Bitcoin Forum

....Next is mentioned at the end of the article ...From the Blog;


Why Proof of Scam (Po$) is a real socioeconomic dynamic  - its not a joke.

http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/on-po-proof-of-scam-defining-the-rational-crypto-currency-exclusive-socioeconomic-dynamic/


-----------------------UPDATE --------------------------
A word on Proof of Scam

Po$  ( Proof of Scam)  not to be confused with PoS (Proof of Stake) is a real thing, people like to joke but i'd like to explain why Proof of Scam is an actual socioeconomic dynamic;

Proof of Scam (Po$) can be broadly defined as anything outside the Random Proof of work distribution, to a degree that it is nearly in the centralized fiat groups of monetary systems, a key element is if as a replacement to the Random Proof of Work distribution you have instead , the "trust us" principal.

There can be other examples, and many may argue back and forth, for example if the PoW period is gregariously flawed a system may be contested to be Proof of Scam or a Proof of Scam allegation could be leveled.

Proof of Scam is a uniquely Crypto currency dynamic, it can not be used for fiat applications because fiat is not a "trust-less system".

so to make that clear and if you would like to visualize it; fiat centralized paper Debt issued money is in a  bubble of its own that can never be governed by a Random Proof of work system, or any other "trustless" system.

"Cryptocurrency" is then in its own group which can be split up then into all its other groups -

The (Proof of Scam) Po$ group

The Proof of Scam group can be generally defined as a group in which the "random proof of work" and thus the "trustless system" is so flawed, that it almost represents a centralized fiat system.

there are many examples = but the key points to take away are that if the PoW is flawed in a manner of distribution as to rely on the  "Trust us" " "its ok" system. the "crypto" can generally be confirmed to be Po$ or Proof of Scam.

-----------------------UPDATE --------------------------

A word on “Proof of Work”

Crypto currency is based on “Proof of Work” this means that crypto is a “trust-less” system where people don’t have to try to trust other people to “IPO” (or distribute) the currency, that’s the whole point of Crypto currency.

Nxt is “technically” still a crypto currency as it still does have a block-chain (some don’t even have this), however the (PoW) proof of work period was done all at once and to themselves the developers.

by doing this they then shifted the “trust” from a mechanical system (the point of Crypto currency) to a “Trust us we promise to only give it to charity” type system.

So it only takes a small amount of education to see which system is:

    -- “Potentially Flawed” and/or
    -- “Totally flawed”

All PoW has the chance to be “potentially flawed” and most are, this is what allows 100′s even thousands of crypto currencies to exist, the better the PoW (distribution) period generally the better the overall fundamentals.

however a PoW that is “Totally flawed” i.e there was no market participation, such as “Nxt” ( they probably generated the whole 1 Billion in a single super block on a laptop), that is a system that can’t be recovered from, it can be seen as a “Quasi Crypto currency” and is nearly 100% of the time by definition, a Scam.

The better it looks and more effort put in to the appearance,(and more gimmicks) the more likely in % terms that its is in fact a design to take your (or other marks) wealth.


------------UPDATE -------------------------------------


 ** A Word on IPO’s

Ive noticed the fad and trend of late to issue “crypto IPO’s” sadly a crypto currency can never really be IPO’d i use the term here above in this article for explanation and to simplify the writing, Quark was issued by 1000′s of computer users over a 6 months period in full free market fashion, then at its lowest point I essentially introduced it to a larger market.

An actual crypto IPO is sadly just little more than a “gypsy scam” because of the  pseudo Anonymous nature of crypto, let me explain how the scam or “trick” works:

   -- The crypto is fully mined by the “developers” so that is to say it is completely mined and distributed to the developers, i.e they own the total of the units.
   -- They then offer it for “sale” as an IPO say for example at a certain rate per another crypto usually Bitcoin.

Example :

We are selling “XXX” Crytpo for 1 BTC per  10,000  please send the BTC to these following  address listed “xxxxxxxxxxx” etc.

 

    -- They list addresses to send the Bitcoin, so as to receive the IPO crypto.

Then wait for it…

   -- They send Bitcoin to themselves and issue the Crypto IPO to themselves.

So the Developers own the Addresses they list but they also send the BTC from another address they also own, (but the public obviously doesn’t know they own it)

    -- This can be done because no one can know who is issuing what where so to make that clear – the Bitcoin addresses can be visible and will show that Bitcoin was sent to “buy” the IPO.
    -- But actually all that happened was the “Developers” (scammers) sent Bitcoin to themselves.
    -- They then issued the IPO Crypto out to themselves – which is simple because they just fully mined it for themselves anyhow..
    -- Now they can trade it back and forth on an exchange to create “fake volume” and “buzz”, they can use trading robots to do this or do it day to day themselves.
    -- Some Scammers have even created their own exchange to trade with themselves so as to avoid the cost of trading fees, this means they can essentially trade with themselves for free  and also “bid” up the price which also increases the appearance of the market cap.

Whats the aim?

    -- To get real buyers to come into the market so they can sell and make wealth.
    -- The high market cap and the fake trade volume can cause a “buzz” and make naive people feel like its the “next” big thing.
    -- This is also similar to how very fast mining (7 day mining) cryptos work with “Proof of Stake”, but i might cover that at a later stage.

 
Is Nxt a Crypto IPO scam?  lets look and learn;

 

I didn’t want to single any particular “Crypto scam” (as there are so many) out, but a great example of this Gypsy trick is  “Nxt” or “Next” let me show you the details:

 

here is the official NXT Website:

    http://www.nxt.org/ (http://www.nxt.org/)

Very impressive isn’t it?  “get on board the shuttle is leaving !”

and then lets look at the Market cap? :

    https://coinmarketcap.com/views/market-cap-by-total-supply/ (https://coinmarketcap.com/views/market-cap-by-total-supply/)

A whopping “5th” you will surely be “Rich” if you buy NXT right?

however we have to go to the Wiki and then select “History” then go down to “November 24, 2013″ to see that :

“Nxt is created, and the genesis block reveals that 1,000,000,000 coins were distributed to 73 stakeholders, with the proportion of coins received dependent upon the each stakeholder’s portion of the original funcraising total. Nxt’s original market capitalization was $800,000USD.”

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_History (http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_History)

Summary:

    1 Billion with a B, “Nxt” units were issued to 73 , yes 73 “Shareholders”  and they even made their own exchange https://dgex.com/ (https://dgex.com/) to conveniently trade it back and forth so as to not even have to pay pesky trading fees.
    Of course even the “73″ shareholders figure is probably a fake number because all this means is that the “developers” (our gypsy friends)  made 73 new addresses to send BTC to themselves, they then issued “NXT” to themselves built a nice looking web page and the rest is history.

here is where the 1 Billion NXT units were created in less than one second.

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=1000&blk=2680262203532249785
    
BLOCK    :   2680262203532249785
Timestamp   :   24.11.2013 13:00:00
Height   :   0
Next Block   :   6556228577102711328
Previous Block   :   0
Pay Load Length   :   9344 B
Num. Transactions   :   73
Total Fee   :   0
Base Target   :   100.00 %
Total Amount   :   1,000,000,000 NXT
Generator Account   :   1739068987193023818
Generator RS    :   NXT-MRCC-2YLS-8M54-3CMAJ
Version   :   -1
Perma Link   :   Show
Block SIgnature : 69d426c498b70ac6d1678180356527c1fee030ad732fbf7672c2266d166a4c08cf8fdeb4524fd1b 496bbcaab03fa6e67760f6da452251402249015486c487211
Generation Signature : 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Previous Block Hash : n/a
Payload Hash : 72c8a92efffbd8695a866eabb13ca460a2f7cdf3283b82efb163360d6eec9469

any questions?

**

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Haters+Gonna+Hate_e70386_4114055.gif

great image posted buy a NXT sock puppet - sums up much, i'm not hating, i'm appreciating the effort that went into your scam, call it "wonder and appreciation"

i am one of this 73 "shareholders" and i am NOT a developer of NXT. even dont know any of them but i grabbed my balls and invested some money into a project which also could have been a flop. but its top now and therefore i got my reward. whats the problem about that? could have lost it all..

congratulations.

i bet some people made profit off the S&P500 this year as well, I guess if you time a scam right its good for temporary profit, is that the lesson?

Let me just say that I'm 1 of the developers, and nope, I don't even have a stake! I'm no whale. You could check my post history and see that I only come in the picture after Nxt was launched, I missed the initial distribution like so many here. So no, developers do not hold multiple stakes!

Nice amount of time wasted here buddy!

Let's go back to Quarkcoin! ahhhh...sorry, it is death  :'(

this reminds me to update the blog about sock puppets, thanks.

I really don't care what you or anyone else says - the facts are they admit themselves that 1 billion was issued to 73 stakeholders.

this means by mathematics you are a sock-puppet, you are really going to plead the case ?

or more likely, you just didn't actually read the topic...(as most sock puppets don't)

what i do appreciate is the dedication you sock puppets put in, look for example at this account right up there at 150 posts! i'm impressed (and you probably have a full time job at the pizza joint as well), so that's a lot of time you've put in there., to scam people.

ha just think about how many people could read this, educate themselves, and never buy into your scam ha ha .

You mention you didn't want to "single any particular “Crypto scam”" yet you outright accuse nxt based purely on speculation. Provide an analysis of the blockchain supporting your accusations. Until then you're a jealous little bitch who wants nxt to crash so you can buy in.

Care to share the formula you used?

"You're a sock-puppet" is a handy answer for everything!

wesleyh: "1+1=2"
you: "Yeah but you're a sock-puppet, therefore your argument is invalid."

Thanks for the free Nxt advertising!

Actually I have 684posts and the pizzas are delightful!  :-*


http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Haters+Gonna+Hate_e70386_4114055.gif

Edit: Uh! Sry! 685 posts now!  ;D

yeah i make an exception for the "best" scams, thank you for the appreciation.

** the following is not for you

Of course the point of crypto currency is that one doesn't have to "trust" scammers on the internet, that is why Proof of Work exists.

the "trust us we gave it to charities" design, (is of course), just the thing Crypto currency was trying to avoid.

you being a sleazy sock puppet scammer, of course understand this.

but thank you for reminding me , so i can update the blog.

I tried to read the OP but the writing style makes it very hard -- so I stopped.  As soon as I scrolled down to the last sentence I realised the entire post is desperately trying but failing to discredit NXT.  No time for babbling! Off to more Multigateway and Digital Good Store testing :)

P.S. calling NXT a "scam" is truly idiotic.

ahh guys ,

i don't care - you should do like the "Bitcoin guys" do and ignore the post so it sinks, there is no possible way to better you position here.

i don't care about who you scam on this forum per say, I included it into the Blog so as if there was any "real" investors that were thinking about throwing money away into an IPO scam such as NXT then they would have all the information.

I then posted it here so you guys could appreciate my  admiration of your technical "gypsy scam" prowess.  

i like it, shows innovation.

such hate, much butthurt :D

The term 'scam' implies that bad people steal other peoples money and deceive them. Is that given in Nxt? Just because you are not a stakeholder that doesn't mean it's a scam. People really have to learn very simple terms.
You can of course argue that the IPO was not fair. But this has nothing to do with scam. When will people stop being jealous? If I had invested in microsoft or apple when the price was cheap I would be rich now, that's for sure. Thus they are scammers or what, because I'm too late? :D

ha ha great post you have convinced me, i take it all back, i will promptly delete my blog.

