Bitcoin Forum

A community announcement.

I have as much of a relationship with cryptoxchange as Jason Khanlar (miserydearia) does with intersango.
My previous post about Intersango/bitcoinconsultancy stems from a misunderstanding in that witcoin and miserydearia are listed on the front page of their companies website and for my statements about their involvement in a possible theft i apologise.

This does not solve the original issue however in that there is still people who would like access to their accounts from http://witcoin.com (http://witcoin.com)

On numerous occasions miserydearia has been offered vps hosting and support  in order to run the witcoin script and let people recover their accounts but has failed at every opportunity to do so. You have one last chance. You (again) have a vps for 30-60 days in which to run the script on and allow recovery of accounts and I suggest withdrawals only allowed. Whatever bitcoin is left over will go to the bitcoin100 charity drive.

In the end I do not control the witcoin wallet and I ask people to pressure the one who does to do the honourable and correct thing.

https://gitorious.org/intersango/witcoin is the old "code" I assume, though it comes without docs. :)

How about a little background/history for the clueless among us?

Mizerydearia was the developer and built all the code for witcoin. I payed for the domains and vps it was hosted on. After intsersango hired Miz to go to Poland the site was killed and the code taken after I made a demand that it be worked on and that I wanted to take it in a different more professional direction.

And you don't have a copy of the code, I take it?

How many BTC are we talking about?

The site had about 400 last I heard.

Theres a copy on gitorious as I linked to. However it doesnt have any docsumentation.

Its not about the code itsthe coins that are missing that is the issue.

Im not a coder and never claimed to be and Ive tried personally dealing with this issue over private channels without getting anywhere. Its not about coding its a simple theft claim. :)

I would like some explanation for the laziness to hand peoples coins back which I have demanded since they took the code down.

Intersango is a major exchange and id hate for them to get embroiled in a criminal case.

I pointed http://www.forum.witcoin.com/ (http://forum.witcoin.com/) at this thread.

Just to be clear dearia has been offered more than one vps to get the code running again and let people reclaim coins. The response has been "Im too lazy"

There are many bitcoin elders who can confirm my actions and my good faith in trying to chase this up.

https://bitcoinconsultancy.com/  fwiw the same dev is listed on bitcoinconsultancy, the company behind intersango.

I am not part of intersango or bitcoinconsultancy. I used to run bitcoinmedia.com till Genjix took over. I assumed they had good faith and the best interests of users in their heart but apparently if youre a witcoin user you can be ripped off and left without an explanation. It needs to be fixed and NOW.

BitcoinMedia/Genjix/BitcoinConsultancy seem to be very professional and honest. I'm sure there's a decent explanation.

I suspect it is "too much to do, too little time". But when other people's money is in your possession, it doesn't seem to me that procrastinating is an option. How much has it been since witcoin ceased operation -- almost a year?

Yes its been that log chasing it up and asking  Genjix and 'dearia to fix it. Hopefully community pressure will where I cant.

Can you go after the bitscalper guy too?   ;D

I wish I could go after all the scammers. Id have my btc and my sanity lol.

https://i.imgur.com/RJwyA.png

Oh look its even listed o their site as BELONGING TO THEM.

I've just joined the guys over at Intersango/Bitcoinconsultancy.

I can vouche for them being up to their eyeballs. They really don't have time to wipe their arse.

Also this is the first I've heard about this, so I'll get onto the others and see whats the story. If what crypto has said is true then I'll take care of it.

I'm talking with Crypto about this so when we get it sorted out we'll put ...summary? here.

Nefario.

Thanks Nefario. This should have been sorted 12 months ago.

There has been 3 or more people offer free hosting for witcoin but the response has been "im too lazy and cant be bothered". If thats the way intersango employees treat their customers I would not feel comfortable holding my money with them.

amiller,chmod755,and Ken from cryptoxchange can confirm this.

I still remember your arguments with mizerydearia a couple months back where he accused you and Ken Armitt from Cryptoexchange of wanting to steal the site from him or something along those lines.

Please remind us what was it exactly. You're not telling the whole story...
Please note: I'm not accusing you or Ken, it's just something I recall, but I don't remember the details

I put my foot down because the bitcoind daemon hadnt been working for weeks. I told Ken about these issues and he offered hosting and development assisstance which mizerydearia refused and then removed the code and all the coins from the existing host without prior agreement to do so.

I refute any claim I tried to "steal" anything. I paid all the hosting and bought the domain name. I dont care about the code and wouldnt trust it in future anyway I just want the coins returned.

They took over 400 bitcoins and are refusing to return them. Is that difficult to understand?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Like I said, I wasn't accusing you, but I had a vague recollection about it, and when I saw this it immediately crossed my mind that it may had something to do with it.

Hold up...

You only bought the domain and VPS?  Why the hell do you think you are entitled to their wallet at well?  Even if you bought the whole service, you aren't entitled to back profits.  

The way you are explaining it, it doesn't even sound like they are obligated to give you the codebase.

Are you associated with CryptoXChange?  Threatening to bring the police into this is a bold statement, and I do not take it lightly.

