Bitcoin Forum

Thanks for that, posting from tablet here and need to be quick, was easier to post up one place and repost the link.

Thats really sad,but BFL may have a surprise like this for us too  :-[

[23:05:17] Guest79696 [~cp@cablepair.com] is now known as cablepair
[23:05:24] <cablepair> joe are you a customer
[23:05:33] <cablepair> whats your order #
[23:05:47] cablepair [~cp@cablepair.com] is now known as Guest86565
[23:05:54] <Guest86565> fuck brb
[23:05:54] <joe-> lulz
[23:07:47] Guest86565 is Guest86565!~cp@cablepair.com
[23:07:47] Guest86565's real name: BitcoinASIC.com
[23:07:47] Guest86565's channels: #btcfpga
[23:07:47] Guest86565's server: moorcock.freenode.net - TX, USA
[23:07:47] Guest86565's idle time: 0d 0h 0m 16s
[23:07:47] Guest86565's signon time: Mon Jan 7 15:19:48 2013
[23:07:47] Guest86565 is authenticated as cablepair
[23:07:47] Guest86565 WHOIS info from moorcock.freenode.net
[23:07:51] qwebirc78375 [6cad8228@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.173.130.40] has joined #btcfpga
[23:08:27] Guest86565 [~cp@cablepair.com] is now known as cp
[23:08:38] ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has set mode +o cp
[23:08:51] cp [~cp@cablepair.com] has set mode +o buzzdave
[23:09:03] <@cp> seriously
[23:09:08] <@cp> if your not a customer
[23:09:20] <@cp> i dont want to haer it
[23:09:31] <@cp> call me whatever you want
[23:10:14] <Devious1> Good to see you cablepair.
[23:10:32] <@cp> but ther are people in this bitcoin world that trut me with everyhting because they why my word is 100% legit
[23:11:10] <@cp> ive borrowed 100lks of dollars on nothing better than my reputation on irc and paid back more than once
[23:11:15] <MrTeal> Good to see you back Tom.
[23:11:16] <@cp> 100ks
[23:11:24] <@cp> im always back
[23:11:26] <@cp> probably is
[23:11:34] <@cp> idont alreayd have time to deal with irc
[23:11:38] qwebirc78375 [6cad8228@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.173.130.40] is now known as Hawkwood
[23:11:42] <@cp> always
[23:11:53] <@cp> im always here
[23:11:55] <MrTeal> IRC isn't really that important, IMO.
[23:11:57] <arij> hey while your here can you clear up this CNY date mix up ?
[23:12:04] <MrTeal> More a place for people to bitch.
[23:12:11] <@cp> exactly
[23:12:20] <@cp> and thts why
[23:12:25] <MrTeal> Official updates on the forum are much more important.
[23:12:28] <joe-> yes  i am a customer. i use irc to vent instead of the forums
[23:12:53] <@cp> pm me your order number and I wont ban perm bam yopi
[23:13:05] <@cp> call me old school , im been on irc since the early 90s
[23:13:10] <@cp> you dont call me a liar in my own channel
[23:13:15] <@cp> unless you have a right to
[23:13:43] <kanoi>  Cool
[23:13:45] <@cp> now give me a few moments friends i have an important irc meeting
[23:13:46] <@cp> brb
[23:13:56] <arij> the date ...
[23:13:57] <arij> ?
[23:14:05] <arij>
[23:14:09] <@cp> you have an issue pm me
[23:14:13] <@cp> ill be here for a min
[23:14:22] <@cp> now i owe this person a meeting
[23:14:28] <@cp> ill bb
[23:14:35] <joe-> heh, i said we couldnt trust you...because you haven't kept your word on the forums. im just expressing the same opinion as those on the forums.
[23:15:59] <kanoi> lulz - backdown
[23:16:05] <@cp> order #?
[23:16:27] <@cp> ivew been on the furms for almost 3 years
[23:16:31] <@cp> how about you:
[23:17:32] <joe-> i've been there a couple of years, not very active. i won't give you my order #. i prefer to keep my real ident and internet presence separte. call me a coward if you will. privacy is imporant to me
[23:18:15] <@cp> ok so come back in about a month and see if im still a layer
[23:18:32] cp [~cp@cablepair.com] has set mode +b *!*@*.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com
[23:18:33] joe- [~joe@ec2-184-72-29-98.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has been kicked from #btcfpga by cp [~cp@cablepair.com]: joe-
[23:18:42] <@cp> liar
[23:18:44] <@cp> damn its late
[23:18:54] <@cp> 16 days working today
[23:18:58] <@cp> back to meeting...
[23:46:30] <MrTeal> Will there be an update today once you're done your meeting?
[23:47:15] <@cp> yes
[23:52:09] <MrTeal> Great. I think your customers would really appreciate it if you could give a little background on how we got to this point where the chips might cause a further delay.
[23:52:39] <MrTeal> Assuming that the news you got is that the chips will cause a delay.

Rule Number 27:
Don't allow your CEO (or any company rep) release a incomprehensible press release while shit faced drunk and then go onto to get into drunken brawls with customers.  In some instances, it has been know to make a bad situation worse.

D&T rules of business (now available on amazon and kindle)

So far, everything fine.
\/V\_______/\/V\_______/\/V\_______/\/V\_______/\/V\_______/\/V\_______/\/V\_______/\/V\_______/
No longer fine!

but it seems that Tom is getting a bit more heat than deserved

Because the bar is higher. We expect what we get from BFL, we do not from bASIC. I've got units all around the board, with BFL and bASIC. I don't even check the BFL forums anymore because I know there will be no information. But, I expect information when I go to bASIC site due to the transparency that was promised and provided up to november.
 

By spending some/all the pre-order funds to get product out the door they simply can't handle more than a certain % of refunds.  What happens when the number of requests exceed that %?  I don't know for sure but I think we are about to find out.

By law, you must have a reasonable basis for stating that a product can be shipped within a certain time. If your advertising doesn't clearly and prominently state the shipment period, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days.

If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund.

For definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.

Finally, you have the right to cancel orders that you can't fill in a timely manner, but you must promptly notify the customer of your decision and make a prompt refund.

Can't remember the full details, but I think Tom had some investment cash from "prominent members of the Bitcoin community" prior to accepting pre-order money, which is not to say that he hasn't spent all of that and some of the pre-order capital too, but I don't think he was funding the whole venture entirely on pre-payments.

Also like the ModMiner quad this project is being partially funded by lenders in the Bitcointalk lending syndicate. We contracted a well known overseas company to provide us with a SHA256 hashing core that could be applied to Bitcoin mining, this company is one of the top design firms in the world when it comes to SHA256 IP cores. We leased what is called an RTL design which allows us to use any target ASIC process technology of our choice, once we had the core design we spent some money to have some made (this took some time) and turned those over to the hardware development team. We have two guys which I have no problem admitting are much smarter than I am who have come up with a working development board using multiple instances of the hashing core I indicated above. They have a very very (did I mention very?) primitive hacked together mining program that is being used to test, testing has been going on for about 2 weeks now with positive enough results that encouraged me to go public with our next generation of Bitcoin mining product. The hardware guys are still working on finalizing the pcb board design and there is a lot of firmware and software work that needs to be completed.

I am selling my share in BTCFPGA and it is now going to be owned by a asian company that is 100% sure of a March Delivery.  if you are not interested in doing business with this company please feel free to filll out a refund request and we will refund your money is full. There is plenty enough money to make all of these refunds and I have been a pillar of this community for years, so please no panic. Anyone that wants a refund - they will receive one today. Please I ask you to please accept my apologize - if you can wait until March you will receive a superior ASIC mining device, if you lost your trust in me and my company than I dont blame you at all. But please understand I tried the best at the best of my ability and I can't take any of this anymore. I am not the right man for this job. Your new ASIAN benefactors will be online soon to greet you all and see where were are at and hopefully they can calm some of your nerves.

Tom has sold his interest in bASIC.


https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=954.msg2804#msg2804

On a somewhat off-topic bent, I wonder if on a small scale, the ASIC world portends the general trend of the future. bASIC and BFL being two US based companies, Avalon and ASICMiner being two asia based companies; we see ASICMiner with chips in hand, Avalon with a supremely confident air as to delivering mid-January. For contrast we see BFL with continual delays and apologies, and bASIC basically folding up shop completely (in favor of selling to an Asian company).

He sold it to... the Asians... is this guy serious?

He sold it to... the Asians... is this guy serious?

The un-named ASIANS, no less.  No company name, no background information on who'll now be running the bASIC project, no information about when Tom will hand over the reins (which should include user pre-order funds).  Nothing except someone other than Tom who can now be blamed if refunds aren't processed or if hardware isn't delivered in March.

I hope they are relic hunters.

HAHAHAHHAHA another fucking scammer on this forum.  What a piece of shit.

I wonder how many people bought basic when the coins were worth around half of what they are now.  Cablepair would make out good if he just sold them now and gave the new company the dollars.  With that kind of scam he could really spend more time with his family.   

Cablepair would make out good if he just sold them now and gave the new company the dollars.  With that kind of scam he could really spend more time with his family.   

Might be time for a scammer tag. 

What's your fuckin' hurry? We're only on Page 3. This is at least a fifty pager, for there's a whole slew of facts and fictions that have yet to be presented. For instance, how this all got started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qayDBYEt160

please wipe your mouth after the swallow......

