Bitcoin Forum

Butterfly Labs - Shut Down by US Government  

Mining hardware maker Butterfly Labs has been shut down by the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC), which accused the embattled company of fraud and public misrepresentation.

On 18th September, the agency was granted permission by the US District Court for the Western District of Missouri to freeze Butterfly Labs’ assets and close the company pending trial, according to documents released by the FTC.

The move comes months after customers began sending complaints to the federal agency, a process that produced nearly 300 complaints accusing the company of delaying shipments and refund payments.

See the full story:   http://www.coindesk.com/us-government-shuts-embattled-mining-firm-butterfly-labs/

Also Network Hashrate dropping like crazy. Wonder if it's related.

Strato

ArcadeCoin Coming This December - Follow @ArcadeCoin on Twitter

How are these two possibly related?

awesome, i cant wait until Josh got raped in jail. That little bitch likes to mention dicks/cocks alot in his post. Now his dream has come true, soon he will get a bag of dicks himself.

Well they were still in the process of making miners right? Delaying shipments?  The mining manufacturers all "test" their miners for a long period, as in weeks, months, mining BTC, before they ship.

Their plug was pulled.

Strato

They actually have their mining company, altho they never admit it. They just shuffle the funds among their books. BFL's customers are nothing but free loans.

EMC is a pool owned by BFL. They had a significant number of people hashing there. Plus likley their own pool which likley was substantial. If it was shut down, then yes that would make a significant dent. 1-5 percent of the network if I had to take a guess (not looked into it yet), they had around 3-4PTh when I last checked. Thats a good sized chunk of network.

EMC was just a disguise to cover their own mining ventures. Not many actual miners on there, they use it to cover their btc funds.
 

I doubt Josh will get in jail too..  He was 'just' an employee, but yes, he probably deserves it

Fucking finally!!!

I still be they get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

It will be interesting how BTC is handled as far as refunding customers. US legal precedence in the making.

I imagine on hand funds are limited but BTC isn't.

Finally!
I say bring it on!
https://i.imgur.com/98kHQtZ.jpg?1

Man, those tortures are fucked up!!!!!

I mean, just take all their money, you don't have to go that far...

I wonder if Sonny is still on probation re his previous mail fraud conviction...

Looking forward to a 140 BTC refund for my 2012 jalepeno and single order.... ;)

I think now the chances to get anything back have rather vanished ...

Yes they do need to go that far. White collar criminals get it too easy when punished or never punished for the harm they do.

Agreed, but can't a guy dream?

Thats not how it works.

I'm surprised that the hash rate on EMC hasn't dropped at all.

You don't expect to have their farm in their offices and registered under the same company name right? But I hope someone will tip FTC about EMC!

Sounds like ole' Sonny is going back to the pen. I believe he was still on probation, so they will throw him in asap for violating that, then the new charges, that will likely take a couple years to finish.. Once a crook, always a crook..

More detail on where the BTC money went. Basically the claim is from the get go they never planned to deliver. Crazy.

Federal authorities believe that the three named members of the company’s board of directors—Jody Drake (aka Darla Drake), Nasser Ghoseiri, and Sonny Vleisides—spent millions of dollars of corporate revenue on all kinds of things, including saunas and guns, while ignoring many customer orders that went unfulfilled or were significantly delayed.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/feds-label-bitcoin-miner-maker-butterfly-labs-as-systematic-deception/

Strato

Aww, it's too bad that Josh is just an employee. I'd sure love to hear about him being raped is prison.

http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/aaron.jpg

The question I have is this:  the FTC documents refer, in multiple places, to the "harm" done to customers by the seemingly intentional delays in hardware delivery.

As a former BFL customer - who was at least smart enough to get a refund at the first possible opportunity - since I've been harmed is BFL liable for my damages?  It would make things very, very interesting if BFL was held responsible for the potential losses caused by not delivering the hardware in the time they stated.