I can not comment on your title of theft as I do not have enough information (like from the other parties involved) but the title where you call them witcoins makes little sense to people not familiar with your site.

Simply put it is bitcoins you are referring to, not witcoins and you might want to change the title to make that clear.

Yes its all related. Its really nothing to do with crypto or the code though. The offer was to set it up so people could initially get coins back then build a better witcoin. Mizery can keep his code and open source it.

Changed it thanks.

I dont want the coins I want them to give them back to the users. I dont want the wallet or the codebase and btw what have you got to do with any of this ????

Either give the coins back or dont its that simple. Im sure people who have missing coins will be posting here shortly.

Cryptoxchange is not important in this discussion of where those coins are.

I nly go to the police when there are actual victims. Either make good peoples loss or dont and suffer the consequences.

If you want the coins returned to users, why should you be the custodian of them?  Do you have a valid, active bitcoin address for each of these users?  Why should unclaimed coins be placed in your possession?

This thread stinks.  It looks to me like you are trying to extort Internsango for more than $2000 or else you will report them to the police, and you are associated with their competitor, CryptoXChange.  Extortion is a serious crime.

What is your level of involvement with CryptoXChange?

It looks like you are trying to smear their brand to improve the standing of your own.

Tell me how I have this wrong.

Did I say I want those coins ? How would I even know who they belonged too? Frankly your post is ridiculous and fails to understand the issue of WHERE THE HELL ARE THE COINS ?

The coins need to be moved to an address and reported so we know they still exist. All else is piss and wind as far as Im concerned. I dont want anything nor have I demanded anything from Intersango apart from proof they still have the coins.

Just to provide some background to this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.msg599183#msg599183

Re-reading that thread I see you were already accusing him of taking these(or other?) bitcoins on Nov 9 2011.

Its easy thing to prove you own the coins imo. I also contacted Genjix weeks ago and told him to sort this out or I would post on the forum publically. Id also like them to transfer 400btc to a trusted third party like Gavin or Jgarzik as a bond untill this is dealt with.

Because, you know , they should still have the coins right ?

I guess they should still have the coins, yes.
Just one thing I don't understand: You said
right?
Why haven't they complained already? I mean, Since Nov 9 2011 to this day almost 4 months passed.

They have on irc to me and there was lot of users with small balances . Theres a reddit thread where people have ststed coins are missing.

QFT

This is how I see it;

1.  Whoever is the administrator of Witcoin must also provide a reliable way for any user that is registered to withdraw their witcoin's as bitcoin. (no matter what state the website is in).

2.  CryptoCoinMedia (the owner of the domain, and original payee of the hosting), is doing the community service of making sure that the bitcoins are indeed still under the control of Bitcoincconsultancy (or who ever was the last administrator), (shown by a pre-stated transfer to an address that has a public signature attracted to it).

CryptoCoinMedia isn't requesting that he gains control of the bitcoins; rather Bitcoincconsultancy (or who ever was the last administrator) proves that they are still in control of these coins, and makes them available for people to withdraw.


Cam.


Edit: Spelling

Edit: whoever the owner is...

There needs to be 3 things happen. A list of users, a list of how many coins they get, and a trusted third party to distribute them. Everything else is beside the point.

Just quit it. And dont pm me with allegations about cryptoxchange because you will also be reported if it happens again. Myself and others have provided the solution and now its up to bitcoinconsultancy to act.

I just created a new thread about this:

CryptoXChange Associate's attempt to Slander and Extort Intersango
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66602.0

lol nice wall of text. Doesnt address the initial request for the users to get their coins back though.

ps. updated my post, so state that whoever was the last administrator of Witcoin should be responsible for the fact that the coins are not available to the registered users.

Yes, I did address how witcoin users should get their coins back.

Good idea. witcoin was actually a collaboration of people who I wont bring into the debacle because they never has access to the server either..in some ways msery was the sys admin.

If there ever was a contract between the administrators it was broken by a refusal to keep the site running and give users full control of their accounts.

Witcoin is listed on the bitcoinconsultancy site and theres a gitorious hub belonging to genjix. It says they are the current administrators doesnt it ?

Yes, mizerydearia should set up some process for allowing users to get their BTC back (I have ~10 BTC tied up there). But I'm sure that mizerydearia has no intention of stealing the BTC, and Bitcoin Consultancy isn't involved at all. This hostility isn't necessary.

He is listed as part of bitcoinconsultancy on their website by his real name an witcoin is listed as being managed by them.
 That means yes they are involved and if nothing else its a conspiracy involving anyone listed on their site as members.

The section where witcoin is listed on bitcoinconsultancy.com:

You have a valid point: bitcoinconsultancy should clarify their involvement with witcoin.  If (though there is no evidence of it yet) they are in fact in possession of witcoin deposits, you are right to put them on notice.  At this point I still see it as a premature attack.

This has been ongoing for the past 12 months and mizery himself hasnt clarified how anyone will get their accounts back and refuses to because - quote "I am lazy and couldnt be bothered"

Hi world.  This was brought to my attention, and I shall provide some infos/response.


