Bitcoin Forum

So, browsing through the market, I've came across a few threads that were dedicated to selling illegal licenses (Microsoft in partitular). To verify that they were illegal, I confirmed they did not ship any sort of COA after purchase of key (required for any sort of retail / OEM license). They sold retail only licenses (Windows home premium and home basic do NOT come in any other forms other than retail / oem [they aren't offered via VLK as they are home licenses, not business]).

Therefore, they're selling pirated keys / breaking Microsoft's ToS. According to the ToS / EULA when you use the keys, they aren't actually your keys to use.

I gave him plenty of chances to present his Microsoft Partner ID before I came here to report him, but he failed to do so.

Anyway, the thread in question is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=509600.0

By the way, I'm not writing this thread to get him punished. I'm writing this thread to protect any potential customers from getting scammed. Microsoft will eventually blacklist any sort of pirated keys, and eventually, their activations will say their software is pirated.

1. Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden.
   - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3629.msg51405#msg51405

Edit: Forgot about the MSDN accounts, my bad.

As for the MSDN accounts, rule 3 covers that. More information can be found here:
   - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134779.msg1435482#msg1435482

Ownership of the MSDN accounts cannot be transferred, at all.

Was sure you are talking about that thread when I read the title. I wanted to buy a Windows license from him some time ago, but was in doubt if the keys are pirated or not. Good thing my spider sense tingled :).

I've seen this exact process before. People like you think they can get away with breaking the rules forever. They always come back and bite them in the ass. Obviously, you lack basic understanding of English.

Let use a real world example, okay? You rob a bank of gold. The gold is uniquely identified by serial numbers (like most gold is). The bank doesn't find out. According to you, all your customers are happy. Well duh they're happy, they still think it's 100% legit gold at a huge discount price!

A few months later, the bank finally figured out you stole the gold. The serial numbers are blacklisted. One of your customers finally try to sell their gold (activate the key a second time / call to home, that sort of thing). BAM! They figure out something's wrong. They get in trouble and come straight to you. You have two choices, refund EVERYONE who've you sold the product to, or run for the hills. According to you, you offer a 'double refund' for any key that's bad (2x what they paid). So not only would you have to refund everyone you sold product to, but twice the amount to not have scammed people.

Also, you're saying that you're not selling stolen goods the entire time because you have happy customers. Just because the customers don't know that the product is stolen doesn't mean they're not receiving stolen goods.

Wait, you're not saying that one must purchase goods to see proof they aren't illegal?

Damn! If I knew people would actually trust me, I'd be the perfect coke salesman! "Hey, I have this coke here, totally 100% legit and legal." "Prove it's not illegal." "Nah man, you have to buy it first, then I'll prove it's not illegal."

No matter which way you cut it, pirated licenses are illegal.


I'm not sure that's relevant? The only reason I even bothered to respond to the guy in the first place (saying that's irrelevant) is because he brought it up out of the blue in the first place.

Not to mention, I've YET to have a problem with UpDown. I've used their service in the past without a problem, and so far, there's been no proof / action taken about it being a scam. If it were a scam, I'm fairly sure there'd be some more action taken on the part of the moderators / administrators (as in closing the thread or banning the account). Besides, this post isn't about my signature. Bringing it up means it's off-topic, which could be considered spam, and should be deleted.

Are you seriously trying to sell me a product in meta? Do you not understand you're being reported here for exactly this. If you want someone to pay for evidence that you're not selling illegal goods, you have another thing coming.

So, you're saying you'll provide proof that your products are illegal for anybody but me? Sweet. That'll actually work out perfectly. Please, a mod or admin contact him directly for proof of this. If his proof is 100% legit, post here to let me know. I'll apologize and lock this thread right then and there. Remember, we're looking to verify he's a Microsoft Partner or he gets his keys from a Microsoft Partner. Also, that he legally has the right to sell MSDN accounts (which isn't even possible according the ToS on Microsoft), AND he ships actual COAs of Microsoft keys for Home versions of Windows.
I'm already at the max amount of activity that helps me in any way, shape, or form. I'm a hero member, more activity doesn't really give me any more ranks. It's literally impossible for me to post faster than what my post limitation currently is. I mean, fuck. I've explained my reasoning for everything.

So far, your posts have been mostly repetitions of stuff I've already responded to on your thread, but let me be you for a second.

Form des conditioners I can has commenters as follows: You spamm0rz teh mah therds to raised acitiverity lerverls.