At the very least, they ought to have to pay some reasonable about of interest for all the pre-orders which were essentially 0% loans to them.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/management-view/josh-zerlan-3/

"VP Product Development" sounds like a bit more than "just an employee".  In fact, isn't a severe failure of Product Development precisely the reason the company is now in this mess?

They will be in receivership most likely at this point. At best you can hope they kept shitty books and you get a second refund lol. But somehow I doubt it. They will liquidate the hardware somehow at the cheapest cost somehow most likley just to ensure people all get made whole. There are plenty of ways this could go. FTC I do think will make an honest effort to make things right, but BFL likley has alot of it hidden out. And having their assets frozen at least makes it good for everyone. Homes will be sold, saunas auctioned off fancy cars, etc all auctioned off like they were drug dealers. Easy enough to recoup some if not all of the losses. But seems a stretch to expect interest, unless the FTC can make a solid case of it. Might be an untenable situation. FYI I too was lucky enough to get a refund, but it took nearly 6 months to make it happen. I placed an order of November of last year and quickly realized they were not going to deliver. January I started the refund process and they were not replying. At which point I filed with the FTC (yea BFL I am one of the 300 who filed....THIS IS SPARTA!!!!).

IIRC Josh ran EMC well before he ever got involved with BFL.

What a happy idea. We can only hope. Let's take up bounty for any inmate or guard that snaps a pic of Josh bent over a prison cot.

Thats correct but IIRC he sold EMC to BFL shortly after he started to work there.

he sold it to bfl

Still just an employee. As much as I'd like for Josh to put on his big boy orange jumpsuit, he appears to have no ownership in the company and thus his liability is minimal. Fancy title means little. He had no authority to do anything.

Ur killin my buzz dude.  :(

Since part of the fraud revolves around intentionally delaying the delivery of hardware, his role at BFL would put him smack in the middle of things despite the fact that he doesn't own the company.

I think it would boil down to:

1.) Were there really delays in manufacturing the Monarch?
2.) When he made the public statements about delivery times, was he intentionally misleading customers?

The inability to deliver useful hardware in the stated time-frame would rest at the feet of the person in charge of such things, which would be Josh methinks.  That would put Josh's role in the center of the fraud.

I like the way you think.  ;)

I can't find it right now, but someone with inside knowledge here on the forums stated that not everyone that had ownership in the company was charged, and then went on to state Josh was not charged in the same post. I am assuming he was alluding to at the very least Josh having at least a small ownership percentage.. he does seem pretty high up in the company.

I'm not.  If they are on there they are running small potatoes. I'm #4 there and running only 8TH. Biggest miner on EMC is 33 TH with #2 @ 20TH.

So the posts about the raid was real? I was sceptical at first, because I could find any source to confirm it. They really deserved it. BFL has tainted the bitcoin community for long enough.

Yes they were. The court's filings were sent to a long list of people including ex employees, but were sealed until today. Hence we knew about their existence but couldn't prove it.

Don't worry Sonny, you will only be wearing your stylish new orange jumpsuit for Two Weeks^TM.

 ;)

Why are you still mining on EMC?  I would be worried that it will shut down at any moment and any account balances will be locked up.

I hope this lowers the network hash rate

Seeing an ever dropping rate on network hash too mabye diff will spike down n we make more coins again seeing 3 or 4 PH or more and increasing coming down so  who knows maybe will have a reduction in next diff jump and a few after it.

Would be nice to see diff jump back down a little

Not a concern because unlike many other pools they pay within minutes of hitting the payout trigger I set. In this case my worst loss would be being out a couple days of hashing and 0.1btc (payout trigger).

Finally! Wonder if the other manufacturers with bad business practices and ethics will learn from this ?  They are not so untouchable after all

I doubt they will. Call it the Enron Syndrome: They think they are doing nothing wrong and are only 'pushing the boundaries' of rules and regulations. To folks like that, the hell with the intent of the regs! They feel it is a game to see how far they can go and still be within the letter of the law.

Guess what BFL and Friends such as (ahem) AMT and Joshua Zipkin - you folks long ago crossed over from pushing to flagrant violation and unlike Enron you can't bury the facts in complex transactions.

