Bitcoin Forum

BitShares looks like VERY promising technology not sure about the ipo tho

what do u think brothers and sisters? :)

~CfA~

Biggest troll on Bitcointalk is advising people to get in, smh

Hi newbie account,  if u have nothing productive to say thats ok but please dont spam the topic with nonsense.

Thank u

Hilarious how your behavior completely changed all of the sudden while you have been trolling and pissing people off as a hobby at Bitcointalk

Bitshares are one of the hottest topics right now, at least as a number of threads go.
 I knew it is just a matter of time before we see thread from the one and only

  C~o~A  !!!

 :D

Who's going to buy it after launch?

Well that's it, really, isn't it? It sounds like a great investment, but have any companies actually pledged to use it? Do many companies even know about it?

It doesn't matter one iota that there's a lot of investor interest if there's next to no business interest.

Total IPO    5,468.31854053 BTC    (3,399,052.12160804 USD)

Total IPO   395,376.59786254 PTS  (1,723,841.96668067 USD)

TOTAL BTC+PTS -------> 5.12 million USD.
 :o :o
to the stars and beyond!

~CfA~

So what exactly is it ?

http://bitshares.org/

the site is very messy, can someone tell me how to buy/ where to buy/ and what is the current ratio ?

It needs to attract investors more than businesses. It's offering a bank and an exchange. The exchange using collateralized postions lets people hold BitUSD, BitGold etc. on a blockchain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g (They call it BitShares in the video but that is all part of BitShares X, the whole ecosystem which includes a lot of businesses is called BitShares now.)

Many people don't want the variance of crypto-currencies and a lot of businesses working on tight margins can't afford not to exit straight to fiat even if they offer Bitcoin purchases. 'If' the peg holds then the businesses will come.

I agree they need to do a better job marketing and also putting into a customer friendly front end that has a format traders would be familiar with.

I think the comments by 100+ post members here 'What is it?' - 'The site is quite mess' etc. those are the things they need to work on.

In their defence they're starting a whole new ecosystem of businesses so it can be hard.  

My first thought was also: what is it?

That is becouse we get some difficult things trown at our heads of which we don't even know what is is, at least explain your project so everyone can understand, you know?

The first main DAC is BitShares X - The Bank & Exchange.

It is built on their new DPOS blockchain. Both version 1.0 of the new blockchain and BitShares X are currently running well on a testnet.
Shares for these were allocated in an IPO that ended on 28/02/2014. (They were allocated 50% to holders of PTS and 50% to people who donated to AGS (How BitShares got their funding.)

Bter & BTC38 let people keep their PTS on the exchange and said they would honour the BitShares X allocation when it was launched.
A few days ago they started letting people buy and sell their allocations on their exchanges but obvioulsy if you buy BTSX now, you have to trust the exchange and you can't withdraw them as there is no BTSX wallet yet.

https://bter.com/trade/btsx_btc

Currently it is trading at a market valuation of 34 000 BTC which means imo people who donated who bought at the late stages of the IPO are actually in loss territory now, which isn't great, considering how long they've had their money tied up in crypto-terms. (To make it even more confusing Bter and BTC38 are working off a base of 4 Miilion units when there will now be 2 Billion - so it means the amounts you buying on the exchange will be muliplied by 500 to get the same % allocation.)

It could be an opportunity to grab a bargain though depending on how you feel about the concept and whether you can evaluate how their testnet is going.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5523.0            

- I think they're running 10 second block times at the moment, pretty impressive. They have this comparison chart (which is a work in progress) of the DPOS blockchain system. Though I've heard NXT say it is BitShares biased. I also don't like that they haven't put a transaction fee though my understandiing is it is >10X cheaper than all competitors except XRP but that's a centralised system.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/images/5/5f/POS_Table_comparison_smaller.png

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F

Yeah, I think the technology though is really game changing the main guy Daniel Larimer is a genius imo, great economic sense as well, real visionary, I back him 100%. He just can't do all the things all the time. So I think areas like marketing are letting them down a bit though they are taking steps to address them, I've seen a big improvement in the last month.

Their FAQ is pretty good http://bitshares.org/faq/ as well as the BitShares Wiki http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page

BitShares X


Right now they are working on version 1.0, it is running well on a testnet, it will be released 'shortly'  with limited features

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0   (Dry run 8: Need for speed)


BitShares in general http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/What_is_BitShares%3F



* AGS donations only have 9 days left of 200 day donation period. http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

There a few snapshots/IPOS that will honour PTS that will be announced as soon as the new blockchain system is running I believe
BitShares Music, BitShares.P2P & BitShares Lotto are the main ones.

This a 2.5 min of some of the guys behind/working on it.  http://vimeo.com/98988328

+10 for those sharing the info on a potentially very good investment.  I've been interested in looking at BitShares but I hesitated mainly because it seemed very complex and I wanted to give it time to sink in.  I look forward to checking out the links posted in this thread and just generally learning more about the IPO.  Thanks for the heads up and details folks.  :)

BTS  my day

I agree, thanks for the info guys. Bitshares is one of those investments that has a steep learning curve, but if you get over the complexity, it might actually be one of the big movers in 2015!

i would, should, could but i won't.

why not?

I agree, this is probably the biggest thing ever after the birth of Bitcoin. This could potentially be bigger than Bitcoin.

I'm interested in shares in the bitshares bank but its too late for that. Maybe ill pick some bank shares when it goes on the market. I also don't think bitshares has features which are significantly better than its close competitors.

You can purchase shares at bter.com and btc38.com. BitShares X is trading under the symbol BTSX. The order depth is very thin, however since these are only a small subset of the total share supply. If you are looking to capture a large stake, I would advise waiting for the official launch. However if you are looking to get a small position it might be wise to get in on these early deals.

As far as your assumption that bitshares does not have better features than its close competitors you are indeed misinformed. Block interval is 10 seconds. Block confirmation is 1 block (confirmation at 1 block using BitShare's Delegated Proof of Stake (DPOS) is more secure than 6 block confirmation with bitcoin). The network can currently handle 10 TPS (DPOS will allow the network to scale up in the future to visa tps). BitShares allows users to create accounts that are stored on the blockchain so you do not have to send to a cryptographic public key, but instead are sending to names. Transactions automatically generate unique stealth address, which makes all transfers from accounts anonymous. There are more features in the pipeline but those are the features that have already been implement and tested for the past month. You can get a better sense of the comparative value of the BitShares platform at http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F.

screw ipo, we buy the coins cheaper at the open market if we want them, like always.

This is another copywrighting coin with a grand IPO.  This is a Mastercoin 2.0.

Does anyone think this will work out?  A lot of these copywrighting coins end up being ponzi schemes ran by wealthy investors who are begging subsequent investors (bagholders) to come in to buy their coin and it almost never works as nobody wants to contribute to a get quick rich scheme.

The people who invested into Mastercoin (which had a huge PR campaign and a huge developer team) would had made more money buying Doge, NxT and other coins.  The same is true for Maidsafe, all the balloons who bought Maidsafe would had made way way way more money off Darkcoin.

it is less risky to buy coins after the official launch. You might be passing up on some great bargains tho

I was going to buy some but if the OP is in, im out :)

Just kidding I already have some from the PTS snap shot I mined about a 150 of them in a few days and got 1.3*150... I guess times that by 500x because they increased the supply from 4 shmill to 2 bill?

Funny coming from you the biggest NEM fanboy of them all, promoting your own get rich quick scheme.

In regards to Maidsafe, i was following them before they even considred adding safecoins to the network, i am interested in the technology and the implications it has on the future of privacy. There technology and time in the business of decentralization is unmatched. There is no spurt of emotion that will change that fact.

If your interested in only profit, maybe start making your own coins so you can pump and dump them, its not very hard.

+1


Yup.

You can't believe in bitcoin and in decentralization and not supporting or understand bitshares...

If bitcoin doesn't fail, bitshares is going to be HUGE!!!

With all the money they have collected they still have to release any actual working software. Bishares X? Keyhotee? Bitshares DNS?

With all the money collected, I have a small feeling it'll be the next Maidsafe instead of Bitcoin

The source is out on github.  The team of developers is public and not anonymous people on the internet. 

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Videos_and_Audio (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Videos_and_Audio)  Is a great place if you want to see the development team. 

