. check my signature NOT a referral link.

No it isn't. They are legit! :)

   ~~MZ~~

It is not desperation, but simply ones ethical duty to be honest about the ramifications of their actions.
Some people rationalize promoting cloud mining as an affiliate or directly because they figure that ultimately they are promoting the hashing power of the network and earning a profit doing so and the expense of a newbie making a negative profit is justified.

I am merely suggesting that this behavior is hurting the Bitcoin ecosystem by promoting centralization and discrediting us through dishonesty. All of these users who cannot do the math or are mislead by calculators that don't reflect difficulty increasing will eventually realize in 4-5 months that they just lost a certain percentage of their investment and their is no possible way to turn a profit.

Is this really a scam site?

As someone has already mentioned , these rates are somewhat cheap and thus a possible ponzi cloud mining operation. But lets just assume that it is a legit site for a moment....

Your suggestion indicates less than an 8% difficulty increase average per month. In what historical context is that remotely accurate? If you consider a sudden new paradigm shift in average difficulty increasing what is this foresight that you have? Why should any new user bother to cloud mine when they would turn a greater profit by buying bitcoin directly and holding onto it?

That´s what they told me five months ago. And since then I´ve been making .5-1%/day cloud mining.

Great. Thank you for being open to discuss this. Let's go over the numbers together openly so everyone can see if it makes sense.

So We know you started in June 2014 mining. We know that you get paid as an affiliate(those profits should be excluded because we are talking about the profitability of cloud mining and not profits from being an affiliate). We know that you are speaking about http://www.cloudmining.website which has a reported 0.001BTC per GH/s rate, is that what you signed up for in June? How many GH's did you purchase?

Why do you sound so desperate about my investments?

I sure as hell don´t give a flying eff about yours.

This discussion isn't about you or me but merely an academic one to see if one could actually turn a profit cloud mining.

since you are promoting new users to invest in cloud mining you are concerned about the quality and honesty of the service right?

Is there any evidence that cloudmining.website site/service and those rates even existed 5 months ago?

Best cloud mining site = just buy BTC on exchange man ;)

I´m not promoting anything. Just wondering why you and those other screwballs
are so desperate to save people from themselves.

Are you suggesting you are not an affiliate for cloudmining.website?

Are you saying that we shouldn't have solidarity and openly and honestly help each other out by discussing accurate information?

I´m not practically begging people to do this or don´t do that like this nutball. LOL.

If they want to click my link they do it otherwise not. It´s not an issue.

You can do whatever you want and promote whatever you want. I just find it interesting that you first claim that you aren't promoting them and than admit spreading affiliate links.

If you are promoting a good product that you believe in than what is the harm in discussing the numbers openly and honestly?

I'll help you promote your affiliate link if you are right and have turned a profit over the last 5 months mining on the cloud as you indicate. Why so paranoid about my intentions?

***crickets***

Don´t pop a vein. LOL.

Please let me know what figures u want to openly discuss regarding www.cloudmining.website or PBmining.com.

I'm perfectly calm, sir, and will even help promote your affiliate link for you if you can show you are making a profit from cloud mining directly as you claim.

Why are you so scared to do the math openly and honestly? If your claims are true than you should certainly get more people clicking on your affiliate links.

Thank You.

1) How long has cloudmining.website been operational as a service /site and what is its relationship to PBmining.com?
2) Has either service ever been able to provide a cloud mining contract that has been profitable to any miner, ever?
3) If so, than what contract , what were the rates , and what were the time frames?

1) Following excerpt is taken from cloudmining.website thread...


I dont think PB Mining is anyway related to cloudmining.website. I dont know why r u asking this. If u have any info supporting this fact, please show.


2) If u search reddit, u'll find numerous stories that who invested in PB in late 2013 are in profit now. Those were the early days of PB. But, AFAIK PB is no more profitable. But cloudmining.website has just launched with a great offer which is not going to last long as stated by themselve.