Black Arrow is even worse not only have they robbed their customers the few obsolete miners that have been shipped out have been exploding and bursting into flames. All while they sit back and laugh as they count the millions worth of BTC they've mined.

LOL the irony here is these transactions that were done in bitcoin....open book.

A bunch of these guys are likely in cahoots I know AMT and BA are working out of the same building making miners that much has been confirmed. Here by the admission of the CEO of AMT is a proposal to make that happen. Not sure how far it went, but clearly there was an attempt to make it happen. This was a group chat part of a set of chats leaked to the bitcoin press.

[5/31/2014 1:14:02 AM] Joshua: not that the guys care anyway, i actually rounded everyone in a meeting in amsterdam, all the players and proposed we start some alliance etc
[5/31/2014 1:14:10 AM] Joshua: or at leat a formal association
[5/31/2014 1:14:43 AM] Joshua: everyone was on board and then when i get back no one does anything or responds with more 2-3 line email.. its terrible
[5/31/2014 1:15:04 AM] Joshua: we also found out that cointerra or Bfl was paying to fuck with us on the forum
[5/31/2014 1:15:13 AM] Joshua: Sam from knc said so..
[5/31/2014 1:15:55 AM] Opieum2: Hmm interesting likley BFL they have been pretty much doing alot of underhanded stuff and have gotten caught from what I have been reading up.
[5/31/2014 1:16:24 AM] Joshua: i asked josh directly, told him it was perfectly understable but he said no
[5/31/2014 1:16:47 AM] Joshua: anyway, they dont respect me much because of this situation, not that im out of industry respect or anything

Here's some coverage from the big boys:

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/deceptive-ftc-shuts-down-bitcoin-miner-company-butterfly-labs-n209866 (http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/deceptive-ftc-shuts-down-bitcoin-miner-company-butterfly-labs-n209866)

I love this snippet:

In a statement, Butterfly called the FTC's action "heavy-handed" and said the company "literally is in the midst of shipping out completed products.” Butterfly has already shipped more than $33 million worth of machines, it said, and refunded $17 million in canceled orders.

So, I guess they just needed more time, guys.

Apparently, they couldn't find the money or something. They're checking under the couch cushions right now.

LOL they just needed Two Weeks™!

I must admit, waking up this morning and reading the headline "Butterfly Labs - Shut Down by US Government " really made my day.

lol! A line straight out of Joshua Zipkin's playbook.
Later followed by "All existing orders have been shipped"

Someones pantalones de feugo...

Josh responding (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/the-monarch-discussion/8836-reports-bfl-have-been-raided-us-marshals-official-statement-request.html) to the rumour that BFL got raided by US Marshalls (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=788886.0):

https://i.imgur.com/N8RPec8.png

Hmmm... the rumour isn't dying down, looks like a persistent rumour:

https://i.imgur.com/PWDx9bT.png

Pro-tip: posting a receivership notice on your web site is not the right way to squash the rumour...

https://i.imgur.com/SgQPjYo.png

The website is now probably under the control of the receiver.

Agreed. I was just being sarcastic.

I'm off now to post a quarter to Josh so he can "buy a clue"... he should get it in about Two Weeks™.

IIRC, the only person who has been convicted so far for the Countrywide debacle was Rebecca Mairone. She was a mid-level executive.

I can only hope that this is just the beginning. Plenty of other manufacturers need to be taken down.

This guys were crooks, I requested a refund for the jalapeno I ordered since I was not getting anything, and the refund was awarded but did not get anything, until 8 months later I got a jalapeno when it was worthless, no one would answer the phone or reply to emails.

+1 especially those that owe significant compensation to their customers.

Also this might also work to WARN those who are slipping on customer service as well. I don't see the FTC as the only gov't agency in the world that will take a shot a bringing these types of BTC fabricators to court or beat them into acting appropriately. Clearly BFL is lower hanging fruit and will go down with a whimper as customers will finally get some compensation from these crooks at the hands of the FTC.