What's your fuckin' hurry? We're only on Page 3. This is at least a fifty pager, for there's a whole slew of facts and fictions that have yet to be presented.

Whatever you do, make sure you have enough food and beverages left for the next major challenge (*cough* BFL).

In Tom's defense, I would like to say that he tried. He finally handed it over to someone else to fulfill the orders.

Keep in mind he was doing the job of many individuals. I believe that was a grave mistake. But he tried and when it wasn't working out he said so.

New Management will [fortunately] take over and hopefully the project he started will continue until it's completion and shipping date. I don't know about you, but to me Tom was a nice guy. He promised a 72Gh/s system and I believe it will come out eventually.

That's just one persons opinion though. Even I have my personal bias like any other person.

Why am i not in the slightest bit suprised??

In Tom's defense, I would like to say that he tried.

I said back in November that I thought Tom's company would be the first Bitcion hardware manufacture to go bankrupt, and now my words are appearing to be coming true, but not yet. So let us take a closer look and maybe ask a few questions. With Toms' 5 figure monthly salary, rent on office/production space at about $1500 per month, $100k+ development costs, a refund request rate at about 12 to every 1 that is willing to wait it out and a profit margin in the neighborhood of 500% per unit sold, how long before total bankruptcy ensues?

As far as I know Tom never setup an LLC, Inc. or other type of incorporation. This makes Tom personally liable financially and legally for all debts and felonious activities. I advised Tom in November to seek legal counsel. My guess is right about now he wish he had taken my advice. But no, he was too smug and thought I was just trolling him instead of trying to help him.

I made a thread and several posting trying to raise the level of scepticism about Tom and his offering because I saw numerous problems. My approach was to deal with the issues I saw one at a time but the community and moderators attacked me and removed my postings. The moderators were just too chummy with Tom to allow my questioning of Tom to occur. When I challenged Tom he locked his thread within days and ran away. And now when things get tough for him again, he runs away and dumps responsibility on another to pick up the pieces of his failed life endeavours. Just like when I called him out on the FCC issue he said something like, "but the other do it too", bumping responsibility on others. So I decided to just let the community go down with the ship without providing a life preserver. It leads me to wonder how many more enforcement agencies might begin an investigation into Toms' activities.

I can image how stupid Toms' 'shills' are feeling right about now. I know if I were a customer of Toms' I would be demanding a refund as soon as possible. I doubt that all of Toms' customers will be getting their money back. My advice to those that still wish to buy a product from Tom would be get your refund to be safe and secure, and when the mystery new asian company (if this isn't a continuing con) starts producing an ASIC product and proves it as functional and real, then reorder.

I do believe that Tom tried to produce an ASIC product. I also believe that fairly soon he realized he couldn't so be began to con people into thinking that all was okay because it was the only solution he knew. He lied to himself, he lied to the community and most importantly he lied to his customers. And because if this Tom does deserve the SCAMMER tag.

One thought I had but wasn't going to bring up was suicide, but sense Tom did I will. Tom on irc spoke about cutting his wrists open. Is Tom going to be the first person to commit suicide because of Bitcoin? It is a grim thought but one that has to be asked. Those that attempt suicide often speak of it before attempting it. But maybe this is just a ploy to get attention, to get people to feel sorry for the poor bastard, and not to call him a scammer.

Anyone want to place odds on how long it will be before Tom gets sued or possibly jailed?

If he runs alot of people know where he lives.  I would reckon that people might pay him and his family a visit.  I'm sure they will all be spending more time together after this.

There were people offering assassination services or something to bAsic customers on the BFL forums earlier today.

 ...Looks like I will have to order from BFL now....

out of the frying pan into the fire.... people are like lemmings

I am amused by your post. Is it now considered lemming like to order a BFL SC once they are shipping? I don't believe I stated I was pre-ordering, which would of course make more sense with your reply. Too clarify, I am going too now wait for a product too ship then place my order. Troll away.

Even if Tom did spend the preorder money and the company goes bankrupt without being able to refund all the preorders, I think a quick search of the forum would show he doesn't have a lot to worry about. It's not like Pirate's identity is hidden, and after Pirate's blatant scam fell apart all the keyboard rage here didn't produce anything.

Asked for a refund for all my ordered bASICs.

Hope He WILL send my money back, unlike other people in this community!

Even if Tom did spend the preorder money and the company goes bankrupt without being able to refund all the preorders, I think a quick search of the forum would show he doesn't have a lot to worry about. It's not like Pirate's identity is hidden, and after Pirate's blatant scam fell apart all the keyboard rage here didn't produce anything.

Pol Pot killed 1.7 million people. We can't even deal with that! You know, we think if somebody kills someone, that's murder, you go to prison. You kill 10 people, you go to Texas, they hit you with a brick, that's what they do. 20 people, you go to a hospital, they look through a small window at you forever. And over that, we can't deal with it, you know? Someone's killed 100,000 people. We're almost going, "Well done! You killed 100,000 people? You must get up very early in the morning. I can't even get down the gym! Your diary must look odd: “Get up in the morning, death, death, death, death, death, death, death – lunch- death, death, death -afternoon tea - death, death, death - quick shower…"

Here's the latest -
Tom has been working very hard to find a way to keep project bASIC moving forward.  I believe he has found a way to do this.  He will pull back from the project day-to-day and act as an adviser only.  He still has lots of valuable knowledge and contacts for this project and it would be terrible to lose him completely.

Tom wants to find the best solution for the customers and doesn't want to introduce any further delay, but he needs to step back from this.  He's shouldered a tremendous amount of pressure and stress and its become too much for him to bear alone.  However, he has brought us a very long way toward the ultimate goal.

There are new player(s) that have come to the fore pledging to support this project - this may come as a complete buyout or by taking a cash equity position - the details are being hammered out over the next day or two.  Tom has already put this project in the hands of a new team who will be able to realize his original vision, delivering all customer units by March.

These new people have a few things the project can really use: active involvement with Bitcoin, technical expertise, connections, experience, money.  No its not any of our competitors.  You will learn who the players are only when the deal is done and everything is nailed down.

Due to the delay with chip fab, the new team believes we *must* provide proof-of-tech.  Tomorrow I will post up a hard date by which we will deliver a video showing a hashing unit.  This will not be a production unit, but it will show that the hard work has been done (the chips work, the PCB design is complete).

Thanks to all you who are taking a supporting position on this project - you really prove to me that there is a positive community here who really wants to see bASIC succeed.

Due to the delay with chip fab, the new team believes we *must* provide proof-of-tech.

I'm waiting on refunds for 4 x 72Gh/s bASICs, and mortified to learn that it's up to Tom to process my refund, when he gets around to it apparently.

Also I've noticed someone deleted my msg on his forum asking Tom to refund my orders rather than waste time posting asking us to "believe him" or whatever he's saying now!

I have such a bad feeling about this now, I am planning my next step.  I know my chances of getting my BTC back are slim to none, but I now wonder which law enforcement agency should I be contacting about this?

Tom & Dave, if you're reading this - understand that those of us who want refunds DON'T BELIEVE YOU ANYMORE.  Stop making excuses and refund us our money!  How long does it take to send btc???  wtf?

Return my funds for my four orders #s: 945,1375,1480, 2090 by sending the BTC to 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW. 

Anyone interested could see that Tom isn't a scammer after all by looking at the balance:
http://blockexplorer.com/search/1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW
what better way to give some confidence to the customers who still believe in you than to give us our refunds now!

I'd like my money back IMMEDIATELY (what I sent, not the $ equivilent today, I'm not interested in subsidizing you), otherwise I will do everything I can to go after Tom, Dave, and the non-existent btcfpga through all available legal channels. 

Would be nice if Dave would focus 100% on getting people back their refunds.. keep seeing him dabble on the forums which isn't where the refund requests are sent to.

Tom - Quite frankly:

-I have seen how "things" develop when you are involved - you failed / not interested

-I have witnessed the use of you giving "your personal word" numerous times - doesn't mean anything / not interested

-I (along with many others) have given you a chance to get organized  - you failed / not interested

The number one priority right now should be YOU and DAVE processing refund requests until they are completed with little work on a "buyout" or "change of management" deal.  You at least after all this nonsense bullshit storm owe us the courtesy to quit jacking us around and honor the refunds NOW.

There should be a "Refund(s) Received Thread" started to track this as this will be my last attempt to wait before I hit up charge back land.

Ive been in talks with members from the Bitcoin community and thank God

it Looks more like the Bitcoin community itself will be buying this company - not some un-known asian company

I encourage all of you - please see how things develop over the next couple of days before you make your refund.

I give you my personal word BitcoinASIC is under new management and we guarantee delivery by March.


Give us a chance to get organized and then make your decision because bASIC is moving forward. Any customer that sticks around will have a bASIC unit hashing away in March GUARANTEED.

I posted a message directly after that one that Tom posted, asking him to spend time refunding my money rather than asking for more trust.  It was deleted...  

"How can you expect the same amount of BTC back  ??? You are an idiot!!! You will get back the amount of BTC at CURRENT blah blah woof woof"

I am an idiot for expecting back what I gave him?   If I paid him 10 potatoes, I would expect 10 potatoes back.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1034.msg3051#msg3051

By not giving out refunds at this time, it sounds like Tom is forcing people to wait a few days and hear him out before every single order abandons ship.