I'm beginning to like you, digitalindustry :-*

You might actually be the one to replace Emule, but I need you to try harder!

No one can replace Emule. Amature trolls like digitalindustry come and go all the time. They haven't got the persistence and stamina to make an impact like Emule did.

Agreed  :'(

Did Emule make any impact? :D

http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1406/a8/227b48ecb34e.gif (http://www.radikal.ru)
The man who released some coins, like Nibble-Nybble :o and others.. :P. Are going to teach us... ???
The world has gone mad. ;D
Do you own best - make copy coins. Don't be a teacher. Loser.
http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1406/a8/227b48ecb34e.gif (http://www.radikal.ru)

dam nice effect.

emule? sound like an awesome sock puppet.

i'm sure many a fresh forum log-in quiet in the awe of his sock presence.

Do you write in this forum using google translate? It is horrible to read with all those typos and grammar errors...

Secondly, OH MY GOSH, I have seldom read so much bullshit in one single opening post. Do you know the concept of providing facts for an accusation? Everyone who did his due diligence before investing knows about the "poor" distribution, still they decide to invest...

Something seems faulty with your logic, right?

I know multiple real life people who own significant amounts of NXT and they don't manipulate the market nor do they care about shit-posting like you. And if they are sockpuppets, then maybe GOD himself is the puppetier, because I saw no strings when I met them...

This is why you should be ignored.

Is this a poorly attempt to advertize some blog?  ::)

do you genuinely think I care if you read my blog or not ?

its there to help real people educate themselves, from sock puppet scams like yours ha ha.

Don't get me wrong, you should feel proud i don't pick obvious or boring scams, I will literally only even mention a scam if its:

1. Genuinely inventive .

2. Slick and good looking.

3. Has the chance to sucker a fair amount of normally educated people.

so you guys should be sitting back "Shroom" style and feeling good.


* Zen message

don't hate the messenger of the scam, instead see the beauty of the scam, become at one with your scam.

The facepalm is strong with this one......

DI: have u actually looked at any source of information on NXT ?
https://nxtforum.org/index.php

Try looking at the projects page, for example, you'll see that a lot of people have gone to a lot of work to set up a wide variety of NXT-based projects, from a MMORPG to Silver dealing, Gambling sites to music industry......and you're trying to say that all of this economic activity is a front for a scam ?

Either you're trolling, or seriously uninformed.
And NXT is at #3 on CMC. btw, not #5. Using "total supply" you end up with Ripple and Solarcoin  at #2 and #3 respectively, with Litecoin and NXt at #4 and #5
This is how CMC looks on the basis of "available supply":
https://coinmarketcap.com/

Gets rid of Solarcoin anyhow.....

Lets face it, guys, we've been listening to the same old bollocks for a long time about NXT. It's about time that the tired old "NXT is a scam" routine got buried, it's just getting laughable now.

 :o BUY BUY BUY!

Well, education is good.  8)
I remember there were half a dozen such "educators" in closed long NXT thread.  :D
One of them was Frictionless...  :P
Where are they now?  ???
Are you going in the same direction? ::)

-----------------------UPDATE --------------------------

Thanks for the contribution on this thread I've added this section at the bottom also,

A word on “Proof of Work”

Crypto currency is based on “Proof of Work” this means that crypto is a “trust-less” system where people don’t have to try to trust other people to “IPO” (or distribute) the currency, that’s the whole point of Crypto currency.

Nxt is “technically” still a crypto currency as it still does have a block-chain (some don’t even have this), however the (PoW) proof of work period was done all at once and to themselves the developers.

by doing this they then shifted the “trust” from a mechanical system (the point of Crypto currency) to a “Trust us we promise to only give it to charity” type system.

So it only takes a small amount of education to see which system is:

    -- “Potentially Flawed” and/or
    -- “Totally flawed”

All PoW has the chance to be “potentially flawed” and most are, this is what allows 100′s even thousands of crypto currencies to exist, the better the PoW (distribution) period generally the better the overall fundamentals.

however a PoW that is “Totally flawed” i.e there was no market participation, such as “Nxt” ( they probably generated the whole 1 Billion in a single super block on a laptop), that is a system that can’t be recovered from, it can be seen as a “Quasi Crypto currency” and is nearly 100% of the time by definition, a Scam.

The better it looks and more effort put in to the appearance,(and more gimmicks) the more likely in % terms that its is in fact a design to take your (or other marks) wealth.

How long was Nxt's PoW phase?     :D :D :D
 

i'm really impressed by the showing in this thread, it shows that either:

1. Scams work (probably self evident really)

or

2. The Nxt devs funded forum accounts with their fake crypto to push the scam.


i'm going to say a mix of both - i can tell which ones a "scamees" and which ones are pushing the scam.

it was a magical time, (not defined by time itself) at the magical "NXT Labs" which is a place unknown to many and shrouded in secrecy, buried deep inside the minds of us all but only seen when we drink magic mushrooms.

: D

You didn't answer my question, I'm interested and you're obviously very knowledgeable about the early days of Nxt  ;D

oh sorry, for those that haven't learned how to read yet i'll be here to link parts of the blog individually ....


-----------


however we have to go to the Wiki and then select “History” then go down to “November 24, 2013″ to see that :

“Nxt is created, and the genesis block reveals that 1,000,000,000 coins were distributed to 73 stakeholders, with the proportion of coins received dependent upon the each stakeholder’s portion of the original funcraising total. Nxt’s original market capitalization was $800,000USD.”

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_History

Thank you. So there was no PoW phase?

here is how to answer that yourself.

does NXT have a block-chain?

1  Yes - then yes there was "proof of Work" at some point.

2. No - then it used the innovative "Proof of unicorn" system.

You're the expert  :D  I imagine so, would I find out if I read your blog?

I am going to guess the PoW stage of Nxt was 8 months. Yes, that's it. The PoW stage was 8 months. You might want to update your blog to reflect this.

ok then this is the "proof of unicorn" system.

over what time period (in human definable time i.e seconds or minutes) were the 1 billion created ?

thats the Proof of Work period.

This is the retardest thing among all the retarded things you have said in the last 24hours.

You should be in a museum or something like that.

Let me help you out here :

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=1000&blk=2680262203532249785 (http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=1000&blk=2680262203532249785)
    
BLOCK    :   2680262203532249785
Timestamp   :   24.11.2013 13:00:00
Height   :   0
Next Block   :   6556228577102711328
Previous Block   :   0
Pay Load Length   :   9344 B
Num. Transactions   :   73
Total Fee   :   0
Base Target   :   100.00 %
Total Amount   :   1,000,000,000 NXT
Generator Account   :   1739068987193023818
Generator RS    :   NXT-MRCC-2YLS-8M54-3CMAJ
Version   :   -1
Perma Link   :   Show
Block SIgnature : 69d426c498b70ac6d1678180356527c1fee030ad732fbf7672c2266d166a4c08cf8fdeb4524fd1b 496bbcaab03fa6e67760f6da452251402249015486c487211
Generation Signature : 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Previous Block Hash : n/a
Payload Hash : 72c8a92efffbd8695a866eabb13ca460a2f7cdf3283b82efb163360d6eec9469




under one second .

and again the winner is Daedelus, thank you friend i will ad that to the blog.

blog updated thanks !

Cool. I will never visit your blog. Sorry  :-*

Oh my God, look who is here to spread the FUD..   Mighty Australian Collin..  ;D

Let me tell you all who this is. Collin is a jealous b****, half literate in English even though this is his first language. He is one of two that started Quark and decided to partner with Bill Still to whom he gave millions of shit coin Quark to promote his coin and to do a pump and dump.
Quark was my entry into crypto currencies in December and I have lost a lot of money on it, this is how I know all about Collin.
Type Bill Still report on Quark in Youtube and you will even see his interview's and his face over Skype in Bill Still show.

So now when his own scam has failed, he has came here accusing NXT loaded with his jealousy.
So guys, please pay no attention to this id***!

Owww....i kinda like winding up the NXT deniers.
At least Collin is slightly smarter than the average Elmo, we should have weeks of fun out of him, if handled correctly.

Hey! Editing your posts after I posted is no fair  :'( I'll have to quote you more if you plan to play to the gallery.

What was the average hash during the mining period? :D

Great pointer that NXT is gaining ground. More and more interest from the outside world = more and more FUD!

millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

nope actually i'm just going to start covering more scams, its a general part of trying to help educate individuals that will be interested in Crypto in the future.

Come on then, Kolin, which other scams?
Not like you dont have a wide range to choose from.....why did your gaze settle on NXT in particular?

Begin with Quark please.

Sure that Nxt is not gaining ground, kolin?

https://i.imgur.com/hH0N3G6.jpg

Oh my God, look who is here to spread the FUD..   Mighty Australian Collin..  ;D

Let me tell you all who this is. Collin is a jealous b****, half literate in English even though this is his first language. He is one of two that started Quark and decided to partner with Bill Still to whom he gave millions of shit coin Quark to promote his coin and to do a pump and dump.
Quark was my entry into crypto currencies in December and I have lost a lot of money on it, this is how I know all about Collin.
Type Bill Still report on Quark in Youtube and you will even see his interview's and his face over Skype in Bill Still show.

So now when his own scam has failed, he has came here accusing NXT loaded with his jealousy.
So guys, please pay no attention to this id***!

Kollins version of CMC is sorted on total supply, so he believes that the top 5 cryptos are Bitcoin, Ripple, SolarCoin, Litecoin, NXT.....check out the 2 versions here:

Total supply:
https://coinmarketcap.com/views/market-cap-by-total-supply/

Available supply (slightly more realistic!):
https://coinmarketcap.com/

Maybe the OP is a big fan of SolarCoin?

there are so many - The IPO scam is so blatant that i thought i'd cover it first.

feel free to point me towards anyone that you think is a good one, the "Neutrino" one i thought showed particular, whats the word... "bravery" as they posted their friendly pictures and stuff.

i'm inclined to not call it a "scam" as such and just tell people "it was a humorous experiment"..

maybe the idea being to get into the market cap list without the filters, their theory being that some fools will buy it just based on this ?

oh, you poor thing, I randomly selected a filter - i don't even know what "SolarCoin" is, please tell me.

i'd be happy to update to your suggestion, thanks for the feedback.

Why do FUDsters always ignore me?  :'( :'( :'( Elmo did, BrianNowhere did it, Bluemeanie did it...

I confess, the mining period wasn't really 8 months. I just said that to try and look big in front of Colin, I admit it. But Colin knows how long the mining period of Nxt was and could deduce the average hash (he's super smart!) but he doesn't want to for some reason.

also just so we are on the same page wasn't "NXT" the first out of the blocks with this type of particular scam ?

if i'm incorrect, please point me in the right direction, and i will update the blog and give the lucky scammer the correct honor of being the first.

I want to be accurate historically also, but as far as i was aware NXT was the first of this type of particular scam.

Proof?

Tell me again how Nxt was PoW to enable a premine?  :D

And have you seen Nxt Multigateway? Almost trustless crypto to crypto trading and it is here now  :D I can send you the link to put in your blog if you like? You can test it yourself (small amounts mind, it is still quite new) Then you'll get the traffic you want for your blog :D :D :D

please you are too kind - feel free to call me an "idiot" not an id*** this is bitcointalk its lucky we are not able to throw feces at each other.