Hope they are going to pay for their lies...!  >:(

Enter HashTrade, not to mention NimbusMining, Netsolus, LiquidBits and Coinware.

http://s16.postimg.org/smfbkb9ut/BFL_Chip_Sales.jpg
Sonny Vleisides' personal site, and not BFL's: https://web.archive.org/web/20130625050854/http://sonofodi.weebly.com/

According to https://www.blocktrail.com/address/1Hq2t6dJcxqZjGda919p4c4tmopNRLciAJ, Sonny Vleisides' bitcoin wallet address - 1Hq2t6dJcxqZjGda919p4c4tmopNRLciAJ - used to garner sales for bitcoin miner chips didn't pay any mining fees as shown below:

http://s9.postimg.org/4bixaoadr/sonny_chip_sale_wallet.jpg

Yet, with one of my old wallets I doled out 0.0035 BTC for the privilege of sending a lot less fewer bitcoins...

http://s2.postimg.org/3swksoju1/my_fees.jpg

The following is all four transactions for the 1Hq2t6dJcxqZjGda919p4c4tmopNRLciAJ address used by Sonny Vleisides for the supposed sale of bitcoin mining ASIC chips - https://blockchain.info/address/1Hq2t6dJcxqZjGda919p4c4tmopNRLciAJ

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3876/15283090026_7a2da40d39_b.jpg
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3914/15328900075_48e9749615_b.jpg

All the bitcoins that flowed to 1Hq2t6dJcxqZjGda919p4c4tmopNRLciAJ (BFL's or Sonny Vleisides' personal account) went to 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs) shown above, including the scant amount - 0.01001691 BTC - from 17HSPT3bhYE1rhrwAhi8k6GCGGXRdQimY7 (https://blockchain.info/address/17HSPT3bhYE1rhrwAhi8k6GCGGXRdQimY7) and the 59.9273 BTC from 1DiPE4TnBczmPVoy53tffrd1iNPq87B3PB (https://blockchain.info/address/1DiPE4TnBczmPVoy53tffrd1iNPq87B3PB), the latter seen here: https://blockchain.info/tx/827063279c43c50c3f4c690dbf491071386d80068115f48d0beee7e80b4c7f2f.

Revisiting the 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0) bitcoin wallet address, the following image depicts 0 BTC tx fees paid when HashTrade supposedly paid BFL via BitPay that infamous million-dollar down payment for their multi-million dollar order of Monarchs as the press release reveals here: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11283333.htm.


<the following image gleaned from https://blockchain.info/tx/1b6ea350c094071412df1f801651263fd65ffa0b89ad6c8626ceeca8755f50bc>

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5576/15329065265_77561a2683_b.jpg

According to the press release (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11283333.htm), the $1M USD that HashTrade supposedly paid BFL stemming from 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0) was paid to BitPay's wallet address 16fus1FKurpDmPtEZLGbg7vRYtH2TEFbYf (https://blockchain.info/address/16fus1FKurpDmPtEZLGbg7vRYtH2TEFbYf).

ONLY 16 hours later, that same $1M USD equaling 5,562.354 BTC had 437.646 BTC added to it, and a new wallet - 1EXDF4fvjRozJ96TjF4SPN7rbTx2ik6Dsd (https://blockchain.info/address/1EXDF4fvjRozJ96TjF4SPN7rbTx2ik6Dsd) - was created to store 6,000 BTC that has been untouched to this very day, as seen here: https://blockchain.info/tx/ff0fb375a2375b2b9ee7e8daa5759085d8fe8cd85280a97b1dfbb14005f36153, and further illustrated with...

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3897/15326689271_5776c04c80_b.jpg

Again, nary a tx fee was paid to the miners, proof with the following:

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3898/15142862698_bf9e98119c_b.jpg

Note the confirmation time: Only ~11 minutes to get the tx confirmed with nary a fee. I say that's an impossibility for HashTrade to transfer a million dollars worth of BTC to BFL via BitPay if they do indeed maintain the 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0) bitcoin wallet address, of which I'm 100% confident they DO NOT!