By not giving out refunds at this time, it sounds like Tom is forcing people to wait a few days and hear him out before every single order abandons ship.

If you are given the 10 potatoes you paid with you would have 10 rotten potatoes...

Seriously, you bought some $USD worth of ASICs with Bitcoins, you'll get the same $USD worth with Bitcoins. If the Bicoin price had plummeted I assume you wouldn't want the same amount of Bitcoins but their $USD worth. I can understand you are pissed at the delays but it doesn't give you a magical right to be protected from the BTC/USD volatility.
At the moment you pre-ordered you converted your Bitcoins in $USD the same way you would have if you used a foreign currency, simple as that.

If the price *did* go down to 4USD, I bet I *would* be getting BTC back, not $ right?

The rule is always the same: you buy something valued in USD, your refund is in USD. If you can't wrap your mind around this simple fact, maybe you should limit your purchase to local merchants or established businesses. You purchased from a one-man company on a high risk field (nobody even has publicly demonstrated an hashing ASIC today) and complain because your refund isn't in the money you dreamed it would be?

If it did matter to you, I assume you asked before you purchased? Why are you surprised then?

These ASICs mishaps will have one positive effect: at least people purchasing mining equipment telling themselves fairy tales will look a get rich quick scheme elsewhere.

Some of you make so many (wrong) assumptions.  Look, I'd like the btc I sent them, it's really none of your business is it?

"How can you expect the same amount of BTC back  ??? You are an idiot!!! You will get back the amount of BTC at CURRENT blah blah woof woof"

I am an idiot for expecting back what I gave him?   If I paid him 10 potatoes, I would expect 10 potatoes back.   I understand your "logic" of the price being fixed to USD etc, I might even agree with this *IF* this was a legit company and I was asking for a refund for some random reason.. That is not what is happening!!!  Put yourself in my shoes maybe.. If I was given some commodity from you, say an ounce of gold from you, for some purpose, then 6 months later you caught up to me and discovered everything I had promised was b.s. and lies and demanded your ounce of gold back, would you be cool w/ me checking the spot rate for gold, to discover gold has gone up a lot actually, so you won't get 1 ounce back but maybe 20% less?  Would that be fair?  The scammer gets the profit? Is that what bitcoin is about?

I'm demanding my btc back because I've been lied to.  3 of those basics were to ship December, the fourth one in January. Various promises and guarantees turned out to be pure lies, so I want back what I sent him.  They were lying all along.  I was an idiot for sending my btc, perhaps, but not for demanding it back. I work hard for money, and this represents my savings, why should Tom profit further from the btc I sent him?  Do you think we'd be discussing $ equivalent if the btc price had gone down not up?

We don't all suck the reps "TANG" you tool. Not everyone is like you. Now go back into your closet role.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2ujpj7t.jpg

As a matter of fact it is. I pre-ordered 2 bASIC1 and didn't ask a refund because I know enough about the background here to still trust Tom.
If Tom gave refund in the original amount of BTC while he was paid in USD he would give more than he got and would lose money. If BTCFPGA loose too much money it might not be able to maintain enough funds to reach ASIC delivery.

So your childish attitude is a threat to my investment. Don't be surprised if I have an opinion...

By the way, by your logic, would you refund my purchase if your actions set a trend where everyone would be reimbursed the same amount of BTC they paid and that leads to BTCFPGA's bankruptcy?

Your making another assumption - this time that the BTC I sent tom was converted to USD, how do you know that's the case for sure???  Are you Tom?

If your investment is actually a scam, then it's you who are in the wrong by supporting it against me!

I'm only asking for the btc I gave them back.  I didn't sign up for any ASIAN benefactors or any of the rest of the craziness that's been going on!  I've been waiting since Monday for my refund btw.

 If your concerned about your "investment" then go hassle tom and dave to pay back the people who are demanding their money for god's sakes.  Go after the scammer, dumbass, not the other victims of the scam.

Ouch did I get too close to the truth and now your all butt hurt? That's soo funny. HAHAHAHA

Lame comeback....

With bitcoin going up generally, the USD crashing generally, why do you think it's a good idea to have converted BTC into USD when it was at 11?  You mean the outcome that occurred; i.e. btc going up so trading BTC for USD would have been a bad move, wasn't the likely one?  Tom doesn't believe in bitcoin?  Wtf?

I have such a bad feeling about this now, I am planning my next step.  I know my chances of getting my BTC back are slim to none, but I now wonder which law enforcement agency should I be contacting about this?

ASIC development is a fast business :-) We can not wait. We need to restructure the bASIC project within days.

We will setup a new management structure, change the information policy (boost transparency), review the technology status and the financial situation.

Only after proposing and implementing changes we will have an idea about the chances of success (potential future profitability of bASIC / BTCFPGA, LLC) and the timing of the first delivery. According to what I know since yesterday the March deadline is feasible ... but we will never claim that this is the ultimate deadline :-)

Oh, good, another obscure pseudocorp in Onaboatistan. That'll help.

@ MichaelBliss

I can only speak to my understand of US law and I haven't fully researched what I'm about to speak of, further it is not meant to be legal advice.

My understanding is there are consumer protection laws that require a product purchased, on a website within the US, to be shipped within a maximum of 60 days. These consumer protection laws at the least have civil sanctions and at the most criminal penalties. So when a refund is issues the most you can lose is the difference in currency value conversion of 60 days from date of purchase. It can be argued, maybe unsuccessfully, if additional purchases were made that the date for which the clock begins starts at the date of the first purchase. So at a maximum the amount refunded must be calculated at 60 days from purchase, if not shipped within 60 days, and not longer. If any funds are transferred via an electronic method (Bitcion or bank wire transfers) that are not in accordance with the 60 days from purchase calculation it would constitute wire fraud. If the funds are transferred not in accordance with the 60 days from purchase calculation via a mail system (USPS, Fedex, UPS, DHL) using a monetary instrument it would constitute mail fraud.

It is also my understanding that if an electronic device is transferred via a mail system, that requires FCC regulation compliance and the device is not in compliance with regulations, to a US customer it would constitute mail fraud. As I have stated before I am unaware that Tom has any type of incorporation that would protect himself or his employees from civil and criminal penalties.

Is Tom going to pay for Dave's criminal defense attorney and how, with your preorder funds? Is Dave willing to go to jail because Tom directed Dave to engage in felonious activity? Are the new owners going to assume the financial liability for Dave's criminal defense? Will Dave sue Tom or his company for liability if a criminal prosecution occurs? Or will the new owners just buy the intellectual property from Tom?

Dave, you might want to seek a free consultation with a criminal defense attorney. It is better to be safe than sorry. Although the damage might have already been done but you can mitigate further damage by terminating your employment with Tom.

If you want to exact your pound of flesh, one might start by filling criminal activity reports with the district attorney's office in the county where Tom resides, the New York Attorney General's office, the FBI, the FCC, the Mail Inspector General's office and your local law enforcement agencies.

Ignorance of the law is not an accepted legal defense.

Again: What would an ASIC vendor want with the boatloads of BTC they would be getting? They can't sell them without crashing the economy and you can't buy anything with them either. You can't feed your family on rig exhaust dried strawberries and honey glazed nuts alone. Or at least you shouldn't.

You seem kinda melty.

Here, have a video of the bAsic ASIC hashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANdvNeLuuDY

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:



Pathetic

Why does this remind me of a scam that happened a little while ago?

EDIT: Link doesn't work? :/

Focusing on refunds today.  I just want to illustrate a few points for the folks that are waiting for refunds:

-we have a lot of refund requests.  I'm looking at working straight through 2 to 3 solid days to process them.  Please be patient.
-in order to refund orders we must move money out of savings.  This takes time as it is a money wire.  Please be patient so we can finish this process. 
-threats of chargebacks just slow everything down.  I now have to double check that a dispute has not been filed, prior to initiating the refund.  This should be an unnecessary added step, but now I have to do that too.
-a big batch of BTC refunds is being sent to Tom today.

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:



Pathetic

Why does this remind me of a scam that happened a little while ago?

EDIT: Link doesn't work? :/

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1128 - bASIC will not ship ASIC products in 2013

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

I don't get the point of these ridiculous betsofbitcoin. I really have to tie up my Bitcoins for 11 months just to prove a point one way or the other? I'd rather bet with my wallet and order some damn ASICs, and in 11 months we'll see who's laughing.

You think that's bad? Look at some of the ones that end in 3 or 5 years.

Are you serious?  Here's a link to my empty wallet, waiting for refunds from bASIC and BFL (I asked BFL yesterday, got a response today urging me to reconsider but it looks like at least BFL will refund me).  

http://blockexplorer.com/search/1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW

Has anybody received a refund from bASIC?  

Again: that video is a joke right?  I ordered ASICs with my $4k+ , not this video.

^ bahahahahah

he has edited his drama scenarios numerous times thus far...


ding ding ding

http://s7.postimage.org/va1lew6fb/2013_01_10_00_48_19.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/va1lew6fb/)

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

Edit: So y'all can watch along at home, my refund request address is: 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ  I'm expecting a refund in the amount of $2199.98.

Edit: I do see that Dave emailed me about 3 hours ago asking for clarification.  Replied just now.

I may leave for NY tomorrow too

It is this type of changing story which degrades confidence.

Earlier you stated you were going to NY. (see below)
Now you state you may.

