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What someone in Oman told me. "We pray for the Jihadists, that one day they will convert to Islam."

They are not Jihadist, they are Not Muslim, They are Not Human. Can you Imagine that A man can Kill another Person, On the Basis of His religion?

They are not Jihadist, they are Not Muslim, They are Not Human. Can you Imagine that A man can Kill another Person, On the Basis of His religion?

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 266l:
Narrated Salim Abu An-Nadr:

(the freed slave of 'Umar bin 'Ubaidullah) I was Umar's clerk. Once Abdullah bin Abi Aufa wrote a letter to 'Umar when he proceeded to Al-Haruriya. I read in it that Allah's Apostle in one of his military expeditions against the enemy, waited till the sun declined and then he got up amongst the people saying, "O people! Do not wish to meet the enemy, and ask Allah for safety, but when you face the enemy, be patient, and remember that Paradise is under the shades of swords." Then he said, "O Allah, the Revealer of the Holy Book, and the Mover of the clouds and the Defeater of the clans, defeat them, and grant us victory over them."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 266c:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said: "Do not wish to meet the enemy, but when you meet face) the enemy, be patient."

I don't know. They are perhaps more like us than we are comfortable thinking. Many grow up in poverty and corruption. Maybe the only legitimate power they ever knew was the local imam? Those kids are ripe for recruitment by groups who puff them up with delusions of adventure, riches, and respect. That is a powerful message for the disenfranchised. Of course by the time they figure out that they are only killing other Muslims over money, land, oil, and power; its too late. I feel sorry for many of them.
But make no mistake, the game is on. They would kill me and if I had to I would drop the hammer and flip their switch just as quick.


P.S. Abu Alaa al-Afari may have just been killed in an airstrike.

First let me tell here an Ayat from Quran: 

If any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity.

Muslims just need to believe little girls going to school is spreading mischief in the land, whatever that means.

Can you please Provide me the Link did you Got It because I found this:

First let me tell here an Ayat from Quran: 

If any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity.
____________________________________________________________________

Today Death Toll In Karachi Bus Shooting Rises To 44 death and 13 injured

"At least 44 people have been killed and 13 others injured when some unknown gunmen attacked a passsenger bus near Safoora Chowrangi in Karachi, Dunya News reported.

 
Reportedly, sixteen women were among the dead.
 
"Six terrorists came on three motorcycles, they entered the bus and began firing indiscriminately. They used 9mm pistols and all those killed and injured were hit by the 9mm pistols,"

So who are they are these Muslim?

Like most westerners I think girls should be encouraged to go to school. But it is true that these are recent ideas. It was not until the 1930's that American girls went to school in any numbers. And it was not for their career. They were expected to marry, have children, and shut the fuck up.

First let me tell here an Ayat from Quran: 

If any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity.

What in the actual fuck is the definition of 'spreading mischief'. People can interpret that in any way they wish. The attacks were Sunni against shia, right? Maybe the sunni's think that shia's are spreading mischief therefore they're fair game to be killed. I know not all muslims feel this way but killing members of your own religion only with slightly different views just shows you how ridiculous this is (though of course all religions are equally ridiculous any way).

What in the actual fuck is the definition of 'spreading mischief'. People can interpret that in any way they wish. The attacks were Sunni against shia, right? Maybe the sunni's think that shia's are spreading mischief therefore they're fair game to be killed. I know not all muslims feel this way but killing members of your own religion only with slightly different views just shows you how ridiculous this is (though of course all religions are equally ridiculous any way).

First let me tell here an Ayat from Quran: 

If any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity.
____________________________________________________________________

Today Death Toll In Karachi Bus Shooting Rises To 44 death and 13 injured


So who are they are these Muslim?

I dont know if they're muslims or not,
but one thing for sure, theyre humans,
and religion is not to be blame for it.

Here, spreading mischief means making wars, killing people and spreading hatread and violence etc... It perfectly fits with what ISIS and similar groups are doing. I think they haven't see this! ::)

They ain't humans.

They ain't humans.

Where is here? Like 311 said that all depends on a persons interpretation and that's yours. Like most people who follow religion they interpret teachings or rules in their own way or even choose to blindly ignore other parts.