BFL/Sonny Vleisides owns the 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0) bitcoin wallet address, as well as the 1EXDF4fvjRozJ96TjF4SPN7rbTx2ik6Dsd (https://blockchain.info/address/1EXDF4fvjRozJ96TjF4SPN7rbTx2ik6Dsd) BWA, for all the bitcoins that make up the 437.646 BTC to round the wallet up to 6,000 BTC also stemmed from BFL.

BitPay may very well control the 16fus1FKurpDmPtEZLGbg7vRYtH2TEFbYf (https://blockchain.info/address/16fus1FKurpDmPtEZLGbg7vRYtH2TEFbYf) BWA used to funnel the infamous $1M USD from supposedly HashTrade to BFL, but, again, I contend that said funds were redirected back to BFL's control via parameters they set on their BitPay account.

The only thing that puzzles me now is how if BitPay was used as the payment service provider for the $1M USD transaction, why were no tx fees accrued?

To recap...

Sonny Vleisides owned the 1Hq2t6dJcxqZjGda919p4c4tmopNRLciAJ BWA.

Thousands of transactions from BFL ended up going to 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0).

1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0) was claimed to be owned by HashTrade to pay the $1M USD down payment for BFL Monarchs.

The $1M USD payment from 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs (https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs?offset=50&filter=0) plus other transactions stemming from BFL totally 6,000 BTC went to the 1EXDF4fvjRozJ96TjF4SPN7rbTx2ik6Dsd (https://blockchain.info/address/1EXDF4fvjRozJ96TjF4SPN7rbTx2ik6Dsd) BWA after one hop, supposedly BitPay's BWA 16fus1FKurpDmPtEZLGbg7vRYtH2TEFbYf (https://blockchain.info/address/16fus1FKurpDmPtEZLGbg7vRYtH2TEFbYf).

http://www.hashtrade.com/about.html


The Jacobson brothers own the Canadian Bitcoin Embassy and the Miami Bitcoin Embassy, both entities that the Bitcoin Development Fund (http://www.bitcoindf.org/) donated 25 BTC to, of which they, too, have yet to liquidate as seen here: https://blockchain.info/address/1LAT5Zzf12cZqDy86ee2mcWhNZpk9DLf1D. Furthermore, I can easily show other BFL moneys flowing to this very address, not to mention from pools closely aligned with BFL.

All that said, which Bitcoin-themed periodical is going to be the first to publish this revelation? And, why haven't nary a one uncovered any of this before?

~Bruno Kucinskas

Yes, he is, it was prolongued for 2 years early this year  ;D

I guess he should practice on not dropping the soap again.

https://storify.com/fermunation/askftc

http://s27.postimg.org/8zlldlib7/FTC_tracing_BFL_assets.jpg

http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/comment/Cyanide-and-happiness-%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%8B-606535.jpeg

Bruno you don't have to pay the extra transaction fees, when sending bitcoins from one wallet to another, they just make it happen faster if you do. So if you are not in a hurry then there is no need.

Finally !!  ;D

Bye bye Josh !

Am I the only person who doesn't think prison rape is funny?   ???

I wouldn't wish rape on my worst enemies.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5576/15329065265_77561a2683_b.jpg

That makes sense. So, if HashTrade would've opted to pay tx fees, their infamous $1M USD payment to BFL via BitPay would have been included in the blockchain quicker than 5 minutes and not needing as many confirmations? FWIW, 16 hours later, the same amount, plus some, took a whole 11 minutes to be included in the blockchain with probably as many confirmations, probably because it was for more money - ~$1.1M USD at the time.

Glad we cleared this up.  ::)

Ergo, the only thing that makes sense, like you've kindly eluded to, is that BFL represented HashTrade and paid the money to themselves via Bitpay via a BWA they own, then transferred the now larger sum to yet another BWA that they - BFL - also control.

The IQA.... BWA DOES NOT belong to HashTrade or BitPay, but to BFL. I can easily link the 18u... BWA to Josh, of which funded ~31% of the 1QA... BWA.