3) With 0.001 BTC/GHs rate your investment turns profitable within 3 months.


I think, I have successfully answered your queries. So, if u decide them to join, please use my referral (http://www.cloudmining.website/?r=2130).

Since these fruitcakes are so desperate to know if this or that is a scam the simplest way would obviously be to invest lousy 20 bucks or so to find out. But instead they sit around for months with their contentless yapping.

And when the initial offer goes, they jump in and lament that the services are not profitable :D

No, you are avoiding the question by sending me down a wild goose chase.
I had a very simple question of one example of an advertised contract rate that turned a profit. Tell me the company, product/rate and date.


So you are suggesting users invest in a 3 day old company that has never sold a product that has addressed my initial concerns?

Why do you assume difficulty will remain below 8%  Don't you consider this extremely improbable judging history? You realize we have another 9.4% expected increase in 11 hours right?


Why do you assume I have never mined BTC before?
Your advice is users should simply hand Bitcoins over to strangers without doing their due diligence and seeing if the company is reputable and the investment is wise?
It sounds to me that you are insinuating that it doesn't matter if someone is scammed if it is a small amount? The principle doesn't matter?

So, according to u, how long will it take to break even 0.001 BTC/GHs accounting for the rising difficulty ?

No, the company is NOT 3 day old. I did my research before sending them the coins. cloudmining.website first came to this forum to rent miners. Check this => https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=829552.0. So, they are actually mining and according to them they were mining for private contract. They were mining for private contract or for themselve is actually unimportant to me. What is important is they are actually mining. Now, they have opened that mining contract for public only for 3 days.

Now, I'm sure, u'll ask for picture, mining address, flight ticket for a data canter tour etc. etc. That really does not matter to me because those who made profit on PB mining were not offered any of those. U even still dont know where GHash is mining. It is actually unknown for all cloud mining companies and given the grey bitcoin tax rules in most of the countries, it is very normal for me. U can definitely wait for years to see proofs while I'll keep making profit by distributing my investment into different ventures. :)

I like PBMining. PBMining has a good price for a single Gh/S and a good system for payment, I appreciate it so much. I advice you to try it.

He is reluctant to try anything new. He wants people to spoon feed profit to him :P

I´m curious as to how this guy KNOWS that these companies only mine BTC. Or maybe he thinks that all coins have the same difficulty level.

I'm not really asking for much information or proof. A company , a rate , and a time frame and I can work out the math and verify the claims independently. You don't even need to provide a link.


It isn't according to me, I make no claims to absolute certainty that a user cannot and will not turn a profit mining. For all we know difficulty could decrease.

What I am claiming is it is doubtful that any cloud mining contract has been profitable to any normal user at any time in Bitcoins history, and extremely improbable that current advertised contracts will be profitable.

You are suggesting that one could turn a profit "0.001 BTC/GHs rate your investment turns profitable within 3 months."

My opinion on the matter doesn't matter as it is simple math to determine that one would need less than 8% difficulty increment average to get anywhere in meeting these claims.

Is that what you are suggesting?


Non Sequitur. I never suggested that and am merely addressing the claim -
"0.001 BTC/GHs rate your investment turns profitable within 3 months."

I'm not suggesting u anything. I'm merely providing u facts & figures to think logically. We have supplied enough information to U. Now, u please do some math and show us how long should it take to break even with 0.001 BTC/Ghs accounting for the possible difficulty increase :)

So he´s never heard of cloud mining operations that along with mining BTC mine alts and convert to BTC.

Using an ASIC can I mine Bitcoin and some Altcoin at the same time ?

Certainly:
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

Loss in profit under this contract
At  0.001 BTC/Ghs a 30% difficulty increment average will never have a breakeven point.
At  0.001 BTC/Ghs a 25% difficulty increment average will never have a breakeven point.
At  0.001 BTC/Ghs a 20% difficulty increment average will never have a breakeven point.
At  0.001 BTC/Ghs a 18% difficulty increment average will never have a breakeven point.