Anyone interested in Nxt had almost 60 days to express an interest in it, all on equal terms and based on the same information. BCNext asked only for a 'few satoshis' as a means of determining the distribution and capped at 1BTC. Only 103 expressed an interest in Nxt and only 73 of those came forward once Nxt was launched to claim their stake. No-one cared about Nxt, even after it was launched  :D but people still blame Nxt for this.

The Genesis block (helpfully posted above) contained those 73 stakes based on the proportion of the coin donated (e.g. 1% of total donation got 1% of Nxt). All Nxt was distributed in the genesis block and marks the start of Nxt so by definition Nxt can't be 'pre' anything.

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 (I'm talking to you too Colin, this is first hand info and is golden :D)

For me you are an id***. You did cost me money and things between me and you are personal. I trusted you, you scammed me, Ilost money and could have given up on all crypto thing because of you. Luckily I gave it another chance with NXT. Imagine how many people just gave up because of people like you. So I am repeating my post again just so people know with who are they dealing with..

try even harder please!

thanks for the publicity!

Please Zorke PROCEED.

This guy is a shame and a scammer.

Fill his thread with the TRUTH of him.

I hope we have all visited Colin's blog? (Nah, me neither  ;D ) But we should! If we gather enough pennies from the clicks then it will go a huge way helping Colin heal his issues and anger toward crypto. We all have a part to play in this.


If I haven't convinced you, consider going here instead for instructions on how to almost trustlessly trade Nxt for BTC or LTC without ever having to use an exchange again  :D (avoid the next MtGox anyone?  ;D)


https://nxtforum.org/nxtservices-releases/how-to-test-multigateway-with-nxtservices-a-test-user-guide/?topicseen


We're here to help Colin, just tell us what we can do.

Good News! I just visited your blog. It is very grey, grey is a good colour. I liked it.

Congrats!

People don't realize that Nxt was once exactly like many of the current IPO's being offered now.  You tend to avoid them because you don't know if someone is simply going to run off with your money.  However, they are valuable to the currency creator because BCNext actually decided to quit his job so that he could work on Nxt full time.  He was able to support himself using the money raised by the IPO.

And for most people investing in the IPO was risky enough, let alone double-investing.  It held some potential promise but there was no way of knowing just how successful Nxt would prove to be at the time.

Also, keep in mind that most people(only one of the largest stake holder's believed in Nxt enough to hold onto his full stake) dumped the majority of their Nxt onto the market when their $200 ish initially invested turned into $100,000, yet was still a risky investment.

so i'm half an idiot?  ok

well if you sold at a loss then yes unfortunately you probably lost - same as if you sold at a loss on the many dips in BTC or LTC or any other crypto currency.

but it looks like you have "doubled down" so to speak, especially if you brought into NXT.

that's ok if you can not handle the free market just say so, you would have been better off buying an "annuity" or a "managed fund"  from a broker.

instead you seemed to have doubled down into an IPO scam ?

thats completely and totally your right and i will never say you shouldn't be allowed to do it, on the other side of that in the real free market ( not Wall ST) i can educated people to the scam also. ( see the beauty here? )

I learned the following:

You have blockchain => You are/were PoW.

Whuuut?

Somebody able to explain that, sorry for using that word, BULLSHIT?

Proof?  :D  I like proof, especially when people provide some  ;D

UNLEASH THE TRUTH ZORKE !

** cool tag by the way.

You gotta be kiding me! So you are trying to say that there is still some future in Quark??
Now you are holding all of us here and all crypto world for idiots!  :)

yeah only time will tell i guess.

Also you beloved Quark is on a quite a dip, a six month dip!  :)
Please warn us when it finally starts shooting up so we don't miss an opportunity!  ;D

Did anyone make any money on Quark, except for Colin of course?

I sure didn't! ;D
Lost a 1000$. Would have lost more if I didn't bail out on time!

of course - i'm going to count you two in the "I got scammed by NXT" group  - as you see an investment as something that runs for 3 to 6 months right ?

clearly i'm dealing with investment gurus.

how i know that is because you purchased NXT to start with (of course)

truth is we need you guys, so in that respect we thank you.

Just like any other major coin. quark still a good coin and achieved some nice things. ShaqFu y'all 2015 coming at ya tearing shit up, don't miss the opportunity :P

And your willingness to engage in anything other than bluster and sarcasm makes you the pillar of openness and good sense   ;D You deserve nothing but respect and admiration  :D

crypto goes up and down - again if you can't handle the free market i guess that's why you purchased NXT right?

also in the first video you will notice i stated that the incline would be a slow rise, we are close to about the mean average of that slow rise now, maybe we are a bit undervalued, we will see.

Cryptos first decentralised digital goods store has been built within Nxt and is being tested on the testnet (digital ebay). Physical ebay is in development (ask me for the link if interested)

Have a go on the testnet here: https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-0e/


The Nxt scam gets another crypto first  :D :D :D

Who was the second Nxt guy to be scammed by Quark btw? You mentioned two people above

just leave quark out of it and don't get personal. stick to facts ppl, reflects better on NXT

Don't blame the coin, blame yourself for being a shit trader

Well, next time you attempt to use CMC don't click on any filters. And you really can't read well enough to spot "SolarCoin" on CMC?
Still, it must be an easy mistake to make, I expect you don't spend very much time looking at the top 20 section of CMC these days.

built the most innovative Coin, with a running asset exchange, encrypted messages and so on in order to scam people....

hey my account here is 4 years old, fake obv ;)

I am not a trader, I am an investor. I agree with you, I suck at day trading because I am not looking for pump and dump schemes as other day traders are doing. That is why I lost a money with Quark, I was new in cryptos, I heard what Colin and Still had to say and I invested. It turned out to be a pump and dump scheme and I lost money. On the other hand as an investor in a healthy coin like NXT is I am doing pretty good.

Here we can see how a scammer (Colin of Quark aka digitalindustry) is accusing other people being a scam. Priceless!!

Lets start buying QUARK. It is the calm before the storm!!!!!
Only 90% down. Can only go up.

Look at the volume. Nearly 10000$ traded EACH DAY!!!


https://i.imgur.com/KtL962b.png

LOL! I have a good laugh with your post!

The problem is that there is actually people that lost a lot of money coz of the quark scam perpetrated by individuals as Kolin Evans aka "digitalindustry"

That makes me really sad  :(

Well NXT and all the other Cryptos are not any better, the price goes up, those who invested early make money. Those noobs traders buy at the high and lose money and constantly whine about scam. Don't be a butthurt faggot about it and blame your own shitty trading, i bet lot of people lost tons of money on NXT too as well as Bitcoin and Litecoin. Quark unlike all those other shitty ass one day fly scams is still here and people actively working behind the scenes and yeah this "scam" managed to be the first Crypto going to be used as in-game payments in a big game worth $450,000 for pc and console and another game is being made as well.

And I bet you won't be able to find anyone who's lost serious money in NXT yet, certainly not as investors.
As usual in crypto, some people have been scammed and had NXT stolen, but losing money on NXT trading would be pretty difficult, tbh, you'd have to have really bad timing, and a bit of hodling will make up for any shitty trades in the long term.
Take a look at:
http://i59.tinypic.com/24n3608.jpg

^ Yeah sure nobody lost big on that decline from 100m market cap to 20m lol, i bet people lost on that huge 80m decline. Hodling helped some, but this goes the same for all the active coins.

small correction - i'm not so much "accusing" NXT of being a scam, rather its more like if you read all the information, and then still buy it, well maybe investing in "crypto" isn't your thing.

so you see its not so much as me accusing, its more like the simple facts speaking for themselves.

i mean I'm sure we do know some people that will see 1 Billion units created in  under less than a second, to then be "distributed" to a special 73 set of "investors", I mean sure ?  why not?

Hell, lets just send me Crypto, i promise you nice fixed return just keep sending me the wealth!

Quark ended up in 100s if not 1000s of hand from genesis and was thrown around exchanges for nearly zero - then the market recognized it as a genuine crypto and it had a run up, its still in its distribution phase , NXT was scam mined to the developers, then is now being slowly sold off to idiots that are stupid enough to buy it at the price it is.

don't get me wrong you get A+ for innovation and you are clearly onto a good thing, i can see this just by the number of scammees you have suckered.

I'm not trying to say that no-one lost out on that long slide to May, but I've never heard any horror stories about massive losses.
Like the old saying goes: buy red, sell green. Most people I know treated that slide as a damn good time to buy in......not  a good time to sell.
And the future is looking pretty good for NXT, tbh, features are coming up in the 1.20 release that will lead to another explosion in economic activity in the NXT system.

ok guys it that better?

i put up a disclaimer, i can see some people aren't happy with this thread ??

quark is dead bro.

I've gotta point out the delightful fact that this thread has coincided perfectly with a 12% rise in NXT value.....its almost like free publicity or something....

Really, the problem I have here is that the OP only has one point to use against NXT, and that is the early distribution.
And early distribution bitching is just as applicable to almost all other cryptos: How many people mined BTC in the first 24 hours? Or LTC ? Or Quark ?
Its a very thin argument that kind of looks like jealousy....you got anything better, DI ?

Hmm quarks price went from 23 to 24 during this Thread lol

And have you checked out the Nxt Multigateway yet Colin? Almost trustless crypto to crypto trading and it is here now  :D Did you put a link in your blog? You can test it yourself (small amounts mind, it is still quite new). I'd be interested to know how this ties into the big Nxt scam. Hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of lines of code, these are the most dedicated scammers I've ever seen  ;D

“Nxt is created, and the genesis block reveals that 1,000,000,000 coins were distributed to 73 stakeholders, with the proportion of coins received dependent upon the each stakeholder’s portion of the original funcraising total. Nxt’s original market capitalization was $800,000USD.”

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_History


^^^^^^^^^^^^^


nope that's all anyone needs right there - and the rest can be up to them, good scamming well played.

fantastic - well of course you are going to be dedicated if you are getting result and getting people in subsidizing your investment as you can sell into these suckers as you oh, you know, gave yourself 99 % of the units in one second.

"digitalindustry", in all seriousness, are you having a mental breakdown right now? relax a bit man!

I hope after relaxing for a while you're going to realise that your incompetent statements are just exposing yourself to ridicule. I'm not sure whether that was your actual intention when you created this funny thread.

chill - i'm just doing some cataloging, this stuff washes on Wall ST because there's one exchange and the system is rigged from the get go, i'm fine with that, that's meant to be a scam, but this is the new world if you want to scam prepare to be shown up, if its not me it will be someone else.

there are no real investors in NXT anyhow, you might have put some cash in there and realized a % return, but as i said sure people made money off the S&P500 as well this year.

i'm just cataloging a scam and having some fun.

if you really did put money in there you should review that, innovation will come to crypto no matter what, not though the scams of a few people or corporations.

** on the up side like that little cake and cherry next to the addresses what's that all about?

*** if its a Java thing that's ok Java is known to be a swiss cheese back door ridden quasi language. (but everything in its right place) (but i know nothing, so can't comment on that.)

I made 100 points on s&p bought at 1550 sold 1650. I think when the dow and s&p crashes Crypto will brutally rise

i generally agree -

it depends on the nature of the "crisis" - i.e if its deflationary or inflationary.

it however could be both as when there is a "bail in" - this will be deflationary but could cause a broader "collapse in confidence".

this is why its important to not be caught up in scams and try to navigate the very small field of real crypto currency.