Just have one of his/her "happy customers" ask Microsoft if the licenses are legitimate. Microsoft can easily tell if those licenses are pirated or are NFR. I'm pretty sure that a customer who cares about purchasing legitimate keys would not object to finding out if the key he/she just purchased was indeed legitimate. Name-calling and speculation are really pointless when you can easily contact one of his/her buyers and put the issue to rest once and for all.

Not quite as easy. See, I could sell a MSDN license key. It activates just like a retail / OEM key, however it isn't allowed to be in production / allowed to be used in an out-of-lab setup (not even allowed to use those keys on your desktop). But it follows the same activation process as any other key on the market.

He sells Home Premium keys without a COA which is literally impossible. Home Premium keys can only be obtained via retail / OEM which requires you to have the COA (certificate of authenticity), which he's never given out / shown proof of.

This is basic Microsoft Licensing. Anyone that's a microsoft partner (which you need to be to sell VLK) should know this.


Overall, if I were a business, and say I bought a hundred of his keys, and got audited by the BSA, I'd fail. I'd have to pay the retail price of all the license keys or be sued by Microsoft and not only pay court fees, but also massive fines. There might even be criminal damages in the end of the case.

Edit: Ah! Sorry about that, I didn't see the "ask" microsoft. If they were on the phone, and knew exactly what they were asking, they'd probably actually catch the key isn't legit.

I don't see any reason for you to argue with bluefirecorp over this unless you aren't legit. You should have been able to provide some sort of proof by now.

I also don't see how he would need to pay you to see if you're legit. Unless all you're going to do is sell him a key and go "see? It's legit!"

I'd buy a home premium key if you could prove that you have the COA's for them, and could provide me with it.

EDIT: Windows 7 home premium... ;)

Thanks for stepping up. If he can delivery a COA for a home premium key, let me know! (You shouldn't forget to specify which OS you want as well).

I don't mean to impose on something I know very little about, while it IS illegal to sell these keys do you know how easy it is to get keys and activators online? Fuck you could go to kickass.to or some torrent site right now and activate your Windows version for nothing at all. The fact this guy is selling keys, whether they are legit or not that's all him. If they aren't legit and M$ finds out, someone surely will find a way around it.

Although I did read (I think?) that one of the OS's is going to start throwing in a kill-switch for pirated copies of their OS's in the near future, which is a good idea I guess but I'm sure someone will find a way around that as well.

What was the point of this thread? To tattle? I mean seriously, bitcointalk has literally become a bunch of cynical bastards who either cry scam on people or do shit like this.

Let me ask you this, what looking at this thread, all the threads that cry scam and the likes and others and tell me what would entice anyone to look into getting bitcoin? Seriously?

How is this going to convince anyone to adopt bitcoin?

The point is, if a business were to buy the licenses and got audited, there's a chance a person who was just ignorant would be going to jail. I'm trying to protect that person from ignorance. You don't do any sort of pirated software in a legit business and get away with it.

Honesty will entice people to look at bitcoin. A place filled with honest people and scammers being banned left and right.

I'm so confused. Are you saying that now you won't provide me with evidence unless I throw $300 at you first simply because I bothered to ask for it? Fuck that. Show me proof of COA and I'll buy a key.

And BTW simply selling me a key that activates for now isn't proof of you selling me legitimate keys, they could be stolen via a keylogger or, as I suspect, resold from MSDN/MSDNA accounts.

Even with proof of a COA, remember to contact Microsoft Support and talk to a representative there. Make sure they're able to tell you the key type and where it came from (which partner ID). With Microsoft, reselling product keys makes you a valued-added reseller (which means he's responsible for ANY microsoft questions you may have).

So, I don't get it.  The OP is mad that someone is selling cracked microsoft stuff on the internet...

Jeez, if I wanted cracked microsoft products, I think I'd just crack them myself or download from thepiratebay or something.  Seems to me that people who are paying money for stolen windoze software are crazy.  Every pc I ever bought comes with windoze whether i want it or not.  I always have to delete a copy of windows before i can put a proper os on.  Who would pay for a stolen copy of a product that's so proliferant you can even get a computer without accidentally having a valid copy.

I totally don't get it.

Violates forum rules mate. Can't sell illegal goods on this site. If this were silkroad / another site, sure go for it, I don't care. I just want to see that forum rules are actually rules and the play ground is even and fair.