IMO it is a lot more like NXT than either Mastercoin or Counterparty.  Both of which have to piggyback on Bitcoin and face the inherent limitations.

The source code has a public testnet that is quite active.  The initial release is soon which will make BTSX liquid.

The "IPO" aka donation period has been going on for 198ish days now.  It wasn't a flash sale.

Do they? They have the money. Now, it is up to them. Nobody can force them to do anything. They can decide the pace of the development.

Guess what was just released..  ;D

Get ready for the price spike. All the naysayers are going to have a change of heart once they try it.

Just tried transfering some funds.. So smooth already, takes less than 10 sec for a full confirmation.. That breaks the barrier of feeling immediate transfers.. I know from experience people get annoyed waiting for the elevator if it takes more than 15 seconds.

Once exchanges etc. are up to speed and people start efficiently voting for Delegates, this will explode.

I'm loving the speed and having cool account names instead of huge public addresses. (How cool is it that you can just say send funds to a name! So much better for businesses, charities, marketing etc.)

I got bored looking at it. If there is a reason for it to exist, I certainly did not grasp it, and the complexity bothered me too.

I'll pass.

Exactly what many people STILL say about bitcoin  ;D

And bitcoin is still an extremely small part of the market.

But at least with bitcoin, I instantly saw the utility. Even before I had a client or understood it.
It was cash for the Internet, easy to understand.

I just don't see the utility of this, what it will do for me.

What will it do for me?

Frankly because CfA is pumping it. I realize that at over 5,000 BTC in donations his effect on it is very little but I don't want to get involved in anything that this guy may potentially cause drama over.

I already bought my AngelShares though so I'd prefer if CfA just f'ed off instead.

Complexity? Have you ever seen a website that looked as simple as that? http://bitshares-x.info/

The wallet is easy to set up, the account name feature makes it so much easier than using public keys all the time & it has 10 second confirmation times, could it be simpler or faster?

The awesome 'reason for BitShares X to exist' is coming in an upgrade in a few weeks - 'Market pegged BitAssets' - You'll be able to trade BitUSD, BitGold etc. on a blockchain! Not just some sh*tty user issued assets where you have to trust the issuer like every other system, no BitShares X by using 'high collateral required' short positions, prediction markets & minimum market depth requirements, X is going to have derivative assets that track the value of real world counterparts. Can you see the reason for that?  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.msg7778449#msg7778449

The question is what WONT it do for you, bra.  8)

No but in all seriousness, this is the same idea behind Skynet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29), more or less. Except this one will be created directly by the public instead of the military so perhaps it won't turn evil so quickly.

It's not installing that is complex.
It's the system itself.

It seems to take what is currently simple and adds a layer of complexity which always worries me. I like things to be KISS. less likely for me to end up scammed because I didn't fully understand some aspect of it.


Trading platforms that are not regulated I only use in very small quantities. And trading platforms are highly likely to come under federal regulation.
Technically all are suppose to be, you deposit or withdraw certain values and FinCEN needs to be notified.

How does Bitshares handle that, and what protection do I have from money laundering laws if it doesn't do the necessary reporting and I use the system?

I like what they've done with DPOS personally, still getting into the whole voting thing.

Not sure about the legality it's a good question, I would be concerned with that too, my understanding is that prediction markets are treated differently but I can't find the relevant thread atm.

Oh here it is https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2623.0

is therre any time left?

If you want to get BitShares X (The bank & exchange) it's released already and trading on bter and BTC38, you can see it listed on Coinmarketcap.com at no. 8

The bad news is you missed the IPO (Donating) thing they had which ended on 28/02/14, the good news is it's cheaper now to buy than people were paying during the IPO.


(To get access to other BitShares Dac's coming up you buy BitShares-PTS)

Didn't DPR Ross Ulbricht's lawyer try to use that argument and the judge struck it down, stating it functioned like money?

I have a question about BitUSD

Remember the Liberty Dollar?


That's what brought down the Liberty Dollar.

- from 18 U.S.C. § 486

Since BitUSD is suppose to be equivalent to the US Dollar, have you had lawyers look over case history such as Liberty Dollar and explain how it will not be seen as counterfeiting to the US Government? Has the US Government been consulted?

I'm wondering if BitShares will be declared illegal in the United States.

So today, is it better to buy Bitshares-PTS or BItshares-X? I have just spent a few hours reading about both and think I am more confused than when I started..  :D

If I understand correctly, Bitshares-PTS is the sort of 'base' asset which gives you potentially a small part of any futures DACs..

Buy both is the correct answer.  PTS will give you shares in future projects such as DNS, voting, gaming, and music.  PTS has already granted people shares in BTSX, LottoShares, and memory coin.

BitScam IPO.

Why gotta premine? Just let the free-market work... ::)

Premine?  Please explain.

All shares were allocated to people who either held PTS during the snapshot or those who donated to AGS.  When you step back this allowed people who did not have the technical knowledge how to "mine" thus opened investing up to anyone.  Quite frankly this is a much better method to IPO a coin which you can now let the free market work.


Due diligence on BTSX

Let's talk Bitcoin! episode 129.  Starts around 12 minute mark with the lead dev Dan.  Great listen.
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-129-dogeparty-and-delegated-proof-of-stake

Titan
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN

DPOS algorithm
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DPOS

Last but not least the market based trading, think bitUSD, bitGold, bitSilver etc...
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares_X

Mining is not a basis for fair distribution imo. Long IPO's with equal, low barriers to entry are. I'd rather buy from shareholders who actually took a risk and invested in the company than predatory miners who don't care about the company & just compete to see who can waste the most electricity for the least amount of money. (Usually the richest and most centralised wins)  

Also you don't need any shares to make money in DPOS. Delegates get voted for by shareholders and a talented delegate doesn't even need a single cent to his name, if they team up with someone who has a computer and they can convince shareholders they'd be good for the company they can be elected and start earning money from fees and equity release.  

The time of wealthy miners taking excess value from users, using inflation (of up to 12% a year in Bitcoin)  is coming to an end I believe.  I think inflation is kind of sneaky because for the average person it's hard to tell how much of his value the miners are taking. If you had 10 BTC and the miners took 1 BTC every year, people would feel a lot more how wasteful and expensive mining is.

Rephrasing Monty Python here - Power derives from a mandate from the masses not some farcical electricity wasting ceremony.


https://i.imgur.com/GsLE8a2.jpg

(Got the image from the main founder of BitShares https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6085.msg83038#msg83038)

Using mining to allocate shares (coins if you'd like to call them that) is not letting the free market work it is simply creating barriers to access that don't need to be there. It is a method of giving individuals something for nothing, which is probably the antithesis of the free market process.  

+1 & I'd even say it's worse than giving them something for nothing, as Bytemaster said in the thread I linked to above, mining actually gives them something in exchange for making society poorer.


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6085.msg83038#msg83038

Okay the logic in those last post pretty much seal the deal for me.

It's a scam with slick talkers trying to suck money out of whales.

First of all, BitUSD is a digital currency. The statute that you cited has nothing to do with digital assets.

It is important to understand that all centralized, private currencies have been brought down by virtue of the fact that they are centralized and the government can use its monopoly on violence and force to squash any attempts to compete with fiat currencies. Bitcoin was the first private currency that governments could not take down because it is both decentralized and digital - BitShares as well as BitUSD share these same properties. Just like with Bitcoin there is no central point of control or failure that the government can exploit to shut BitShares down. Whether or not they make it illegal is pretty irrelevant, since they can't shut it down.

Please explain the nature of the "scam" in your opinion.

A judge can decide otherwise.
They have the power to interpret intent of the law.

Simple, you get lots of people to buy your bitshares before it all crumbles.

Mining has a very important purpose - that purpose is to keep control over the network de-centralized. That's basic, and that's what they are paid for.

To try and frame it as a worthless drag on society, getting something for nothing, is slick talk.

Give a listen to Let's talk Bitcoin! episode 129.  Starts around 12 minute mark with the lead dev Dan.  This should help clear up some idea's around the BitShares platform.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-129-dogeparty-and-delegated-proof-of-stake

What you cited is specifically about metals and could not be interpreted in any other way...

What is decentralized about Ghash.io having more than 50% of the Bitcoin hashing power?

