Bitcoin Forum

Hello, I am sorry that there has been no official thread so far JRO the owner of Rebate has not had time to post one as he has a lot to do with other projects, Kronor etc. So I have been asked to take over with the Investor relationship. So if there's any questions or concerns I will do my best to answer them!

General Information
Name: BitcoinRebate Preferred
Summary: BitcoinRebate brings arbitrage and penny auctions together in a new, exciting and  most importantly, a profitable way. BitcoinRebate leverages ZipConf to instantly deliver player Bitcoin to multiple exchanges.

What is Rebate?
BitcoinRebate.com is a blend of penny auction and arbitrage. Users bid on blocks of 10 bitcoin (powered by ZipConf) arbitrage opportunities against other players in 30 second windows. Under the hood, BitcoinRebate is a powerful arbitrage engine that uses ZipConf to provide instant execution and liquidity among all supported exchanges.

What will the capital be used for?
The capital raised from the initial IPO will primarily be used for aggressive marketing and ongoing management, systems maintenance as well as further development of the underlying technology.

How do I invest in REBATE preferred?
We will be offering preferred shares in an IPO at GLBSE (BitcoinRebate Preferred) .The initial share price is 0.2 BTC per share. we will pay monthly dividends of 50% of the company profits from fees. This offering is for 25,000 shares. Out of these 25,000 shares, 10,000 will be held by management, founders or sold during the pre-IPO.

What are the estimated profits of REBATE?
The current estimated profits are 2000 BTC per month, by the second month of operations, which is equal to 1000 BTC in dividends owed to the outstanding 25,000 preferred shares. This corresponds to an average of 0.04 BTC per share, or a 20% monthly return relative to the face value of the preferred share.

When will the profits be paid out?
Dividends will be paid to preferred shares on the 1st of every month. In the case that the dividend can not be paid out, the profits will be saved and paid out on the following payment date.

Contract:
Each preferred share has a face value of 0.2 BTC, and gives the holder the right to 1/50,000 of all fees collected by the BitcoinRebate service (“Issuer”), paid monthly (on the 1st) based on the prior months earnings. Shares have no voting rights. The Issuer has the right to terminate the asset in the event of insolvency by liquidating any company savings to pay out a final dividend. The Issuer has the right to buy back, at any time, all shares issued, for 1.2x the price of the previous 120 hour average market price.

This information and any other information needed for a potential investor can be found in this Google Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XDuigEcbq5rL1RP0frrBZ2rZ65fFz1phHUgKUYROOT8/edit
In there you can also find some sneak peak of the website :)

GLBSE link: https://glbse.com/asset/view/REBATE

//DeaDTerra

wow 20%

 :P

Keep in mind it's a rough early estimate :)
//DeaDTerra

May 14th 2012? That was 12 days ago lol
You should include a link to the asset page in GLBSE.

Hahah yea, sorry. It was rescheduled to the 21th of May :)
Will do
//DeaDTerra

When I go to the "how it works" on your bitcoin rebate site, there is nothing there?  ???

as i understand, it's not open for public yet.  private beta invites only or something in that nature

...which was also 5 days ago. :)

Indeed, it's not yet open for public, it's in private beta for now. The developers has put Rebate on the back burner for a couple of more days before Kronos is out once Kronos is out they will finish of Rebate and launch it :)
//DeaDTerra

Indeed which is why it's already live on GLBSE :)
I have already explained why no official thread was up from the start.
//DeaDTerra

Rebate will soon be moved to the new exchange Hermes
for more info check: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77343.msg928697#msg928697
//DeaDTerra

Good News everyone!
JRO (the Issuer) has gotten to his senses again, Rebate,ZIP.A and all other BDK/JRO ventures will function as normal until the switch to Hermes. Dividends will be paid as usual and trading will be open as usual. When Hermes is ready the share holders will be asked to switch, until all share holders have switched dividends will still be paid on GLBSE :)

//DeaDTerra

Any progress been made in the last few weeks ?
Ive noticed the site has been down for a while and is now back up which is good to see somones working on it.

Hey guys,
Sorry for the long time without a update. But here's possible something to cheer you up :)
The main developer is working again on Rebate and he's now finishing up the project he's about 95% done, so we can expect a finished product in a couple of days. If everything goes well then the dividends should start rolling in next week.
//DeaDTerra

Subbed.

Thanks DT looking forward to release!

My apologizes for the long delay, http://bitcoinrebate.com (http://bitcoinrebate.com) released. All feedbacks welcome. Thank you !