My latest push to the private git repository for witcoin was June 3rd, 2011.  However, ever since February of 2011, my performance, enthusiasm and excitement towards witcoin has declined relative to my suffering from health issues (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55565.msg767055#msg767055).  Since the end of October (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.msg599183#msg599183) there has been a controversy that erupted between noagendamarket and myself.  You may read that thread to learn more about the history.  And still, to this day, I haven't progressed with anything relative to witcoin development, management, maintenance, updates, restoration or providing an ability for users to recover their bitcoins, therefore this thread seems relative to the effort for me to overcome my inactivity, and again, well, I cannot keep using my health as an excuse... I am still alive after all, and I still have limbs for which I can type.


This statement seems inaccurate or false.  There is no way anyone in affiliation with Bitcoin Consultancy (http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/) besides myself could have any involvement to hinder the progress of witcoin.  While there have been efforts and interest especially by genjix to promote, encourage and contribute towards witcoin, still, everything was and still is entirely in my control and access and thus is my responsibility and also relative to the original sentence of the original post, entirely my fault and nobody else's.  The consideration of they or anyone else has offered or contributed to 'help' may seem considerate of them, but in no way are any individuals besides myself responsible or accountable for anything relating to witcoin.  Still, entirely everything is between noagendamarket and myself, in which even as we both self-established each other as co-owners, still only I have access to everything, and noone else.  So, the only accountability, responsibility for resolving anything relative to witcoin is entirely at my own efforts and accomplishments.


This is inaccurate.  The codebase and wallet were never removed from the vps used for the site.  If you review this witcoin thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.msg599183#msg599183), you will learn that as of the controversy at end of October 2011 that erupted relative to noagendamarket's latest plea that he could no longer afford the hosting expenses and the collaboration between noagendamarket and myself, there was a growing conflict that led us apart: noagendamarket established an active affiliation with Cryptoxchange that participated in an attempt to establish control over witcoin, especially relative to my inactivity relative to my decline in health and procrastination.  I, in affiliation with others who were generous enough to offer helping with cost of hosting, eventually accepted amiller's offer, in which other than his friendliness, there wasn't any affiliation similar to that of noagendamarket + Cryptoxchange.  And even my affiliation with Bitcoin Consultancy, which amiller is not involved with, was unrelated to that of witcoin even though genjix effortfully provided reference to it on the bitcoinconsultancy.com website, which I mentioned to him a few times concernedly indicating it seemed strange, but he decided to preserve it, and in essence, it is perhaps that that causes influence that Bitcoin Consultancy is affiliated with witcoin or that witcoin is affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy.  But, that is not accurate.  Still, there is no affiliation or correlation other than that I, as a human, have affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy, but I have not included or incorporated my developments or efforts of witcoin into Bitcoin Consultancy.

Getting back on topic, amiller helped to pay for the linode vps for a few months after noagendamarket expressed his ceasing payments around approximately October 28th.  Since them, amiller has paid linode.com for the vps.  And during that time, still I haven't progressed with the project/website.  After three months of paying, I did proceed in making backups of the data on the vps before mentioning to amiller that he was welcome to stop paying for the vps account, because, it wasn't his responsibility to keep doing so as he was merely offering a friendly gesture to help.  And since still I had been unaccomplishing, it seemed a waste of resources, in which I am appreciative for his helpfulness, but embarrassed and apologetic for the lack of usefulness that I pursued during those months that he helped.  I still have the backups of the site data and the bitcoin wallet and the affiliated bitcoins, all postgresql data, and everything necessary to prepare for a recovery or to handle resolving the issue that is still existing.  And still I would like to resolve this conflict as well as proceed with things, however, it is difficult for me because of my health issue (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55565.msg767055#msg767055).  And, even as I reference it again, I also recognize the idea of which referring to it seems quite ample of an opportunity to pursue malicious, scandalous, or otherwise devious, evil, or other corrupt efforts and activities, but I assure everyone again that that is not my intention.  However, I do encourage everyone to keep such ideas in consideration and to not allow overlooking it, because it is important to preserve an open and honest comprehension of important matters like this.  And especially, if I do lie, cheat, steal, or otherwise pursue fraudulent activities, I highly encourage taking necessary action to remedy such abuses.  Anyhow, proceeding with next....


I also apologize, especially so much for the length of which still I haven't resolved any issues relative to witcoin and for which I am solely responsible.  However, eventually I will do so.  And especially in the case that this issue becomes one that involves legal system, perhaps that is useful as yet another inspirational or motivational factor to somehow overcome my interruptive health issue and stop being so lazy and procrastinative as well.  Like, right now, I am typing all of this instead of effortfully working on something relative to witcoin to allow users to recover their funds or to restore the site or something similar.  So, ... I must do that and soon.