If the purpose of mining is to keep control of the network de-centraalized, then it has failed. Haven't you been watching the rise of giant mining farms and massive mining pools.

My Block Eruptors that I paid good Btc for a little while after they came out are pretty well useless (as were the cards before them).

Mining is an ineffective and resource wasteful way of securing a blockchain.  

M

Do you understand the meaning of intent?

I agree, ASICs that hashed sha256 didn't exist.

Complex proof of work solves that problem.
At least for now.

No, I've never seen that word before. But answer me this, why was that clause you cited not used to shut down Bitcoin? What would make the government all of a sudden decided that they needed or even could shut down the voluntary exchange of digital currencies?

Bitcoin didn't pretend to be USD - BitUSD even has USD in the name.

With all the money going in to your IPO, if you haven't had a lawyer look over the legalities and write on it, then you have a management problem.
That kind of money needs lawyers.

Mining does consume vast resources for little social benefit so it is not slick talk in my opinion. Your counter that 12% inflation and massive resource waste is needed to keep control of the network de-centralised is false imo too.

DPOS decentralises the network to up to 101 unique delegates, that are voted for by users, all for the cost of fees and no inflation.
Decentralisation is a means not an end.  (Personally I would choose a 101 Shareholder voted delegate system over 1000+ unknown miners who get control of the system just by buying equipment and 101 trusted validators is much cheaper and can validate quicker too.)

Having said that you make some interesting points about the legal side. I've kind of treated it like Bitcoin up to now. Will have to see how that plays out.

However the reason BitShares won't crumble is that if an incident happens where new developers are required, shareholders will vote for delegates who direct their fees towards towards paying other developers. (Future DAC's will also make use of equity release too)

People will soon be able to decide if they want an expensive system of unknown miners that charge them 12% a year + fees with painfully slow to validate transactions or if they want a system with no inflation that's super fast with trusted delegates. (The added advantage being shareholder voted validators can be used to direct funds in the best interest of shareholders too.) The market will decide.

Aside from founding CoDA (http://www.coda.co/) the legal advisor to the BitShares team is Andy Beal (http://www.crowleystrategy.com/#!andy-beal/c10fp).

But legality aside, you clearly don't understand money or banking. Any USD that is not a physical dollar is a pretend USD. More than 95% of of the money supply is merely digits on computer screens recorded as debt. All these digital dollars are IOUs and banks are using a fraudulent system of fractional reserve banking to create USD out of thin air without adequately collateralizing them. If the government wants to shut down the first bank that is fully transparent, self regulated and uses a 200% reserve system as opposed to a 10% reserve system, let them. The people in the countries that appreciate this innovation will be far better off.

That benefit is de-centralized control over the network.

That's of little benefit to people who want power over the network.

-=-

Maybe I don't understand banking - as I said, I like things KISS because then I can't get scammed because there was some detail I did not properly understand.

As I said, this appears to be un-necessary complexity to meet a need that I don't have.

I can trade without needing yet another currency that is used as collateral for fake assets that represent real assets.

The complexity of this system is not something I think is safe for me nor needed for me.

You want it to streamline your playing day trader, that's fine - but it is definitely not another bitcoin.

Bitcoin has utility everyone can use, everyone can understand - it is digital cash.

This on the other hand doesn't seem to.

If your purpose in crypto-currencies is to trade them around trying to make a buck, maybe it has utility, but if your purpose in crypto-currencies is to trade them around and make a buck, then it is just a shell game to increase your fiat and that's not why I'm into crypto.

So this has no utility for me, none whatsoever. And I wouldn't be surprised if this had legal trouble, like it or not regulation of exchanges is coming (and actually is already here), if this doesn't comply then it definitely has absolutely no utility for me.

What level of decentralisation are you aiming for and why?

Once you achieve the goals of decentralisation you're just adding expense, slowing down the network and consuming resources unnecessarily.  



You can if you trust centralised entities.

Those who control the flow of money have the power.
Decentralization puts that power in the hands of we the people, not the 1%

I'm looking for as much decentralization as I can get, because as we can see with what ASICs and mining pools have done with bitcoin, keeping decentralization is a constant fight.

Yes that's what I'm saying - if you want to trade commodities, stocks and currencies currently you need to trust centralised entities.

So while you may not see the value in trading via 'a currency that is used as collateral for fake assets that represent real assets.'

We the people, not the 1%, do see that value.

I'm glad you can acknowledge that it is a constant fight that is why you should appreciate DPOS. 


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6102.msg81499#msg81499

Well I wish you luck.

My experience is the more complexity, the greater the odds of a hack and/or scams that take advantage of mis-understandings.

And it looks overly-complex to me, and difficult to comply with trading regulations.

Especially things like TITAN which allegedly make it un-traceable. I don't think FinCEN will like that.

Cool. Thanks for the interesting discussion. 

Darkwallets, mixing services, coinjoin,shared send...........these things are all ready here. Much like the fact that diamonds can be a reasonable untraceable way to move large amounts of money. Lets not also forget uncle sams greenbacks, which if not declared are a great way to move large amounts of currency un-traceable y. 

Fact is I doubt FinCEN was pro bitcoin or any kind of "digital commodity" but once a crowd gets large enough it is hard to ignore and thus it is better to try to regulate what you can not fight. Criminals will be criminals no matter what the technology or the means that they will use.

I respect the fact that you aren't interested but to call a wonderful new piece of technology a scam because it doesn't KISS is a bit silly.

You're still confused, which is OK. Most people don't understand BitShares when they first learn about it. It's not actually complicated, although it may appear so. BitSharesX is decentralized p2p bank and exchange. The network has its own currency (most accurately described as equity) BTSX. BTSX is a crypto currency with all the same properties of Bitcoin. The difference (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F) is simply in the functionality of the network which allows you to transfer BTSX to anyone on the network anonymously within 10 seconds (block intervals are 10 seconds, and 1 block confirmation is more secure than 6 block confirmations with Bitcoin). Additionally, the network allows you to register accounts on the blockchain so there is a public directory of names that you can send to instead of sending BTSX to cryptographic public keys (public key cryptography is still used under the hood, but it is automated which allows for greater ease-of-use, and most importantly greater security). This is the current state of BitSharesX which was officially launched on July 19th. Future iterations will incorporate the market features, which allows for users to have accounts denominated in essentially whatever asset they want. Instead of thinking in terms of trading and markets think about like this. Average users who like the idea of digital currencies but do not want to be subject to their volatility can now use digital currencies that maintain the purchasing power of a desired asset. So if you have a 100 bitUSD there is someone else on the network that is essentially guaranteeing that whenever you want to convert your crypto to fiat you will have enough BTSX to get 100 USD (real USD). People that understand the implications of decentralized crypto currencies can thereby take on the short term volatility of the networks currency in order to accrue greater long term gains (if the price of the BTSX rises relative to USD, then not only do you get a gain from the increase in price but you also get more BTSX than you started off with, since it now takes less BTSX to back the 100 bitUSD).

I hope that clears things up a little bit. If not at the very least, download the BitSharesX client from bitshares-x.info and I will send you some BTSX to test out the system.

as soon as OP sells I will buy... on the premise that he/she is always wrong since he/she is a noob unless he/she gets lucky which I dont count on... so OP just tell us when you sell so I can buy ok? thx

The way I currently see Bitshares and why I'm trying to work on "fair DPOS" clone:

I've done some reading of their forums.

I don't think it is for me, but I do confess the short selling features are tempting to try.

I do however retract my scam accusation.

I don't think this is for me, not now anyway, but I was wrong to make that accusation.

Funnily OP was claiming it a scam coin a few weeks ago but he changed his mind once he looked into it a bit more which I respect.


AliceWonder who's perhaps smarter/credible, also suggested it was a scam, till he/she looked into it more, it's still not for him which is cool. But I respect and thank him for retracting that statement.


I think the answer sidujag is to look into it more & come to your own decision.

I personally think the allocation model was pretty fair, there was a long donation period that raised thousands of BTC via AGS, and you could also get shares by owning PTS on the day of snapshot which is POW. (If it was really short and only raised 21 BTC, I would agree more, though I actually own NXT.)

I'm not a fan of mining as a form of distribution but if that rocks your boat, BitShares-PTS is POW and is still being mined.
(For stakes in future DAC's, when the date is announced, you can buy BitShares-PTS & hold it in your wallet on the date of the 'snapshot'.)