Looks good :)

I am very happy to see the site finally up and running :)
I am trying it out now and it looks like a very neat site :P Currently getting 1.5% discount on my BTC :D
//DeaDTerra

Cant wait for the divs to start rolling in  :D

This site is so addictive I am sitting and fighting with others over 0.001 BTC, I feel silly but it's loads of fun :P
//DeaDTerra

How exactly does it work ?

The BitcoinRebate is connected to a infrastructure network called ZipConf which enables instant transfers between wallet to exchange and in between the exchanges, by hooking that infrastructure to a arbitrage bot we can get better prices on our Bitcoins hence offer better penny auctions.
The penny auctions works in this way, there is a amount of bitcoins that's sold at a certain price usually between 1-3% discount so say that we are selling 1 BTC then the price you could buy it at is 0.97 or something. You can then bid to get to buy this Bitcoin, the one that bids the highest for this deal get it. The once that lose, losses their bids, so say that you bid 0.001 BTC. If you win you gain 1-0.97-0.001= 0.029 BTC in profit. If You lose then you lose your bid of 0.001 BTC while someone else get's the bitcoins.

Is that clear or?
//DeaDTerra

I think they use zipconf to do insta trading and get immediate arbitrage opportunities not possiblle with normal bots.

Yes in a sense this is gambling, as the person with the highest bid at the end of the auction wins and everyone else loses. Hence there's always a risk involved with making a bid.
In what sense are you meaning? The operator can see the wagers but so can everyone else, the highest bid is always displayed, so is the amount of BTC, the price for this BTC and the discount.
//DeaDTerra

The auctions only last something like 50-500 seconds. Someone can bid higher, but then they risk someone bidding higher than them. It is a gambling site, effectively - or a kind of penny auction, depending if you consider the two different. You're betting nobody else will bid higher than you, essentially.

Highest bid is displayed at the bottom-right of the screen once you're logged in.

The auction lasts for 60 Seconds, of sorry I forgot to mention that. So it become a battle between the players of who has the highest still profitable bid before the time runs our. It's a arbitrage and penny auction site :) I would say it's a form of gambling but instead of the classic against the house it's against other players.
//DeaDTerra

The arbitrage system is what enables us to bid off cheap Bitcoins, By buying and selling Bitcoin on different exchanges we can offer cheaper Bitcoin which then people can bid on.
//DeaDTerra

Its a parimutuel bet :)

I did not code this bot by my self neither the system, I was not the one with the idea. But I do know how arbitrage bots work (I have one myself) and I do know how penny auctions work, so I see how the idea could be formed and I know how it can be executed using ZipConf. But I am not the man with the real details.

From what I know when you deposit the Bitcoins enter the ZipConf system, which is connected to the exchange a arbitrage bot is connected to this system and uses the funds to find good deal between the exchanged to buy "cheaper" bitcoins then on other exchanges. As we then can buy Bitcoins at a discounted rate we can also sell them of at a discounted rate on BitcoinRebate, ofc the dicount is not only from the arbitrage trading as the profit from arbitrage is currently very limited, we also rely on the bid amount from the losers to keep the platform profitable.

The man with the Idea JRO, will soon wake up xD, he's the guy that has the brain that you should be poking :P
//DeaDTerra

I am not sure of how trading 1 BTC for x dollars and buying 1 BTC for Y dollars is any different from any other arbitrage bot? They work in the same way but the advantage of using ZipConf is instant transaction between customer and exchanges. I am not sure if I have managed to explain the arbitrage part in a confusing way?
As I said if you want the details talk to Alberto or JRO, they probably know more about it then I do :)
//DeaDTerra

I don't think they even need some arb system to back this.

I give you an example:
1BTC for sale.
Now the bids come in: 0.1BTC 0.15BTC 0.2BTC 0.25BTC 0.3BTC 0.35BTC and finally 0.4BTC. Sold for 0.4BTC.
So they got 0.1+0.15+0.2+0.25+0.3+0.35+0.4=1.65BTC and gave 1BTC away for this. Instant 0.65BTC profit.

The only risk is that there are too little players. So to lower the overall risk, one could just connect some arb bot to this.


He is?

Ah that's part of ZipConf, the information to it has been available for a long time but the project is currently on hold. It uses float on each exchange to enable the instant transactions :)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zhBdJqp8z4bg6MKcC7yanzuiQtWJmsGQNQ7yVdDAuLU/edit
//DeaDTerra

You don't really need a arbitrage bot to run a penny auction correct, but it enables you to give better deal and to reduce risks as you said :)
Matthew is not directly involved but he works for JRO (ringcoin) and is involved indirectly in all the projects, he will also be working for the new company called IceHill in which most of the JRO projects will be collected under.
//DeaDTerra

Hey, the site isn't bad at all, I'm happy with my investment now. Definitely a recommended way to get some coins. Will probably need some advertising though.