I noticed this a few weeks ago I think when chmod755 pointed it out.  It was quite surprising, because chmod755 pointed out that 'I' released the source code there.   But, I never did push the source code to a public repository.  I later realized that genjix took it upon himself to do that.  And, relative to my 'promise' that I mentioned last year, 2011, to release code before the end of the year, I did that, albeit very poorly, right here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.msg668814#msg668814).  And even many months before then, I had already set up gitorious.org/witcoin/witcoin on May 12th, 2011.  And still that repository is empty because I haven't yet prepared the code base to be useful for others to use.  It is something I must do, but even as I haven't done it by the end of the year last year, still I did release a 'zip' (ewww) archive of the code as mentioned in the witcoin thread. linked just earlier in this reply.


See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.0;all


mm, I'm not sure how to accurately elaborate on this in an accurate sense.  I am not sure on the idea of my being 'hired.'  I don't consider that I was hired.  I did participate in an opportunity to participate on open source developments in affiliation with Bitcoin Consultancy in which my travel, shared living expenses and food were paid for, however, even after I returned and especially Donald Norman indicated that he wanted to compensate me for my time, even then I felt as if I had not contributed enough effort to be worthy of any compensation whatsoever.  Even as I was in Warzawa, Poland, I still endured much devastating interruption relative to my health issue and I remember even walking one day with genjix and he was concerned about my lack of productivity or accomplishments.  So, definitely I was not comfortable with accepting any compensation for my time there, in which I barely accomplished anything, well, other than making foods for us, especially phantomcircuit who was especially so very lazy to cook food or even eat, oftentimes forgetting entirely, or too busy or preoccupied to even realize his hunger.  So, I was somewhat useful, but it wasn't enough for me to feel worthy of any compensation.  Especially I was so very amazed and excited that I had an opportunity to travel overseas, my first time outside of united states country, and it was so amazing.  The experience was enough of a compensation for me.

But as I returned, around the beginning of October, and for a month, I then proceeded in returning to my developments of witcoin.  I did not do anythning with witcoin while I was in Warszawa.  I did not want to allow witcoin project to interfere with the developments I was working on in affiliation with Bitcoin Consultancy and especially for it to interrupt or take away my time from such developments affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy.  Besides, I already had enough interruption from my plaguing health issue.  And as I did return, and as the controvery evolved around October 28th, the site had been offline for an extended period since then, but still, until sometime in January, the vps was still running and waiting for me to continue working on it...but I didn't...  =/

noagendamarket did express that he had conflicting ideas on taking witcoin in another direction than what I had in mind, and that was a kind of basis for the controversy that erupted in October 2011.  And especially I was attached to the code that I had written from scratch and wasn't sure how to proceed.  Anyhow, I shalln't elaborate so much about it here as anyone that is interested to understand more from my perspective can read the witcoin thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.msg599183#msg599183).


For the moment still I am the only one with full copy of all necessary data (code, sql data, bitcoins) and am thus responsible for resurrecting, restoring, transferring or otherwise handling anything affiliated with witcoin, therefore, all eyes shall be on me, and for me to take action.


Statements like these seem kind of defamatory or otherwise abusive.  I am a human existence and the sole person reliable for anything related to witcoin.  I have affiliation with others such as Taste of Thai where I was working a couple years ago in Appleton, my ex-stepfather where I am currently staying in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Bitcoin Consultancy, who I had participated with last year in Warszawa, Spencer Daily, who had interviewed me relative to witcoin (http://www.bitcoinbulletin.com/2011/03/29/bowling-for-bitcoins-meet-the-trader-04/) and several others.  However, it seems that there is a concerted effort to specifically target Bitcoin Consultancy (or one of the projects affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy, particularly Intersango, but not also libbitcoin (https://gitorious.org/libbitcoin/libbitcoin), Momento VPS (https://momentovps.com/), bitcoin media (http://bitcoinmedia.com/) or any other projects affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy or projects affiliated with anyone that is affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy.  In essence, it seems strange for one, in this case noagendamarket, to establish a kind of affiliation of Intersango, a bitcoin exchange, to witcoin.  There is no direct correlation or affiliation.  That is all I shall say on this, as I'm sure others may understand.


This is kind of true.  I do accept the comprehension of my laziness and procrastination, but also I am suffering from a health issues (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55565.msg767055#msg767055) which is driving me crazy to this day and this very moment.


Again, this statement seems defamatory as well.  Again, I am the sole person responsible for witcoin and everything related to it.  Bitcoin Consultancy and others affiliated with it, e.g. genjix and phantomcircuit, are not responsible or do not have the access or ability to do anything relative to bitcoin other than help to motivate, inspire, convince or otherwise manipulate me to do something, and this is true for any other human existence in cluding that relative to any legal matters that result relative to my inactivity or progress on doing something.


You may read my feedback on this earlier in this reply in which I mentioned that genjix took it upon his own interest to mention witcoin on the website, but in no way has witcoin been affiliated with Bitcoin Consultancy or even genjix or phantomcircuit.  It is something entirely at my own involvement, and also noagendamarket's in which there is controvery/dispute that must be resolved, and, well, it shall be.  I am merely, for now, clearing up some misconceptions or inaccurate statements that are being repeated in this thread.