At  0.001 BTC/Ghs a 15% difficulty increment average will never have 147 day breakeven point.
At  0.001 BTC/Ghs a 8% difficulty increment average will never have 88 day breakeven point.

Are you suggesting that we should expect anything below 10% as a running average?

This doesn't include other risks like this cloud mining site being a ponzi scheme and walking away on people contracts after getting enough initial signups(Only open to the public for 3 days and many other questionable concerns from looking at the site) and potential investment lost potential risks of simply buying bitcoin now vs slowly mining through a bubble.


You can sometimes mine namecoin and bitcoin together without splitting of hashing power with certain contracts. I'm not aware of the ability to do so with the one he is promoting.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=829552.0

Why on earth is this guy so stuck on this idea that cloud mining companies only mine BTC?

I mean, he´s obsessed with BTC difficulty and how that will wipe out profits. So obviously he thinks that these operations are totally BTC one way street,

I was addressing one type of contract/claim. If you want to change the topic feel free and we can discuss it.

Let me know of an alt cloud mining contract that you believe is a wise investment. product/rate/alt

Why would you assume that they hold the alt crap they mine?

The chance of vanishing in the thin air is applicable for each and every BTC company. So there is no point raising the concern only for www.cloudmining.website (http://www.cloudmining.website/?r=2130). But, u r accepting the fact that U can breakeven even at 15% difficulty increase with the rate they are offering and still arguing ? Now I doubt if u r posting just to pad up your post count to join a signature campaign !!! ::)

No, he pushes scams with his other accounts.

I never made that assumption and would always convert my mined alts with my rigs to BTC as well. This was merely for "store of value" reasons however as I would never waste my time supporting and profiting off of scamcoins. Legitimate alts are fine to leverage for profit though.

If you want to discuss an alt cloud mining contract that you think is wise to invest in go ahead.


Evidence?


Just because many cloud service providers can pack up and steal from clients doesn't mean that they are all equally likely to. There are many ways to tell, and I have suggested one of them thus far, that a business is more likely to be a scam.

Of course I am suggesting that with that rate one could break even with 15%, that's what I wrote right? I am suggesting that new users should try and use a 20% figure as a fair approximation based upon past history and that this rate advertised here along with other issues brings in other concerns as well.


FYI-- I don't think it is wise for anyone to buy cloud mining from any company so it is safe to assume that I'm not some shill for a competitor.

P.S.... It is impossible for me to be trying to bump my post count, check my profile I'm at 14 which means any post I make until the next cycle doesn't effect my activity.

I get some alt dogs from Genesis. It´s peanuts, only .25 BTC invested. They need to lower prices by a third at least for me to put in more.

So you are suggesting that in the past it was a wise investment and now it isn't for Genesis?

What product/rate and time period did you buy those alt contracts (the dollar amount you invested doesn't matter as this isn't about you or me but merely discussing the math for new users to learn)

I´m suggesting that it´s too expensive. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension.

I understood you , that's why I said as much.

So your past .25 BTC invested with Genesis was also a poor investment or not?

You just insinuated cloud mining alts instead of BTC was wise, you aren't reversing your opinion this quickly are you?

If it was a wise investment than what rate/time period/product did you buy?

It´s not a poor investment. It yields .5-.6%/day. It´s a lousy quarter BTC.

But I´m happier with my bigger .8-1%/day yields elsewhere.

Product/ Time period/ Rate  please. Telling me percentages a day isn't very useful to anyone if difficulty is constantly adjusting. I don't know if you are deliberately avoiding the questions or subconsciously embarrassed to answer directly because you are embarrassed by the results or don't really want to know the truth.

This is one source of the confusion for many new miners as they use simple calculators which don't account for difficulty increasing.

We (hopefully) want to be honest with new miners by properly representing history and future expectations.

None of your business.