I bought my Nxt, so I must be the scammee right?  ;D

And you dodge another question to bang the drum for you baseless assertions :D you find any of that proof I asked about earlier? (Twice) ;D

Nah, didn't think so :D

Man, I wish I had the free time to write a lengthy troll OP and respond to countless posts, all in the name of protecting my fellow BTT members from a coin I'm jealous I wasn't part of from the beginning, but instead invested in Quark which is now dead, congrats digitalindustry! 

^^ Maybe it's volume, but people are sure active behind the scenes. Volume can change in an instant when projects deliver.

Kolin,

as said before on other threads, also on Reddit, I think you aren´t doing Quark or any other cryptocurrency a favor by writing this kind of posts and while I disagree with the counterbashing I think that some (EDIT: most) people who challenge your argumentation have actually better arguments than you.

One of your main points seem to be the assumption that the NXT IPO was a scam where developer bought their own coins to bump the prize and then get fiat rich. To me that is a harsh statement that needs to be backed it up with solid proof and I don´t see any, particularly any that would incriminate the developer directly.

With regard to the  "fake volume" you are repeating an argument that people stated against Quark - and, guess what, in some way everyone´s right on that one: The volume of many coins - especially pure POS coins but also coins with a quick mining period like Quark - cause a bump on marketcap-pages that can cause a hype without any real substance (btw. hard to say what is "quick", quick can be 6 days as with Blackcoin, it can be several months as with Quark but it can also be several years as with Bitcoin depending on the scale from which we are looking at it). Of course the hype disguises the effective (way smaller) potential behind the currency and this CAN be used to scam people... but the fact that it CAN be used doesn´t mean it IS used and this is how we need to treat it in an argumentation. Again, Quark has been addressed with this type of arguments (pump and dump) again and again, which is why I have even less sympathy for repeating them.

I don´t mind to be critical to projects like NXT. Other projects that worked the same have been proven to be frauds, so there is a lot of potential to betray people - let´s be honest: this potential exist with every cryptocurrency. Should we start calling all cryptocurrencies a scam? (remember, there are lot of people doing that already)

And one more: Assuming that everyone who disagrees is a sockpuppet or that people are bought looks very unprofessional and I am not surprised at all that you need to deal with a lot of haters.

Let´s go back to building instead of bashing.

thanks for your opinion -

but unfortunately this is not the way crypto currency works, again i'm not telling people to not buy into the NXT scam, in fact if you believe its a great investment feel absolutely free to dive in.

I suppose there could be an argument that the fact that 1 Billion units were created in less than one second and then issued to "73" address , that if these addresses were primarily the developers that in effect people that come in later and hand wealth to them at the price they bid up themselves (on their own exchange).

I suppose there is an argument that says :

 "well, i'm stupid and i'd like to invest in  something that is bid up on its own exchange and was issued to its own developers, because I believe that in giving them my wealth they will make cool things and then i can participate in that which will in turn further drive the idea that we can get more investors"

so from that perspective i can totally see where NXT makes sense in a sort of Crypto IPO "Stock" quasi scam, i guess if i stretch my imagination (and we can all drink a lot more fluoride) we can probably accept that.

however:


---------

A word on “Proof of Work”

Crypto currency is based on “Proof of Work” this means that crypto is a “trust-less” system where people don’t have to try to trust other people to “IPO” (or distribute) the currency, that’s the whole point of Crypto currency.

Nxt is “technically” still a crypto currency as it still does have a block-chain (some don’t even have this), however the (PoW) proof of work period was done all at once and to themselves the developers.

by doing this they then shifted the “trust” from a mechanical system (the point of Crypto currency) to a “Trust us we promise to only give it to charity” type system.

So it only takes a small amount of education to see which system is:

    -- “Potentially Flawed” and/or
    -- “Totally flawed”

All PoW has the chance to be “potentially flawed” and most are, this is what allows 100′s even thousands of crypto currencies to exist, the better the PoW (distribution) period generally the better the overall fundamentals.

however a PoW that is “Totally flawed” i.e there was no market participation, such as “Nxt” ( they probably generated the whole 1 Billion in a single super block on a laptop), that is a system that can’t be recovered from, it can be seen as a “Quasi Crypto currency” and is nearly 100% of the time by definition, a Scam.

The better it looks and more effort put in to the appearance,(and more gimmicks) the more likely in % terms that its is in fact a design to take your (or other marks) wealth.

+1 to quarkfx

I dont mind criticism of NXT, if it's actually pointing out a real issue. But DI's continual scam accusations are getting a bit old......especially as his/her/its only argument or evidence for the scam theory is that NXT had a limited initial distro.  [sarcasm] Unlike every other crypto ever.....{/sarcasm]


Which projects are you thinking of in the above quote?


Best line in the whole thread.......theres more than enough room for everyone at the crypto-party.
(and NXT is not a scam, you Antipodean git.....)

thanks for your friendly feedback EvilDave, you know you have nearly brought me around !
 
you are the friendly sock puppet that will surely get more nxt suckers! great work.... : )

also Quarkfx - no i'd say there are some scammees and some sock puppets.

why i have likely annoyed both is because if you are a scameee and you then realized, i.e you purchased then found out,

if someone comes in a starts to ruin the party i.e spreading knowledge of the scam, then obviously others will know about the scam, then that hurts your "investment."

this is one of the inherent risks of investing in a scam.

its very easy to drag it along if you can control all of the information vectors, then , hey ! "its not a scam right?" however things get very cagey in the real world.



*and if you are a sock puppet then you really don't matter that much. (as you made something for nothing and gave it to yourself)


Summary :

everything aside it just comes down to the fact that investors would be cool with 1 Billion units generated in less that one second then given to 73 addresses and then traded on its own made up exchange.

if investors are fine with that, then i expect NXT to truly be the "NXT big thing"

Strap on your ROCKET PACK ! !

https://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/3-31/qj8j6tCE9b-10.png

DI:  couple of points here:

NXT had one initial dev, with a community-funded group of devs taking over fairly soon after the Genesis block was created. (mmm...reminds me of something)
So your shares to devs argument fails immediately. I know a fairly good selection of the initial stakeholders and most of them couldn't dev their way out of a paper bag.

Do I have to remind you that the initial offer was open to all humans on BTT who could read the IPO thread and invest?

On the own exchange routine: you must be referring to DGEX, which was set up by a NXT'er to trade NXT.
Amazingly suspicious, especially for a new currency on a completely new code base that other exchanges couldn't/wouldn't list.  

As you can see, DGEX now dominates the NXT market:
http://i58.tinypic.com/sg7o0g.jpg
Not.
All of NXT trading volume (more or less) comes from BTER and Cryptsy with a total of 95% between them.

You also seem to completely miss the (not unimportant) point that NXT probably has more devs and a larger active commmunity than almost any other currency out there.
In fact, you seem to miss most of the points very badly, which is wierd. This kind of blindness to facts make most of your posts little more than obvious trolling.
I've looked at pretty much every (semi-)serious crypto out there and there isn't much that impresses me after seeing how NXT is developing.
Like it or not, NXT is the current leader in the 2nd gen crypto space, ansd will probably stay that way.

(Oh, yeah, my verdict on Quark: pretty good first gen crypto, probably deserves to do better than it has up to now.)


EDIT

DI: callling me a sockpuppet just shows how astonishingly hopeless you are. Do some research.

I totally agree with you Digitalindustry. We need education on this slippery crypto market that is fleecing honest people and leaving them naked and cold in the middle of the paddock lol. This form of theft and dishonesty is disgusting and must be exposed by anyone who has knowledge of such unrighteous behavior. If we who are involved in crypto dont start exposing the scams then you obviously are more interested in profit than your fellow man and that is what we are trying to get away from. I say expose all the scams and step on the toes of every single one of them until they collapse as this is just the right thing to do.
The honest crypto's will rise to the top like cream once the average Joe is educated as scams can only exist where there is ignorance and educating people with the truth destroys the very foundation these scammers rely on and feed upon.

Yup.....NXT is not a scam. Its simple. NXT is the cream......

I admire your patience. He is trolling so hard and you are able to keep calm. I am a bit jealous of this ability ;)

100% agree of course - and guess what?

if we don't, you can throw crypto currency away, for good.

these scammers have absolutely no interest in the technical aspects of a decentralized system.

EvilDave is going to hide behind a sock puppet account and tell me that its "for the good" of development, sure i agree that Quark went too far the other way and others have commented on the fact that developers need direct incentive, we hope to fix that generally.

but that is a separate argument from the "we decided to mine it all and give it to ourselves , oh wait, trust us we didn't!"

re your exchanges so what?  now you generous guys have decided to give some fees to other exchanges?  big deal i see straight though you (you should really not respond),.

you made your own exchange FIRST so that you could initially bid up the price yourself, so as to create "buzz" absolutely no different to  what "neutrino" just did.

the funny thing is everyone involved in crypto knows this , i'm just going to educate a wider market that's all.

simple.

@EvilDave


I was thinking of things like NFD-coin or NXT-e (however with NXT-e I am not sure what happened. I only remember that the developer was deleting critical questions from the thread). It is obvious that IPOs combined with anonymous currencies provide some potential to scam people. I also think that borders between scam and good business is blurred in all cryptocurrencies because there are lot of people putting money into it and just hope that it grows so they can be rich. We simply don´t know because (given the anonymity) we don´t know who´s in. The best the communities can do is show their dedication and work on community and infrastructure.


@Kolin


Fact is that you can´t prove your thesis with hard facts, which means that we are only dealing with your assumptions - this is not enough to start calling people names or stupid (or posting childish images).

Why do some people still call Bitcoin a scam? Because it COULD be a scam. IS it a scam? We don´t know until it is mainstream and diversified so market manipulations can´t happen. It also doesn´t matter if a coin was hyped for profits if the community proves that they are not only trading it for quick gains but invests in the project. Fact is: there are only few coins that ARE scams by itself - which is when the developer only launches the coin to collect money from people and then disappear. In most cases the coin is just a technology and, yes, it can be used to scam people. But it can also be used to become a legit currency. This argument can be applied to every coin. To NXT but also to Quark and most others

nearly 9 months of "Paying" for volume you say?

Do you ever wonder, why the top NXT holders, are not continuously selling NXT? That would be the goal right?

In fact the top NXT holders, are adding new NXT every month by buying more on the market.

Such stupid scammers, they are becoming the bagholders...

that's too bad...  some people won't be holding nxt when it reaches dollar parity because of this thread. 

hmm i think we are breaking the "law of trolling" here, i can't troll a troll, this is me wasting time, the important part is when real people see the blog and go:

"oh right, i see that's how the scam works......."

then never invests any wealth in this or its clones.

Ok, in this case, thank you for telling me :)

If you sincerly feel this way, maybe we shouldn't call you a troll, but help you understand, what a "fact" is. Or atleast, how to interpret facts.

@quarkfx: there's actually no point in talking to the guy. The entire thread is just a showcase of digitalindustry's idiocy.



P.S. Kolin, there are countless "real people" and "real developers" in NXT, your insignificant blog is nothing but a waste of time. Your terrible writing style and incompetence (which you're illustrating with every single post) don't help either. How can you be helped?

sadly Quarkfx no.

no one can call Bitcoin a scam, because hard numbers prove its not, its very flawed and we all know the problems, it may be so flawed that it completely fails ?

however, it is not a scam because PROOF OF WORK (PoW) proves that.

you see it was mined from a genesis block and then a (admittedly small number)  ( but it was the first of the protocol)  mined it.

then for a time it was at around 1 dollar and people could mine it with GPU's you can ask on here, that happened its all on the blockchain in numbers.

so unfortunately no that argument can't be applied to currency that had a proof of work period with provable difficulty and many participants.

which can all be proved by looking at the blockchain and difficulty and, generally checking the history.