Again, the code was never removed from the vps.  Everything existed intact and practically untouched (other than for backups) until January 2012 when I suggested amiller needn't pay any longer at his own expense which he was kind and generous enough to offer.  I still have a backup and still I have the ability and full responsibility to restore everything and resolve this issue.  It is entirely my responsibility and all considerations should focus on me and not anyone else.  There is nothing anyone besides me can do.


Again, Intersango is a bitcoin exchange.  Intersango is not a person.  Intersango is a project produced by Bitcoin Consultancy and particularly phantomcircuit as lead developer and also involving genjix and Incitatus.  None of them, nor the bitcoin exchange Intersango are involved or responsible for anything related to witcoin.  It is not their responsibility and even they do not have the ability to do anything.  Actually, the likely thing they could do is to assume responsibility over my existence and to generously offer compensation to others entirely at their own expense, perhaps similar to how MtGox did so with Bitomat when Bitomat lost all their bitcoins.  Again, I still have all the bitcoins and source code and everything necessary to return them, but it is something that I must take action to do, and until I do, it is my sole responsibility and all effort or consideration should be directedly entirely to myself and noone else, e.g. not phantomcircuit, genjix, Incitatus, spenvo, chmod755, or any other human existence.

Just do it already. Or let someone who can. Im sorry you have personal issues but you need to give people access to their accounts immediately or make all possible attempts to let someone do so. I am sick of copping the heat personally for your lack of accountability to your users.

mizery,

i'm sorry your health is not up to par.  but you said it yourself; during the time it took you to make this post as well as to host that health thread you could've either sent the coins back to their owners or sent them to NAM to refund the owners.

we can't allow btc users to feel cheated anymore.

hope your health returns soon.

Ok, miz, you have the coins and the backup, so either you should send the coins out to everyone yourself, or give the backup to CryptoCoinMedia and he can do it.

I can organise it. Im not touching those coins with a 30 foot barge pole.

Seeing as how you control the domain, when will you have a page online at witcoin.com?  It would be the best place to communicate with past users.  Would you be amiable to putting up a placeholder page with instructions on how to get refunds?

Yep.He gets his code up, disallows deposits, so people can withdraw, then whats not claimed, can go to the bitcoin100.

There is a vps available he has 30-60 days to do this. Thats the best I can offer.

I think we can all agree this is the best course of action.

http://witcoin.com/  its pointing at a tumblr blog so I can update it as needed. People can also post shit there I guess its a free version of the old site.

Wow have things moved a lot in the 24h that I first heard about this.

So firstly I'm speaking on behalf of Intersango, as their community manager.

We do not know exactly what has happened in this circumstance but we want to clarify intersango's position and affiliation with witcoin.

mizerydearia was taken on for a project and during that time he had a semi formal affiliation with us. We included witcoin in our list of services. Members of Intersango had given some support to the development of witcoin at that time. The services we list do not have any bearing on ownership. For instance, GLBSE is listed under services as Amir Taaki was instrumental in it's early development but for a year Intersango have had no affiliation or connection to GLBSE(of course I as nefario do, but I'm not Intersango). We also have never claimed to own witcoin.

For many months now (I believe since September) we have not been working with mizerydearia and we are not involved in any way with anything going on here.

We'll see about getting this sorted out in an amicable manner.

Nefario.

EDIT: Nefario is handling this matter. While our anger is justified it is perhaps not necessary.

witcoin has been down for a while and yesterday I received a 3.50 BTC transaction (http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Jgr7ZC5wreXWCezBXRnDDuBEMaiUkdUsR) from noagendamarket - after telling him about the problem (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/q5wdb/coolest_bitcoin_businesses/c3uzwni).
I've asked dearia several times to refund me, but due to his health issues and trouble contacting noagendamarket (he was unavailable for a while - occupying melbourne) I was unable to get them back.

I want to clarify that...

• I'm sure that dearia didn't spend my coins, but I want to get them back in my wallet
• I also told him, that I'd allow him to use my VPS to refund everyone
• I even offered my entire outstanding witcoin balance to dearia, if he manages to get witcoin up and running again and continues to work on it
• I don't think it has anything to do with Intersango or CryptoXChange as a company
• I think owners of small exchanges should work together instead of participating in flame wars

Nuff said.

@thread TL;DR

Get any mention of witcoin off your site then and instead of hosting furry conventions concentrate on getting peoples accounts back.

Are you serious?

We have been proven to have done nothing wrong.

You have falsely slandered us continuously. This has been proven.

Every slanderous word you have said continues to hurt us and our only association is having HELPED you.

You have offered no apology.

We are an innocent 3rd party who you have carelessly slandered to bring attention to your private matter.

All we have done is months ago given you FREE help with witcoin and in doing so listed it merely as a project we worked on. Before this slander you made no attempt to contact us and you have no reason to think that we are responsible or have any way of getting people's accounts back. We were never in possession of witcoin's bitcoins or anything related.

