Bitcoin Forum

1) He *allegedly* runs an illegal bank like entity (allowing certificates of deposit) at his hidden domain "Coinlenders".

2) He has no idea how to protect customers and is likely using his websites to *allegedly* steal passwords:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=254776.0

3) He *allegedly* owns, operates and promotes the idea that "ripple is a scam":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196813.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212730.0

Ripple is a coin funded by Google Ventures, and Google is not a criminal actor:
http://gigaom.com/2013/05/14/google-ventures-invests-in-opencoin-the-firm-behind-bitcoin-exchange-ripple/

4) He offers a free "mixing service" to money launderers and to, allegedly, wash his own ill gotten gains.

Scam accusations:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151880




This forum is a joke when default trust is given to suspected criminals like TradeFortress.
(Trust: 2: -1 / +82(82) )

Help me build a new forum here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244678.0

I have evidence that TradeFortress uses the ID's he collects from coinlenders for himself to cover up his own identity, he even disclosed this to Radnom on IRC.

He also gave one persons ID to DiamondCardz. I have been in contact with the person who has had their ID stolen.

He is an identity thief, he makes huge effort to cover up his identity, he is completely anonymous and can run away with everyone's BTC at anytime..

I know I have negative trust and all, but if you read the thread against me you'll understand why we know this, this is not a lie.

I was shocked to see that searching google for "opencoin, inc" offers ripplescam.org as a top result.

Somebody should contact "Opencoin, Inc" and let them know that TradeFortress is the source of ripplescam.org.  I bet Opencoins partner Google cares about his libeling their new multi million dollar investment venture.  Anybody wanting to do so should contact the company here:  https://ripple.com/contact/  (They probably don't know he is the source of the site).


Further anyone who has used any service TradeFortress offers who has later noticed one or more hacked accounts needs to contact this organization immediately:  https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx


Down with Criminals up with LAW!

So he's against centralized payment system but own's a centralized bank and a online wallet.

Great.

He is running coinlenders and that inputs.io wallet anonymously?

He WILL scam everyone, question is just when, since it looks very well prepared he might wait untill his balance is at around a million or more.

What does this have to do with anything ?
Ripple is a scam anyway (unless they stop lying and prove otherwise), the evidence is everywhere, whether TradeFortress is a criminal or not.

The substance of your complaint appears to be a  password allegation which was incorrect and misleading and explained as such in the very thread you link to...

And the fact that he's opposed to Ripple.

Okay. Well I think that Ripple is a risky system, which is deceptively marketed, created and constructed in a way which can be reasonably expected to generate finical losses for its users and wealth transference to it operator. As it is currently stands it is a centralized system and on the basis of the system as described in public I have serious concerns that it is technically viable as a decentralized system. The centralization creates substantial regulatory and plain-boring security risks, and more simply is inconsistent with how they've advertised it. The operators of ripple may freely adjust balances at will and may be required to do so by any coercive power with authority over them. The same is true of services like mtgox, but they aren't advertised as anything else— and presumably people have some idea what risks they are taking when they leave funds with a service. These centralization risks combined with the incorrect notion that ripple is something else may be creating an elevated extensional risk for Bitcoin: If ripple suffers a massive failure it may (unfairly) cast a shadow on Bitcoin.

Moreover, the ripple of today was created by purchasing the name of a prior system which the current system is largely unrelated to in order to exploit the positive reputation of the name, further creating confusion about what what ripple is and isn't.

So now that I've also expressed concerns (see also (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144471.0)) about ripple will the pro-ripple troll and shill army now start spreading spurious scam accusations about me?

Ripple is closed source, not open, but that does not make them a scammer any more than Microsoft is a scammer for selling their software.

If ripple is a scam then google is a scammer.  Is google a scammer or is TradeFortress libeling them?  I vote for the later.  

This is not about Ripple, this thread is about:
TradeFortress

And no, the substance of MY complaint is he runs an "illegal" bank-like lending service.  The other positions are other peoples positions.  The early poll results are telling and obviously I have not voted:

Yes, absolutely he is a criminal   - 7 (58.3%)
Yes, absolutely he is a con man   - 0 (0%)
Yes, absolutely he is running an illegal bank   - 0 (0%)
No, why would you say that?   - 2 (16.7%)
I don't know   - 3 (25%)

Total Voters: 12

You should add an option for "No, and I see what you're trying to do."

I'm missing "If you don't ban Viceroy I'll just scream" as a vote option.