Summary:

I'm not trying to be obtuse i know i'm coming across that way but, to me this matters little, people don't invest because they "like me" or not, they invest in quality, scams are not quality.

Crypto is not a stock and PoW math proves which crypto are scams or not.

"trust in the numbers not sock puppets"

could be a way to sum it up.

care factor - i'm going to move the Nxt scam to its own blog page (as obviously it needs it)  - review the writing and even translate it into different languages.

then when someone wants to learn about a crypto IPO scam NXT can be the perfect example.

**how to avoid that is to not create scams or invest in scams, and thus not try to wreck crypto currency generally.

oh i don't discount the fact that you have scammed lots of people out of cash by now, and to tell you the truth the scammer in me has a little proud twinkle in my eye for your amazing effort, however, its time to put away the scam bag now and go home.

@Kolin


Scams can exist on different levels. Maybe 99% of all Bitcoin holders are just scammers trying to sell an ideological narrative (money created and governed by the people) and dump once the exchange rate explodes. Who knows? I don´t think that this is going to happen, but if we´re honest we simply don´t know. The bigger the community and the better the infrastructure, the less likely it will be possible to scam people, which is why we should rather do something for our own community instead of bashing others.

Were people scammed by Bitcoin when it dropped from 30$ to 0.5$? You bet that there were enough people who felt scammed and enough who were scammed, because they sold. But today we can clearly say, that rather those who sold for 30$ were scammed.

I don´t like this argumentation because it is frequently used to promise people huge rewards even in desperate situations but it demonstrates the meaning of scam can only be attributed retrospectively in this cases. As long as there is an ongoing development in infrastructure we can at least assume that there is sme valuable substance.

Yeah, NFD was a monster scam as it turned out. Original dev took all the IPO and ran away........not an unknown story round here.
BUT: a group of initial investors/scammees then took over the project, sorted out the mess and launched NFD as a straight NXT clone with a couple of tweaks.
So NFD is probably (in its present form) less of a scam than many other cryptos.
Have a look at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=606837.0
I'm kinda proud of the way the NFD crew pulled together ( and yes, I do have a stake....)
Buy some EvilCoin, btw, if you get into NFD......

NXT-e i'd never even heard of, tbh, there are so many NXT clones coming up its hard to keep track of them all.
DI is gonna be knee-deep in PoS soon, and I don't think he's gonna like it.
Edit: turns out NXT-e was an exchange IPO scam, not even a currency. Ingenious little fu**ers.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453580.0
DI is gonna be knee-deep in PoS soon, and I don't think he's gonna like it.

I think I've figured out Di's issue, btw, he doesnt trust/understand PoS at all. For him, real coins are mined by hairy chested men with big racks.......
Doesn't explain his hate boner for NXT in particular, but he's not the first guy with a vendetta NXT has seen.

yes i kind of see where you come from FX but you have to kind of take the emotion out of it.

they (Bitcoin, LTC, Quark and a few other PoW currencies) either are or are not a scam (to all reasonable purposes) (and people call me paranoid fx).

here are the points:

- The code C++ one of the most common and robust and well known open source codes in the history of mankind.

- The "buzz" and "value" around the bitcoin protocol has caused 100 maybe thousands of people to look at the code.

- elliptical encryption that is used for address protection is known to be flawed, but fixable.

- Quark exists.

- if there are other "malleability" flaws in the client code then this creates a stand off, because it will be found eventually, and this will not destroy the idea of crypto currency, but the makers or people that know the flaw exist risk everything to expose it.

- Bitcoin is not the end of the road for Crypto very likely the start.

- Everything i see indicates an attack (as futile as it is)  on Crypto and you don't attack things you know are flawed.  (all things being equal)


so its quite simple - if someone said that to me i'd just simply be energy neutral and just ask , where is the scam?

see the difference?

fixed your post up a little......can u spot the changes?

ha ha thanks for the laugh..

anyhow, back to normal business now.

knee deep i PoS, but its so easy?, i will just simply spend 10 minutes writing a blog to show the scam then i can safely ignore them all?

if anyone asks my opinion i can just take 5 minutes to look at that particular scam , then point the person to the blog.

and say :

etc etc etc.

they will go , "oh dam thanks its so easy to see once you know"

or thy will say "I think that risk is acceptable"

upon which i will think "you are stupid, but lovable..."  

and give the a pat on the back.

looks sad and desperate - yeah i noticed that.

Java lol.

I'm slightly sleepy, that helps. And I've had a little bit of practice before....... 8)
Oh, yeah, and Di is completely wrong, so that makes it a lot easier.

This post is 95% yours, Di. Sad and desperate? Need a friend ? Come and join us on the dark side.........

https://nxtforum.org/

http://nxtclients.org/

http://www.nxtcommunity.org/

 :D :D :D I lol'd at the sad and desperate bit coming from colin  ;D

If he would interact with intellectual honesty (see quarkfx's encouragement) rather than obvious attempts to inflame opinion against him, colin would attract more views to his blog.

Did I mention Nxt's turing complete Automated Transactions have begun the process of being integrated into the core? A testnet is being set up as we speak, 100% trustless escrows, auctions, lotteries and more will soon be reality. While ethereum has yet to get out of the gates  ;D Read more here >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/information-of-the-at-project

Just so we don't forget who are we talking here with:

and if i was a broker on wall st i'd be able to steal heaps more wealth than your scam...but its hard to see your point?

Simply put then, you have ignored me and others so far in this thread who have asked legitimate questions one how you can believe your assertions are facts, in favour of posturing, posting penis rockets and trying to get a rise out of people.

I presume you think if people get angry and call you names then that vindicates your position of asserting Nxt is a scam based on no evidence?


And also, have you heard about NxtBridge? It is a wrapper that will allow Nxt to be integrated into exchanges/payment systems as easily as bitcoin and any bitcoind fork. As Nxt is brand new code, some exchanges etc have had a hard time implementing it but dedicated Nxt devs have overcome this to further the integration of Nxt  ;D Read about it here >>> https://nxtforum.org/general/adaptor-for-legacy-bitcoin-protocols

Now now, you're are just playing into his hands with threats. Wrestle with his brain instead (if he chooses to play along) ;D  CIYAM, the developer of Automated Transactions above, is Australian so it balances out  :D


I will be away from my computer for most of today so look forward to reading this when I get back  ;D In the meantime, take a look a Nxt Android Client, one of three options in development here >>> https://nxtforum.org/nxt-wallet-for-android/project-ideaoffer-nxt-wallet-for-android/

I don´t think that I am the one who´s emotional here. I disagree on the either is or is not a scam

Let´s assume you were right and all initial NXT were sent to the developer to pump the coin: what would happen if those people would sell off at one point (which would obviously their point since this would be what the scam is all about)? The exchange rate would drop dramatically and many people will claim to have "lost" their investment. But once all the initial "scammers" are out, what prevents the coin to be a success in the end? That is what happens to all crypto, which is why I referred to the Bitcoin drop from 30USD to 50cts, because this moment could be considered as a major scam as well (and it was, as far as I read). It also happened to Quark: The coin was hyped in December was far beyond its effective value. Lots of people went into for fast money, not because they wanted to develop Quark and some of those who had massive stakes because of early mining dropped their coins. People called that a scam as well, and they were wrong as you are in this discussion: With crypto there is no "real" value but the network/community which develops the crypto and stuff on top of it.

As long as crypto isn´t adopted by the mainstream it can be used to guide peoples actions with expectations a la "this is going to skyrocket" or "this is certainly the bottom, won´t get lower". I remember you wrote the latter about Quark at 500 satoshi and I thought it was just not right because neither you, nor me nor anyone else can actually know how the network reacts. I believe that Quark can come back and it is the same with other crypto - even if there are massive drops a dedicated community can catch up and move on.

I know I repeat myself, but you need to understand that your bashing of NXT doesn´t do any good and ironically mirrors arguments that have been brought against Quark (and were rejected by you as well). Take this advise from a friend: leave it, learn and move on. We have lots of thing to do, let´s mind our own business.

Please, read quarkfx post. It is the valuable one.

After the reading and the comprehension, you can lock, erase and burn this thread. Maybe People will forget this all nonsense and butthurt in some months.

You are welcome.

+1 props to quarkfx for keeping it professional and respectful.

Social Economics of a scam.

hey Fx - at least we can claim something this will be one of the first time that PoW and economics will have been discussed on this section of the forum for a long time.

now, where you have drifted a bit...

If you study some Nash equilibrium and game theory you will see that no, it makes much more sense to drag the scam out as long as possible, because of course then  the system can carry on and the original owners that created 1 Billion units in less than one second can slowly sell out at a "very high" (read unlimited infinity profit) (that they initially bid up on their own exchange of course.)

again,  where am i saying don't invest?

if you think that system is good, by all means throw wealth at it.

I am however saying it does not adhere to a system of PoW and it is a scam.

Cryptocurrency

Now lets move to actual cryptocurrency, yes Quark and Bitcoin were mined with provable PoW - you see the difference, Quark was mined by lots of people on this forum the original historical topic goes back to the first blocks.

so we don't have to use the "trust us we are not scammers" system, because all the people that had the information at that time were able to mine.

you see Math and Proof of Work replaced the "Trust" in the system, and that is the reason Cryptro currency exists or was invented.

then yes, the price got exuberant that is a normal aspect of the free market, my comments at 5000Sat were also a hope that larger holders would sell down, and they did, the more we distribute the  better long term, thats also a part of the free market.

Summary

One system uses humans that like to scam people to handle the "trust aspect".

the other uses Mathematics and Proof of Work.

you can invest in any one you like.

That is one of the most deluded remarks I've seen and belies quite a lack of understanding of what constitutes money.

A zillion CPU cycles don't constitute "Proof of Work". Bitcoins are not traded as tokens of computing power. The idea behind proof of work is to synthesise scarecity - whether they are mined over 20 years or 20 minutes, scarcity is the priority in both cases.

The gripe that many miners have over the way NxT was brought into existence is that it goes against all their philosophical understandings of what a crypto currency is about. But that doesn't make it a "scam". Nobody was "scammed" in this launch.

I'm into NxT in quite a big way and one of the reasons is that I see POS as a huge leap forward over POW, regardless of the flawed arguments that digitalindustry has trotted out on this thread. The "distribution" issue can be solved in more ways than mining - markets is one of them.

But more than that, most of the criticisms levelled at NXT are based in plain and simple jealousy and not even veiled jealousy at that. People just don't think it "reasonable" that early stakeholders make that much gain with such a small amount of pain (or so it would seem in retrospect - it wasn't the case at the time which is something the desperate critics must to overlook in their little toytown ethics-police role). Yet they seem to think it reasonable that if they get "in on a coin" early at low difficulty and then sell a month later at a 10,000% gain, that's ok.

Well I'm afraid they'll just have to swallow it. Scam or not, it's here, was brought into existence by totally legitimate means, is growing, innovating and being healthily traded.

digitalindustry and cohorts will keep wailing and throwing their toys out of the pram for a good while yet no doubt, but they were doing that way back in January saying the coin would be "dead" in 6 weeks. Those remarks are now being seen for the nonsense that they were and so will the ones being made today.