Don't say you will do a thing and then not do it.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1032.0 (https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1032.0)
January 10, 2013, 06:15:24 PM » Tonight I will get on an 11:45PM red eye to NY

Its a dynamic situation to be sure.  I could just not update people - that works well too.

I could just not update people - that works well too.

Its a dynamic situation to be sure.  I could just not update people - that works well too.

UPDATE:
Got my refund from BFL around midnight this morning (about a day after I asked).  Thanks BFL, no hard feelings and good luck.  My single is hashing away, and I'd be a fool not to re-order my upgrade once these things actually EXIST.  I just can't afford to finance anybody's ASIC development any longer..

Still waiting on my larger refund from bASIC, I've been lead to believe I can expect it each day for the last few, so I really hope to receive it today.  Cablepair if your reading this, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY refund my orders #s: 945,1375,1480, 2090 to 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW. 

Help me get a good night's sleep.  I will post an update the moment I see it come through!

I don't normally read or post here but I did want to check in.  Bogart your refund is on the list for tomorrow.  This list is going to Tom *and* a new team member who is on a plane right now to go assist Tom.

***UPDATE***

Just received  BTC (USD equivalent) at 10:33PST, 15 minutes ago.  THANK YOU!

I think USD equivalent is fair (though I'm out 20%) *IF* my btc was converted when I sent it to USD.  I'll concede that's  fair, and I don't want more than what's just and fair.  (Never mind that I unwittingly provided an interest free loan - or rather, a negative interest loan!)

BUT, if my BTC wasn't converted to USD then it's only fair I get the exact amount of BTC I sent, yeah?  Can cablepair or Dave confirm that you were having bitpay convert BTC into USD?  I'll take your word for it, and if the answer is "yes", then I'll agree we're all square.  But if you didn't convert my BTC, please do the right thing and send the remainder of my coins back (~54BTC).

Apart from this - thank you Dave and Tom and I sincerely wish you best of luck with the project.  I would only suggest you implement your transparency policy as promised, this would do a lot to get people like me back one day.

Can cablepair or Dave confirm that you were having bitpay convert BTC into USD?

That, is none of your business.

You conveyed the asset / funds to them. After that it is under their control to do with as they wish.

It sort of is. If they're keeping everyone's money as bitcoins and the value of bitcoins goes down, they won't have the money to give everyone who demands a refund the full USD amount they're owed. It'd be as though they were taking everyone's pre-order funds, using them to gamble that Bitcoin prices will go up or stay the same, and then pocketing the winnings whilst their customers are the ones whose money is at risk.

Last I checked refunds are not free.

Wire transfers cost money half of the time. Especially overseas.

Paypal would be unlikely to tolerate large numbers of refunds even on a business account. They are probably issuing cash to various accounts by means of various loop holes.

Transferring money from one domestic bank to another is probably the cheapest way to go about it.

Requested a refund on 8 Jan / Tuesday - still nothing today..  CC was used.. I have held back on doing a charge back.. will give it until Tuesday next week.

Requested a refund on 8 Jan / Tuesday - still nothing today..  CC was used.. I have held back on doing a charge back.. will give it until Tuesday next week.

Yeah julz made some good points.  Though  we probably all expected BTC to go up rather than down, so it's not exactly a 50/50 gamble w/ the exchange rate.  But yeah, I'm out > $700 on the deal and not expecting it or anything. Yeah, buyer beware, I see your guys' points too.  I should count my blessings  ;) and consider myself lucky.

So let me get this straight: the only reason people were getting BTC refunds was because Dave and Lukas were urging Tom to. Then Tom is supposed to provide crucial information about the ASICs, and instead he packs up and leaves town. Their bank account does not have enough funds to process CC refunds because Tom was in charge of that, too. Now, we have no idea where Tom is, we don't know if people are even going to be getting refunds (CC or BTC), the BTCFPGA forum is still under lockdown, and we have absolutely zero information about the status of the bASIC's development. And all of this is directly from the 2 remaining bASIC team members. Talk about a shit storm!

So let me get this straight: the only reason people were getting BTC refunds was because Dave and Lukas were urging Tom to. Then Tom is supposed to provide crucial information about the ASICs, and instead he packs up and leaves town. Their bank account does not have enough funds to process CC refunds because Tom was in charge of that, too. Now, we have no idea where Tom is, we don't know if people are even going to be getting refunds (CC or BTC), the BTCFPGA forum is still under lockdown, and we have absolutely zero information about the status of the bASIC's development. And all of this is directly from the 2 remaining bASIC team members. Talk about a shit storm!

At this point, if you are thinking of sending me a refund request, I recommend you do a chargeback instead.

Wow.  I count myself lucky to have escaped with a refund, paying only the currency depreciation.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

Wow.  I count myself lucky to have escaped with a refund, paying only the currency depreciation.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

Me too!  The "believer's" from a couple days back should be embarrassed. 

Beyond that, I would like to say that if Tom runs off, we have lost a good man in the BTC world.

Poor Tom.  I hope he comes through this OK.  It sounds like he's in a bad place.

I think the business is lost.  I hope he can keep his family.

Bummer, requested a refund on the 8th and he didn't pull through.  How hard is it to do a chargeback?

Call your credit card company and "dispute" the charge.  They should walk you through the process.

Time limits for depositing transactions are set to ensure timely processing and billing to
cardholders . When you hold transactions beyond the period defined in your merchant agreement
(usually one to five days), you lose money, affect customer service (cardholders expect to see
transactions on their Visa statements within the same or next monthly cycle), and possibly invite
a chargeback . No remedies exist for chargebacks on sales receipts deposited 181 days or longer
after the transaction date.

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/chargeback-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf


I'm not sure if the text in bold applies.

BFL is next I would bet.

I got my BTC refund from them, and i am happy about it - because i suggested my chances  50/50 . Wish luck to Tom take control  the situation !

Looks like Tom might have a new home soon(jail).  I hope this piece of crap rots in there. 

BFL is next I would bet.

The problem here was that there was too much pressure on one guy...BFL is structured differently.

AFAIK, BFL is not in the position where one person can crash their entire system. It's still a small company, but you don't get to 25 employees by making mistakes like that.

BFL is a marketing company (and an incredibly poor one, in many aspects). Their business is keeping those Google ads up and siphoning the incoming money into more or less safe holes. Everything else is everyone else's problem.

Well shit.

Has anyone gotten any CC refunds yet? I asked on 1-6 and of course nothing has shown up yet. I realize the BTC have gone out somewhat, so...anyone gotten anything on this front? Sad that my bank is closed till monday  :-\

This why I don't think BFL is in the same danger of failing like bASIC did....

Looks like Tom might have a new home soon(jail).  I hope this piece of crap rots in there.  

Well shit.

Has anyone gotten any CC refunds yet? I asked on 1-6 and of course nothing has shown up yet. I realize the BTC have gone out somewhat, so...anyone gotten anything on this front? Sad that my bank is closed till monday  :-\

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:



Pathetic

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

I first paid 93.8326 BTC to 1CpZJF9jwbR3SZmk4i6HaPfp59VPpXAcP5 for my later order #1678 in this transaction:

http://blockchain.info/tx/4cff94125296a7d6e8a86e9ddc7681f2bfd203ea006e0dfa64edc3269a5e936b

A couple hours later the funds get swept into 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa, which seems a main BTCFPGA address.

Much later, my refund paid to 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ gets paid from this same 19Ysiz address.

If you look up MichaelBliss's refund request address, 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW, you will see that a large part of his refund also came from the 19Ysiz address.

Now here's the bad part:

Remember Tom's 500 BTC bet that bASIC would ship in March?


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ah3W7i9L8GMJ:https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D1039.0+http://betsofbitco.in/item%3Fid%3D1138&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

11-Jan 7:51 AM, 500.00 BTC move out of the 19Ysiz account: http://blockchain.info/tx/c290b3d26e5344b0dfc7545b083cc9d28aa607237e11fa7543287841464ee4de

11-Jan 12:06 PM (after some confirmations) Tom announces the 500 BTC bet made with "my Own coin"

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

The statement is not yet available for betting.  Maybe Dave intervened and had BoB not approve the bet and hold the funds or something.  Or maybe BoB staff themselves are watching what's going on and decided to do the same.

Oh man, this is becoming worse and worse each day.

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

I think it is highly likely he had everything mixed together - but why is this automatically assumed to be inappropriate? MtGox certainly stores all the user balances together, and bitcoind does so even if you have separate accounts setup. Perhaps ideally, things might be different, but that doesn't change the reality or realistic expectations.

I've now asked for a refund.  On the positive side bASICs bitcoins are easily found.  My 9/29/12 payment went to 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa (https://blockchain.info/address/19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa).  A ton of money was paid out of that address on 1/11/2012.  At least one of them is a bASIC refund reported here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135301.msg1448240#msg1448240).  There is currently 1,555.9054 BTC at that address.  That is enough to pay me back.

Sam

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

To me, the issue is really that if he didn't convert the BTC to USD, how were the ASIC R&D funded? Tom collects BTC and then pays for the chips development out of his own USD profits from the MMQ? Seems unlikely, as that can bet pretty expensive I would imagine.

I'm not a fan of MPOE-PR but here's the best description of BFL that I've seen:
Think about it.

Lukas seems to be in position to take over bASICs operation if the assets are there: http://www.linkedin.com/in/lukasbradley

I made a CC refund last Wed and Dave sent an email saying it will be processed. No updates after that.