Of course they're humans. Backwards with perverted ideology maybe, but they're still humans.

Don't know who were they but definetely not the human beings. Like I don't understand how can people of pakistan live in such a threat. I am thankful that I live in such a country that I know that tommorrow I will wake up and would be breathing. Feeling sorry for the family of people who died in this attack.

Here, spreading mischief means making wars, killing people and spreading hatread and violence etc... It perfectly fits with what ISIS and similar groups are doing. I think they haven't see this! ::)

One way to understand it would be to look at actual words of teachings of radical Islamic Mosques.  If they say to do things like this, then the bad guys are human beings following orders of radical Muslim clerics.  That makes them human, and Muslim.

Pretty simple.   

If they are Muslims, even though they may be deluded and incorrect about their religion, they have strong faith and a lot of guts, especially those who give up their lives in suicide bombing.
:)

OP is doing the no true scotsman fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Plus, the loophole for killing everyone they want is in the verse he quoted:


Muslims just need to believe little girls going to school is spreading mischief in the land, whatever that means.

You don't need to be brave to give up your life in a suicide bombing, you just have to be dumb enough to be brainwashed.

Which religion teaches you to kill other humans who belong to your own religion and to kill children who don't even know the meaning of the word religion?

It's disgusting when people blame a religion for a criminal offense and start indirectly defending these criminals.

yeah, animals just kill their preys as a food for them. Only humans who can kill the others just because of racists, religions, or nations.

Do you hate humans?

Correct. These are mentally retarded people . Humanity comes over any religion whether it is hindu, muslims, christians etc. And no religion teaches to kill other humans and how can one kill the innocent children who were just on journey of life to see how beautiful it is.

Yes they were muslims and no doubt about that. Their religion itself teaches them to do so they are given the special training from their own religion and they brainwashed their mentality towards the society I mean how can one give a training to kill some innocent children and people. Ridiculous.

Historically, though, it certainly has occurred.  What about ritual sacrifices of humans for the gory of God?

South America and Mexico.

Yeah, the Mayans, Aztecs, Incans...all sacrificed people, even children to their "gods". I just don't see any need for religion in an intelligent society, I don't care what others believe in but when you start killing innocents and children, you and your beliefs should not exist.

Yeah, the Mayans, Aztecs, Incans...all sacrificed people, even children to their "gods". I just don't see any need for religion in an intelligent society, I don't care what others believe in but when you start killing innocents and children, you and your beliefs should not exist.

Human sacrifice has existed in all the continents (with the exception of Oceania). Even Christian sects have performed human sacrifices in the past. The bible contains multiple references to human sacrifice. And it is ongoing even now, in remote parts of Asia (esp. India) and Africa. I am not sure whether it exists in the Americas or not. The last reported incident occurred in 1960 (José Luis Painecur).

Also, check this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4098172.stm

Another thread about Islam, amazing! We should rename this section in "Islam & Islam" ... 'Politics & Society' is not more appropriate. //  just a little bit of sarcasm, why not.

---

I think Islam doesn't teach muslim to kill other people and no one of my friend or muslims that I know told me the contrary. So I think they can proclaim themselves muslim, but they are not muslims (in my point of view).

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The word used instead, "fitna",  can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Most Muslims are probably reasonably peaceful, just like most other people.

The writings of Islam leave a door open for people who are not peaceful. How do Islamic Writings do this? By suggesting that violence is okay at some times, and required at other times. There are many examples listed at http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm of violence listed in the Quran and elsewhere in Islamic writings. Here are several, translated:
Because of these things written in the Quran, there are times when Muslims who do not fight are going against Islam.

Personally, since I am a rather peaceful person, I would not want to be Muslim, simply because there is that in the writings that seem to prescribe fighting and violence, and even hate.

Check the link. There are many other verses with explanation.

:)

Most Muslims are probably reasonably peaceful, just like most other people.

The writings of Islam leave a door open for people who are not peaceful. How do Islamic Writings do this? By suggesting that violence is okay at some times, and required at other times. There are many examples listed at http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm of violence listed in the Quran and elsewhere in Islamic writings. Here are several, translated:

Because of these things written in the Quran, there are times when Muslims who do not fight are going against Islam.