Also unlike the other 2.0 projects out there, BitShares is not trying to create one currency/blockchain to rule them all.

So if you have a better distribution model you are encouraged to apply it on your own DPOS blockchain. The only request if you want their support and endorsement is to honour the social consensus, which is awarding 10% equity to BitShares-AGS & 10% to BitShares-PTS.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_Social_Consensus

It was a nice shilling attempt, but my real quote is below:

But why would any of the devs do that if they are producing open source software...? Reputation is everything, which is why Dan and the rest of Invictus Innovation had to handle the process with the utmost transparency and fairness. If you can prove that the devs were unfair in their allocation of equity, then perhaps your clone can succeed.

So buying BTSX is like buying shares in Bitshares?

BTSX = BitShares. 

BTSX is a DAC(Decentralized Autonomous Company) developed by BitShares. Bitshares will aid in the development of many future DACs.

PTS would be like buying shares in BitShares. In which case PTS will give you X% equity in all future DACs that honor PTS.

Equity in future DACs such as:

Bitshares DNS
Bitshares Voice
Bitshares Music
Bitshares Bingo
Bitshares Me
& more

Yes BTSX is the bank & exchange DAC so if you like the sound of their bank & exchange business model buy BTSX. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.msg7778449#msg7778449

If you download the wallet you can see it's pretty cool, you can send anonymously and use account names like 'Superman' - if it hasn't already been registered - instead of long public keys, the transactions are also confirmed in 10 seconds. So it's already better than the other alts, but the thing that really makes it special is being added sometime in a few weeks, BitAssets.

If you like some of the businesses megashira has listed above, buy BitShares-PTS. (BitShares will announce a 'snapshot' date for each of the DAC's and as long as you hold your PTS in your wallet on the date of the snapshot you will be awarded shares in those new companies you can claim by importing your wallet when that DAC is released (Even if you have since sold the PTS.)

Feel free to ask about anything you're not clear on or visit their forums - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php

http://i62.tinypic.com/2u5x1sm.jpg

I found this picture helpful when I first started learning about DAC's. 

BitShares will not succeed for a variety of reasons. The main being its much to complicated for the average user. Thats all there is to it, 99% of the world wouldn't understand how BitShares works, and they aren't going to take the time to learn how. Bitcoin is a simple concept. Internet money. Done.

Odds are this completely falls apart within the next several months.

99% of the world doesn't understand how bitcoin works.  Its enough if they can learn how to use it.  Have you played with the wallet?  Its still early, but I think its well designed and intuitive.  With some of the planned upgrades such as confirmed registration of email addresses, it will be much less daunting for beginners than bitcoin currently is. 

It doesn't matter if the developer didn't do it, all that matters is that IPO offers a backdoor of letting the developer get an infinite premine since all BTC sent for the IPO go back to himself anyway.  Even if he didn't do it, he can't prove that he didn't do it, and there's no reason for anyone to take his word for it.  This is why ALL IPOs are inherently doomed to fail.  Even if you did an escrow, how do we know the dev and escrower aren't colluding?  Everything about the IPO is a scam ridden concept.

With a proper IPO, investor identity would be disclosed at least to a third party for legal reasons (in many countries at least) such as the professional escrow handling it.

I don't know (or care) how BitShares is doing it, but many of the IPOs on these forums do not appear to be doing it in such a way that there is trusted independent validation of the IPO and that does possibly pose some legal problems.

It is possible to do it right.

Why does the world need to understand how it works? All they need to understand is how to use it. The majority don't understand the underpinnings of google, facebook, twitter, even the USD but they all still use it.

Well for anything that people are using they are expected to at least know a little bit how it works otherwise they could be supporting a malicious act etc you should always try to fully understand what you are using and why you are using it.

Can we still invest here or it is finished?

Who's expecting who to know? You think the US GOV wants people understanding how the USD works? Could be supporting malicious acts is exactly right.

You think Facebook wants people understanding there business model? Google?

Bitshares doesn't fall into these categories but as long people know the benefits of the product they don't REALLY need to understand how it works, only that it works.

 

Who ensures bitUSD and bitGOLD are worth as much as USD's and GOLD? Is there some centralized entity that ensures the prices?

No, there's no centralised party, it's backed by BTSX as collateral.

This video kind of explains the process from 4:00 to about 9:00  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g)

How & when can you convert your angel share IPO payment into Bitshares? Has that been announced yet?

Fixed it for ya  ;D

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_X_Solutions#How_to_move_AGS.2FPTS_into_BTSX

anyone who is interested in this project should now check the price at bter and btc38. it got much cheaper then in the beginning.

[url]http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx]http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx][url]http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx (http://[url=http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx)[/url]

So I'm new here, but correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to "cash out" on a potential investment of Bitshare what you do is trade it for Bitcoin which can be cashed out for real money or gold?

Trade it for BTC and do with it what you will. BTC is real money. IF you mean FIAT money, than yes.

Thanks, and where is the standard place where people purchase Bitshare from?

The first DAC(Decentralized Autonomous Company) released by Bitshares was BTSX (Bitshares X Bank and Decentralized Exchange) .. It is currently trading at https://bter.com/trade/btsx_btc

If you want in on that DAC you can buy BTSX, if you want in on FUTURE DACs released BY Bitshares you will need to purchase PTS.. https://bter.com/trade/pts_btc

More information regarding Bitshares, BTSX, PTS, and future DACs can be found here: http://bitshares.org/

http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx

https://bter.com/trade/BTSX_BTC

Reached bottom at 15 million, now let us see how high it bounces :D

If I deposited bitshares pts during the funding period, how do I claim my bitshares ags? I noticed they gave a claim form for those who deposited bitcoins, but didn't see one for pts depositers. Thanks.

Claim from Bitcoin and BitShares-PTS - the same procedure.
Please check the manual: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares-x-how-to
Last step in this manual - import Bitcoin/BitShares-PTS wallet.

anyone else who bought Angelshares having trouble importing a private key into the Bitshares X wallet?

I swear I remember reading about how to do it with a blockchain.info address but I can't find that site anymore.

Why do you need to raise more than 5million for this project?

Check here: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_X_Solutions#I_have_some_keys_in_blockchain.info._How_do_import_them_into_the_BitsharesX_wallet.3F

This is really funny coming from a TROLL    ;D

I guess you don't mind it if I post the private messages you've been sending me then and then all can see what a troll you are.  :'(

Wow, you went right off the deep end. Pretty original stuff, your comments (that you posted in 12 different threads I commented on -- who is the troll again?):


You physically threatened me over a coin that didn't even budge in price, despite your assertions that I was "costing you money." Anything someone says after you threaten them, you had it coming. These people don't care about our squabble btw.

Well then why keep posting quoting me? btw people just have to read your post history.  Yes I am now trolling a troll and you don't like it.

i don't like BITSHARES and PTS.  i just only like BTC ;D

I like it. It´s just a little complicated  :D

good question !

BTS ia a joke ;D

They didn't "need" to raise more than $5 million to develop the project, that's simply the amount of interest that they received from people in the bitcoin space.

What about it is a joke to you?

Well, this is by far the most complicated, poorly-functioning crypto platform I've ever tried to work with.

First you need to "register" your account ID by receiving some bitshares.

But don't buy them from the exchange because you can only send those to pre-registered BTSX addresses.

So, unless you catch somebody in a good mood who's willing to part with some BTS, you're SOL (shit-outta-luck) registering your Bitshares X wallet.

The private key import feature does not work on the newest BTSX platform release, so you cannot import your Angel Shares or Proto Shares except by finding an older version from a non-official source, which I haven't been able to do yet.

Frankly crowd-sourced projects like this just seem to be mainly rich kids giving their money away to even richer kids.

Remember when "Ethereum" was still a thing? This project has the exact same vibe to it.

You can fund yourself easily by going to https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6122.msg81960#msg81960 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6122.msg81960#msg81960)

importing of private keys is working for me on 0.3.1 on linux both gui and command line.. Remember that if the account you are importing isn't registered on the blockchain you will have to import it into an account.  This can be done either with the gui by going to the account and then going to advanced, or from the console by typing wallet_import_private_key <private key> <account name>

If the account is already registered on the blockchain you can leave off the account name at the end of the command.