To me, the issue is really that if he didn't convert the BTC to USD, how were the ASIC R&D funded? Tom collects BTC and then pays for the chips development out of his own USD profits from the MMQ? Seems unlikely, as that can bet pretty expensive I would imagine.

I am out, too. Requested Refund 5 min ago. Feeling a bit buddfact. Still I believe, Tom worked in good faith.

1NpZwAn2m9nnKVuoZWwQgkKcKBkKD2tNNv is the address, if someone wants to make looky looky.

Damn, wished it would have gone down differently, but too many PR mistakes fuelled the refunds.

And Damn BFL and Basic. Oneself probably would have made an asic by now?!?!?

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

No Luke you're wrong. It is his choice and his risk as long as he is able to deliver what we - the customers - paid. If he never delivers ASICs it's a speculation on the back of his 'customers'. If the BTC price is rising Tom wins, if the BTC price is falling we are loosing. And now it seems that all customer who paid BTC are screwed independant of the BTC price. Tom should have exchanged those funds to USD and maybe spent them to create this damn bASIC chip and not speculate on rising BTC prices!

With this new information the only acceptable choice would be a full BTC refund, a bASIC device or to let him burn like hell! The last point seems to be the most realistic one.

... we all expect bitcoin will more likely go up, than down don't we?

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

No Luke you're wrong. It is his choice and his risk as long as he is able to deliver what we - the customers - paid. If he never delivers ASICs it's a speculation on the back of his 'customers'. If the BTC price is rising Tom wins, if the BTC price is falling we are loosing. And now it seems that all customer who paid BTC are screwed independant of the BTC price. Tom should have exchanged those funds to USD and maybe spent them to create this damn bASIC chip and not speculate on rising BTC prices!

With this new information the only acceptable choice would be a full BTC refund, a bASIC device or to let him burn like hell! The last point seems to be the most realistic one.

Agreed.  When you make a purchase denominated in US dollars, it is the equivalent of selling your bitcoins for USD on the spot and then paying those dollars to the vendor.  Unlike what some people on these forums believe, the price of BTC is not guaranteed to go up.  Imagine the shitstorm that would occur if BTC had fallen against the dollar and then Tom refunded people their exact BTC payments.

Avalon made it perfectly clear that when we placed our order it would be as if we were selling our BTC for USD at the price that the order was placed.

This whole argument is kind of moot since people aren't getting refunds at all.

Should have received a refund last week. Requested a refund on Jan 6.

Tom tells me we've paid out well over $200k in refunds from the bank account and $100k in BTC refunds - and they will continue.  Tom has paid me up on my recent invoice as well.  He continues to demonstrate that he is committed to working this out and taking care of the customers with the same integrity he shown in the past.

I'm hopeful that we will reach a tentative agreement early in the week, with a more formal deal signed by end of week.  More to come...

That's the default assumption for any site/sale that only shows prices in USD.

No. If there is a statement that they accept payment in bitcoins and they quote a price in bitcoins! If customers select the bitcoin payment option then they are offered a price in bitcoins. So, in case of a refund they must get back the same amount in bitcon they have originally paid.

No. If there is a statement that they accept payment in bitcoins and they quote a price in bitcoins! If customers select the bitcoin payment option then they are offered a price in bitcoins. So, in case of a refund they must get back the same amount in bitcon they have originally paid.

I'm seeing only USD prices.

Any BTC price is clearly generated based on current market rates.

-Product was paid for with BTC.

-BTC were not converted to fiat and keep in one wallet.

I'm seeing BTC price as well. If I didn't see such a price how would I know how much BTC I had to pay YOUR COMPANY?.

Good news from Dave on the bASIC forums:

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3096#msg3096 (https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3096#msg3096)

-Product was paid for with BTC.
-BTC were not converted to fiat and keep in one wallet.
-Refunds for those who paid with BTC are now getting lesser BTC back.
-Somebody is doing the calculations.
-Who? and Why?

If I were to start some fictitious entity that sold pre-orders for some product, and accepted and amassed Bitcoin, with the hope of bitcoins to increase in value, this is the way I would do it. After a period of time, whether the price goes up or down, I fold. If it goes down, I'm out very little and time when I return all bitcoins. If it goes up, I return the dollar amount, thus pocketing the profit. In this case, it's averaging about a 20% return, on how many bitcoins? The CC charges will be handled separately or I wouldn't have accepted any. If I operate as a crock, not only do I get to keep the 20% profit, but I would also not pay back all the vendors and play catch-me-if-you-can.

No. If there is a statement that they accept payment in bitcoins and they quote a price in bitcoins!

What email address are people using to contact Dave?

If you sent me mail prior to 1/11, and the status doesn't reflect what you expect, resend the mail.  My most reliable email seems to be dave@bitcoinasic.com, but I have also found some requests in my spam folder, due to the origin of the emailer.  I'll try to check that frequently. (https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3096#msg3096)

It's like me complaining that I paid in GBP and got back less GBP because the US dollar got weaker.

So, what is the best way to request a refund?
Is there a Personal Email available? PM on Bitcointalk?

Tried the website, but I'm doubtful.

thanks.

I'm seeing BTC price as well. If I didn't see such a price how would I know how much BTC I had to pay YOUR COMPANY?

Market rates? As defined by BitPay? Okay, then I'll contact BitPay for such a refund! I don't care which company will refund my bitcoin payment.

1. If you were quoted a price in GBP, you have the right to get same amount GBP in case of a refund.
2. How many websites have you seen pricing their products ONLY in USD and informing their customers that they accept payments in GBP as well? I know how many. ZERO!
3. If my credit card account is run in GBP and I want to purchase a product priced in USD, the credit card processing company is contacting the credit card issuer to make the currency conversion and TRANSFER on my behalf USD! If I'm paying with bitcoins what I TRASFER is bitcoins, not USD! The refund is nothing else than the reversal of a transfer! The original transfer and the reversal of the transfer must be in the same currency and in the same amount. This is why it is called refund! If I pay with bitcoins the currency of the TRANSFER is bitcoins!

so there are still people sticking with them until march?

It's like me complaining that I paid in GBP and got back less GBP because the US dollar got weaker.


Irrelevant. The payment is USD with live conversion, hence the refund should be USD with live conversion.

If I pay with bitcoins the currency of the TRANSFER is bitcoins!

I have also seen the hashing performance stats on a working pre-prod unit!

With all due respect, Nathan, for I have no qualms with you (seriously), but for discussion purposes only, consider another scenario.

What if Bitcoin 100 ceased to exist for some reason and all funds currently residing in a main wallet needed to be returned? Some of those donations were collected when Bitcoin was barely north of $2.00 USD per. Should I/we calculate the exchange rate for all the donations at the time they were given and return the exact dollar amount in BTC, or should we/I return the exact Bitcoin amount that was donated? If the former, Roger Ver would not be happy but, OTOH, the balance of Zhou Tong's donation would be pocketed. Of course, I would have Dave Rassah do the accounting math.

Bitcoin 100 has no such clause as to how funds would be returned if such a scenario were to play out. One reason for being such is that I don't control the wallet. Rassah and Roger are the only two people capable of moving coins. But the right thing to do would be to return the exact Bitcoin amount, for there's three reputations at stake, surely two, and most definitely at least one.

To be clear, I not trying to start a shitstorm with you Nate, but would love to continue this friendly discussion if it's warranted.

Dave, can you tell us exactly what you saw, for the good of the project and those invested in it?

Thanks.

Screenshot?

Taking a quick look at the website, I'm seeing all figures in BTC only (hence accounting should be in BTC); USD or CAD or GBP is irrelevant. If BTC is the primary or sole currency then logically the refunds should be exact BTC values.


Agreed, but I doubt we'll ever agree.

Sure, no problem.

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8656/bflk.jpg

Happy now?

I would also like to know this; I'd guess from IRC comments that it was a PC running mining software with a board connected to it.

Yes. Note the USD figure.

The BTC is in brackets because it's converted at a spot price, and not the official price of the invoice (and certainly wouldn't be legally recognised as the real price).

Becoin, that screenshot is a from a BFL order, not a bASIC one.  Regardless, that is the Bitpay interface, no BTC prices were quoted on either BFL or bASIC's sites.

Did I say that the price is only in BTC? No. What I said is that the price is in BTC as well!

Those are of course your free interpretations... It is laughable that if some data in official document is unofficial if it is in brackets!?

Would you show me a screenshot of a similar invoice issued by a US based vendor if you purchased a product priced ONLY in USD with your GBP credit card? I would like to see the GBP price "in brackets"?

Tom tells me we've paid out well over $200k in refunds from the bank account and $100k in BTC refunds - and they will continue.  Tom has paid me up on my recent invoice as well.  He continues to demonstrate that he is committed to working this out and taking care of the customers with the same integrity he shown in the past.

I'm hopeful that we will reach a tentative agreement early in the week, with a more formal deal signed by end of week.  More to come...

EDIT1: Offline until tomorrow around noon PST.  Please don't expect responses to your emails - I will process refunds throughout the day, and then let you know here in a post to check your order status.

Several members of this forum have reportedly received refunds already.

Me <myemail>    Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM
To: dave@bitcoinasic.com
Cc: contact@btcfpga.com
Hello,

I have placed 2 orders with you. I would like to cancel one of those orders.

Can I please cancel and get a full refund on order #1723 for 2,169.98?