Personally, since I am a rather peaceful person, I would not want to be Muslim, simply because there is that in the writings that seem to prescribe fighting and violence, and even hate.

Check the link. There are many other verses with explanation.

:)

What if a muslim that he is a person like me and you don't agree with these sentence? I think he will be a better muslim, because it is really no sense kill someone else in name of a God... really insane. I should read that book ( Quran and also the Bible) in their 'native' language to understand more better the sense.. the arab one for the Quran and ... what is the native language of the Bible?

The problem is: I do not know the Arab language  :-X.

No two people agree on everything. And the things that they DO agree on, they still have slightly different understandings of. The point is that the world is made up of people who don't agree. Yet we all should live in peace, being patient with each other.

Regarding religion and peace, the written words of Islam suggest violence as well as peace. Most other religions writings suggest only peace. This can be a troublesome contradiction in the minds of knowledgeable Muslims. Which should they follow? Violence or peace? And when?

:)

I told that the religionofpeace site spread pure disinformation but I know you won't care as you want to spread hatred.......
Yes. There are verses with disinformation in that site. Islam isn't telling people to spread hatred and violence. That verses were about fighting at that time. There are many lies in that website.

Wrong. Even in Bible there is violence.

"When" has been clearly mentioned in Qur'an and hadiths. They should only fight when they are being attacked or they have no other choice -- conditions apply.

Wrong. Even in Bible there is violence.

"When" has been clearly mentioned in Qur'an and hadiths. They should only fight when they are being attacked or they have no other choice -- conditions apply.

....
I remember that one time my teacher said << if we go past in the 1930 or 1950 we will see another Bible version, with more "things", words and concept. >> That makes me to thing "oh wait , there is something wrong here" and someone has removed some parts... and he completed with << I think the Quran is not modified, and if you 'catch' an old version of 100-200 years we will find the same words (except the "layout" and "graphic). >>

This is why my religion teacher said in one of his numerous lessons, ad from that time I started to think and think... and it is not so simple. I do not think it is a question of religion, the unique and important thing must be the respect " if I do not respect you, then I am worth< 0" and also the contrary.

I remember that one time my teacher said << if we go past in the 1930 or 1950 we will see another Bible version, with more "things", words and concept. >> That makes me to thing "oh wait , there is something wrong here" and someone has removed some parts... and he completed with << I think the Quran is not modified, and if you 'catch' an old version of 100-200 years we will find the same words (except the "layout" and "graphic). >>

This is why my religion teacher said in one of his numerous lessons, ad from that time I started to think and think... and it is not so simple. I do not think it is a question of religion, the unique and important thing must be the respect " if I do not respect you, then I am worth< 0" and also the contrary.

The important thing in religion is salvation.

Translations of the Bible into other languages are just that - translations. There are revisions of translations because the language changes, thereby making a revision necessary to match the current form of the language. The Bible does not change.

:)

Lies in that website?  Probably are a few somewhere, or at the least, misunderstandings.  Just like there are lies or misunderstandings on this thread about Islam by the faithful of Islam. 

But let's look at the joyous peace of the last couple of days, as reported by www.thereligionofpeace.com.

2015.05.14 (Kojiti, Nigeria) - Boko Haram open fire on families preparing for bed, killing seven members.
2015.05.14 (Benghazi, Libya) - Seven children are among eight killed when the Islamic State fires a rocket into an apartment building.
2015.05.14 (Palmyra, Syria) - Twenty-six villagers are butchered by the Islamic State, including ten beheaded.
2015.05.14 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - Nine foreigners are among fourteen people massacred when the Taliban storm a guesthouse.
2015.05.14 (Mbau, DRC) - Twenty-three more villagers are hacked to death with machetes and hatchets by ADF Islamists.
2015.05.12 (Bankalaparha, Bangladesh) - Four fundamentalists hack a secular blogger to death with knives on charges of being an atheist.

I appreciate that they nicely handle the "Big Lie", that Islam is "a religion of peace."

But what is the 'native' language of the Bible? I have never find an exhaustive answer to this question. You are right, but sometimes in the translation it is lost the 'sense'.