It may be a bit confusing at first, but the benefits of TITAN far outweigh the drawbacks.  Sending to a name rather than a alpha-numeric key, and true anonymity. 
 

Thanks Puppies. I do appreciate your attempt to help, but I have tried all of this before, several times, in several different combinations. Its way too painstaking a process.

"Remember that if the account you are importing isn't registered on the blockchain you will have to import it into an account."

How can you import an unregistered account? If an account is unregistered, that means it has 0 transactions in it, so there's nothing to import.

My main problem is I can't import my Angelshares from blockchain. I've already registered my BTSX account but no funds can be imported from either blockchain.info or my BTS wallet.

As I hate losing BTC to the ether, I am sure I will figure out how to receive my BTSX in due time.

But no software platform should demand this much time, effort and patience from their users. This isn't a product yet. Put it away and bring it back out when its finished.

I've never had any trouble importing btcoin or pts wallets into the bitshares x platform. What error do you get when attempting to import?

I'm not actually trying to import wallets but different private keys. The first is my Angel Shares donation blockchain account, which won't import whether I use the GUI or the command line interface. The import happens, it takes place and rescans for about 10 minutes, yet no funds are added.

The second problem is trying to move BTSX from Bter. Bter is telling me my bitshares account isn't registered when it definitely is.

No, I bought them on July 18th, because that was the 2nd to last day to buy them.


http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

"The BitShares AGS Campaign has successfully ended at UTC 2014-07-19"

Angelshares or Bitshares-PTS(Protoshares) you got after Feb 28 can't give you any btsX, you will get a share of all future dacs(DNS, VOTE, MUSIC, etc...)   that have a snapshot date after the day you got your angelshares.

I had the same problem with Bter but after some time I managed to move my funds, If you still have problem send them a "ticket"

That wiki deals with bitsharesX, not bitshares ags. Or are they the same thing. I still don't quite understand what is going on with this whole bitshares(x/pts/ags) thing.

Thanks for helping.

Ahh... ok, thank you. I appreciate it.

I can't believe I didn't figure this out at the time.

what % of profit did you make?

good, bts has been developed for a long time... maybe it's too slow.

BitsharesX is a DAC that has already been released by Bitshares. If you held PTS or AGS at the time of release you were granted shares.

Now by holding PTS or AGS you will get shares in future released DACs.

However purchasing period for AGS is now over so the only way to get shares in future DACs is PTS.

AGS and PTS function the same except AGS is illiquid and PTS is liquid.

If you want future DACs including the DNS and voting DAC, get some PTS before 21st Aug.

If you want BTS X, buy it directly.

If you hold BitShares PTS (formerly known as Protoshares) in your wallet 21th August

you will be given BitShares Vote (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6508) and BitShares DNS (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6509).

When BitShares Vote and BitShares DNS launch, you import your BitShares PTS wallet's private key to receive your stake in each (instructions will be given).

This means that you should retain control of the BitShares PTS wallet until Vote and DNS launches.
This means that only the amount of BitShares PTS you held in your wallet at 21th of August will matter to how much stake you get in Vote and DNS.

Also note that this means that BitShares PTS price will fall immediately after August 21th,
as everyone who bought BitShares PTS just to get a stake in Vote and DNS will be free to sell their PTS.

Also note that BTER and BTC38 will take snapshot of your PTS for you, to make it easier for users,
https://bter.com/article/2278
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6705.0

More info on BitShares DNS here,

Video (Draft): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeweF05tT50
Webpage: http://dotp2p.io/
Final Allocation, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6753.0
More info here, http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/.p2p_(BitShares_DNS)

More info on BitShares VOTE here,

Developed by FollowMyVote, visit their webpage here, http://followmyvote.com/
BitShares VOTE whitepaper, http://followmyvote.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/The-Key-To-Unlocking-The-Black-Box-Follow-My-Vote.pdf

General info about BitShares here,

http://wiki.bitshares.org/
http://bitshares.org/

Imagine if Overstock were to use BTSX to sell its shares? crazy you say? read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6818.0

A holder of a coin/share will always say "get in if you're smart". How about you tell us WHY to get in rather than TELLING us to get in.

I can only say about me, I make my decision about BitShares because I see interesting ideas, very nice community and devs, join the https://bitsharestalk.org and you will get your own opinion.

Below are some usefull links to start reading/watching...
If you want my biased opinion which should not count for much anyway, bitshares by far has more potential than anything else.
Having said that, everyone should do their own research and decide for themselves...

Overstock-to-cryptostock (http://bitshares.org/overstock-to-cryptostock/)

What is DPOS(you tube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0_jnX5Sy0)
What is TITAN(you tube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDvXZMQNnhE)

bitshares Blog (http://bitshares.org/blog/)

wiki.bitshares (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page)
FAQ (http://bitshares.org/faq/)

https://bitsharestalk.org/ (https://bitsharestalk.org/)

BitShares truly is the 'Berkshire Hathaway' of the crypto ecosystem.  I was incredibly skeptical when I first heard this analogy used but after researching daily since last November... I really can't think of a better analogy.

This platform is the bitcoin killer, and I don't say that lightly.  Think of any problem any other crypto has, and I'd challenge you to find out if its not solved through the BitShares platform.

The 3 MAJOR issues I believe BitShares has solved are:

• Transaction times - 10 seconds. On the dot. No more of this 10 minute confirmation [ON AVERAGE!] B.S.
• Volatility - With the coming advent of user-pegged asset markets; one can store their value, cryptographically, in an asset that has relatively low volatility in comparison to bitcoin (i.e. the US Dollar - this will be 'bitUSD')
• More decentralized than bitcoin by orders of magnitude - there are what, 5 mining pools?  BitShares secures the network through DPOS (delegated proof of stake), through 101 delegates that are elected.  You choose the good guys, the bad actors simply cannot sustain their efforts. [also a hat tip to the US founding fathers...1776]

BitShares is your 'savings' to your bitcoin 'checking' and MUCH MUCH more.  I cannot say enough good things about the core team and their efforts as well.  Good people doing it for the right reasons, not hiding behind pseudonyms, because they don't need to.

Like testz mentioned, check out the bitsharestalk forum and discover your own opinion.  You'll find me there.

All I can say, really. For all the technological marvel, Bitshares marketing has been pretty poor and information is not that easily accessible. It also means that if you make a bit of effort you will be getting them at a discount than otherwise possible.

You are right ...
- marketing was and in some parts still is poor
- information was difficult to gather but now there is plenty of infor on the wiki.bitshares.org
- the last statement is absolutly true .. if you invest some little time to get what bitshares is all about you might gain alot by investing (legal: not an investment advice)

I am very excited about this enterprise. I can see it being very profitable if it takes off . BTSX and PTS in my wallet. if it is smart or not is still yet to be determined , but it sure feels like a smart move.  :D

This is exactly why BitShares will succeed, such a great read.


Overstock to Cryptostock

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/overstock-to-cryptostock

Thanks for the links.   Any more resources about  bitshares vs NXT vs counterparty or peer coin,   please let us know.    Looking like bitshares is poised to do well.

I wish FreeTrade would fuck off with all scam coins  >:(

This a comment from Bitshares people, not actually any commitment and support from Overstock.

If they do it will be big, of course. Have you been in touch with them and got any hints?

come-from-above buys Hero accounts ?
makes topics advertising Bitshares ?
hmmm LOL

if he is interested i am not .

You have plenty of time to start learning about bitshares, don't dismiss them before you do your research. Technology advancement can't stop to just bitcoin. Sometimes you sound like all those early bitcoin-naysayes that dismissed bitcoin because of their lack of vision.

i agree with u !  Spoetnik Approved™

~CfA™~

scam coin.. avoid.

dude, i was patient for the past months as you had some truth in your posts, but with this you lost the last credibility you had.  ignored >:(

IPO from confirmed scammer ? no thanks  :D

eat my shit.. and keep your personality assessments to yourself.
I don't have to listen to some random lurker nobody telling me he he did me a favor and "tolerated my posts" for months.
I have tolerated all of yours for a year and i am done with it.. NO Mr. nice guy scammers (and their supporters and their shell / dummy accounts)

Ignored...

??