Me <myemail>    Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 6:24 AM
To: dave@bitcoinasic.com

Dave,

Please cancel this cancellation. Cable pair finally posted something in the forum. That's all I wanted. It's bad when the main guy just disappears.

I repeat, do NOT cancel my order. Thank you

Thanks

[Quoted text hidden]
Me <myemail>    Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 4:13 AM
To: dave@bitcoinasic.com

Dave,

Was not impressed with the most recent information. I'd like to go ahead and cancel my second order.

Can I please cancel and get a full refund on order #1723 for 2,169.98?

[Quoted text hidden]
Me <myemail>    Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 3:25 AM
To: dave@bitcoinasic.com

Dave,

Just wanted to make sure you received this. I'm going to go ahead and go through with my original cancellation. Once again, no real information has been posted.

Can I please cancel and get a full refund on order #1723 for 2,169.98?


[Quoted text hidden]
Me <myemail>    Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 3:57 PM
To: dave@bitcoinasic.com

Dave,

Since tom announce the sale of his ownership of btcfpga, I would like to request a refund for all of my orders #1331 and #1723 for a total of 3239.97$

If you would like you can refund it all as USD to my credit card. I believe my first order was paid for via BTC. However, if you would like to refund the BTC on the first order please let me know and I will give you an address to send to. The address I sent from no longer exists.

[Quoted text hidden]
Dave Carlson <dave@bitcoinasic.com>    Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 5:17 PM
To: Me <myemail>
Hi Tom - yes we can only refund CC orders back to the credit card for the amount they were charged for.  So can you send a payment address for your BTC order?  Thanks - refunds to be processed shortly.

Dave
[Quoted text hidden]
Me <Myemail>    Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 5:34 PM
To: Dave Carlson <dave@bitcoinasic.com>
Dave,

Thanks you can send the BTC to 14FJcW6cCJsrbEtxkPjcVjBu4GCkrNMDse

[Quoted text hidden]
Dave Carlson <dave@bitcoinasic.com>    Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM
To: Me <myemail>
Thanks <Me> - expect your BTC to be refunded today

Dave


On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Me <myemail> wrote:

    14FJcW6cCJsrbEtxkPjcVjBu4GCkrNMDse



Me<myemail>    Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:49 AM
To: Dave Carlson <dave@bitcoinasic.com>

Can I get a refund? I have not received a credit card or BTC refund.
[Quoted text hidden]

Me <myemail>    Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:02 AM
To: Dave Carlson <dave@bitcoinasic.com>
Cc: lukasbradley@gmail.com

Dave, forgot to CC lukas per the forum post. Have not received a bitcoin refund. Processing chargeback for the CC now.
[Quoted text hidden]

Been waiting for mine since Jan 6. People after me have claimed to have received them.

......

Also been waiting since Jan 6 and nothing. Although it does say "Refunded" on the order information page, my money has not shown up sadly.
Hopefully it is just held up over the weekend? We shall see I suppose.

In this example you will need an Amazon 19.99% CC advertisement when processing payment for items in the cart.

Here is a great example issued by the Government of Canada.

!?...

As I have expected, you can NOT find an example of an INVOICE that has 2 currencies!

Been waiting for mine since Jan 6. People after me have claimed to have received them.

Dude welcome to my ignore list. lol

P.S when you get your cc statement foreign currency will  show two currencys on it. Purchases and refunds.

I wonder how many people who don't regularly follow this forum or the btcfpga forum, have no idea about what's happening, and therefore have not asked for a refund.  You know, the people who trusted the bASIC team and believed their money was in good hands?  The people who would never imagine that tom might have "left town".   

Law of the jungle and they are just sol? @Sitrow or any of the other bASIC team members: Will all the customers be contacted w/ the advice from the forums that they should ask for a chargeback or is it up to everyone to discover this for themselves and hope there's money left for their own refund? 

I wonder how many people who don't regularly follow this forum or the btcfpga forum, have no idea about what's happening, and therefore have not asked for a refund.  You know, the people who trusted the bASIC team and believed their money was in good hands?  The people who would never imagine that tom might have "left town".   

Law of the jungle and they are just sol? @Sitrow or any of the other bASIC team members: Will all the customers be contacted w/ the advice from the forums that they should ask for a chargeback or is it up to everyone to discover this for themselves and hope there's money left for their own refund? 

I wonder how many people who don't regularly follow this forum or the btcfpga forum, have no idea about what's happening, and therefore have not asked for a refund.  You know, the people who trusted the bASIC team and believed their money was in good hands?  The people who would never imagine that tom might have "left town".    

Law of the jungle and they are just sol? @Sitarow or any of the other bASIC team members: Will all the customers be contacted w/ the advice from the forums that they should ask for a chargeback or is it up to everyone to discover this for themselves and hope there's money left for their own refund?

Also, anyone got anymore contact info on Davebuzz or Tom? Or if you seen them hang out in an IRC channel lately, all I got was dave's email.

I have 2 orders of total 3x 72GH/s units (1/3 which is BTC payed), which I have all requested refunds on. On the old BTCFPGA site it says my CC order is refunded but I do not have received any money in my bank account, and it's been days. And while no status change on the BTC order I also haven't received any btc back even tho Dave said on the forum that all BTC refunds were processed.

Anyone else in the same situation?

I read Dave said that if anyone is considering requesting a refund they might aswell do a chargeback. I hope that doesn't mean they won't process anymore refunds cause even tho Ill do much to get that much money back doing a chargeback with my bank is much hassle for myself.

Also, anyone got anymore contact info on Davebuzz or Tom? Or if you seen them hang out in an IRC channel lately, all I got was dave's email.

Someone on IRC said Tom changed his number....

Someone please post pics of him again. His avatar was so cool.

https://plus.google.com/photos/107082417778531020969/albums

I wonder how many people who don't regularly follow this forum or the btcfpga forum, have no idea about what's happening, and therefore have not asked for a refund.  You know, the people who trusted the bASIC team and believed their money was in good hands?  The people who would never imagine that tom might have "left town".   

Law of the jungle and they are just sol? @Sitrow or any of the other bASIC team members: Will all the customers be contacted w/ the advice from the forums that they should ask for a chargeback or is it up to everyone to discover this for themselves and hope there's money left for their own refund? 

If your status is refunded then your refund was processed. It will probably show up on monday or tuesday in your account.

My status has not been changed to refunded (signaling that it has been refunded/processed).

https://plus.google.com/photos/107082417778531020969/albums

Yep, actually got the refund this morning when it seems my bank woke up. Honestly I am very happy that they seem to be at least responding and refunding still.
Imo still bASIC is simply a problem ridden company and not a scam. If they get their shit together I absolutely would purchase a unit.

I have 2 orders of total 3x 72GH/s units (1/3 which is BTC payed), which I have all requested refunds on. On the old BTCFPGA site it says my CC order is refunded but I do not have received any money in my bank account, and it's been days. And while no status change on the BTC order I also haven't received any btc back even tho Dave said on the forum that all BTC refunds were processed.

Anyone else in the same situation?

Until BTC has more protection for buyers, I don't see myself ever buying any big-ticket items with them in the future.  It seems scams are just too easy.

Me. Paid with CC in August, CC company says they can only do a charge back within 60 days after I get my bill - so no chance any more.
Order status on btcfpga.com says "refunded" - but nothing hit my account so far. Asked for the refund on 10th.

got my chargeback today too.

Until BTC has more protection for buyers, I don't see myself ever buying any big-ticket items with them in the future.  It seems scams are just too easy.

Ah, the lost art of due diligence... You don't need "more protection" - you can protect yourself by treating bitcoins much like you treat cash. You wouldn't just go to a strange neighborhood and hand a couple of thousands of dollars to a hand sticking out from a hole in the wall, the wall having a spray-painted advertisement "will build and deliver advanced, customized, integrated circuits"...? Or would you?

Paying cash to the likes of Sony and Tom - even ngzhang and friedcat, who so far appear much more credible - based solely on the promise to develop and deliver a rather complex product.

The best way to protect yourself when paying cash and cash-like bitcoins is to do research. Get to know the project, get to know the people. Are they trustworthy? Are they competent? Are there any red flags?  Alternatively, just pay a nanny (credit card company) to take care of you: she will gladly do it for a fee. If you are smart, you won't even be paying the fee - they'll find less-then-smart customers to cover it for you.

Ah, the lost art of due diligence... You don't need "more protection" - you can protect yourself by treating bitcoins much like you treat cash. You wouldn't just go to a strange neighborhood and hand a couple of thousands of dollars to a hand sticking out from a hole in the wall, the wall having a spray-painted advertisement "will build and deliver advanced, customized, integrated circuits"...? Or would you?

Paying cash to the likes of Sony and Tom - even ngzhang and friedcat, who so far appear much more credible - based solely on the promise to develop and deliver a rather complex product.

The best way to protect yourself when paying cash and cash-like bitcoins is to do research. Get to know the project, get to know the people. Are they trustworthy? Are they competent? Are there any red flags?  Alternatively, just pay a nanny (credit card company) to take care of you: she will gladly do it for a fee. If you are smart, you won't even be paying the fee - they'll find less-then-smart customers to cover it for you.
 