Actually I started out five months ago with 2 BTC and added nothing since then, which now earn about 1.75 BTC/month. Compound interest is a wonderful thing.

You realize that I am asking for the details that do not invade your privacy and you are giving me details that do invade your privacy; How Ironic.

This isn't about you and I don't care how much money you invested.

I'm trying to have a general conversation about products freely advertised on the internet and need to know the date when invested because contract terms constantly change.

I realize that you are a contentless nobody that I shouldn´t waste my time on so bye, bye.

Again, stop taking things personally. This isn't about me or you, but about educating new users
with accurate information.

If you truly believed in your products that you are promoting either because you are an affiliate or work directly for these companies than what I am asking for is very reasonable.

You place integrity before profits right? Honesty is important right?


Have you ever made a profit with them? If so what contract /product /date range?

you should try pbmining.com
for best service at best rates

best rate = 0.001 BTC/GHs by cloudmining.website


I'm planning to invest in cloudmining.website and would like to know, except for being new, what are the questionable concerns those are present in this site and absent in PB mining, Cloud Hashing or Hashie ?

You shouldn't invest in any of them but here are the concerns about cloudmining.website

1) recently purchased domain
2) Rates cheaper than competitors (still not wise investment even if not a scam though)
3) Only open for business publicly for 3 days
4) Private whois
5) Lack of known owners and contact information like phone number and address

Replied in your quote.

cloudmining.website is a new website and there are not much reviews about them
pbmining.com is an old and trusted site also you can check their thread for customer review about their service

Let's wait some feedback on cloudmining.website
What's your ROI on pbmining guys?

This is no solid reason of rejection. Once upon a time PB mining was a new website too and their design was far worse than what cloudmining.website is today. Moreover I have made money on PB mining previously. I gave it a try when PB was new. I'll give cloudmining.website a try for the same reason.


U r correct. I waited for feedback and hence did not rush in on the first day. Now, as there are +ve feedbacks coming, I think its time to make the move. The offer may not last for long.

PBmining is the best, for sure.

but bitcoincloudservices has better prices and daily payout (which is great for highers hash rate but not so good for small ones) + 7 days money back policy

I also tried hashie ... so far looks good, it is lifetime purchase (but they charge fees) ... I like the auto-rebuy option and also you can sell your miners.

So cloudmining.website has daily earnings? What's his ROI?

PBmining is very famous, I knew about it from a while from ads on faucets and review sites, CEX.io currently isn't a mining site now but mainly a trading site imo.
There is one called hashle or hashie where you get trial 10 gb but can't withdraw profit except after spending $20 on site but at least provide idea about the site mining process.

Please be careful and research into cloud mining before spending any money.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

“How do you know that when you send money to a cloud mining place they are actually dedicating hardware to hashing for you? What stops them from practicing ‘fractional reserve mining’ — reselling the same hardware to eleven different people, and using the money coming in to pay Fantabulous Weekly Returns With Profitability Guaranteed?”

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0

All I know is PBmining

In my first contract with cloudminingservice (bought at july 2014) I have already back 90% but actual payout is so low, that I thing ROI roughly in Jan - Feb next year.

So ROI in 8-9months?

Guys, what do you think about hashprofit.com? Their payback time forecast is 4-7 months with a trial of 200kh/s for a week

I have used both PBMining and CEX.io. Both work pretty well.
CEX.io is maybe a touch easier to navigate

Good news are coming from cloudmining.website. I hope they keep this rate...

Hey dude! you can try other things in mining and engage with the legit and i know PBmining is a legit and you can try it...as many say it very ok and you need to purchase a miimum GHs..and hope you find what you looking for...BTC

No, you should only expect a negative ROI or loss from any cloud mining service. I have yet to hear any proof otherwise. Notice how proponents use dishonest representations and misleading suggestions rather than simply discussing examples where they turned a profit by verifying a specific claim.