You must have got something wrong, BitShares has nothing to do with "a confirmed scammer" as you say, here's its team in case you're truly interested beyond mere baseless accusations: http://bitshares.org/community/team/

"Come-from-Above" has nothing to do with BitShares development if this is what you're trying to suggest.

STFU filthy noob.  I am grand leader of dem BitShares !  Bit Coin and Bit Shares is the LIGHT.

~CfA~

You might want to talk to bytemaster about that.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=611

His is CEO of Invictus Innovations the group behind Bitshares  http://bitshares.org/community/team/

"Invictus Innovations"

ohhhhhhhh you REALLLLLLLLY don't want me to start with that do you ?

s c a m m e r = ROFLz

i lit up FreeTrade and his dummy "Invictus Innovations" long ago and have dirt on that fucker LOL

warning.. you heard it.
you want to push on supporting these scamming lying thieves guys GO FOR IT !
I will laugh my ass off when you all get screwed by these same old guys.. AGAIN
cough cough Memory Coin LOL
The same guy who made a complicated scam coin to fuck all the miners out of the coins and then announced the coin was discontinued
when he (FreeTrade on behalf of Invictus Innovations) no longer had majority control of the coins..
so every body dumped for a loss then the scammy fucker resurrected it and killed it off again LOL
and the same stupid fucktards here fell for it all AGAIN !  ::)

i already proved "Invictus Innovations" is scammy bullshit do i have to do it again or do you guys want to use the forum search function ?
Hint the proof is on the Memory Coin ANN topic ..read it ;)

Game over scammers.. i gave you all 3 days.. times up period .
Get the fuck out of my altcoin scene scammers !

I for one have done it and I do not like what I've found about it.
How does the average person know that a scammer doesn't have anything to do with a coin? He's promoting it as well. I do not like the block time at all. Besides however you label it, it is still an altcoin and dust compared to Bitcoin.
Don't get me wrong I do not hold Bitshare nor do I have anything against it, I just don't like IPO coins.

Is BitShares really classified as an IPO coin?  For months prior to release you could acquire a stake in the genesis block by either mining PTS or buying AGS directly.  This method in my opinion was very fair in that you could mine if you have the cpu/gpu setup or purchase directly without mining anything!

Because everyone will take you serious Spoetnik, with such well constructed and articulated comments.

It's not the question of everyone.  It comes down to raw statistics.  If thousands end up reading this thread and 5% are persuaded, that's still hundreds of people..

Well it is, even in the title it clearly says IPO. I'm too lazy to go through my own posts or that thread, but I was there. I mined PTS and sold a lot of it back in the day. There could be some relating posts about that I do not remember.
That was too long ago.

I am curious so I will bite.
I used that little old search function and I found the memory coin ann thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370806.2400 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370806.2400)
Ok so it looks like freetrade was the dev around page 126 it changed tohttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370806.2500 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370806.2500) this Delinquency guy through some kind of vote......

What am I missing here?

If you have something other then what I stated above lets hear it. I am a pts/ags holder (never played with mem coin during the scrypt boom) so this is your chance to convert errrr save or whaterver you want to call it. Just please remove the tin foil hat/stop with the cloak and dagger and speak or point(through the use of the hyperlink button) me to information that says fraud.

back on topic: FYI Poloniex added an easy account register tool https://poloniex.com/btsxRegistration (found under balances > BTSX) so you can pay the .1BTSX  to register accounts :D much easier than finding someone to send you .1

So because you sold your PTS it == IPO. K, got it. ;)

He had a point.. There were other ways to get in rather than sending Bitcoins/Protoshares to the AGS fund. Just because you didn't hold onto your PTS it doesn't mean Bitshares was purely an IPO.

Anyways.. The assumption that all IPO coins are a scam is a fallacy spread by people uneducated on the subject. Sure, some IPOs are certainly scams, but it doesn't mean all of them are. What people are doing is stereotyping when they make such statements. It's like when people say all Americans are idiots, or that all Rottweilers are vicious animals.

Ok,  Smart people behind this project,  I'm in with a small investment btsx to try out.  

Is anyone with a bitshares wallet having any problem syncing their wallets?  The block chain is 20 days behind and will not sync.  Maybe I need to reinstall wallet?


Also regarding PTS,  should we still invest?   pros. cons.  dac dns sounds interesting,  as well as music.

I sync the wallet almost daily and never had any problems. And there are always more than 5 connections.

Check if you have 0.3.0 version https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/releases/tag/0.3.0
Check if you have correct time and timezone at your computer.
Be ready to version 0.4.x which will be published today or tomorrow https://github.com/dacsunlimited/bitsharesx/releases
 

If you are interesting about shares in new DAC - probably you should invest.

obvious IPO on coin from known scammer is obvious.. Memory Coin guy who made Bitshares has the most scammy coin ever released !

Probably you don't have enough information if you make such assumptions.
You can easily check https://github.com/BitShares and found who made what.

I often think God is the truly sadistic creator. Putting us so close to  the truth and yet not giving us the eyes to see it.  

Bitshares has not yet even started yet... give it 1 month and you will easily see it on the 2nd place...

lol, so funny and sad, yet true

When exactly did I state this? I sold it for much more than you can get now or that you will get in the future. The tittle here says it's an IPO and so do many others so the supporters are claiming this as well.
Another funny thing in this thread is that the tittle isn't even spelled correctly and he's talking about smart people getting in.

That wasn't the point. You are calling it an IPO when you could of mined Protoshares and just held onto them, instead you sold them. That way you would own part of BitshareSX, etcetera. Instead you sold your mined Protoshares and call Bitshares an IPO... It is kind of hypocritical because you could of mined and held Protoshares to get part of Bitshares DACs. Even though you sold PTS higher than it is now, I'd venture to say you would have made more in the long run by holding onto your PTS and taking part in the snapshots.

BitshareSX is on a pretty sick uptrend at the moment. I guess comefromabove sold all of his BitshareSX/Protoshares like the pump and dumper he is. That is why he changed the title of this thread. I think the joke is on him though.. Once bit assets come out price is going through the roof IMO.

Anyways.. Let's not bump this thread anymore, since comefrombabove changed the title to something completely different.

Edit: He changed the title back to its original title... I guess he bought back in.

90% of what he posts is plain BS, but this time he was right...big time. 

People must be right, your a paid troll and incorrect yet again.


FreeTrade helped launch the Protoshare's qt client, he did not design ProtoShares or BitShares.

On second note, FreeTrade has also done more then you could ever dream of.

my comment was rock solid a thousand feet thick of concrete solid and i called it on day one !
i have made 100 fucking topics on this cunt scammer and went on and on and on and on with walls of text about it..
you idiots are retards and want to wear me out and hey congrats it's working..
i think of a wall of text to say and you guys say,
"no your a lair and a troll"
takes two seconds to say that and me an hour to type it up.. not too fair.

the fucking faggot FreeTrade is the most clever scammer in all of crypto.
one of his many coins is MemoryCoin and that was hands down the most complicated scam.. evil genius style lol

i called that fucker out last year when he released PTS and he deleted my comments called me a troll and played diversion games.
and then from there when i cornered him he just started lying his ass off..

i can lay it all out and go "show my work" so to speak but why bother ?
your all idiots and i have watched him play your ass's like a violin for ages
..morons  ::)

Anyone contemplating an investment here simply must understand that BitsharesX is an experiment.  A highly speculative experiment.  Attaining a price peg using a prediction market with no threat of delivery or contract expiration date has never been successfully implemented before.  A blockchain is NOT required to set it up, so it could have been tried and tested anytime in the past 50 years on a centralized exchange.  The concept was discussed on these forums about a year ago and I'd advise potential investors to read through these posts carefully.  Convince yourself you understand how it is supposed to work before pulling the trigger.  There's a lot out there; here's a start:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279771.msg3282870#msg3282870
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423000.msg4621908#msg4621908
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg3610353#msg3610353

BitShares went up close to 40% today alone. They must be doing something right or have someone with deep pocket to support it.

The points you listed above, are they the only characteristics of bitshares coin?

According to coinmarketcap.com, more than 80% of the recent trading volume has been in CNY, ie. Chinese currency.  And 98% of the total trading volume (CNY + BTC) is on two exchanges located in China.  Decide for yourself what this means, if anything.


The threads I linked above concern the concept known as BitsharesX and have no relevance for other altcoins.