The only thing I didn't like about the site is the alert system. It pops up messages in a manner that is impossible catch every time. The messages need to be visible in a log style list. There is enough space on the screen for that. It would be nice to see the list of auctions I won/lost too.

EDIT: There are some interface bugs too: Actual Earnings : NaN BTC ;)

Hello, thank you. I am happy that you are happy about your investment and I am sorry about all the delays. We plan to remove all the bugs and optimize according to feedback before we start advertising, and as there are only a few players on it's quite easy to win bids now ;) so take advantage of it.

Okay I will bring this feedback to the developer and we will fix it :)
//DeaDTerra

Nice right until,

"Certified by Godaddy" FFS why do people.....

Ok, it's lame. going to remove that.

???

Well that's neat. Some kind of transaction/bid history would be good. Sometimes I'm not even sure if I won or not since there is a bit of lag when the next auction loads, and the one that just ended disappears so quick.

I agree with  these comments.  I think people bid more than the available profit  because its not clear that the bid is added on to the minimum cost of the bid ( the "FOR" cost). I imagine after one or two times everyone will understand... or they just will continue losing.   
Hopefully there will be bigger things to bid on.. playing for 0.0062 btc loses its charm very fast

The site hanged a couple of hours ago and isn't processing withdrawals. Is it just me?

Withdraws are done manually at this moment, automatic withdraws will be added soon
//DeaDTerra

Hm that sounds very weird, could you please describe your problem further?
Have you tried reloading and logging in and out?
//DeaDTerra

The game on the website is down for a couple of hours due to a small big that was found, It's currently being fixed after that the game will keep going as regular :)
//DeaDTerra

I might also add that the Site is running positive and that we soon will start paying dividends. :D
//DeaDTerra

The site is up now again, unfortunately the bug caused some miscalculations. Hence we have reset everyones account to the initial deposit amount. If you have any winning/earning you want back, then contact me and we will go through your history manually and add it to the correct amount :)
For all you people with a lose, congratulation you got some more coins to play for, as a gift for the time the site was down.
If there's any questions or concerns please notify me and I will do my best to answer them.
//DeaDTerra

Just now my balance was changing without me even doing anything. Wen from just a touch under 5BTC to 5 and a bit when I won an auction. I looked at something else, came back and it was up to 5.5ish BTC, then back down to 4.7ish, and just now back up to 5.05ish again. Something clearly isn't right :)

Yea sorry about that, we are currently working on reseting it to initial balance :)
It should be fixed soon.
//DeaDTerra

Yep :P They should be fixed now though ;)
//DeaDTerra

Why does registration require real name? This kind of puts me off :p

I can't bid... Keeps telling me not enough balance... :(

To bid you need a minimum of The "For" amount plus the bid :)
//DeaDTerra

doh! ok...

Can't withdraw coins... :(

Apparently withdrawals are processed once a day. If your account balance stays intact that is. Hopefully they will, from now on?

By the way, I made a deposit 7 confirmations ago which still didn't show up in my account.

Withdraws are currently being processed manually, It should be send out shortly.
That sounds weird, let me check that for you :)
//DeaDTerra

Please Pm me your email so we can investigate further.
//DeaDTerra

I hit the withdraw button and it just doesn't do anything. Coins received. It is all good now.

As I said it processed manually :)
//DeaDTerra

After the feedback from the community we have decided to remove this
You only need username,email and password now to sign up :)
//DeaDTerra

Were the math errors introduced by the same programmer who was offering a 3%/week bond?  And was he the one to fix the bug(s)? 

I don't want to smear him, but it kinda goes to credibility.

Already e-mailed support about this.


I wanted to try depositing to a fresh account but I'm unable to create one through http://bitcoinrebate.com/signup ; the signup button doesn't respond and I don't get an e-mail confirmation. Browser info:

The same coders is developing Rebate and BitDayTrade yes :)
He managed to fix the bug yes.
He's currently put that IPO on hold due to that he's working on Rebate which is taking up his time, I am sure he will return to the IPO and launch it once he's done with Rebate.
//DeaDTerra

Sorry for disappointing you but i'm trying my best to make everything working properly. I don't understand your point about credibility though.

Signup form working now, sorry for your issues.

I don't think it does.

Also, there are good deals going on and no one is bidding, so I'm assuming others are having problems as well. I'm also having problems with balances suddenly turning negative and deposits not showing. PM me if you need a more detailed report, though these were submitted to your contact e-mail as well.

please refresh your browser cache and try again. All the other issues will be addressed tomorrow morning with the highest priority, i'm off for today.