Luke-Jr and regular, I see your point, but I disagree. I never considered pre-ordering ASICs, simply because it didn't seem to me like BFL or bASIC had the experience and ability to give it a try without much risk. Previously delivered FPGAs were a weekend hobby compared to the scope of delivering an ASIC. This involves serious engineering, know-how, project management, accounting and customer service, outsourcing,  coding. There was no way the likes of Inaba and Sony had what it takes to deliver within a reasonable time frame. In fact, I don't do business with those sorts of characters, even if they delivered i  the past. There was no way Tom had what it takes (for different reasons). Not sure about the Avalon and BitFountain teams - at least they each seem to have a team.

Luke-Jr and regular, I see your point, but I disagree. I never considered pre-ordering ASICs, simply because it didn't seem to me like BFL or bASIC had the experience and ability to give it a try without much risk. Previously delivered FPGAs were a weekend hobby compared to the scope of delivering an ASIC. This involves serious engineering, know-how, project management, accounting and customer service, outsourcing,  coding. There was no way the likes of Inaba and Sony had what it takes to deliver within a reasonable time frame. In fact, I don't do business with those sorts of characters, even if they delivered i  the past. There was no way Tom had what it takes (for different reasons). Not sure about the Avalon and BitFountain teams - at least they each seem to have a team.

Mine also hit this morning.

BTW - For those idiots who are complaining that they should get the same # of BTC  back...
NOV 25 NOV 26 BTCFPGA 3155140269 NY  Foreign Currency¯USD 2,229.98 Exchange rate¯1.023363   $2,282.08
Jan 12, 2013    BTCFPGA 3155140269 NY  2229.98 USD @ .9566       2,133.36

This is the standard for any exchange between currencies.

That's a bit much. According to some earlier posts, they didn't receive the BTC through a payment processor, and it wasn't converted to USD. So by refunding a smaller portion, they're profiting off of their failure to deliver the purchased products as promised. I certainly don't think anyone who wants all their BTC back is an "idiot."

Even if that was the case, they won't be profiting off their failure to deliver, they would be profiting off their choice to keep BTC as opposed to selling it, and benefiting from the appreciation of their asset in the mean time.

Even if that was the case, they won't be profiting off their failure to deliver, they would be profiting off their choice to keep BTC as opposed to selling it, and benefiting from the appreciation of their asset in the mean time.

If one were a scammer, it would be a good plan.  Start a company that accepts BTC.  Depending on how the market goes, the seller will either be returning fewer BTC (the market went up and the seller gives back the $ equivalent in BTC) or returning an equal amount of BTC (the market went down and the seller just gives what he has, without profiting).  In no event does the seller give back more than he took in, and in a bull market, he gives back much less than what he took in.  I'm not saying that this is what happened... but one always needs to be vigilant.

And why should they get that profit, when the asset doesn't belong to them?

Ah, the lost art of due diligence... You don't need "more protection" - you can protect yourself by treating bitcoins much like you treat cash. You wouldn't just go to a strange neighborhood and hand a couple of thousands of dollars to a hand sticking out from a hole in the wall, the wall having a spray-painted advertisement "will build and deliver advanced, customized, integrated circuits"...? Or would you?

Paying cash to the likes of Sony and Tom - even ngzhang and friedcat, who so far appear much more credible - based solely on the promise to develop and deliver a rather complex product.

The best way to protect yourself when paying cash and cash-like bitcoins is to do research. Get to know the project, get to know the people. Are they trustworthy? Are they competent? Are there any red flags?  Alternatively, just pay a nanny (credit card company) to take care of you: she will gladly do it for a fee. If you are smart, you won't even be paying the fee - they'll find less-then-smart customers to cover it for you.

And why should they get that profit, when the asset doesn't belong to them?

But it does. You paid them with it; it's no longer yours. What kind of new insanity is this?

Why is everyone making a big deal about not getting back the same amount of BTC as they paid? That is stupid. The unit is priced in USD, not BTC. You are saying the company is profiting from bitcoins going up? Well then why the hell did you not purchase the ASIC with BTC, and buy back the amount of BTC you spent on the ASIC unit months ago? The company isn't going to take the risk of BTC prices going down. You guys are just lucky BTC prices didn't go down, because then you would be complaining saying you wanted the opposite of what you are whining about right now.

Mine also hit this morning.

BTW - For those idiots who are complaining that they should get the same # of BTC  back...
NOV 25 NOV 26 BTCFPGA 3155140269 NY  Foreign Currency¯USD 2,229.98 Exchange rate¯1.023363   $2,282.08
Jan 12, 2013    BTCFPGA 3155140269 NY  2229.98 USD @ .9566       2,133.36

This is the standard for any exchange between currencies.

Me. Paid with CC in August, CC company says they can only do a charge back within 60 days after I get my bill - so no chance any more.
Order status on btcfpga.com says "refunded" - but nothing hit my account so far. Asked for the refund on 10th.

full refund hit my account today - just to let everybody know.
all the best to you, tom!

Still hoping that they reach a buyout deal. We really need 3+ active vendors in order to push prices down once the development has been paid off.

https://plus.google.com/photos/107082417778531020969/albums

So after a bit of searching I found this video of Tom's lovely wife..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwWp-0SfVw&list=FLqfXuai2TnWBnyqLZBQXuqQ

tehehe

It's humor. The 'tehehe' should have been your first clue that it was humor. It's not like I am comparing Tom's family photo with a photo of Hitler which I'm sure would offend millions of Jewish people.

Strangely I thought Hitler typically offended alot of people, not just the Jewish people.

I guess that means you don't find Hitler offensive?

I got married when I was 18 and my wife was 19. She weighed ~100lb then and had a plain-Jane look, but was good enough for me--at the time. Now, she's over 300lbs and looks creaturish. I've seen two photos of Tom's wife. One looks rather pretty, while the other is slightly not, but not ugly like my ex-wife.

I'll have to agree that the video is in bad taste. OTOH, Josh's poodle is fair game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUhLiiRGn3k

Pick on Tom all you want, I certainly don't care. If he cares he'll probably show up and put you in your place...again. I just think it's in bad taste to diss the man's wife.

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud. 

Grown the fck up. Gee... Its the internet, ppl can make fun of your mom.

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

Tom trying to save/earn money by delaying BTC refunds as long as possible?

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

https://plus.google.com/photos/107082417778531020969/albums

So after a bit of searching I found this video of Tom's lovely wife..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwWp-0SfVw&list=FLqfXuai2TnWBnyqLZBQXuqQ

Pick on Tom all you want, I certainly don't care. If he cares he'll probably show up and put you in your place...again. I just think it's in bad taste to diss the man's wife.

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

Classy move bud. ::)

Welcome to the ignore list, troll in drag.

//ignore MeSarah

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

All hail the mighty ignore list, silencer of dissention, censor of questions, ensurer of the one true path.

Yae, though I walk through the forums of BTC,
I fear no fud, for thou art with me,
thy silence and blanking, they comfort me.

Again I have been proven right. Creativex, run away, run away. That is something you and Tom have in common Creativex. But I guess when you use logic against someone who has no logic what else can you expect from them but to run away and find a hiding place under an ignore button. I suppose now Creativex you have proven your self the coward you claimed I was.

Greyhawk has one of the best postings ever to be quoted:

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1163190#msg1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.  

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

Let me get this straight. A person can start a company with intent to fraud. They collect pre-order funds while stringing the customer along. At some point, the customers start claiming fraud and the business starts to go under. The shop is closed as people bring the owner to court. The lawyer argues that the business failed due to the customers and others claiming it was a fraud. The business owner then is able to sue those who claimed fraud for damages.

If this is correct, what a beautiful business model.

To be honest, I think people have become a lot more rude in real life as a sort of flow on effect of not applying a filter to what they say online.  People have become used to venting every little frustration online and it seems to diminish the capacity of many to deal with frustration or disappointment in real life in a non-confrontational manner.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request the exchange rate should be of that time not when they fell like getting to it as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request.
 the exchange rate should be at that time not when they fell like getting to it.
as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it.
since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

I'm not sure what the exchange rate has to do with this.  People who paid in BTC are being refunded in BTC and people who paid in USD are being refunded in USD. 

Even though it's been pointed out that he didn't exchange the BTC when it was deposited. So he's just pocketing the difference now.

Dear Friends, Lovers, and Enemies,

First off. Sorry for the scare. and believe me it was a SCARE - we had to refund over 200k and we were happy to do it because we claimed from day one that we will honor any refurequest until we go into production and we meant it. And  As crazy as fuck as it is to say so , we will sill honor it. We took multiple 20k+ refunds left and right without batting and eye lash because we believe in this project and we know we will be releasing our bASIC Bitcoin mining units sooner than everyone else, especially our good friends BFL.

Love us or hate us, I have some good friends who are original Bitcoin "old money" and they gave us the additional funding we need to finish the chip fab / packaging and take this thing into production. (THANK GOD!)

we WILL be shipping bASIC bitcoin mining devices in March 2013 and I am willing to put my own money against anyone who says otherwise.

The Design is done baby. The chips will be state-side as soon as Chinese New Year is over and for those who could not stomach the wait I don't blame you but I'm sorry to say you lost you place in line my friends.

March may seem a long time away as we all have ASIC blue balls right now, but its really not that far away, and I salute and congratulate all of you who have had the testicular fortitude to stick it out with us because you my friends will receive the ultimate reward. Sure Avalon may get some units out before the Chinese new year but that is sure to be a very limited number. On the other hand our assembly house has an unlimited assembly capacity and as soon as the Chinese new year ends we will have 16,000 freshly fabbed and packaged ASIC chips and we will be assembling those PCB's at FULL CAPACITY !We will be shipping ALL CURRENT ORDERS IN THE MONTH OF MARCH AND WE STILL HAVE ROOM FOR MORE ORDERS SO Get IN WHILE YOU STILL CAN! I stake my personal name and word on that. So hold on tight my friends because its going to be a wild ride in the month of March.