I want to emphasize that I am not claiming BitsharesX won't work.  Only that it is an unproven concept that could have (should have?) been proven decades ago without blockchain technology.

[i3nikolai 6 points 13 hours ago] (http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2ehmmz/why_is_china_buying_bitsharesx/)
bitshares has always been 70% china volume, back when only PTS was launched. Eastern market team has been significantly better up until only a few weeks ago. Many of the biggest players in the chinese crypto space (their analogue of andreas and voorheeves) have been big supporters all along. Heck, technically BTSX was launched by a chinese company.
Of course I'm not claiming it's definitely not a bubble, just that chinese volume is not necessarily an indicator that it is.

Dont understand why fresh fiat into crypto is an issue?  ???

...so, is BitShares still using the same asset pegging scheme as described in this thread?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298677.0

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Market_Peg

Discussions: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=5.0

As far as I know, the Bitshares market pegging process has not changed since cunicula's thread was started in September 2013.  While a somewhat abrasive character, I have a lot of respect for cunicula's ability to identify the fraud of the Bitcoin Pirate bank.  The credibility is clearly there.  He/she should not be immediately dismissed as a trouble-making troll.

FUD.

So you get all butthurt when someone else doesn't prove their point but you don't have to?

Here's a quote of yours from earlier today:

"BULLSHIT !

Prove it or STFU."

 :D

Also want to highlight this post by Vitalik Buterin, in which he discusses the double-edged sword of self-referencing price pegs (i.e. no explicit link to the real world) as BitsharesX is doing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324830.msg3581512#msg3581512

I don't know enough about DPOS and whether it can implement the POS voting that Vitalik mentions or if it addresses cunicula's criticisms.

Nice blog article for an intro to BTSX:
http://bitcoinist.net/bitsharesx-i-join-the-grand-experiment-part-1-of-2/

From reading their forum, lots of action has been happening day and night.  Some interesting threads to watch:

Basically covers current bugs and no one will lose btsx due to bugs etc...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7823.0

Reassures that the market peg will come about no matter what as they have backup plans in place if required.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7843.0


It's nice to see their team provide updates and be upfront about current issues, incoming fixes, and general feedback to the community.

Another interesting assessment:

http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

Nice article from CoinDesk on 2.0 tech.  This will be one interesting winter.

http://www.coindesk.com/crypto-2-0-roundup-bitcoins-revolution-moves-beyond-currency/

There is talk of adding market adjusted interest rates to avoid the binary outcome of an expected price target. It reduces the binary outcome to a floating price with incentive to float at a price target of $1usd per bitUSD. The lower or higher the more the incentive.

Tacotime, here is the latest thread on the market rules.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8358.0

BitUSD and other bitassets will start generating variable interest (like a savings account at a bank) starting Wednesday: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8520.0

BTSX up 20% today.  8)

Interesting articles on bitshares:
http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/24/what-goes-up/

Additionally, there is now talk about a merger and many plans to further dilute shares. Damn, I actually was hopeful that the claims of the "first truly deflationary currency" were correct.

BitShares isn't a currency, it's a company.

The price has risen today based on near-finalization of the merger plans, so I don't think your FUD attempt will work...

I understand Bitshares is a DAC and never claimed otherwise(You are combining 2 sentences).

 I was referring to the fact that I was told multiple times that BTSX is the first true deflationary currency as the IPO willed into existence an initial 1,999,883,512 tokens that would never be increased unlike with the allocation of other crypto-currencies. It now appears that there are plans to increase these tokens to 2.5 Billion shares or coins or whatever you wish to call them for the sake of clarity, marketing , and cash infusion for devs.




There are good things and bad things about this maneuver. I do believe that clarification is certainly a good thing for bitshares as the whole AGS/PTS/BTSX/BitUSD and all the assets was entirely overly complicated mess.... but there are bad things as well. What do you think about the negatives?  

a thread on some criticisms of Bitshares (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=830487.0)

Yes, because people give a damn what bluemeanie of all people has to say on the subject...


I honestly don't see any of the negatives. The merger is a great way to keep developer focus on one DAC (instead of competing DAC's that would likely cannibalize each other) while tremendously streamlining the confusing naming system that was going on. In regards to dilution, I feel it is necessary to a certain extent in order to keep BitShares growing -- all dilution is up to the shareholders to vote on, and no one will vote for dilution if it doesn't increase the DAC's profitability.

It is important to step out of the mindset of just being another "currency", and look at it like a company, as companies issue new shares all the time to increase profitability for the shareholders. This is a much more transparent/decentralized form of that.

And comparing to Bitcoin -- the profits for the BitShares DAC go directly back to the shareholders in the form of burn or are used to continue building the DAC. Bitcoin bleeds millions through the mining process, and none of that money is ever put back into the BTC ecosystem. That is why I have so much faith in BitShares' future -- the economics are sound.

bitshares is not a currency nor a company.. if it were a company it would fall into legal battles with SEC and the likes... it is a toolkit. It's important to draw this distinction because it can't be shutdown like bitcoin. If it were a company it could get shutdown... Invictus could get shutdown but bitshares would live on.

The capital infusion is based on consensus vote so majority of shareholders would have to agree that the new DAC would be profitable and thus it would get funded... so the idea is that many new ideas would only be implemented if profitable as consensus and thus supply is controlled by ongoing series of votes for profitable features/technologies.... which bitcoin doesn't have... it falls within the current mindset of the economy that you raise funds to pay for new ideas... and it is scalable.. something other coins with fixed supply can't do. In the end the extra supply would be justified by profits.

Many antogonists of bitcoin used as a currency have a problem with the supply... and they say the perfect currency is one which ties supply to growth or gdp... and this would essentially be the best solution to that problem IMO... we vote for something that would help us grow, and supply would scale automatically to that growth.

These comments are truly telling.

I can and do discuss many negative aspects about Bitcoin despite my investments. If you cannot see any negatives of a dev leveraging his time with  a competing DAC and thus undermining the previous investors to create a "capital infusion" than you really do have a lot of faith.

It is a one time infusion to avoid spending time on many DACs and create one to create one big rocket ship for outer space instead of smaller ships trying to get there... capital infusion is meant to be a feature for new DACs rolling fwd to tie supply to real growth (and funding for new technologies) as a consensus over time... thus it is unlike anything else out there today...

I have no problem as to delegates switching from a deflationary currency to an inflationary one. I expected as much because of DPOS, but am shocked it is happening this quickly. Some people would suggest this is an inherent problem with DPoS as early investors investments are being diluted, what do you think?

What do you think about the differences of how Bitcoin vs Bitshares raises funds for development?

The only real difference is that bitshares added the voting capability thus tying in consensus... and its only as inflationary as it needs to be... if new technology justifies the funding it funds it... otherwise it doesn't... not like today where we have technologies that don't hold their own weight... thats as far as I can tell, the rest we will have to look in hindsight... but I believe in the decisions so far.

One time, huh? What do you think the differences between a consensus being reached within PoW Bitcoin increasing the 21 million limit and BTSX further diluting shares?


Hmmm.....that's not exactly answering the question.....


Or are you suggesting there are no differences?

We can argue over definition but anything centralized like BitsharesX and Ethereum is a scam waiting to happen.  Bankers put the entire world into a mess and solution isn't replacing the current set of bankers with a newer set of bankers like BitSharesX.

I was promised this couldn't happen and that Bitshares was more secure and decentralized with their delegates than Bitcoin.

Meanwhile in the course of a month :
Bugs in the code inflate monetary supply:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=809378.0

and its interesting how one developer can leverage another DAC to influence all the delegates with such ease.

Some would consider this a form of theft from early investors. I know that I would consider any change in the 21million dollar cap of bitcoin theft.

Bitcoin is far from perfect but Bitshares advocates need a serious dose of reality.

Well alot of economists say the perfect currency is one that ties supply equilibrium to that of real growth (GDP). This tries to do that in a democratic way. It's not to say that votes can't be delegated to someone making it for you, but the ability as a shareholder to vote on these things is what seperates it from our system today... otherwise it ties as a nice upgrade to our current framework.. I quite like the idea... how is it different than bitcoin? Bitcoin serves as a commodity IMO not as a currency. It can't grow supply and thus people will only spend when they have to... its very deflationary... if we change our economic framework to model it after bitcoin sure... if we want to adapt both ways without turning the world upside down I think both can work in unison... bitcoin functions as gold/currency and shares for exchanging things...