Now, if we can start selling illegal goods, this could get rather interesting. Being able to purchase weed here would be rather neat! (Obviously, a few of us would need a new account or two, but still!)

I'm confused now as well actually. He/She keeps saying that proof of legitimacy will be provided to "others" for free if they ask for it, but not to anyone who asks for it.

I say just direct a Microsoft representative to his/her thread. Microsoft, the BBB and the seller's government can sort out the whole issue of legitimacy themselves.

That's kinda the problem though. They won't go for just the seller's thread. They'll go for the ENTIRE forum. And legally, they have the right to go for the entire forum. If I were selling weed on a website, the US government could take down the site rather easily. I mean, just look at megaupload.com and the whole kim dotcom thing!

Are you admitting to spamming to raise activity there? That actually seems exactly what you're doing.


If not, you're accusing everyone else in this thread who posted as a spammer who's only trying to raise their activity? Wow, just wow at that thought.

Any moderator comments or are we just waiting for a verification?

What does he mean when he says he's waiting for spammers to raise activity?  It seems like some sort of absurdist poetry.

He's saying that every time I post, I'm only posting to raise my activity (which is silly, considering I'm a hero member with plenty of posts).

He's not very bright. >.>

He'll probably post the exact same thing tomorrow and quote this. Literally exact same thing.

Floord-1 speaks in Haiku I guess  ::)

bluefirecorp:

This is very likely to be illegal , almost definitely , but admins will not demand proof of legitimacy or ban him unless there is no possible scenario where his goods are legitimate.

This makes sense too , and user privacy is never breached until completely necessary.

I would suggest you leave our poetic friend some negative rep if you believe his actions are illegitimate. Don't expect any official action.

I already said there's no possible scenario in which selling MSDN accounts is legal. I mean, unless he's Microsoft... but following that logic, I could sell hacked Paypal accounts and claim that I'm Paypal just selling old accounts or something.

Reading your posts is a little like watching one of those movies by Salvadore Dali and Luis Bunjol.  You know it probably means something, but it's not exactly clear...

MSDN accounts are for developers to test their products on Microsoft platforms. The keys should not be sold and used in an operational environment, not even for web surfing and checking email (specified in the agreement). There is no way what Floord is doing is legal, and keys provided by him could be invalidated by Microsoft anytime.

I have read your post.

I was defending you , saying that you cannot be forced into giving out any information.
Read my post before assuming that I was siding with the OP.

I've done some searching :-

You are allowed to transfer or sell your MSDN account under the condition that you no longer use your account.
There is a fair chance that the keys provided by Floord are pirated , but this is not enough to ban him or make him shut his shop down.

I didn't even know that microsoft is not selling Keys for home use, well, now i know. So if someone want's to sell me some microsoft software, what do i have to check to make sure it's ''legal'' and ok?

Do you have a certificate of authenticity? Or did you buy your laptop from an OEM provider. OEM providers sometimes embed the license key into the computer's BIOS. You should have the restore CDs which say that on a laptop.

If you have a desktop and no certificate of authenticity, even if your license activates and seems okay, it's still considered invalid.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/antipiracy/Pages/COA_hologram.aspx#fbid=zipZ8l7kzZS

Most of those feedbacks are from newbies, so they're not quite the most reliable. One is actually from an account with just one post.. the post that gives him feedback.
I don't have nothing with the guy, or his broken english. Even if I doubt it, would like to know it there is a chance that the keys he's selling are legit.

The thing that they aren't blacklisted doesn't mean they are already used or are in usage. There is no way you could get so cheap not pirated and legit licences not to mention that it usually comes with the sticker from Microsoft.

Of course, just because a key is working now, it doesn't mean it is legit. That's why I'm curious as to how we can figure this out.

This thread is like a disco jam on repeat:

Spammers to raise Activity

Boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick

Spammers to raise Activity

Boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick

Spammers to raise Activity

Boom-chick-boom-chick

Spammers to raise
Boom-chick-boom-chick

Spammers to raise
Boom-chick-boom-chick

Spammers to raise
Boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick-boom-chick
Spammers to raise Activity

Seriously, if you can't communicate in finite sentences, it starts to sound like nonsense-land real fast.  I'd save your accusations for your native language.  This is embarrassing.

The following quote is taken directly from Microsoft's website:


The actual page is here. (http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/howtotell/Software.aspx)

When in doubt, you can always contact a Microsoft representative and ask them directly.