Product name , date range , rate ? (payout per day and amount invested aren't sufficient to validate claims)

Has there ever been an example of any Bitcoin cloud mining contract in history that has been profitable for the investor?

True, this make me think every time. And even if I'm on cex actually, I agree with you.

Below is a proof of profit someone posted in PB mining thread. He invested in PB mining in its early days while everyone was doubting it to be a Ponzi and will vanish with people's money...


U were arguing the same thing yesterday and claimed that at 15% difficult increase www.cloudmining.website will show u profit at 148th day. Today we know that the difficulty increase has been 10%. Still u r claiming that one cant make profit with Cloud Mining ?




Are u hypocrite or trolling for some agenda ?

There is no need to see "projected" charts of "expected" ROI. Tell me the rate and the date invested and I will simply calculate the profit loss based upon real historical data.

If I take those Price per GH/s rates ranging from 0.00754893 to 0.005300133 in those date ranges and calculate them with real world historical data than none of these contracts resulted in profit as you suggest.

You have been misled and are misleading others spreading a chart which doesn't take into account dynamic increases in difficulty.


The mining difficulty was indeed only 13.84% this last month which was a historical low. One should not expect this month in and month out. Already there is a 11% estimate jump in 12 days setting a pace for a 22-25% difficulty for this month. Notice how the 15% figure has a Breakeven return of 147 days based upon that rate ? This means one month of 13.84 isn't going to turn a profit or even breakeven. One needs and average of at least 5 months of 15% or lower to do this!

Judging from past historical data it is reasonable to suggest investors to expect at least a 20% average difficulty per month. This is a conservative estimate. Go ahead and look at past historical difficulty and see that almost every month had higher than 20% and some over 100%. Yes, as I have already said, it is possible to turn a profit cloud mining. I am merely suggesting that I doubt anyone has done so mining Bitcoin in the past with cloud mining and it is extremely unlikely to happen with any current advertised contracts.

What agenda could I possibly have besides expecting a honest and accurate dialogue of the facts?  


To be clear I like bitcoin and am personally invested in it, don't promote any alts, believe it is also almost impossible to profit from buying an asic as well, don't promote any other scheme of PoS/DPoS/ect, don't promote or work for any exchange /money transmitter/Am not a troll...

So let me hear about your wild conspiracy theories as to my intended "agenda".

Just rough estimation.

have no experience with them


Im not using dates, names and numbers just to keep my privacy. ... I don't like sharing details with strangers, especially when it's about money ...
So its up to you if believe me or not. Moreover, to be honest,  Im not 100% sure whether will reach ROI alone (so far seems I will) but can tell you most of profit came from ref. earnings (thats a pure profit).   

I can give you ratios of my contract
invest (x), received (y), last payout (z)

y / x = 0,89478166 ( this is my 90% invest back)
z / x = 0,00442469  this was payout nr. 125 (days)

That's all Im willing to provide you.

Well sure, being an affiliate can be profitable, but isn't it essentially a ponzi/pyramid scheme if no one has profited from the mining itself?

My questions has nothing to do with specific details of what people invested but merely asking for a date of contract purchase and the advertised rate. Your privacy is intact as you could say your friend took a contract for unknown BTC on this date at this rate.

Cloudmining.Website is looking good so far

Witdrawal to wallet next monday

This for 30 GHS

Latest Payout  0.00041926 BTC
Latest Payout Date  2014-11-06 00:00:02

i think cex.io is the best !

Cex is very good but I never managed to mine shift there  ;D

Yep! Same here for 20 GHS:

Latest Payout  0.0002795 BTC
Latest Payout Date  2014-11-06 00:00:02

Price is still 0.001 BTC per GHs but can change any moment.
For everyone who want to invest in Cloudmining.Website here:  is my referral (http://www.cloudmining.website/?r=2144).

Just waiting for monday (withdrawal day).. to buy more :)

.... Crickets.....

Still not one example of someone turning a profit from cloud mining?