{sigh} ok thanks, A+ for effort

now just go an learn about cryptocurrency i suggest starting with a blog like mine, use your favorite search engine.

you will be amazed what you can learn, good luck !

I'm not taking issue with your opinions on cryptocurrenies - everyone is entitled to their opinions even though they may differ from mine.

I'm taking issue with your definition of the word "scam", which has nothing to do with cryptocurrencies, and your excessive use of that term to make a lazy argument against crypto assets you don't personally like. I'm saying you've never remotely made the case that justifies that accusation.

P.S. "sudo" is spelled "pseudo" outside of a command line. For an education blog you sure could do with a spell checker  ;)

i'm happy with "sudo" but thanks for the tip ! i will fix that! 

now maybe i can help you learn? :

"one CPU one vote"

who said it?

@Toknormal,

Why did you waste your time elaborating such a nice post in the thread created by a mentally ill individual? Did you see his answer to it? Hope you learn the lesson...

BTW, why the fuck I am wasting my time right now?  ???

Why the fuck am I wasting my time reading you guys in this thread? (I already put digitalindustry on ignore) ;D

Sakoshi Nakamoto said that, and I don't have any problem with it. It is the philosophy that underpins the Proof of Work algo, but it doesn't underpin the basis of money in general.

That's where we possibly differ.

POS coins are no different from plastic tokens at a funfair - valueless until adopted as an accepted token of monetary exchange, at which point they acquire monetary value, just the same as any other token would whether it be a tally stick, funfair token, govpaper, or chewing gum card.

If you're saying that the fact that POS breaks the one CPU one vote principle is the basis for your accusation of "scam", then I think you're on very weak ground, for 2 reasons:

 - that principle only applies in the domain of POW crypto currencies
 - the common understanding of the word "scam" is an unequal exchange. i.e. I take your money and in exchange give you a commodity of significantly less value that you are **not able to trade away**

That's where I think you are unjustified in maligning other cryptocurrencies on this basis, because this is demonstrably not the case and has never been so.

i was wondering when you would come to that ?

by replying, you are bumping the topic to the top of the front page and thus exposing your scam to many more people, this is not the best way to conduct a scam.

a gypsy trick like this one will need to be much better hidden.

indeed my rational sock puppet friend.  is it ok if i call you that?  it seems like "EvilDave" was the "friendly" sock puppet the other one was the "threatening" one ha ha, and you are the "rationalizing" one?

so you are trying to "rationalize" that :

1 Billion NXT units given to 73 addresses is ok?

BLOCK    :   2680262203532249785
Timestamp   :   24.11.2013 13:00:00
Height   :   0
Next Block   :   6556228577102711328
Previous Block   :   0
Pay Load Length   :   9344 B
Num. Transactions   :   73
Total Fee   :   0
Base Target   :   100.00 %
Total Amount   :   1,000,000,000 NXT
Generator Account   :   1739068987193023818
Generator RS    :   NXT-MRCC-2YLS-8M54-3CMAJ
Version   :   -1
Perma Link   :   Show
Block SIgnature : 69d426c498b70ac6d1678180356527c1fee030ad732fbf7672c2266d166a4c08cf8fdeb4524fd1b 496bbcaab03fa6e67760f6da452251402249015486c487211
Generation Signature : 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Previous Block Hash : n/a
Payload Hash : 72c8a92efffbd8695a866eabb13ca460a2f7cdf3283b82efb163360d6eec9469

what i'm saying is that PoW distribution that tries to adhere to the "one CPU one Vote" principal obviously avoids this sort of obvious scam.

you are trying to somehow confuse and "Rationalize" in PoS - where i'm not talking about PoS at all, its flawed indeed but thats not what is at issue here.

i'm talking about making 1 Billion units of something and "fake" giving it to yourself.  then doubling down and making your own exchange (Wall St Style) and bidding it up.

It's a matter of opinion whether it's "ok" or not.

What it categorically isn't is a "scam".


Feel free to check my posting history of you think I'm a "sockpuppet". That isn't much of challenge given that you've spent a significant acrage of forum space over to maligning, without much basis, a perfectly good crypto currency project which now has the input of hundreds of creative hands and is traded fairly on the open market.

trust me its a term of endearment, not an insult, socks a furry and cuddly.

so this conversation is over then?

"It's a matter of opinion whether it's "ok" or not."

What your basically saying is that in a reasonable POW difficulty profile, the dev cannot "create" the coins out of thin air - 3rd parties have to "draw" it into existence and, as such, are subject to the 1 CPU 1 vote rule. Whereas with NXT, the dev basically mined the whole lot himself and sold them off for "peanuts" to early adopters (and possibly keeping a whole pile for himself) which makes a mockery of the POW philosophy.

What I'm saying is that it's for the market to decide if that's ok or not because - even in the case of POW - only the market can give those coins value.

If the market gives the coin a valuation over the long term, then you've got to look again at your reasoning because you either got something wrong somewhere, or your simply not looking at it in a broad enough context (and last but not least - you might just be green with envy).

The reason this aspect of it is important is because your judging a historical event on the basis of a current valuation which is where your "scam" accusation lacks integrity. At the time the NXT IPO took place, the altcoin world was a whole different landscape. LTC had been trading for less than a dollar only weeks before and "2nd Gen" alts were unheard of - no more than a bedroom coding experiment.

If you're going to lay "blame" on anyone (not that I know even now what crime has been committed to justify blame, but you seem to sure have a problem with it) then blame the markets, not the devs. Without the markets this would all have been no more than a 21 BTC bench test prototype and you definitely WOULD have a scam on your hands because those stakeholders would have turned bagholders. As it is they did pretty well out of to and so has everyone since that invested. If you're saying that the 71 were all "in on it" then:

a) you'd better have some evidence of it given the amount of accusations you've let fly

b) your better start a list because there's a few thousand more where those 71 came from and they've all benefitted to a greater or lesser extent

I encourage you to update this thread and your blog with Nxt progress.  I appreciate all your work to promote Nxt, keep it up digitalindustry!

IMO, the devs are entitled to do what the hell they like and the market's equally entitled to deny that coin a valuation if it's unhappy with the asset or if it thinks the asset lacks financial integrity for any reason.

Ethics doesn't come into it as long as deception hasn't taken place.

If the dev kept all the coins for himself while "pretending" to the market that they were sold to genuine 3rd parties then that would constitute deception and would be a problem, but you'd need to come up with some evidence of it.

Also, at the time the IPO took place, the coins weren't worth anything, so all this stuff we're discussing now would have been hypothetical back then.

um.. who are you talking to?

are you still talking to me?

yes i agree it up to the market to decide if the 1 Billion to 73 "shareholders" + plus made up own exchange, is a good system or not.

that's what you said and that's what i said.

so you see , we said the same thing WE ARE FRIENDS YOU AND I !  : D WE ARE INTERNET FRIENDS !

http://bitscan.com/articles/what-are-you-trying-to-prove

Good piece.....should be required reading.

well KindlyDan  you see i run them all though virus total first and then make sure they are on a useless system.

https://www.virustotal.com/ro/url/c6bd5bd5a69c0607011a7bba0b890d9eac0b55fe5fbe1117a9ac5d1ce7990d04/analysis/1404249592/

this one comes up the goods - its nothing personal you know , its a NXT thing.

Java is the perfect language for mediocre programmers. It's easy to find programmers who can produce working code, a bit like Visual Basic if you knew it... Ask in the developers forums what they think about Java, so many programmers hate it.

There's a lot of bad code but it's not a problem because Java allows you to produce bad code that you can't do in C and C++.

But Java is really easy to make and maintain extremely large enterprise applications, that's why it's popular and many enterprise projects are done in Java but many enterprise projects were done in Visual Basic too, no it's not a reference...

you might be able to comment more - but i see it as a great code of "none essential stuff"  somewhere between   web front and something that you don't care if the "NSA" has a million back door in? 

You're starting to get seriously incoherent, Di.

If there's one thing I learned from this forum, its that there's absolutely no association between intelligence and wealth anymore. Maybe there was at one point, but now they have become decoupled and there is no correlation here anymore.

Just because you have money, it doesn't mean you are smart... simplified it for all the self-proclaimed rich people out there ;)

I posted a link......thats all. How on earth, are you reading anything more into it? You need a holiday.

Have you been socialising with bluemeanie  ???

+1

just want to keep this baby bumped.

+1

Do you think people only read the headline if it is bumped day after day?  :D :D :D :D :D

Sticky this please !
Every new guy should be forced to read this before trading.
Good job it was concise and well laid out.

This is what i have thought about NXT etc and have just tried to avoid the topics but the spam this place hard with NXT hype crap more and more.

Funny thing is i got banned a week or two ago (for 5 days) for posting anti NXT comments on here.. they banned me for spamming they said.
Glad more guys are speaking out.. they can't ban us all here to protect their faggy little fucking scam  8)

and please do one for these topics for those 1 week POS scam clones too ;)
examples like the color coins or Guerilla coin or Cinni etc etc

edit:
and if you didn't bump this i would have missed it :(
I try and ignore any topic that has NXT in the title, that is why i must have missed it before hahah

Good argument, I'm convinced  :D :D :D :D :D


Careful, we're you pumping blackcoin (1 week POW before POS) up to it highs before it was dumped?




So a recap for all the newcomers then, the argument against Nxt is:

"I think that the initial distribution was bad and I don't care what has happened in the last 8 months"

 ::)

In this Blog, as well as the graph of 'Faggy Little Fucking Scams', can we please compare with a graph of 'Faggy Big Fucking Scams', as well? For educations sake.
 

If anyone who doesn't know what Nxt has done in the last 8 months, let me know and I will cross post my potted history from the other Kolin thread  ;D ;D ;D

A rule of thumb that never failed me: The more a user swears, the less arguments he has.

Never thought they would ban someone like you!  ;)

your high on crack..
i am not here to prove NXT is a scam.. that was covered by the OP i don't need to rehash it, he did a fine job lol

further more i have never said a word about Black coin nor have even looked at the ANN topic,
so don't try that crap on me.. funny thing is some random guy tried pulling that on Cryptsy chat last month..
he randomly started spouting off to everyone i was a hypocrite because i was hyping Black coin before
and funny thing is i have NEVER talked about it before nor do i know anything at all about it.
a LOT of guys run around here trolling and lying..

go ahead and search around and then show me my Black coin comments.. you won't find any.
so congrats smart ass you blew your credibility big time and your caught lying now.. ya your smart  ::)

want my autograph ? ..wow i have a lot of fans :) ;) lol
seems many of you have far more interest in what i do and say than you do in crypto coins  ::) ;) lol

care to make a comment ON-TOPIC ? ;) lol

please keep your trolling to PM's ..if you wanna buttsecs me ? PM me and we can go cyber together.. for a fee ;) lol ;) lol

any other random nobody noobs wanna come out of the word work with their shill/shell accounts ? ;) lol
the opinion of lippy nobodies is ooooooooh so important too me lol ;) lol

Have you deleted your posts from the mirror site too?

Edit: I think you are right, your account appears to be created a month ago. I think I was thinking of Subtuppel. And for the record, I asked a question and didn't make a statement.