Now Let's Get ready to mine some serious coins
your friend always "cablepair"
Tom

Update on the BTCFPGA Forum.


source (https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1045.0)

I am really glad that he is going forward, and hopefully everything works out.....

That said I cancelled my orders after dave and lukas reported badly and I will not be buying anything until I actually see a product. He really had a breach of trust at the very least and to regain that he is going to have to do a bit more than simple words, sorry.

we WILL be shipping bASIC bitcoin mining devices in March 2013 and I am willing to put my own money against anyone who says otherwise.

"HURRY HURRY STEP RIGHT UP!  THIS HERE IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY!  THESE BABIES ARE GOING FAST!  GET 'EM QUICK BEFORE THEY'RE GONE GONE GONE!"

Way to add some value to the discussion.

Does Tom even realise that this is no longer just about raising the funds to complete the project?  It's also about convincing people that whoever is leading the project is competent and Tom's "word" is not evidence of that.

Dear Friends, Lovers, and Enemies,

First off. Sorry for the scare. and believe me it was a SCARE - we had to refund over 200k and we were happy to do it because we claimed from day one that we will honor any refurequest until we go into production and we meant it. And  As crazy as fuck as it is to say so , we will sill honor it. We took multiple 20k+ refunds left and right without batting and eye lash because we believe in this project and we know we will be releasing our bASIC Bitcoin mining units sooner than everyone else, especially our good friends BFL.

Love us or hate us, I have some good friends who are original Bitcoin "old money" and they gave us the additional funding we need to finish the chip fab / packaging and take this thing into production. (THANK GOD!)

we WILL be shipping bASIC bitcoin mining devices in March 2013 and I am willing to put my own money against anyone who says otherwise.

The Design is done baby. The chips will be state-side as soon as Chinese New Year is over and for those who could not stomach the wait I don't blame you but I'm sorry to say you lost you place in line my friends.

March may seem a long time away as we all have ASIC blue balls right now, but its really not that far away, and I salute and congratulate all of you who have had the testicular fortitude to stick it out with us because you my friends will receive the ultimate reward. Sure Avalon may get some units out before the Chinese new year but that is sure to be a very limited number. On the other hand our assembly house has an unlimited assembly capacity and as soon as the Chinese new year ends we will have 16,000 freshly fabbed and packaged ASIC chips and we will be assembling those PCB's at FULL CAPACITY !We will be shipping ALL CURRENT ORDERS IN THE MONTH OF MARCH AND WE STILL HAVE ROOM FOR MORE ORDERS SO Get IN WHILE YOU STILL CAN! I stake my personal name and word on that. So hold on tight my friends because its going to be a wild ride in the month of March.

Now Let's Get ready to mine some serious coins
your friend always "cablepair"
Tom

Update on the BTCFPGA Forum.

Good god, he's drunk as hell again.

source (https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1045.0)

This is not the same Tom that I pre-ordered from. He seems to have developed some mental health issues and/or a drinking problem in the meantime... sad but true.  :(

Not executing the BTC refunds as promised and posting this message: Is Tom crazy now?

There is no trust anymore and only a complete idiot will pay a single cent to do a bASIC pre-order. This message just makes no sense. Tom, say no to drugs!

I skipped all the speculative rambling that is so common on this forum, and would simply like to add some useful information. I emailed Dave January 13th asking for a CC refund for my purchase and received an email response from him on the 17th stating it has been refunded. Today, the money is back in my account.

I skipped all the speculative rambling that is so common on this forum, and would simply like to add some useful information. I emailed Dave January 13th asking for a CC refund for my purchase and received an email response from him on the 17th stating it has been refunded. Today, the money is back in my account.

It is well known that those who used CC to purchase are getting refunds. Those who used bitcoin to pay on the other hand are still waiting. I've not spoken to anyone that used bitcoin to pay that has received a refund. Kind of sad that a CC was safer to use. Not good for bitcoin.

Hey I'm back in action today, and have been cranking through refunds.  The beatings will continue  

I also plan to do a full reconcile of all BTC refunds I've sent to Tom and will flag any that he's missed.

Hoping to hear positive news on a buyout deal tomorrow.  Other than that, nothing new...

I skipped all the speculative rambling that is so common on this forum, and would simply like to add some useful information. I emailed Dave January 13th asking for a CC refund for my purchase and received an email response from him on the 17th stating it has been refunded. Today, the money is back in my account.

It is well known that those who used CC to purchase are getting refunds. Those who used bitcoin to pay on the other hand are still waiting. I've not spoken to anyone that used bitcoin to pay that has received a refund. Kind of sad that a CC was safer to use. Not good for bitcoin.

A lot of BTC were refunded: http://blockchain.info/address/19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa

Requested refund @ 13th, didn't get a response.

Maybe he's converting all the BTC to amazon Gcards??? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asT9B3_S-cI

lol - how far one can fall.. his name on any project going forward is 110% risk for everyone involved.

I've got 15 GPUs there, for a total of about 6.5GH, mining around the clock. And those coins that I mine are part of what's paying for these Christmas Gifts. How cools is that?

A lot of BTC were refunded: http://blockchain.info/address/19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa

The only thing Tom could do to regain some of the trust would be to refund eveybody, build the bASIC devices with his own or some investors money, demonstrate success with a working device and then start selling the devices.

...request refund on Monday (01-14-12), sent follow up on (01-16-12) haven't received a response. I paid via BTC ~90 (was trading at 11.80) totally feel like i'm getting jacked, regarding BTC/USD conversion. ...however the product was clearly priced in USD, but leaves a really bad taste.


FU Tom. FU.

still nothing from Dave... still no BTC refund.

is bASIC vaporware?

If I were him I'd be assembling every FPGA I could possible build with what parts I had left and start hashing to pay back the BTC that was already spent.

seems theirs a new update with bASIC

Dear Friends, Lovers, and Enemies,

First off. Sorry for the scare. and believe me it was a SCARE - we had to refund over 200k and we were happy to do it because we claimed from day one that we will honor any refund request until we go into production and we meant it. And  As crazy as fuck as it is to say so , we will sill honor it. We took multiple 20k+ refunds left and right without batting and eye lash because we believe in this project and we know we will be releasing our bASIC Bitcoin mining units sooner than everyone else, especially our good friends BFL.

Love us or hate us, I have some good friends who are original Bitcoin "old money" and they gave us the additional funding we need to finish the chip fab / packaging and take this thing into production. (THANK GOD!)

we WILL be shipping bASIC bitcoin mining devices in March 2013 and I am willing to put my own money against anyone who says otherwise.

The Design is done baby. The chips will be state-side as soon as Chinese New Year is over and for those who could not stomach the wait I don't blame you but I'm sorry to say you lost you place in line my friends.

March may seem a long time away as we all have ASIC blue balls right now, but its really not that far away, and I salute and congratulate all of you who have had the testicular fortitude to stick it out with us because you my friends will receive the ultimate reward. Sure Avalon may get some units out before the Chinese new year but that is sure to be a very limited number. On the other hand our assembly house has an unlimited assembly capacity and as soon as the Chinese new year ends we will have 16,000 freshly fabbed and packaged ASIC chips and we will be assembling those PCB's at FULL CAPACITY !We will be shipping ALL CURRENT ORDERS IN THE MONTH OF MARCH AND WE STILL HAVE ROOM FOR MORE ORDERS SO Get IN WHILE YOU STILL CAN! I stake my personal name and word on that. So hold on tight my friends because its going to be a wild ride in the month of March.

Now Let's Get ready to mine some serious coins
your friend always "cablepair"
Tom

Looks like Tom might have a new home soon(jail).  I hope this piece of crap rots in there.  

Someone should start a list to keep track of who has received their refund and how many still are outstanding.  At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.  

Tom has given up, but promised "EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER WILL BE REFUNDED. PERIOD."

Just to confirm, my order was 25 units, I requested a refund for the credit card transactions around the 11th Jan from Dave and I got the money back this morning in my online statements, I did loose a few percent on the $USD vs EUR exchange rate.

But at least they are keeping their word.

I find it interesting how Tom blames the community for the shutdown of the company.

That's good news...

I find it interesting how Tom blames the community for the shutdown of the company.

Hold up there... as posted on similar thread,

"
Theymos thinks cablepair's email <edit> might be hosed. Refund announcement and forum wipe could be someone still fucking around.

TNO

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/off-topic/789-writing-style-comparison-cablepair-posts-2.html#post11483

"

Or.. or... it could just be Tom after all!  GREAT SCOTT!

I find it interesting how Tom blames the community for the shutdown of the company.

I hope you can please accept my deep apologies, I thought I could pull this off but it was just too much of an undertaking for me, I feel ashamed and embarrassed and I am so sorry that I could not come through for you.

Where did you read this? From his post linked above he takes full responsibility :

His hacked account was rambling about how haters and trolls were giving him a bad name, and was the reason so many people were refunding. It was a blatant case of pass-the-buck whining, but all of his posts over the past day or two have been removed, and his account has been locked.