You're not disappointing me, rather the opposite.  I was asking because I'd view you as more credible if you're willing to stick around and correct a mistake, rather than dump the code on the guys running rebate and leave it up to them to get any bugs fixed by someone else.

I'm not seeing any bids nor are deposits going through (6+ confirms)

The history page would be much more useful if it showed the auctions you won on the same page as your bids.

It would also be nice to see what the winning bid was. I've had multiple times where my screen is showing me as the highest bidder when the clock strikes 0, but I don't win the auction.

I do like the fact the amounts are more significant now.

might i suggest tiers for bitcoins?

That happened to me with my old account as well. I managed to open a new one and deposits worked this time. I guess no one is bidding because:


Well, at least as of now, a popup appears saying "you won", and nothing goes to my balance. Of course the bid amount is reduced. :P I'm pretty sure there is nobody else bidding in the same auctions, and all auctions I don't enter end with a highest bid of 0.

Will have to wait till these issues get fixed, I have 10 coins in there and I don't want to lose them.

This make sense.


Also, now it's telling me I don't have enough balance to place a 0.0001 bid, while showing my balance as being 4.xx BTC.

Balance has to be greater than "Available" + bid.

Ah ok. Took me minute to understand what that meant lol. I wonder why it needs to be like that.

Hmmm. Kind of forcing people to hold higher balances since they've bumped up the scale of the offers.

And now this. Nothing appear in my  "Win" history either, despite it having told me I won.

It seems like yesterdays bug hunt has created some more bugs xD ironically, I will report all of them to the developer and he will fix them asap, hopefully in an hour or two all of them should be fixed :)
//DeaDTerra

There are some bugs that did not show up in our testing environment that we have been working on, we are now closing down the site meanwhile we are working on the bugs. Once the bugs are fixed it will be up again, sorry for this inconvenience.
//DeaDTerra

The site was up, so I signed up, added some coin, and started bidding (around 11 am Eastern).  The first auction I tried #4843610 I bid near the end and it never told me I was outbid, nor that I won or lost.  The second auction #8083224 it popped up in the lower right that I was the winner, but my balance did not go up and I get nothing when I go to history -> Won auctions.

I'm posting this here because you have no support/contact us link on the site.

I have to concur with BurtW (as a developer, shareholder, and user).  I've worked on tons of sites in my day too. For something so basic I would never open it to the public without getting the core functionality 100%.

This is an understatement.


+1, unfortunately.


This has been reported many times to this thread, and god knows how many times to the contact link which only shows when you are logged out. At this point, the site's only function is stealing your bid money.

Apologizes for long delay. Deposit and bidding mechanism fixed, site's back to functionality.

We are now fully functional, up and running again :D
//DeaDTerra

My balance (9 btc) disappeared, even though there are no withdrawals in the history.

The "time left" does not seem to keep accurate time.  I've seen it go down one second, wait 12 real seconds, then go down two seconds.  Or some variation on that, wherein it waits many seconds, then jumps down only two or three seconds in one change.

same here  no coins in balance once again

Apologizes again, the bitcoin wallet had crashed and went unnoticed. we rely on it for transaction history. Everything is running smoothly now.

Another what seems to be a bug. After a bid and a new round starts the bid total from previous rounds stays in box and seems to auto-bid ( without pushing the BID button!). I saw my balance go down without doing anything while I was looking the wrong way....  It seems to me the bid should be zeroed after the  round is over

edit:  not sure its auto-bidding   - maybe the balance is being update not right away and I'm seeing it update after a few rounds...  will follow it

Yes, the balance update is irregular, but I don't think there is auto-bidding.

Since everything's working again, I bought some more shares. Please don't forget to sell into my bids too. ;)

Ill keep my shares for now.. :)

-what is needed is an auction # and site time on the main page to correlate with the history page...

All the bugs should be fix again, we are going to wait 24 hours, if there's no more bugs found then we will take it out of Beta and start advertising it as well as ramping up the winnings slightly :)
//DeaDTerra

one more small bug.....  at beginning of new round the  " EARN: xxxxx " doesnt reset unless you push the reset button...

Im keeping my shares.