I see what the end scheme of cloud mining is. It is merely a pyramid scheme where users are paid to promote a scam through an affiliate program.

Plenty of people earned profit from hashlets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752824.0

The example you cited was a 1MH/s Scrypt Asic. I have been talking about cloud mining BTC if you have been following the thread. Other alts don't have difficulty shooting up as quickly as BTC. I agree that if you get lucky and pick the right alt you can make a small profit with scrypt asics. Not necessarily a wise investment though as it is risky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv_TA2S2z34

Did you encountered any problems in cex.io?

cex.io is very bad IMO. The maintenance cost it charges is way too high (a crazy 80% fee now, at $0.105 per GHS per month).

The highest fees probably, but not a single problem. Maybe cex is not convenient but reliable for sure.

I did read some people saying they get their investment back plus some profits from pbmining, but I am not sure if it is true or not.

Their investment back in how many months? That's the most important thing

Instead of whining about this for weeks or months on end

why don´t you guys spend lousy 20 bucks and find out  ;D

With google search, I found the post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418183.msg8514170#msg8514170 in which the poster said he reached the break-even point within 5 months.
Again as I said, I have no idea if it is true or not.

Look, I could pass a hat around for you if things are tight.

Today i get 0.00683662 BTC from  https://hashprofit.com  (https://hashprofit.com/en/registration/?hp=85667). We'll see if I take back 0.023 paid for activating account .. :)

https://blockchain.info/sv/tx/8dbae15f36937b7b78cedc291d7010922ddf45b009b3fbbaeb3e9e0259e784d8

Yep, I'm waiting their trial week too ;)

Balance 0.009 BTC after the trial week with 200 Kh/s on hashprofit.com

21% Discount on Cloudminr.io:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854951.20;topicseen

User "Puppet" has recently created a thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860400.0 offering an easy-to-read comparison between different cloud mining sites. You guys may want to take a look at it and make your comments there.

There is nothing to comment, if someone is using argument that because of security reasons don't want give informations - mining is anonymous, and giving examples of well known companies that just closed business and run away.. and this is true. This is high risk market and doesn't matter if "Puppet" give them high rank or not...

Here's another list and ranking of cloud mining services: http://www.cmmonitor.com/
As can we see, are very different from each other .. As I wrote in the previous post - it is difficult and risky market, so everyone should to be very careful.

CoIntellect.com ~ Probably a ponzi, but I think if you get in now and pull out ASAP you'll get some profit.

ROI = ~9 days.

Maybe this is not ponzi.. That can be something worse.. Did you read this article?

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112424/is-cointellect-a-scam

Hashlets have been pretty darn good for me so far also.

A 9-day ROI is way too good to be true for mining, no matter what coins and hardware you are mining with.

BTW, the comment section there is full of referral link spams lol.

Same for me..  + primes looks like a great investment now

A lot of people pumping ponzi schemes in this thread, some of which have already collapsed.
I wonder what goes through an affiliates head when they realize that they knowingly or naively misled their fellow brethren into a ponzi scheme for profit? Any guilt or shame? I wonder which cloud mining operation will collapse next?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387