How do you feel about fuckin' little old ladies outta millions with a lottery scheme?

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/voices.html


This makes two, so you're not alone, bud.

Must be,cause I WOULD!!!!!!!!!!!  :D ;D

My you get raped by VERY large men,many times a day Josh & Sonny  :D

R.I.P.=Rape In Prison  ;D

BTW,DON'T DO THE CRIME,YOU WON'T HAVE TO DO THE TIME (or get raped) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Simple..................  ::)

first off prison rape is not that common.  Second Josh and Sonny will be in white collar prisons if they get sentenced. So rape is even less common.

Third If indeed they are proven guilty and end up in prison I hope they get long sentences .

No, you are not.


I really doubt that prison will change these guys' behavior.  When they get out they'll go right back to ripping ppl off.  The only benefit will be that they can't run their game for as long as they're locked up.

Instead we'll be paying their living expenses through our tax bills, while making the private prison industry richer.  :-\

or the fact that Josh had something to do with it = AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE.

If someone deserves it - then Inaba/Josh..

I just remember that Video from the Fair (CES?) where he was a dickhead and gave a quarter to a forum user for "not talking" with him..
This was the day this dude raised ALL the red flags ... (and for BFL too..)

You're right, rape isn't funny it's painful. Maybe prison rape is the wrong thing to wish on them.

I hope their fellow inmates treat them with the same love and respect that they have used on this community of people. That should guarantee they get fucked, beaten down and berated every day.

Funny how the prison/rape posts AREN'T considered off-topic. Why? Because those who got raped by BFL have been in prison awaiting what they ordered. Worse, all their prison sentences just got extended infinitely because of the FTC's action.

Ergo, thousands of individuals when through, or going through, and some maybe continue to go through various degrees of mental anguish due to being raped by BFL, yet, sadly, at least one dude doesn't think prison rape is funny for the leading principals of BFL. I concur! I think it's fuckin' hilarious! BRING OUT THE GIMP (from cell H).

So is there a class action lawsuit yet?  'cause I want in on that shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG4W0LbIvW0

squeal josh squeal, funny clip josh zerlan jackson county corrections

I'd think that is now toast in that the trial date was tenatively set from what I remember for middle of jan 2016

just a guess but this will be wrapped up in a bow by then in my view

as for Josh nothing will happen to Josh he will just say he was misled and touting the company line as his job

Following orders? Really that is his defense is it Searing. LOL! He was involved in the decision making and knew full well what was going on day to day. He can't feign ignorance.

There is plenty of evidence just in these forums to use against him if tries that ploy. His only option is to lawyer up and rat out Sonny V and the others at the top. Pretty sure that is where this will end up. Ideally he doesn't do that and tries to ride out the BTC and IRS and Criminal prosecution coming his way and goes down with BFL to the bitter end.

I don't disagree but we are talking Josh Z. here ..he will sing like a canary to the feds for immunity...and he is as slippery as jello..imho he may just walk..

now as to the IRS sniffing around now with all this Bitcoin money moving around mysteriously

....well you could have a point there.....but one case at a time....heh :)

countries off hand that I think? have no extradition (we could start a 'where' josh gonna go thread" start a btc pool time/date


north korea
syria
russia (they can send him back like with snowden prob not .due to being p/o'd at usa now)
burma
venezulea




well that is who comes to mind now off hand (i think the above are correct)

feel free to add others

Latest update on the BFL homepage:

"BF Labs, Inc. has been placed in a temporary receivership pursuant to court order, Case No. 4:14-cv-00815-BCW. There will be a hearing on September 29, 2014 at 9:00 a.m. at the Charles Evans Whittaker Courthouse in Kansas City, Missouri. At the hearing, the court will consider this matter. Questions may be directed to the temporary receiver at: eljreceiver@spencerfane.com or 816-292-8316."

Please people, this aint over "till the fat lady sings"; contact the receiver and explain your position in this!