I like that you are actively fixing things and not palming your customers off  :)

I am doing my best to take the feedback we get and make the site better :)
Once all the bugs are gone we can launch it for real.
Sorry for the massive delay on this project, wasn't the intention from the start so I understand the frustration of some of the share holder.
//DeaDTerra

any idea yet when the divs will start to come in?

thnx

anything new and exciting happening?  would someone who's running this asset please be kind and post dividend payment schedule.  thank you

It's in the contract and IPO information :)
"When will the profits be paid out?
Dividends will be paid to preferred shares on the 1st of every month. In the case that the dividend can not be paid out, the profits will be saved and paid out on the following payment date."
We are currently working on a marketing campaign to bring in more players, as well as creating tiers for low,mid and high amounts of bitcoins ( the amount of Bitcoins sold in each auction), so that everyone can participate :)
//DeaDTerra

Thnx, that wasn't so hard :)

I guess we just like  to get an update now and then without having to beg for one.....

haha, I just don't like repeating myself, so instead of posting something again and calling it news I just let the old posts speak for them self :P
But sure I will try to post more regularly :)

Yes all the losing bidders lose their bid amount. Its how penny auctions work   :)

If it gets out that this really is profitable, they are going to have a ton of copycats, just like the merchandise-based penny auction sites.

I think BitcoinRebate might have a scale issue though.

Even if people are overbidding, how much does BR net?  I'm seeing around 5-10 bids, and they sum to .01-.02 btc, and there are 1440 auctions per day... that's only 28.8 btc/day.  BR really needs to net .1+ per auction to make what most of us would consider good money.  And if they want to be making bank, then its more like .5+ per auction.

I can't see that happening soon.  But I hope they prove me wrong.

More constructive criticism...  a continuation on the scale issue.

All of the auctions I'm seeing tonight are tiny (around .1-.2 btc with discounts around 1%).  The "Earnings" number rarely amounts to more than a penny in USD.

You couldn't pay me enough to sit around and tediously bid, bid, bid just to win up to 60 cents an hour.

That's not even enough to justify writing a bot to try and capture the whopping ~$14 going through there every day.

A couple weeks ago when I signed up they were auctioning lots closer to 5 btc, which works out to more like 40 cents per auction and $24/hr.  Still nothing to write home about, but I could see a few people writing bots to go after that.

I think larger lots, with correspondingly larger earnings would help drive higher bids and far more revenue for BitcoinRebate (and shareholders).   :)

I've reported this as well...  but as stock holders we shouldn't care ;)
I think maybe the rules aren't understood or it's a broken bot.

It's still under testing/beta . It will go back to the higher sums soon I think.
( just trying to help DT...)

I assume they are sticking to lower amounts during testing.

How it's going on things? Can we expect cheezburgers tomorrow?

Cheezburgers would be nice, BTC would be better

2 WHOLE months after IPO..... please say we will finally see something today.

If not, maybe the owner should buyback all the shares..

just an idea..

bitcoinrebate.com: "No Coins for sale at the moment.Hit F5 to reload."


first and last update on twitter and their google docs, May 11
https://twitter.com/btcrebate
http://goo.gl/uja6o

Maybe they're waiting for the average market price to fall to near zero first.

However, two well known members of the community and the owner himself promised that REBATE will deliver, so I'm currently assuming this is just a delay.

I do not own the account or the equity for the Rebate asset, The reason why I have taken upon myself to try steer this into the correct way is due to that I have a big stake in it and because I have put my reputation on the line. I am currently working on contacting JRO, to get access to the GLBSE account to pay out a small dividend.
Alberto is currently very busy hence the Rebate site will be offline for a bit longer.
Sorry for all of this delay!
//DeaDTerra

We know you arent responsible for REBATE but it still kinda sucks to invest and then wait and wait and wait again and get all kinds of of excuses reasons why its not working yet.  Since we have no direct way to talk to the responsible people it all funnels to you I'm afraid.  In bitcoin  world 2 months in a very long time.

Starting an IPO , taking peoples money and stringing them along is just not acceptable .  True, there is no specific date in the contract but then why not just hold our money for 6 months and then say - "oh well"  and maybe give it back without any interest or maybe not at all. I'm not saying this will happen but it feels bad. 

Enough bitching for now... sorry again DT that it is dropped in your lap. I know you are doing what you can.

when they needed investors money - they did a great PR.   after that, well... it's just meh

Pretty poor performance, irrespective of "issues".  Took a lot of money and not even an effort to advise on timings.

I am tired of this bullshit both as a investor and as a middle man stuck in between this shit.
I will be talking to both parties and see if we can solve this so that everyone including the investors will get happy.
I will be pushing for a buy back as this is obviously not working out...
//DeaDTerra

thanks,
this seems to be the best solution.

if all problems are worked out just open a new asset - i'd probably buy it ;)

Although a buyback according to the contract will give only ~ 0.12 .....   

without any dividends this is better than nothing...

complete bullshit, but yeah, better than nothing.

I would like to know which other projects especially ones that are listed or due to be listed on GLBSE are these people involved with. Does any one have a list?