I knew you would post this after I make that post. Like I said, they aren't instructed by Islam, they are doing it for their own political gains and can be seen easily but I don't think you can as you always have biased opinions and already setup your mind.

Old Testament is Ancient Hebrew. New Testament is, basically Greek, with a little Aramaic.

:)

In a theocracy run by the Big Cleric, there is no difference between politics and religion.

Duhh....

Islam at its core, in its writings, is a religion of deception and violence. Deception because it speaks peace at the same time it speaks violence.

Islam in the vast majority of Muslims (who mostly are ignorant about what Islam's writings say) is a religion of peace.

:)

You clearly don't know what you are talking. You are certainly speaking for internet sources rather than reading Qur'an and Hadiths fully.

Islam is about peace but some of the verses in Qur'an is about violence when non-Muslims tortured and killed Muslims. They had no other choices other than to fight if they want to live.

Oh so you mean none of the 109 or so verses don't count.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

The muslims who do not like people attaching them with ISIS should just scrap their religion. Islam is hated everywhere i have been to. The damage has been done, either accept whatever Islam says[dont nitpick] or leave your religion

We accept what Islam says but it doesn't say to kill innocents like ISIS does.

I do wonder, Zakir, what would you do if the hard liners like ISIS moved into your area, and told you you had New Instructions regarding how to read the Koran and how to present it to people on the Internet.

Would you do what they said?

Of course if you did not the consequences would be severe.

Just a hypothetical question.

Np. A good question, I must say.

1. I have read Qur'an and most hadiths. I am not a "scholar" but I know about my religion pretty well. In my region, we both Muslims ans nob-Muslims are living peacefully. Even my religious teachers don't tell to tease or hurt others.

2. It will be hard for ISIS members to persist here^TM.

3. Even if they try to spread it, I won't accept it as I know the rules and teachings. In my nearest mosques, Imam always warn people about wrong faith like this. So I am pretty sure others won't too.

I don't mean to barge in but I couldn't help notice that you haven't really addressed the crux of the scenario. I'm sure you realize that a LOT of people, if not most, do not join these extremist groups by choice. Would you still be able to uphold your faith as a true Muslim if they break into your home with guns and threaten violence against your loved ones?

I don't mean to barge in but I couldn't help notice that you haven't really addressed the crux of the scenario. I'm sure you realize that a LOT of people, if not most, do not join these extremist groups by choice. Would you still be able to uphold your faith as a true Muslim if they break into your home with guns and threaten violence against your loved ones?

I agree with your opinion. How can a person denied to be an extremist if he or his family was threatened by them. I don't mean a muslim couldn't uphold his faith. I think this is a police or military task to protect the society and help them against the extremist.

you and other muslim haters totally do not understand the meaning of the verse. unless it be means, that is.. remember the Quraan is in Arabic. like you i was perplexed with this quote. so i called a friend, he speaks arabic fluently. i asked him about this, he said in arabic it means that is, but in english there is mistranslation

Sunnis are a branch of Islam that really isn't Islam at all. They simply hold to the name of Islam, recognize Muhammad, and follow a few of the Islamic rules loosely. The Sunni religion is about as free as they come. The do and worship whatever they think is spiritual.

True Islam is found in the Muslims who terrorize. That's why they do it. They are being religiously true to Islam. They are the pure Islamites. All this talk about Islam being a peaceful religion is only being done by people ignorant of Islam (even though they might be Muslims), or by liars. In a few cases Islam peace is being talked about by wishful thinkers.

:)

It doesn't really matter, it's a big book, people will find whatever they need and interpret the way they want t justify their agenda, it's just another big book of multiple choice.

The funny thing here is if a "muslim" would be peaceful, will you think the contrary or not? I hope you understand what I wanted to say.

The funny thing here is if a "muslim" would be peaceful, will you think the contrary or not? I hope you understand what I wanted to say.

Of course there are peaceful Muslims. It is simply that they are not very much Muslim. They are quite ignorant of the religion that they claim to be part of. If they are strong Muslims according to the true Islam, then they are not peaceful to non-Muslims (except when they are lying to the non-Muslims), while they are peaceful to other Muslims.