I am astonished you are responding like this. We have given you FREE help and publicity because we supported your project. You posted a highly slanderous thread against us. It is disparaging and every second this thread lingers it hurts our good name. THESE ARE THINGS PROVEN TO BE FALSE which you have posted without confirming (they have since been proven to be false).

You have lied and when confronted with the truth you have changed the title of this thread. But you have not rectified the situation. However, there has not been an apology and you continue to criticize us and demean us. A 3rd party that has no involvement with this matter.

Please act responsible and do not defer your responsibility. You should be dealing with your problems instead of creating problems for an unrelated 3rd party.

Before posting the slander you made no attempt to contact us. Even users of Intersango who do not understand why their bitcoin cashout isn't showing (they need to download the blockchain) sometimes email the consultancy email address if they do not get an immediate response from support@intersango.com

This is the first time you have asked us to remove witcoin. Next time please ask nicer. When we update the site next we will change this.

We will specifically have our site show that we have done some amount of free work on witcoin and we will specifically mention that we are not the owners if we choose to list our free work.

We are currently working on a new site layout so it should be up in the next week or two.

Ive never been consulted about any actions you have taken in regards to the site. The co founder took decisions without doing so on a regular basis. Ive told nefario why Im acting the way I am so you need to speak to him.

Leaving witcoin without a sys admin was extremely foolish and dangerous on a normal site let alone a bitcoin one. Misery being in poland and not being able to access witcoin because his computer was in the US doesnt strike you as problematic ???

The real person you should be angry at here is miserydearia for being a lazy control freak  fool who turns down any opportunity that may come his way out of some paranoid delusion that hes being "controlled" and that outside forces are conspiring against him. Im afraid he has dumped you in this as much as me by his actions (or lack thereof).

I can count all the times witcoin was sabotaged by misery either through paranoia or insulting people who approached with childish antics. It would have been the first site to have an android app for instance. We could have had massive venture capital invested to hire a team of developers 12 months ago or more before this shit started. I think miserydearia owes the users,myself and intersango an apology and I urge him to fix this mess. Im not angry about it Im  just burnt out and the personal issues this is causing does not make for a happy camper.

Dave.

WHY WOULD I CONTACT A THIRD PARTY ABOUT MY OWN SITE ????????? You say on one hand you dont have anything to do with witcoin then on another I should contact you about support issues for it . You either do control it or you dont you cant have eggs in both baskets. Again I ask you why I would contact your support email address for a witcoin issue ?????


 "Before this slander you made no attempt to contact us" I told Genjix through a forum PM weeks ago that this was goign to happen if they didnt take steps. lets ask theymos about that shall we before claiming I made no attempt or warning this was coming. Yet again why would I have to go through intersango to get issues around witcoin dealt with if you werent representing it ?

So... it is YOUR site...

If that's the way you take care of YOUR site then YOU are the responsible for letting a third party take the bitcoins and keep them...

Do you even stop to think before you write?

This statement is inaccurate as well.  While I was in Warszawa, I had access to all of my accounts including linode vps hosting witcoin as well as my personal computer remotely, which even then, my ex-stepfather charged me us$40/mo to keep it running, but my father generously helped me to pay for it in my absence and in place of us$400/mo rent.

Also, not that it is important, but my alias is mizerydearia, not miserydearia.  


I am not sure what this statement is in reference to.  Perhaps you could elaborate more than providing a count of such occurrences or 'times' and provide an example or one or more of such?


To say that witcoin would have been the first site to have an android app is particularly a statement considering that of an idea, in which ideas are plentiful.  Implementing those ideas into reality, ...  based on the discussions below, it was interesting for me to consider and I had appended it to many notes I had taken for things to accomplish and fix.

Scanning my IRC logs for #witcoin for case-insensitive "android" this is what I see, beginning from March 26th 2011:


So, the idea lingered, and now in this statement of CryptoCoinMedia's above, it seems that the idea is being used as an example of sabotage, perhaps in the form that because the idea was never implemented, that inaction in itself is sabotage.  I guess that makes sense.  Even now, as I am still unemployed and struggling to afford doing so without my father's assistance, I am sabotaging my future.  The idea of which I could have a job and make money is not being practiced or pursued.  Heck, I could own a mansion or castle, as I consider in my fantasies.  It's an idea.  I do not have a castle or mansion yet.  I am sabotaging my future!  Help!


This, that 'we' could have had venture capital, may be true, and even shortly after my interview with Spencer Dailey (http://www.bitcoinbulletin.com/2011/03/29/bowling-for-bitcoins-meet-the-trader-04/) published March 29th, on April 3rd, Current-C (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8178) private messaged me:


and I arranged with him to meet me in #witcoin on Freenode IRC network, which he did also on April 3rd.  As I remember that day, I had hyped I believe in #bitcoin encouraging others to join and perhaps if anyone else were interested to discuss things about investing or donating or whatnot, but even from the discussion that day in #witcoin, nothing resulted from it.  Clearly my personality or technical expertise or other attributes or characteristics were not promising enough to encourage, inspire, motivate or otherwise influence anyone to invest in witcoin, at least not based on my skills at explaining things.  And even then, during that chat, I learned that tcatm managed to get an interview, in what seemed to be a private matter that he did not otherwise divulge further details.  So, since then, that was an example of which I haven't established myself as a prominently successful individual worthy or considerate of funding of investors or venture capital.  And so, with CryptoCoinMedia's concern or interest in seeking massive venture capital, something which I was afraid of also if you read the interview, and especially, I wasn't then and more recognizably now, am not so excited or enthusiastic about greed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLci5DoZqHU).  I think along with the excitement of bitcoin, especially for those that were early investors and participants, there is a sense of greed that is preserved amongst many of us, even I recognized such in myself, including when I invested in Ixcoins.  However, I do not enjoy the evilness that consumes me relative to that of greed.  And in the case of 'we could have massive venture capital' type of statement, it seems one ripe with greed, especially with the continued reference suggesting that 'I think miserydearia owes the users,myself and intersango an apology and I urge him to fix this mess.'  I am a tad bit confused as to how I owe an apology to the people behind Intersango.  From my observations of comments from others, it seemed that others had suggested for CryptoCoinMedia to express an apology towards Intersango for his slanderous statement.  But perhaps maybe it is more considerate of him to delegate that responsibility of apology to me?  I'm not sure, it's just an idea.  Otherwise, other than that, I do not see anything to apologize for towards them.  Regarding an apology towards witcoin users, yes, again, I am rather apologetic and express it repeatedly to those who continue to bring up concern about the website and project seemingly disappearing.  I will continue to apologize as long as still I haven't resolved the issues relative to it and also I will strive to do so as best as I can.  Regarding apologizing to CryptoCoinMedia as per his request.  Even without his request I have apologized to him both publicly and privately on several occasions.  And I do so again here as well, expressing that I am apologetic for my decline in performance and productivity relative to witcoin.  I am sorry that I have allowed my health to be interruptive and deteriorate my productivity to a point where I have become so very inactive and unproductive to handle these concerns that are still awaiting a resolution.  I will again strive to do so to resolve these matters, as I have attempted to do previously, however, I cannot make any guarantees, but I will still strive to do so.  Besides, I have medication from doctors now which may help me, even though they are for depression or mood/mental disorder and I do not feel they are correlated to the sensations which interrupt me from doing anything other than touching myself all over in response to each intense nibble sensation.

https://gitorious.org/health-journal/mizerydearia/blobs/raw/610c841cf1f94540926f79c3e9507283046a28d4/resources/2012.02.23.Milwaukee%20County%20Behavioral%20Health%20Psychiatric%20Crisis%20Walk-In/meds.jpg (https://gitorious.org/health-journal/mizerydearia/trees/master)

The sys admin took them without notification , which was mizerydearia. This is why I am claiming its akin to theft.

It still doesnt answer why i would be contacting  a third party about things. What gives someone the right to access a server and TAKE everything ?  Note: I havent filed a police report about this yet as I hoped to sort out the accounts of the site. Im doing everything possible to avoid that.

I call you miserydearia for a reason. Why did you state to me that you couldnt access the server then?

Im saying this as good advice. Return peoples access to their accounts and I will ignore that you committed a crime and you caused your victims a loss. What gives you the right to hold onto their money ?

Why should I have to beg bitcoinconsultancy for you to fix issues on a site they dont own ? Dont you find that strange at all?

One doesnt blame a rape victim because she was raped do they ? Mizerydearia admits he took the wallet . Should be relatively simple to assume who the victim is here and that there is a loss involved.

I think the part about you contacting Bitcoin Consultancy would be only for them to remove the mention of your site from their site, as far as I understood, and as per your request on this thread.
What they meant was: If having it there bothered you so much why haven't you contacted them? <--- Please correct me if I'm wrong.

This thread is reminding me of the Goat/Bitcoin Magazine thread.


Depends... Did the rape victim contracted with the rapist to have sex with her and changed her mind while doing it?

I do not consider myself a 3rd party.  The specifics of what happened was CryptoCoinMedia expressed he could no longer afford to pay for teh Linode vps.  You can read more details here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2516.msg668814#msg668814), so relative to amiller's generosity for helping to pay for the vps, amiller funded CryptoCoinMedia's linode account with us$20 to cover the next month of hosting the vps.  That was not acceptable to CryptoCoinMedia and still he was intending on cancelling the service and more desiring expected me to move the codebase and website to CryptoXChange's dedicated server.  Again, as you may see in the witcoin thread, I was quite skeptical about it especially relative to how immediate CryptoXchange's Ken Armitt assumed the consideration of which I was interested in doing so.  I wasn't.  I did not live in Australia and have a friendship or any other affiliation with him as CryptoCoinMedia/noagendamarkat did, and so, I pursued a skepticalness.  And instead I learned along with collaborate of amiller's generosity towards helping to fund a few month of witcoin, that I could transfer the vps to amiller's account entirely intact and without modification.  And that is what I did.  For the next three months after October 28th, everything on the vps was intact and untouched, unmanipulated.  However, in perspective of CryptoCoinMedia's view, perhaps it may seem as if the vps was taken from 'him' since it was affiliated with his account, in which under my user account hierarchically structured under or affiliated underneath his own account, I also had administrative access towards the server.  And even though the server was affiliated with his account, everything on that server was entirely from my sys administration in which noagendamarket didn't have expertise or familiarity with linux, programming, developing or otherwise contribute towards witcoin other than by suggestive idea.  And even as I say that, still I do not mean to imply that of a control freak type of consideration on my part.  I still offer consideration towards him in which even without those expertises, still, as we seemingly both agreed, we were co-owners of witcoin.  And glancing at my IRC logs, I see some relevant stuff from #witcoin beginning March of 2011 (http://privatepaste.com/1af6293d3d).