BDT for one. (And I must add that, with Bitcoinica fiasco unfolding and HYIP accusations to BDT (albeit baseless), the situation with REBATE doesn't reflect well on bitdaytrade.com at all.)

Is the guy. Anyone want to start digging ?

DeadTerra, my unhappiness in this is not directed at you and I appreciate you're in a crappy situation as you note. 

+1

We know who the responsible party is here. Im becoming unimpressed with this guy hiding behind trusted users instead of gaining his own reputation.

I have now talked to Alberto whos up for either a buy back or a trade in for BDT bonds. I am trying to get a hold of JRO still no answer though, give me a bit more time. He's probably busy, but he will get online sooner or later.
//DeaDTerra

Thanks for your work DT.

Since issuer abandoned development of this project shortly after issuing the asset to focus on something else, the only fair resolution would be is a buyback at original IPO price

So, do we buy it up to 0.2 and keep it there, or will the buyback be at 0.2 already?

It will be as according to contract, so it will be bound to the five day average of the bond.
I am still waiting for confirmation from JRO for a buyback.
//DeaDTerra

How will the average price of the last 120 hours be calculated?  The only trades I see in that window are from Aug 4.  If the average is weighted by shares, that 1500@.1249 brings the average up to about .123.  If its by trades, then it's a bit lower, closer to .11 (I'm approximating).

If anyone wants to drive the buyback price up to .2, they should try to get all the lower asks cancelled.  Then place an ask for at least .16 and have someone else buy at that price.  The Aug 4 trades fall out of the 120 hour window tomorrow (the last one at 20:00 glbse time).  Then 120% x .16 yields the .2 btc ipo price.

Put the word out not to sell into bids below .16 as well.

Buying all the shares under .2 would take about 250 btc at the moment, but would only get the weighted average to about 0.135413209.  You'd have to spend 472.8 btc and buy up through the .2349 ask to raise the average to .16  Still a profitable move, since you'd be getting .2 for shares that cost you .16 on average.

Likely the issuer has shares he could dump to lower the average as well.

Oh, and I'm not advocating manipulating the price, rather posting this as a thought exercise.

Hmm.. so basically we are  F*****  since the price is around 1.2 .
I understand there is a contract, but this "company" didn't even really start , didn't give div's , didn't do anything really..

oh well , beggars can't be choosers.

Just will have to watch out from investing in startups.

Sorry m8, I did the best with what I had. I have around 6000 shares in Rebate as well :(
//DeaDTerra

Wasn't directed to you DT..   and I know the real responsible people probably don't read it- just letting off steam....
and maybe a warning  for the future - at least rebate investors  will be wary of other businesses  run by the same
people ( you know who you are....)

Seems like withdrawls don't work either.  :-\

Sounds like you have good cause to buy more shares to move the average price to where it should be in case of a buyback.

Don't have enough liquid BTC atm, unfortunatly.
//DeaDTerra

I would do it if I new how long until  and IF it would happen...  no point in spending hundreds of coins just to have the buyback 24 hrs later...

I did my bit to move the price last week, and a buyback appears the only sensible option.

However, on top of that, the dividend (what ever it is) still needs to be paid.

Sounds like a motion to wind-up/buyback is in order.

That's what I am working for :)
All I need is JRO to accept the buyback, he has control of the account and a majority of the equity raised.
//DeaDTerra

If only we could get some of those too-low asks cancelled (or raised)...

Does JRO have any connection to this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18197.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18197.0)

I particularly point out a post that was made at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18197.msg345149#msg345149 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18197.msg345149#msg345149)


This basically describes zipconf and along with other things WiseOldOwl has posted leads me to believe they are one and the same. This whole thing is starting to raise big red flags for me sorry.

That's not JRO's writing style, and I' be incredibly shocked if JRO and that person were the same, as someone who's spent hours on the phone with JRO. Fwiw.

The issuer contacted and trading of this asset has been frozen until further notice.

All attempts will be made to resolve this issue as soon as possible but is dependent on the issuer JRO, Jonathan Ryan Owens.

Nefario

I don't plan on defending how this has been handled, and thinking about it makes me smoke... a lot. There was a buyout in the works, 20Mission was sounding pretty good... people had visited who weren't explicitly involved, who I talked to. But, there's been about a 2-week total lack of communication.

There have been quite a few honest mistakes which are excusable, I think, but I don't think I could defend the lack of communication. If I don't see any communication occurring by the end of the month, I'll be very depressed as I think I may stand to lose the most if everything collapses, but would be willing to give everyone the full details on everything which has happened.

I think Jonathan issued the asset and it's Alberto that's been busy. None of that is an excuse though.