PBmining.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi already collapsed
Lunaminer.com         1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi already collapsed
coinsoncloud.eu       1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi already collapsed
Skycoinlab.com        1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (subject to address verification)
CoIntellect.com       1+2+3+4+5+6+7++    => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ requiring likely malware/wallet stealing software)
Cryptomine.io         1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
GenerateBTC.com       1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
cloudmining.website   1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
cloudminr.io          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
grmining.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
eobot.com             1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ possible malware/wallet stealing software)
nexusmining.com       1+2*+3+4+5+7       => 6/7 = Ponzi (Guy from Spondoolies says im wrong, but I cant score what I havent seen and he seems to confirm they have no hardware)
minerslab.com         1+2+3+4+6+7        => 6/7 = Ponzi (+ selling hardware that doesnt exist + using purchased "legendary" account)
terrabox.me           1+2+3*+4+5+6+7*    => 6/7 = Ponzi (pictures are not convincing to me for now, exit strategy involves  60+ days stall tactic)
bitcoincloudservices  1+2+4+5+6*+7       => 6/7 = Ponzi (+ founded by known scammer  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860400.msg9638868#msg9638868)
hashie.co ("gen1")    1+2+3+4+5+6        => 6/7 = Ponzi
chabatmining.com          1+2+3+5+6+7        => 6/7 = Ponzi
hashcoin.com         ~1+2+3+4+7          => 5/7 = (very) suspicious (user selectable pool requires fee, dc pictures show no miners, linkedin profile doctored, hardware sales very dubious,..)
ltcgear               1+3+4+5+6          => 5/7 = (very) suspicious (info welcome)
Zeushash              1+2+3+4+5          => 5/7 = (very) suspicious (info welcome)
GAWminers             1+4+5+~7           => 4/7*= Possibly/partially legit based on criteria set forth. Based on wider context: more suspicious than a nun squatting in a cucumber field


This is just a short list of confirmed and likely ponzi's. Most cloud mining providers are either ponzi's or fractional reserve mining.

Before you invest on any cloud mining site. Please take your time to read this post:
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.0)

#puppet4lyfe
#masterscub

Please stop supporting and promoting scams.

Reasons please. :)

   ~~MZ~~

Are you asking why you should be a decent person or why I believe you are promoting scams?

You keep promoting cloud mining operations which are obvious ponzi schemes where the owners can trivially provide evidence to dispel these concerns and don't.

It is one thing to have misguided faith and ignorantly invest your own money into a scheme and something much different to actively promote ponzi's for profit as an affiliate. Doing so is wrong whether you know its a ponzi or not as one should have higher evidential standards if they are promoting a product.

So are you are charlatan or just credulous?

Credulous maybe. Generally, ponzis won't allow us to sell the hashpower whenever we want. So they seem to be legit for me, that's why I suggested. :)

   ~~MZ~~

I appreciate your honesty.

I am perfectly fine with you investing into these ponzi's(I'll feel bad for you and warn you but you should have the liberty to make bad decisions) but don't you believe you have an ethical obligation to have higher levels evidence a cloud mining operation isn't a ponzi before promoting it for profit, especially in a newbie section where new users can easily be scammed?

I don't invest in Ponzi's knowingly. As I have said in my post, they allow us to sell hashpower when we want which isn't an option that Ponzi's would add. Anyway, I have deleted my post.

About the thread in Service Discussion: I like to know others opinions about their service. :)

   ~~MZ~~

Ponzi's can very well have that as an option especially since there is no necessary expectation of a ROI because of variable fluctuations in difficulty.

I'm trying to have an honest dialogue with you and you completely sidestepped my question. You still have an affiliate sig where you are promoting a likely ponzi for profit.

Cryptomine.io         1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387

Don't you believe you have an ethical obligation to have higher levels evidence a cloud mining operation isn't a ponzi before promoting it for profit?
For goodness sake they are using a registered address as a location and no listed names besides 1 "technical consultant" with absolutely know evidence they are mining.

I didn't know that! From HP, most of the persons have hit ROI. ::)


Hmmm... You are right, I joined it for profit. I don't promote gambling sites, so this is my only option when considering signature campaigns. I can join Bitin.io but I manage it so I don't want to join it and get BTC for it but now I am thinking about promoting it for free. I have removed the signature. I may go now, if it possible, please post in the thread that I have removed the signature. Thanks!

   ~~MZ~~

Thank you, please keep being an awesome part of the human species that is willing to change for the benefit of everyone.
I sent a tip to your - 1MZakirz92c76pK6BNy1NAEmbWYpDcP7mh address in solidarity.

I haven't done anything to receive your "Thank You" but, You are welcome!. And, thanks for the tip, really appreciate it! :)

   ~~MZ~~