As I first arrived and first attempted to gain access to my home computer, I had difficulty to do so and also much delay trying to contact someone back home to help restore access to my computer.  But once I did so, I was able to retrieve a copy of my encrypted keepassx password database and then gain access to all of my accounts.  It wasn't until then that I was able to do anything.  I do not recall the exact timing of when that happened, but I admit that I wasn't able to access anything immediately upon arrival in Poland.


In the very real case that I have committed a crime, I highly encourage you to consistently preserve your consideration towards handling your responses to such a crime as you would in any other fashion that causes negative impact upon yourself or others.  It is not necessary for you to offer suggestion or consideration for which if I do A then you will not do B.  I accept and encourage you to preserve your efforts towards criminality or legal concerns and to take things seriously, even in the case that they are used against myself or otherwise affect, hurt or interfere with me.  In the case that what I am doing is criminal, illegal or otherwise punishable or fineable, I recognize and understand the necessary implication of such as a means to resolve disputes or issues such as this one, and I understand your concern or consideration for resorting to such measures and therefore, you should allow consideration of them as you wish entirely at your own inspiration, motivation or influence and not on the basis of interests of others including myself.

I have yet to resolve witcoin-related matters, and so, like even over half a year ago, still this is an open issue.


Again, I'm not sure why you bring Bitcoin Consultancy into this issue.  Perhaps you disregarded the reality of which it has been communicated on several occasions that Bitcoin Consultancy are not affiliated.  Intersango is not affiliated with witcoin.  Spencer Dailey of Bitcoin Bulletin is not affiliated with witcoin.  My father is not affiliated with witcoin.  Even if you were to beg and plead with my father to force me to fix issues for witcoin, there really is nothing he can do.  There is nothing Bitcoin Consultancy can do.  There is nothing anyone can do but me.  I am the sole person responsible.  For you, or anyone else, to desperately seek attention from others so as to encourage them to help influence, motivate, inspire or othewise convince me to take action, ... it is not so effective.  And, well, even as I consider for you to direct your such communications solely upon me, and acceptable even in this public platform, which I highly encourage (I'm so very afraid of privatization), even then, it is something that I must take action for, and once again, I shall strive to do so.

I do think it is strange that you offer a repetitive consideration for which you include Bitcoin Consultancy into these affairs even after being advised of the reality of which they are not affiliated, however, I also consider or understand the idea of which, as my mom has portrayed so very many times, that anything and everything is possible including complete incompetency or incomprension or the ability to make rational, logical, or otherwise understandable statements or communications.  And she is my mom, and still living in nearby environment, for which she offers such continued influence over myself, which I seek to avoid and not allow to become something I practice or result in my own affiliations with others.  And perhaps that is why I elaborate so much, perhaps as a kind of derivative of such personalities or behaviorisms.  And well, even these elaborations are annoying and practically useless.  Again, the most important thing is to take action.  It isn't important that I clarify or respond to justify or explain myself, especially so repetitively.  So, I shall stop and be productive towards accomplishing things...relative to witcoin.

Actually, in modern society, this is exactly what happens.  If you're female, raped by a family member, and for years after growing pains, speak about it to your family, it is more likely that you will be punished by your family more than any punishments directed by the person that raped you.  Ideally this is strange or unacceptable, but realistically, it is commonly practiced to this day.

Kind of related (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgs6jc_how-to-free-yourself-from-self-abuse_tech)
Also (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=g-all-c)

I'll repeat what I've said in this thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66602.msg774460#msg774460

mizerydearia, RaggedMonk, enough. This has been drawn out too much to no ones benefit.

CryptoCoinMedia won't be posting anymore on this issue, I'm in personal talks with him regarding it.

mizerydearia, I've pm'd you about moving forward with this, I've not heard back from you yet you've had time for lengthy posts on this and the other thread.
I want a dump of the user records from your DB backup and the wallet backup, from that point on I'll ensure that all the users get their coins back. Email me (doctor.nefario@gmail.com) with how I can get those.

I'll take it forward to resolve this working with both mizerydearia and CryptoCoinMedia.

Nefario.

Misery, Nefario,  BitcoinConsultancy should absolutely NOT take control of these coins.  By doing so puts Bitcoin Consultancy at legal risk, because it could be argued they are taking control of stolen coins.  This is a horrible idea.  BitcoinConsultancy is not involved in this, and they begin involvement now!