Also, our money should still be with them, so I don't know how a buyback at market price is appropriate here. They should divide all the assets to the shareholders OR make a buyback, whichever is best for shareholders. Paying the excess as dividends and then executing a buyback is an option.

If the total they pay back is less than they've collected, I think we at least deserve an explanation about where the money is spent.

The issue at hand has been handed over to Nefario. I will be working closely with him to ensure this ends well.
//DeaDTerra

Great.  So now there will be zero trades in the contract-specified 120 hour window.  If a buyback is in the works, I propose it be priced at the IPO price.

If development is still ongoing, we need to hear from those involved as to whats going on.  IMHO the biggest issue is a total failure to communicate and set reasonable expectations.

If the project is to be abandoned, I'd consider taking it over.  Whoever's in charge can pm me to discuss if desired.

He can't issue a buyback currently. But I've not heard anything from him regarding this.

I've still to hear back from Jonathan Ryan Owens(JRO), have sent him an email for the second time, tomorrow I'll call him.

In the meantime I've been talking with Alberto in getting this taken care of and handed the asset to him.

The asset will remain frozen and funds (that can be recovered) will be returned to shareholders via dividend payments.

Alberto will post the details of what is to happen next and what has already happened.

Nefario.

X-Post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1092784#msg1092784

After an IRC chat with Nefario we had clarified my position and I'm now able to release further updates. The reason that caused BDT freeze in first place is my involvement with Jonathan Ryan Owens (read JRO from here on), rebate IPO and suspicious funds management practices. It did not came without reasons and i believe in fact that Nefario just did the right choice the protect GLBSE market integrity. Some time ago i was working with JRO on some projects, and it was decided to hold an IPO on GLBSE for bitcoinrebate.com. At that time i was not fond of how GLBSE worked and didn't have time to investigate as i was busy with development, so i've trusted JRO to handle the IPO and funds on my behalf entirely. At some point i said i needed money for all the work i was doing, and got sent about 1000 BTC out of the rebate funds. I never knew the total amount raised, and didn't feel it was necessary to investigate. I have later learned that a total of 5000 bitcoin were raised. My relationship with JRO was interrupted shortly after, because of diverse reasons. After we parted ways JRO enquired me a number of times about taking the lead on the rebate project but we didn't reach an agreement. I was never enquired about profitability of the site or any financial detail. At this point, i have no idea where the rest of the funds raised from the sale of rebate bonds are gone, or if they have been exchanged to hard currency. Nefario transferred the totality of bonds to my account, i'll determinate the exact amount of bitcoin i got from JRO in the context of this project, and proceed with paying that amount back to investors through dividend payments in a unique solution. This was determined to be the best solution until we know how much can be recovered from JRO. Kudos to Nefario for handling matters in a professional way.

BDT trading is resumed since it was also determined that the asset has no involvement with this incident, and that there are no threats for GLBSE users. I'll proceed to execute dividends payment in the next hours. We won't pay late fees as it was determined that this incident is not directly caused by us.

Bests
Alberto Armandi
BDT

Someone should. Has he been active on the IRC? It seems all his projects are unresponsive, including the sites zipconf.com and kronos.io. He was online here just 12 days ago, there is too little time for the websites to go down even if he doesn't have Internet access. Were they already shut down? His latest post was on July 15.

He's not replying to anyone except those who are phyically beside him.

No phone replies, either, but someone around him said he's actively working to resolve the situation amicably for all.

I am glad to see that the GLSBE staff will step in to stop further investor loss, this makes your service that much better.

From what I've learned, those around him (not going to drop names here) have been covering for him for some time. To resolve a situation requires at the least basic communication, of which we've not seen for months.

People have some explaining to do if they have allowed someone dodgy to raise funds. It reflects on their reputations too imo.

Edit: http://bitcoinbolt.rememberi.es/category/jonathan-ryan-owens/ (http://bitcoinbolt.rememberi.es/category/jonathan-ryan-owens/)

How much of the rebate funds went into this project ?

JRO posted update https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101098.0


I got one question, where did all these accumulated through offering security funds go?

So, any updates on the buyback?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=22299

I think no

Nope, JRO has gone off the grid so to speak. Last time I spoke to him was several weeks ago.
Kluge talked to him though (phone call)and it seems like he's working hard to repay his debts.
//DeaDTerra

Okay, I haven't talked to Kluge, I just said what I remember reading.
Well in that case, a scam tag would probably be appropriate as he doesn't seem to have any intention of paying back.
//DeaDTerra

All these scammer tags don't mean a damn thing. JRO will probably not be in these forums ever again so whats the point.
Oh well, seems diversifying investments doesn't help much in bitcoin world.