So to conclude, you have nothing to add to:

"I think that the initial distribution was bad and I don't care what has happened in the last 8 months"

what in gods name does the fact some guy keeps coming out of nowhere accusing me of hyping Black coin before (which i didn't) have to do with this topic ?

seriously you trolls need to find something better to do with your time..
don't like me ? tough titty.. want me to buy you a box of kleenex cry babies ?

boo bloooody whooo i don't like some guy in the internet whhaaaaaah
grow up.

if you can't say something on the topic can you please just do the whole entire forum a favor and SFTU ?

edit:
why are you trying to argue with me anyway ? argue with the OP lol

People, including myself, thought you were Soepkip not Subtuppel as above (I just checked). Easily done when you aren't that interested in what they say. Remember the name and you will be able to correct people in future.



So to conclude, you have nothing to add to:

"I think that the initial distribution was bad and I don't care what has happened in the last 8 months"

HAHAHAAHHA

AFAIK Soepkip is a fair member of BlackCoin community and he is not close to a troll  ;)

Spoetnik is the one FULL OF SHIT here  :D

Just check his post history...Several polls were proposed to get his ass banned from this forum.

They shouldn't ban him, you just have to converse with him and then most the majority of even minded people will see what he is about.

That, guys, basically sums it up quite efficiently. Thanks, Daedelus. +1

+ 1

100% also the growing wiki cataloging all of them should be sticky also.

You guys could also try sticking your fingers in your ears and humming very loudly every time PoS gets mentioned.

Those thousands of quarkers who had mined for the first 6 months have done some hard proof of work so that they could get 98% of the quarks.
Bitcoin will release 98% of its coins by 2020, those who will have mined for the first 10 years have done some hard proof of work so that could get the bitcoins.

Completely PoS systems like Nxt created the coins out of thin air without doing any work. It also defeats the purpose of crypto currencies which doesn't require to trust someone to verify the blockchain, instead requires constant proof of work in order for the network to remain true to the mathematical consensus of all the participants in the mining division.
PoS systems defies this concept therefore it cannot be considered a crypto currency but rather a private issued currency maintained by sophisticated software which I admire but I don't trust. Whoever puts their trust in this private issued currency is doing so at their own risk and needs a special warning to distinguish itself from the crypto currencies which are issued and maintained based on proof of work, not out of thin air.

NXT uses the innovative "PoS" system

Proof of Scam.

its actually a real thing.

Thank you for your competent opinion!

Welcome to the future of decentralized applications.  

What is NXT? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuZH3a5MKik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuZH3a5MKik)
Get started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFbLNmEaFOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFbLNmEaFOs)
NXT AE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZtFYEeHk8o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZtFYEeHk8o)

a hint of what's going on:
Nxt Asset Exchange: https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange-general/
Nxt Multigateway: https://nxtforum.org/multigateway-jl777/
Automated Transactions: https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/
Digital Goods Store: https://nxtforum.org/digital-goods-store/
Nxt Monetary System: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/

Good day Kolin... I'm sure all your hatred makes you tired. Don't forget to relax a bit!

So you believe Nxt doesn't use a mathematical concensus to award blocks?

why would i hate you ? i like you instacash.

i'm helping you learn that there are two paths:

one is insta cash and its an easy path, but can just as easily come undone, and the other is one that involves not that much more work really, but is equally rewarding*

i'm fully relaxed - now just re-wrote an article on what is Proof of Work and why its important for beginners , and you give it to the NXT devs i.e maybe you two guys?

http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/what-is-proof-of-work-distribution-or-sometimes-stated-as-pow-for-cryptocurency-beginners/

* and you are not a thief or ruining crypto currency by proxy.

Why do you assume your opinion is valued and carries any weight with anyone,  especially when you repeatedly fail to defend it?

Why are you so negative? Is it all you've got? Boring -- at least have actual arguments please.

You demonstrated (1) incompetence and (2) lack of arguments. It doesn't help that you always happen to switch to personal remarks when you're insecure about what to say next. I am interested in technology, not random opinions. If you don't understand NXT and decentralised applications that's fine -- constantly posting incompetent propaganda is another story.

But go ahead, keep making yourself look like a clueless fool if you wish (unluckily attached to your real name). That's an interesting hobby but it's your perfect right to do so.

Why Proof of Scam (Po$) is a real socioeconomic dynamic  - its not a joke.


-----------------------UPDATE --------------------------
A word on Proof of Scam

Po$  ( Proof of Scam)  not to be confused with PoS (Proof of Stake) is a real thing, people like to joke but i'd like to explain why Proof of Scam is an actual socioeconomic dynamic;

Proof of Scam (Po$) can be broadly defined as anything outside the Random Proof of work distribution, to a degree that it is nearly in the centralized fiat groups of monetary systems, a key element is if as a replacement to the Random Proof of Work distribution you have instead , the "trust us" principal.

There can be other examples, and many may argue back and forth, for example if the PoW period is gregariously flawed a system may be contested to be Proof of Scam or a Proof of Scam allegation could be leveled.

Proof of Scam is a uniquely Crypto currency dynamic, it can not be used for fiat applications because fiat is not a "trust-less system".

so to make that clear and if you would like to visualize it; fiat centralized paper Debt issued money is in a  bubble of its own that can never be governed by a Random Proof of work system, or any other "trustless" system.

"Cryptocurrency" is then in its own group which can be split up then into all its other groups -

The (Proof of Scam) Po$ group

The Proof of Scam group can be generally defined as a group in which the "random proof of work" and thus the "trustless system" is so flawed, that it almost represents a centralized fiat system.

there are many examples = but the key points to take away are that if the PoW is flawed in a manner of distribution as to rely on the  "Trust us" " "its ok" system. the "crypto" can generally be confirmed to be Po$ or Proof of Scam.

-----------------------UPDATE --------------------------

*yawn*  ^^ Same question^^  :D :D :D you're boring us, if we wanted a ill informed monologue, we'd read your blog ;D  c'mon, you used to be interesting

Let's do the 'nothing at stake' bit  ;D it is better than the dead horse you're flogging as it has the appearance of legitimatcy at first glance. It is much more fun   :D :D

I have a favor to ask you, digi

Could you draw some price predicition charts of Nxt, for the scenario that everyone gets educated by your blog?

Don't hesitate to use downtrending arrows and red lines. Please, this would really make me happy!

no problem i'll do it right here; ready?:

you own it all so you will keep trading it back and forth between yourselves - you might sucker a few more idiots but that is about it, then just like Ripple one of the major holders (there is probably 5 or 7 of you) will sell or move on, the price will collapse and the tide will go out on the NXT Po$ system.

as long as you're out before then, its sweet sweet just like Wall st hangs on every word of the FOMC, if they "cash out" its "cya later cunt".

no lines needed.

see my rocket pic.

So, no price chart? I'm quite disappointed, thought you would try harder...

no one really gets hurt except...

oh the dupes that thought they were buying a "crytpocurrency".

Agreed. Nxt is not just a currency, but a crypto platform. It has many other applications besides a currency.

Thank you for pointing this out!

It's what makes Nxt so interesting compared to regular cryptocurrencies, like quark for example.

really ? you need a visual graph to tell you the obvious ? seriously ?

love the failed whole attempt at snotty little snarky trolling lol
if you do or don't like the coin.. maybe state your case ?
smart people are not convinced either by superfluous fanboyism for OR against any given coin.
you must appeal to peoples intelligence not their inner 4chan child hahha

guys trying to bully someone on the internet with forum trolling does not magically make your crappy coin awesome and legit.
all it ever seems like to me is kiddiots on the internet with a chip on their shoulder who are bag holding and want to defend their crap coin..
but they don't posses the intelligence to do it so they have no recourse but to try and divert conversions in frustration,
in an attempt to discredit a guy and derail the original assertion. (try holding your breath to get your way maybe ?)

And News Flash guys..
It does not matter if a guy was wrong 1,000x before if he says something that is rock solid and verified
then game over.
the crowd out there with a brain will see what is what and see straight through the childish little games and see what truly "is"
you guys convince virtually no one at all ever with all this crap your dump on here 24/7..
you guys spend suck immense amounts of time trying to fight people and cause little diversions and drama for nothing..
smart guys see straight through it all miles away *if they even bother to read your useless chearleading snotty brat retorts.

By all means keep it up..

Agreed.

Any shred of evidence for smart guys to independently verify? Maybe something from the blockchain that proves 90% is going through the same accounts? That would be indisputable. Or should I take you at your word?

Wait. I forgot,  you don't do evidence  :D :D ok, carry on  ;D

Haha, i feel like all those stupid threads are actually publicity for Nxt. There are a few % of those people who repeat their so called "facts" over and over without any proof.

If only a few readers question his statements and do their own reading, check out the Forum http://nxtforum.org/ (http://nxtforum.org/) and read about Nxt then it is a good thing

see my Blog on Po$ for clarification - http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/on-po-proof-of-scam-defining-the-rational-crypto-currency-exclusive-socioeconomic-dynamic/

Summary of Po$ or Proof of Scam.

Po$ can generally be best summarized as the “crossing over” of the trust less aspects of the Random Proof of Work distribution system into to a more fiat like  centralized “trust us”  monetary group.

in this the Po$ system generally relies on the “good will” and “good nature” of the human trusted distributors (a very key element of the fiat system), there is multiplying aspect to the Po$ system and that is that generally crypto currency is pseudo anonymous, so it could be generally stated that you are relying on the “good will” of anonymous distribution actors.

There are many examples, but the key points to take away are;

    if the (rPoW) Random Proof of Work is flawed in such a manner that distribution relies on the “Trust us” ” “its ok” system.
    the “One CPU One Vote” Principal is replaced by the “trust the anonymous person on the internet” principal.
    As long as it first qualifies as a “cryptocurrency”
    if it has a Block-chain

To be more concise – (Po$) Proof of Scam is still a Cryptocurrency by definition, because it still has a decentralized ledger and thus is grouped in the “cryptocurrency” group, however the key aspect of Cryptocurrency that is generally defined as “Random Proof of Work distribution”, that was defined and to all intents and purposes invented by “Satoshi” and best summed up in his/her comment as “One CPU one Vote”;

This key aspect is shifted from the traditional system of Random mechanics to a more centralized fiat monetary system, so some could contest that it is the worst parts of both systems merged, i.e the pseudo anonymity of cryptocurrency and digital currency combined with the centralized “trust us” ” we have good intentions” of the fiat system.

That is Proof of Scam (Po$) and it is not a joke at all.

Yup, its like free troll-powered publicity....

Anyhow, thought i'd try today to bring some sanity into the debate, instead of the endless 'NXT/PoS is a scam...Oh no it isn't' game we've been playing up til now.


Proof of Stake is going to be the future of a large section of the crypto world.
It has to be.....pretty soon (inside a couple of years) we are hopefully gonna see a lot of the financial world migrate to crypto. This means that we will need to have lots of blockchains running on a variety of devices and for a wide variety of applications (like BTC for high level transfer of big lumps of money, NXT for your investment portfolio/trading, DOGE to pay your kids their pocket money).
Sadly for this idea,  the current blockchain tech (ie Proof of Work) cannot run on most devices that people actually use day to day (ie smartphones/tablets)  and scales up quite badly in terms of energy use and processing power requirements on the machines that can support a PoW blockchain.
PoW is a brilliant idea, but it's not going to be enough in the long term to take crypto into the mainstream.

There will probably never be one universal crypto-currency or system, but one thing is very clear to me :
PoS works, and PoS is going to be essential to get universal adoption of crypto.  