Made me LOL and I was singing that in a rave-style in my head.  :D




For real people I thought we were Libertarians here? If people want cheap/free/stolen software bad enough, they will find a way to get it anyways. No reason to specifically stomp on this dude. Free market, free economy.

I think the point of contention is not the fact that he/she might be illegally selling keys, but that he/she might be doing that and yet is telling his/her buyers that that isn't the case. Even in a capitalist market, scams and fraudulent businesses are not and should not be tolerated.

This is the last sentence I wrote in here...A stupid topics:

1. First, My English language is not good ... Everyone can sympathize with me this.

2. This is the key legal.

3. Keys working 100% and genuine....Are not blacklisted and warranty full time.

4. The best way is you take a look at the feedback from the customer and my partners -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=509600.0

-> http://www.usc.edu/~douglast/202/lecture23/manifesto.html (Have you read it yet)

Mfg Floord

Except that no1 of the users that gave you that feedback are in default trust list and they neither have positive trust or any history on these forums. I've personally never seen them posting.

This.

Floord-1 hasn't specified anything about any CoA's. So, do you offer a CoA(Certificate of Authenticity) along with the keys? Apparently it is the only way to sell a legit key.

Can you please reformulate this? It's pretty hard to understand.

I believe he want you to buy a key from him, and then check it with Microsoft directly.

He just doesn't have any certificate as it's not possible that microsoft would choose anyone as their key reseller and neither they would sell only keys in bulk.

I believe so, but I was just trying to help "decode" Floord's message. :)

我們可以與您肯定同情你的英語不是這麼好。但我們所有的同情並不能真正幫助我們理解你想說什麼。請你幫個忙，找朋友誰分享你的母語，請他們來幫助你製作你的反應。它似乎很清楚，我認為你是對的統計機器翻譯依靠100％，它的下降短。特別是如果你想爭辯或拋出的指責，那麼你要貴點的精妙之處碰到。如往年一樣，這是八九不離十像你鍵入單詞沙拉，這是一個羅夏測試來猜測你的意圖的語法/語義。為了方便說明，我想像著我的一段，是絕對荒謬的是由谷歌渲染成“傳統的中國人”。


Reverse translated:

We can certainly sympathize with you your English is not so good. But all our sympathy does not really help us understand what you mean. Do yourself a favor, find friends who share your native language, ask them to help you make your reaction. It seems clear, I think you are right to rely on statistical machine translation to 100%, it fell short. Especially if you want to argue or throw accusations, then you want your point of subtlety encounter. As in previous years, this is sorta like you type the word salad, which is a Rorschach test to guess your intentions syntax / semantics. For convenience of explanation, I imagine my period, it is absolutely absurd rendered by Google as "traditional Chinese people."


Original paragraph:
We can certainly sympathize with you about your English not being so good.  But all our sympathy doesn't really help us understand what you're trying to say.  Do yourself a favor, find a friend who shares your native language and ask them to help you craft your responses.  It's seems clear to me that you're relying 100% on statistical machine translation and it's falling short.  Especially if you want to argue or throw accusations, then you want the subtlety of your point to come across.  As things stand, it's sorta like you're typing in word salad and it's a rorshach test to guess your intended syntax/semantics.  Just for illustration, I'm imagining that my paragraph is absolute nonsense as rendered into "traditional chinese" by Google.


Edit:

Actualy the round trip to Chinese and back in Google isn't so bad.  But this is obviously very language dependent.  For example, I took the same paragraph to tamil and back and now it's starting to sound like prose by Floord-1


We will be sure your English is not so good, you can sympathize with. But our sympathy really help us understand what you're trying to say and what not. , Do yourself a favor and share in your own language, ask a friend to help you craft your answers. Statistical machine translation is 100% dependent on you for it and it seems clear to me that the short fall. You have to throw the charges or argue, in particular, should you come across subtle point. MP If you type the word salad, and it's your purpose syntax / semantics guess Rorshach appears in the film as a test, it's waiting. Just the description, I have to Google "traditional Chinese" will be a complete nonsense to imagine that my column.

No i didn't see it and no i'm not ready to spend ANY money on you just to get a proof. Lol what method is it that you have to pay first in order to see your keys aren't stolen/illegal.

@tspacepilot, I had a good laugh reading your replies in this thread, thank you.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Floord-1 isn't the only one selling Microsoft keys on these forums. Non of them are legit?

There might be one or two legit sellers. Pretty much if the average price per key is under $80, something isn't legit.