I don't know how you think bitcoin raises funds to be able to comment on what the differences are between raising funds in bitshares vs bitcoin.... The major difference I see is that funds are raised by consensus and not by individuals in power. Is bitshares the one? Maybe maybe not.. all I said was the decisions being made I like so far... its personal opinion so shouldn't mean to buy it because I said its good unless you trust my judgement. The rest time will tell. BTW the supply went 187k above the limit.. its been burned... so it's not a big thing.

Aren't most Fiat currencies inflationary DPoS currencies as well? Citizens vote for "representatives" who than delegate officials to set monetary policy on an inflationary currency that isn't tied to anything like electricity or hashing power.


Transaction volume actually increases when a deflationary bubble occurs in Bitcoin as proven by bitpay. Why do we need to change our economic framework when we can allow inflationary and deflationary currencies to coexist and compete in the marketplace?



Within Bitcoin development is done by:
1) Volunteers (The open source ecosystem is large enough for a critical mass of developers to be interested in working on it for free)
2) For profit Companies paying for development. some of which is for their own products and some of which is given away to support the ecosystem.
3) Donations to non-profits that pay for donors

With Bitshares almost all of the development is done by a group of developers being paid by an initial IPO, and now this further dilution.

Both Bitshares and Bitcoin are also funding development by the vested interests of early stakeholders supporting the ecosystem to further increase the value of their investments. Within Bitcoin there never was an IPO or change in the protocol for capital infusion. This is a critical difference as the rewards for development with Bitcoin are only tied directly to the success of the ecosystem and a failure in the development or ecosystem penalizes all their work. With Bitshares Invictus wins if bitshares fails, more if it succeeds, and even more it it succeeds and they can convince the investors to pay by  decreasing their stake along the way.

Yes it is like the system today where people may vote or delegate their vote.. however you can't vote for specific issues anymore.. your delegate has that power and actually has incentive to manipulate the vote for themselves.. if I could have voted against QE and I was a US citizen I would have... the only way is to vote out the leader and have a new leader, but we got a new leader and he did the same thing.. it is to enticing to print some money and cover it up in the books, some go offshore, some go to your friends at JPM Chase. That's conspiracy but its possible. With this every share holder has ability to vote.. ofcourse they can delegate or sell their votes but the idea is that would QE have happened if all shareholders voted? I think a high turnout would have happened because of the context and I think QE wouldn't have happened and we would have reset then and there instead of dragging the economy in another fake bubble.

We won't change our framework overnight (only certain currencies are allowed to exist, those that they can pay taxes with and are tracked)... many currencies with different properties won't fly IMO.. and I doubt we will change it so drastically based on what a bitcoin society will be like in the near future.. however we use USD (and other fiat currencies) so a transition period using bitUSD is certainly something we can work with in the current model.. and later on transition into a more deflationary society because bitcoin is in demand as a safe haven and bts is controlled supply based on consensus.

Ok so volunteers helped bitcoin get to where it is.. however to grow as a ecosystem effectively you need talent from outside the crypto pool who's motivation is to earn money.. after all you have to put food on the table. I doubt many volunteers were in dire needs of these coins to go up in value so they can sell to put food on the table.. An environment giving professionals the ability to develop and earn funds through a democratic mechanism is greatly desired and effective to assist in creating tomorrows technologies.

Essentially for profit companies raising funds would be replaced by "capital infusion" by the power of the people. Thus it's not liable to regulation which tends to stunt growth and its open to the imagination of everyone combined.. instead of the select people in the company raising the funds.

BitShares investors (anyone who holds BTSX) might want BitShares to issue new shares to attract new users, either by giving away these new shares for free or giving it to someone who can promote or develop something to make BitShares more popular. At the moment, investors are hesitant to issue new shares because it dilutes their stake, and they have the mentality, like most crypto currency people, that this is a bad thing. Eventually I think people will realize that BitShares is not a currency, but a business on a blockchain (DAC (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Distributed_Autonomous_Company)) that needs capital to grow in the early days (and this is how businesses do it, they issue new shares in return for capital). In any case, if investors will do so or not is decided by vote. The way BitShares works is that there are tons and tons of Delegates to vote for (anyone can become a Delegate) and the top 101 get paid according to their publicly set pay-rate. If investors vote for Delegates that have a low pay-rate, then BitShares will be deflationary, and no new shares will be issued, if they vote for Delegates that have a high pay-rate, then BitShares will be inflationary, and new shares will be issued. Again, anyone who holds BTSX can vote. In each case, investors will not vote for a high-pay Delegate unless they are convinced, via an announcement in the forum or a website or whitepaper, that this particular Delegate will bring more value than they spend creating it.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/images/5/5a/DPOS-infographic.jpg

What the fuk is that shit

can you read

Looks like shit to me. Is it shit?

no but you are.

classy..

BitShares isn't a currency, it's a company.

Its not a company its a toolkit

http://www.lolroflmao.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/o-rly.jpg


You better ask Stan for clarification but I'm pretty sure it's a company.

Its a toolkit to create dacs it can be analogous to what a company does but it really is a toolkit

That's not what Stan said.

BitShares is software
BitShares is a network
BitShares is a Ledger
BitShares is a Company
BitShares is an Exchange
BitShares is a Bank
BitShares is a Currency
BitShares is a Community
BitShares is a Country
BitShares is an Idea…
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/update/2014/12/18/What-is-BitShares

BitShares is a Communism
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=916696.0

Very good testz, you pass the test!

Here's exactly "what Stan said" the last few times he's had this conversation with DE:

The business about whether BitShares is a company or currency is a pedagogical metaphor selection issue which was asked and answered multiple places in this forum, for example,


The best answer to this question was given by Bytemaster himself in his article What is BitShares? (http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/update/2014/12/18/What-is-BitShares/?r=stan) where he used TEN different nested metaphors to describe it.  It is eye-opening in its scope.


We've had lots of fun with metaphors over at bitsharestalk.org and bitshares.org.  Two of the classics, written by Dr. Charles Evans, are linked here:

http://bitshares.org/decentralized-autonomous-jedi-mind-tricks/
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/a-bitrose-by-any-other-name/

Bottom line is that metaphors are helpful in explaining certain concepts until the light bulb comes on for people.  There is a duality to BitShares that allows you to view it as a currency or a company.  Both are true, depending upon the context.  

My favorite way to look at it is that BitShares are shares in a company just like Bitcoin are shares in a company.  (Just because I called Bitcoin a company in the classic article that introduced the concept of a Decentralized Autonomous Company (DAC) -- http://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-and-the-three-laws-of-robotics/ (http://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-and-the-three-laws-of-robotics/) doesn't suddenly make Bitcoin subject to securities laws.)

Both Bitcoin and BitShares are volatile crypto-currencies on their faces.  But, BitShares viewed as a company (a blockchain like Bitcoin) does much more.  It runs a full-up unmanned crypto-exchange providing decentralized trading services and the ability for users to create currency and commodity derivatives backed by BitShares collateral.  That's what we call BitAssets (BitUSD, BitGLD, BitBTC, etc.)  These are the real currencies we are aiming for.  Products of BitShares "the company".  These are what give you stability (pegging to real world assets) and pay you interest.  So, inside a single Bitcoin 2.0 currency you have a whole new financial system on a blockchain.  Speculators can use the built-in exchange and trade BitShares tokens thinking of them either as shares or coins or fuel tokens, or whatever metaphor makes sense to them.  Consumers just deal with the BitAsset products - the "smart coins".

So simultaneously you can find BitShares in the top 5 on coinmarketcap.com and BitUSD at around #35 as a non-volatile "smart coin" that tracks the value of the US dollar.

So we shouldn't get wrapped around the axle about the implications of a particular metaphor someone is using to explain a particular concept about BitShares.  I personally jump between metaphors a lot when explaining things to people.   My intent is to show that the design decisions are reasonable when viewed in the right perspective.  It helps people escape from preconceived mindsets and appreciate what we have here.

In reality, BitShares is a Whole New Animal.  We can only describe it like the classic story of blind men describing an elephant while touching its many dissimilar individual parts.  Hope this helps.

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/134568/file-1208368053-jpg/6-blind-men-hans.jpg