So, do you want to take over the world with PoS, or stay in a crypto ghetto, feeding ever hungrier PoW mining rigs ?


Edit: Proof of Stake is centralised? LOL
You missed that by a mile, Di.
Proof of Work tends towards centralisation, not PoS. Lower hardware requirements = more nodes = less centralised.

Who would like some low cost hardware requirements? ....

https://i.imgur.com/oD7ZFsl.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/IeJk8Ka.jpg?1

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/small-announcement-pi-case-bling-nearly-ready/msg58259

That RaspPi case is so damn pretty....I want one.

Let me help you out.

You are assuming Nxt had value when it was released and that people cared about it. Both are false. Would you care if I realeased DunceCoin and gave it to you and 72 others? No. If you did some research in the original thread (I posted it), you would see that everyone uderstood that as long as Nxt was distributed to so few, it would never be successful or valuable.

So cue an slew of development bounties and giveaways to spread Nxt around, becasue it was in their own economic interest to do so.  Couple this with the promised features that were delivered (Alias System, Arbitrary Transactions, Asset Exchange), soon to be delivered promised features (Digital Good Store, Transparent Forging, Automated Transactions) and additional bonus features like Multigateway, Physical Goods Store and Multipool and Nxt becomes the most advanced cryptographic platform ever devised. And there is still Voting System, Monetary System, Judgement System and more planned for later in the year. As people became aware of what Nxt was doing and delivering, it attracted more and more people and reach a point were people were willing to pay for Nxt for a slice of a very compelling future that, every day, is becoming the present.

The so called 'bad distribution' quickly gave Nxt the biggest development warchest seen by any start up crypto and the economic incentive to give it away that enabled the best developers to come on board (and still continuing today) that have made all this possible IN ONLY 8 MONTHS.


But carry on informing us all with your educational thread  :D :D :D :D

Everyone else, there is more info on all these topics at nxtforum.org or just ask and I can point out any bits you are interested in  ;D

+10 to Daedelus

Just need to point out here (in full-on 'NXT is fracking brilliant' mode  ;D ) what an amazing achievement NXT pulled off with its start-up process.
We managed to bootstrap the entire system using a 21 BTC initial warchest and a shitload of hard work, taking it from zero to $62 million market cap inside 8 months, with no extra external financing, just organic growth.  

Compare this to recent crypto IPO's that have taken in huge amounts of BTC and produced very little to show for it......

Get on the NXT train, there's still some seats left:
www.nxtforum.org

DI has abandoned us and maybe even seems to be trying to distance his comments from Nxt  :-\

Still have no evidence beyond persistent assertion but you can keep up here if you are interested: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675248.msg7655083


DI also tweeted Nxt for feedback on his groundbreaking analysis  :D I don't think Nxt responded  (Come from beyond did) but you can see the reception here  :D:

https://twitter.com/Kolin_Quark/status/484463092533702656


I am posting this link in the hopes that the low impact of 4 retweets will improve and DI can get the attention he deserves  :D ;D

I love his blog....

"Be the first to like this......please"

And the Twitter power......apart from BTT, theres really not much point in engaging Di elsewhere, cos no-ones looking.
Oh yeah, we've got a date with a CoinDesk editor tomorrow....lets mention Di, see if we can get him some publicity.  ;)

In my experience, Emily suffers no fool!

I don't think you really understand what your talking about here. In particular, you've used a kind of warped logic to draw your readers to a slightly ludicrous comparison that likens POS to Fiat.

First of all, the "trust us" aspect of the fiat money system comes from centralised brokering of liquidity for debt through a counterparty infrastructure. This is nothing like crypto - whether POW or POS. You've confused the method of distribution with the method or creation.

For example, when the EU, the ECB and the IMF made huge loans to Greece through the European Financial Stability Facility, they created a large amount of fiat money which was levered up off a 20% capital base. Greece underwrote the 'value' of that new liquidity by signing a debtor agreement following which the money finds its way into the general economy. At that point, the fiat banking system are in a position of centralised trust from the holders of fiat currency, since if the debtors (Greece) default, the banks can no longer underwrite the currency's value even though they are the issuers.

Crypto, on the other hand is BASE MONEY. It is a valueless token of exchange, whether POW, POS or PO.....name your preferred algo. Instead of a debtor underwriting its value pre-emptively, the market does it through adoption. POW isn't the least bit different from POS in this respect - just because it's mined doesn't give it any value and in both cases there is no debt on the other side of the banking books and therefore no counterparty to broker that debt.

So your comparison is wild.

The only difference between POW and POS (in the case of NXT) is that one guy mined the whole damn currency supply and then used the market to distribute it instead of CPU cycles to distribute it. There are pro's and cons of this approach, but once it's "out there" it isn't much different from POW generated coins in its nature. With both approaches you end up with large holders because the number of people mining or trading crypto currencies is tiny. 73, 730 or 7300 makes no material difference to the ultimate outcome of distribution.

The real hypocrisy of this criticism of POS is that in the global scheme of things, POW is justifiably subject to all the same accusations. It's mined by a tiny group of people in the context of the global population and then dumped on markets and sold at multiples of its mining cost to unassuming speculators. Perhaps if you gave 50 MILLION people an ASIC and made sure they mined 1 second from launch, you might be on sounder ethical ground for your little crusade.

This is what I try to tell people!  New crypto's are launching and the dev's are bailing out as soon as they can sell for a profit.  I haven't seen another crypto community as organized and hard-working as the NXT community. 

I like you , i wrote a long response - but i wont post it at this time, i'd rather explain it to a large audience.

however i can break down your argument simply;

- you don't understand what "money" is.
- the trust element in a fiat system relates to the people that are working in a productive capacity, you ironically refer to Greece, how are the people doing there at the moment? ha ha. (back to you)
- since posting here I refined the explanation on the blog to more clearly explain Po$ Proof of Scam, to try to save some of this confusion.  http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/on-po-proof-of-scam-defining-the-rational-crypto-currency-exclusive-socioeconomic-dynamic/ (http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/on-po-proof-of-scam-defining-the-rational-crypto-currency-exclusive-socioeconomic-dynamic/) - word press said it was getting quite a bit of attention i'm not sure what that means?
- i think i have repeated my self a bit and so will further review.
- (Po$) is not (PoS) you have referred to PoS many times i can't see the relevance?
- (Po$) is not a fiat system as the document clearly states so i can't see your relevance here (Po$) clearly borrows the "trust" element that is related to distribution in the same and similar  manner that fiat systems institute a "human trust" element for the control of ALL the aspects of issuance and supply.*

* but thank you for helping me clarify that.


great comment and nails it! - so in essence the one guy that mined the "whole damn currency supply" shifted the "One cpu one vote" "Trustless" random distribution system to a "trust us" or in this case if it really was one guy, "trust me" I will distribute this to the market by selling it at a "fair market value" - but then made his own exchange and  again said  "Trust me" "i own it all but this volume is "normal market volume" that is bidding up this  "fair market value".

: D

don't get me wrong, Po$ is still ahead of a system that has literally no block-chain like "Ripple." - why? well because when the tide goes out on NXT (i.e see my other comments) and it goes to less than a fraction of a cent ( your stated Base money value) as education moves into the market, then it will slosh around as a "dead scamcoin" ( not my words) and IF PoS proof of stake isn't completely flawed. it might have market value far in the future.

its just not a very good model - don't take it personally.


absolutely not - you are completely wrong but i will explain at a later date., because this relates to Crypto decentralized economic complexities.

- oh btw way i did advocate a model like that (the 50 million ASIC)  for a "government distributed crypto, that broadly adhered to "neutral control.  - its a rushed and messy document but here it is :

http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1512/understanding-neutral-control-principal-government (http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1512/understanding-neutral-control-principal-government)

Here's an example from your blog:

In the section named "Summary of Po$ or Proof of Scam", this quote: "in this the Po$ system generally relies on the “good will” and “good nature” of the human trusted distributors".

The question is, FOR WHAT ? For what does the PO$ system rely on the "good will" and :good nature" of the human trusted distributors ?

For making sure that the currency is properly distributed ? Is that all you mean ?

Ah - your fundamental misunderstanding of decentralized economics.

the traditional models don't apply, and not just in a "oh it only matters a little bit"  way..

in a "write it off its dead, and will never be viable" type way.

i will be happy to explain it to you, but back to our point of "the guy mines it all himself and then bids it up himself to then peddle it off to the "market""

If the traditional model is correct, (and you are correct) then there is no problem NXT will be a huge success right?

and everything i say won't matter so this whole conversation is redundant because it doesn't matter if the "market" knows "one guy mined it all made an exchange bid it up and is now peddling it off at "market" value" 

if you are correct that all doesn't matter.


if i'm correct ( and your model is wrong) the NXT tide will go out (as i said) and take some poor suckers with it.


I will leave that there and let you see if you can figure out what is missing from the equation .

http://cryptoanalytics.trade/NXT/

unless that link sucks me into a dimension fork and i reappear on the other side as the same person but in a reality where this;
 

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=1000&blk=2680262203532249785
   
BLOCK    :   2680262203532249785
Timestamp   :   24.11.2013 13:00:00
Height   :   0
Next Block   :   6556228577102711328
Previous Block   :   0
Pay Load Length   :   9344 B
Num. Transactions   :   73
Total Fee   :   0
Base Target   :   100.00 %
Total Amount   :   1,000,000,000 NXT
Generator Account   :   1739068987193023818
Generator RS    :   NXT-MRCC-2YLS-8M54-3CMAJ
Version   :   -1
Perma Link   :   Show
Block SIgnature : 69d426c498b70ac6d1678180356527c1fee030ad732fbf7672c2266d166a4c08cf8fdeb4524fd1b 496bbcaab03fa6e67760f6da452251402249015486c487211
Generation Signature : 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Previous Block Hash : n/a
Payload Hash : 72c8a92efffbd8695a866eabb13ca460a2f7cdf3283b82efb163360d6eec9469

didn't happen.

is there a fucking point?

i mean come on, just stop... for your own sake?  you don't get it , information hurts you.

Jeez, for an "educator" you really do write one load of guff.

I don't know if you even understand it yourself or just make it up as you go along, but if there was ever any real debate here, you lost it a long time ago.

Thanks for explaining to us all clearly how it's precisely a Ponzi scheme ROFL
Your statement here shouts loudly to anyone reading with half a brain why they should stay away.. congrats on doing the work for the critics  ;D
Your hilarious and not too bright lol

edit:
@digitalindustry
Well said earlier.. you have given fair and serious thought to this stuff i see and agree 100% with your assertions.. not sure how anyone couldn't actually.

So lots of posturing later and we haven't move beyond

"Nxt distribution was 'bad' and I don't care what has happened in the last 8 months"

Listen to yourselves, acknowledge at least to yourselves Nxt has created features and services that the world has never seen before. And you think this adds no value? You think people can't check it isn't fabricated? You think it is all just a couple of guys trading the price around?  :D :D again, where is this in the blockchain?

LoL...well, to a miner I suppose it might constitute "serious thought"  :D

This is your definitive guide on scams and a break down of the different types with special mention about NXT.

It did happened a lot. people started losing their valets alto they had extreme strong passwords.

Please, could you provide 1 single case where a Nxt user lost his wallet with an "extremely strong password"? (That he didn't store in plaintext in his unprotected dropbox like kLee for example)

Your quote has to contain the password. Quotes like "I think my password was really strong" don't count.