(My story is something like: ordered in jan. expected delivery in march/april, due to BFL's non-delivery I missed this much BTC income by the time BFL refunded me [after another 45 day wait] in august and I finally could divert that investment to another producer [Antminer] who did deliver in two weeks, in the mean time BFL banned me permanently off the forum so I could not communicate properly with either them or other customers.)

forums are still up on bfl (shout box is down) someone should ask to get all us folk that were banned for stating BFL was ripping us off back on there (heh) :)

I ordered a Jally (1st order) which I kept rather then convert to gh hashing (worked out $$ wise that way with refund) lost 1/2 of it in sale on ebay....but figure that others
need that $190 or so bucks out of bfl more then I do ..i got the bulk back $8.5k usd from monarch(s) non delivery on my 65mm deluded upgrade to monarch in aug 2013
refunded the 8.5k this last june 2014...

so will not bother with this $190 usd real loss....other folks need it more then me out of BFL

But what about the loss of hashing time/BTC income you missed out on because of BFL not delivering your $8.5k usd order of monarch(s) on (reasonable) time?!?

That surely is (a lot) more than $190 usd...?

good point...but it is unlikely the FTC will go into that speculative can of worms..but by all means feel free ...if I am in error on this would be a boon for us who
did not get miners ..(in my case 65mm that I eventually ugraded to monarchs was told april 12th 2013 orders I would get the units in may 2014...got the 1 jally
rather then convert that itty bitty to GH farm (wanted out) on halloween 2014...so yeah I'd likely have something like 400 or so btc from 210 gh I had on order
in april ....(i did get 1/2 of that back on last day of a paypal dispute the other half was the 8.5k ...i was a brave little newbie back in the day)

older/wiser

but def those going afte BFL make sure you tell about loss/stress/potential profit ...and if they are receptive to this for crying out loud let me know I will also
beat a path to their door

but I think it extemely unlikely anyone will get compensated for stuff they shoulda/coulda mined although it sets your case up nicely against and proving a bfl scam

wtf do I know I drank the kool aid from bfl at one time (hangs head in past newbie shame)

The following might me some good news.

Recall that Josh Zerlan's name is not mentioned on FTC documents since he's not a principal. Thus, he can't refuse to testify come trial time and MUST take the stand.

"For the record, Mr. Zerlan, take us back to the day on ? when you looked out your office window and realized that BFL's office was located across the street in a housing project."

"Yes. So, there's this forum, and BFL was first introduced, then somebody claimed they were located in KC."

"Go on."

"Yes. Well, I was just a miner with a pool..."

"A bitcoin miner."

"Yes, that. And I mined on my pool..."

"Eclipse."

"Ahh-wooooooo!"

"I object!"

"Sustained. Mr. Zerlan, they'll be no howling in this courtroom. Proceed."

"Sorry, your Honor. Council said "Eclipse" and that excited me. Yes, Eclipse Mining Pool, or EMC for short."

"C equals Pool? You said EMC."

"Yes."

"But Eclipse Mining Pool does not equate to EMC. What gives?"

"Chewbacca."

"Order in the Court! May I remind the jury to refrain from laughing. Mr. Zerlan, please address the original question."

"Will the question please be re-asked?"

"I withdraw the question, your Honor. No further questions."

"DA, do you have any questions for the witness?"

"Damn tootin', your Honor. I'm goin' start by asking the same question, then proceed to Eclipse."

"Ahh-wooooooo!"

Wow, I've been away a while and I come back to this.

I'm pretty glad that they've been shut down. Making so many people wait for so long whilst holding onto their money was pretty poor show. Treating them so badly whilst ripping them off was just too far.

I remember Josh behaving like it was the customers at fault for being impatient. Whilst I don't wish for him to be sexually assaulted, I do hope he takes a share of the responsibility that'll be handed out. He certainly deserves that.

My commiserations to the people who lost money to those criminals.

Only a little until he has learned his lesson and probably beg like the customers pleading for refunds. Only in this case it falls on deaf ears until he just accepts it.

hehe all in good joke ofcoure  ;D