That's unacceptable. Can someone PM me his contact information? I'll distribute it to other shareholders on demand.

Suddenly shareholders unions make sense. Maybe GLBSE should support private boards for each asset that only shareholders can read/write.

very nice idea.
but i think it shouldn't be on glbse directly. a complete seperate forum would fit better (but how to proof you are only a share holder - just dont know)

+1

Im sick of being screwed by asset issuers and its getting beyond a joke.

I have been watching the securities and loans sections of the forum for quite a while now and am wondering if any of the measures I have been developing for my Open Transactions server (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0) would be applicable/useful.

I initially liked the underwriter (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92725.0) suggestion, however that has not elicited a lot of enthusiasm, and the last post to its thread even claims it is impossible or maybe they mean inappropriate.

For actual saleable stuff, objects and such that can be liquidated, the concept of "assessors who mean it" seems to have merit. Basically this involves not mere handwaving assessors who look over a Corp's tools machinery furniture retail locations brand awareness in its market and so on and come up with a guess as to how much they could liquidate it for but, rather, actual bids, in effect; firm offers "I will buy that stuff outright for this much if you want to liquidate it".

By having such an assessment of a Corp, I can be fairly confident in the "misc assets" number I plug in along with all the electronic assets on my exchange (server) that the Corp owns to arrive at the "current actual value per share" figures I post at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

I'm drafting up a demand letter for JRO. I originally set September 10th as the date I'd start moving forward with legal action, but have been unreasonably busy (and a bit soft). Because our agreement not directly related to REBATE or Zip.A, nobody else will be invited to my letter-writing party. Fwiw.

ETA: OTOH, if ZIP.A & REBATE investors would be interested in having me deliver their demand letters (breech of contract notifications), I could hand-deliver them to JRO. But, I live in MI, and can't afford the flight (train's just as expensive) with how tight money is for me while I pay back all my depositors out-of-pocket given JRO makes up the majority of my defaults, now. I'd be willing to cover half the round-trip flight cost if others'd be willing to do the other half. I'd deliver the notices, and have JRO sign that he's received them, which should hold up in court. Alternately, I'm trying to find someone who lives in SFO who could do the same. Not trying to push anything - just throwing the offer out there.

That doesnt help when the issuer is a douchebag and does the wrong thing.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110507.0  I have asked for a scammer tag for JRO untill he sorts things out. No one should ever do business with him again.

Ah, sorry I missed that. Are you still planning to go? Don't know why but GLBSE has changed the status of REBATE and I can't see the details, but I think there are enough shareholders; we can gather the money if everyone chipped in.

Keep us posted either way. Thanks.

any news on this scammer?

Who, Kludge or Nefario?

Not that it matters, anyway.

I see that BDT is on the list published by Nefario, but REBATE isn't. I wonder why.

DeaDTerra, are you still around? I'm glad that you made the right decision by stepping away from BDT, but I'm hoping you will step up and work on the REBATE situation, like Meni is doing with BDT.

So JRO logged in on 16th of august and posted this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101098.0

and hasn't logged in again.  Is there any developments with this?

I don't understand, why this man still don't have scam tag?

I have not been in contact with JRO for months and he's no longer responding to my messages or calls.
He still lives in San Francisco and GoWest went there to see him and he is currently working on a couple of projects, he says he still plans to repay all the investors whenever he can.
//DeaDTerra

I'm owed just a couple of btc from this scam, likelihood of receiving it? Next to zero  :(

Thanks for responding. So are the chances more than getting something from pirate? ;)
If and when this happens- with GLBSE dead how will he know who and how much?

I'm owed around a hundred coins in theory.

The problem isn't only GLBSE's death, but also REBATE being frozen before GLBSE's death. AFAIK the list was never sent to Jonathan in the first place. Even if he received the list somehow, James didn't make it public, so he can plausibly deny having it anyway. The fact that Nefario's measures against "scammers" made it much easier for people to get away with our money is very depressing.

At this point we are even more dependent on JRO's conscience. There is a chance that he has one. There are some borrowers who paid me back with their own money or got a job to make the money to pay back, even though they were scammed themselves. Others just disappeared on the first sight of trouble, even though they were supposed to just keep the money (as opposed to investing).

Besides hoping that Jonathan does value honor, I don't see any way out other than spending tens of thousands (of whatever currency) on an all-out international legal attack that is likely to fail, or personally confront these people which has an equal likelihood of failing.

JRO's conscience is great but theoretically even if he had the want and means to pay how could he?
Zip.a and rebate were frozen but the records have to be somewhere.   

Also I imagine it would never pay BTC with this value but it's worth when it all collapsed....