It is like Christians who say they are Christians and ARE Christians. But they don't go to church except on Christmas and Easter. They almost NEVER read any of the Bible. And they hang out at the bars and nightclubs and whore houses, and curse and drink and swear. But they are still Christians.

Real Christians would never do any of these wrong things.

:)

....

No, I think the native language is most important because it can help "you" to understand better... the other is only a translation.

I told you guys. BADecker always does this. He knows nothing, nothing about Islam. He just want to post big passages of lies to spread hatred and then conclude, "come to Christianity, the ultimate religion". I have no problem with Christians and BADecker is free to spread the religion he believe but he is contradicting his belief because Bible says not to lie and spread hatred/violence while spreading it. I am saying again, feel free to spread Christianity but don't tell lies.

Can't seem to find any Christian terrorists.    ???

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Even in ISIS there are non-Muslims. The terrorists don't follow Islam and claim they are followers. Even non-Muslims in ISIS who knows nothing or very less about Islam claims they are Muslims or better to say, medias tell they are Muslims. Because of this, you shouldn't spread lies about Islam.

Lists of violence directives for Muslims, right out of the Quran: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

:)

....
Like I said many times, they spread disinformation and also that verses are either mistranslated(possible mistranslation(low chance) or out of context verses. Some people quoted it here and I have replied what it is. Almost all of them were out of context verses and also it is for defense not for killing innocents.

Of course, Muslims rubber band the definition of "defense" to include just about anything they want to do, don't they?

All Palestinian bombings of innocent people are of course "Defense".

USA supports Israel, so it is the "Great Satan", so bombing USA is also good "Defense."

I am not saying Zakir makes these rationalizations but they are very commonly done in the Islamic world. 

I understand what you are saying but there are rules for starting a war which obviously those terrorists aren't following and furthermore, they aren't following most rules at all.

This is just about the silliest thing I ever heard.

The only rules for starting war are to make sure you are going to win, or at least be able to escape if you lose.

Guerilla warfare is one of the most successful no-rules forms of warfare. ISIS is doing it.

They have all kinds of rules for themselves... like strike briefly in surprise, and then run away after doing all kinds of damage, before the enemy has a chance to regroup and fight back.

It works both ways - http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-kills-islamic-state-leader-in-syria-raid/2015/05/16/31280b26-fbca-11e4-a13c-193b1241d51a_story.html and http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/17/lawmakers-praise-risky-us-raid-that-killed-isis-leader-aby-sayyaf/ and http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/16/us-conducts-raid-on-isis-in-syria-kills-top-official/.

:)

That is the silliest thing you heard is because you don't know Islamic teachings and rules and just rely on medias.

Now it's you who is essentially calling ISIS Muslims.

:)

Did I? I responded to your first line.

I understand what you are saying but there are rules for starting a war which obviously those terrorists aren't following and furthermore, they aren't following most rules at all.

Clearly Islam embraces diversity.

Those who think Islam is peaceful.
Those who think Islam is peaceful but let's kill all the Jews (somehow it's self defense of course).
Those who think Islam is peaceful but let's kill all the Jews and destroy the Great Satan.
Those who think Islam is not peaceful.
......

What someone in Oman told me. "We pray for the Jihadists, that one day they will convert to Islam."

They are not muslims just mis-guiding the other`s and make them to think bad for muslims and wants to be against the muslims.

If you really want to challenge your beliefs ask yourself if ISIS could be right. No one knows the mind of God, perhaps he fully supports the acts of DASCH. They think so and who am I to disagree? They are much more in line with ancient scriptures like the Bible. Most believers these days make up their own rules and claim God's support. Why? I have not heard him say anything and the ancient scriptures are quite clear that killing is fine to use against  non-beleivers, disobedient children, those who eat shellfish, etc. I suspect God will continue to remain silent on the matter. 

You have good points.

People are representatives of God ...

:)

But Islam doesn't tell to kill all Jews.

I am expanding more on the popular interpretations and beliefs derived from clerics talking up the Koran, rather than your particular beliefs.  Thus, Islam "embraces diversity" - including your beliefs.

Just think, you can have your cake and eat it too.  You can benefit from a "religion of peace" and at the same time, have the advantages of a "religion of violence."