I only place those in important polls like the forum redesign thread in my sig, thanks.

without more information this is going nowhere and your slandering him,

If you are going to use legal terms, try to use the correct term.  What you mean to say is that I am libeling TradeFortress.  Which I am not, because I writ the truth.

i know if someone is scamming people it would be really bad though your still not allowed to accuse them of stealing passwords without proof, you specifically state that its just a suspicion

I added *allegedly* to the OP.  (fwiw. I'd love to see him come after me for libel, then I'd be able to identify him by name).

what are these certificates you speak and do you have a website link for it

In American (and Europe?) this offering is illegal unless you are an actual bank.

"A certificate of deposit (CD) is a time deposit, a financial product commonly sold in the United States by banks, thrift institutions, and credit unions."  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_deposit


And here is TradeFortress, the non-bank, offering the same:


https://www.coinlenders.com/interest

CDs (Certificates of Deposits)
We also offer CDs, which are fixed term deposits. They mature at a certain date, and different terms carry different interest rates. Current CDs offered: (existing CDs will always be honored, of course)

Duration (days)   Min amount   APR   Yield
30   1 BTC   25.5%   1.01885
30   20 BTC   25.9%   1.01912
30   100 BTC   26.3%   1.0194
30   200 BTC   26.7%   1.01967
90   1 BTC   26.05%   1.05875
90   150 BTC   27.25%   1.06123
180   1 BTC   22%   1.10303

if he is only dealing with BTC in these CD's its seems to be completely protected by the CCCB consitution and totally legitimate,

and due to the embryonic stage of crypto's it very high risk anyway, though i would say in time this kind of site would eventually be covered by the FDIC or similiar type of CCCB sponsored institution

Up until one second ago I'd never heard the term CCCB, but searching google for it I see it is something you authored:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170348.0

Not sure how this applies to TF. 

This is law:
http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/certific.htm

CD is a protected term, like "Bank".  You can't call yourself a "bank" or offer bank-like services if you are not a bank.


If you, or he, offer bank like services and you are not a bank you are asking for trouble with the American bank regulators and or the Department of Treasury. 

What TF is offering is not illegal because it doesn't deal with money. What he's doing is no different than you borrowing a piece of paper from someone and returning two pieces the next day. You really think the person who accepts the two pieces is committing a crime because they are earning 100% interest/day or 36,500% interest a year on that piece of paper?

If he were dealing with cash, it would be different. As long as he's not, he is well within the lines of what is allowed.

The US department of treasurys FinCEN unit says bitcoins are money.  Are you an expert on the matter or is this just a "feeling" you have about TF and his actions?

So I wasn't having deja-vu

since when did the discussion change to feelings?

I was challenging his position, it's all conjecture with no basis.  I am asking a question in the law forum and his answer sounded informative yet lacked substance.  So I asked for clarity.  I do not believe a company/person/firm can offer bank-like services without a state and/or federal charter.


While certainly not a definitive source here is a definition worth noting:


bank

An organization, usually a corporation, chartered by a state or federal government, which does most or all of the following: receives demand deposits and time deposits, honors instruments drawn on them, and pays interest on them; discounts notes, makes loans, and invests in securities; collects checks, drafts, and notes; certifies depositor's checks; and issues drafts and cashier's checks.


Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/401/bank.html

First of all, what you're asking is based on American laws. He's not from the United States; he's from Australia. I do not know how their laws work as I do not reside there and as such have had no real reason to look into them. As far as I know, though, they have never made a statement about Bitcoin being the same as money there; what the United States says is irrelevant here.

The problem comes into play because he deals with Americans and he is not registered to do so.  That is illegal.  Anyone offering banking services to an American must follow American law.  This is why mtgox recently stopped paying out USD to Americans... because doing so is illegal when you are not registered.  in other words they chose to STOP breaking the law.  Unless/until TF does the same he is likely criminal actor.

The long arm of America recently forced the highly secret Swiss government to give up all their illegal relationships and end anonymity.  If an entire government cannot stop the USA then TF has no chance.

MtGox stopped because their payment processor could no longer process payments for Americans on their behalf. It had nothing to do with what MtGox did or did not want to do. It had to do what their American bank accounts were taking part in. Since the accounts were in the United States, of course our government had jurisdiction.

TF is not using a United States bank account for his transactions, nor any bank at all as a matter of fact. Therefore, again, you are bringing in irrelevant facts.

This thread is not about Mt Gox, who is also probably breaking many laws.  This thread is about TradeFortress.  

My specific allegation is that TF may be offering banking services to Americans and he does not seem to be registered to do so.  If he did not deal with Americans then he might not be breaking American banking laws, but he does and is.  (probably).

Other people bring up interesting accusations like TF is using peoples passwords, and other people have called him a scammer.  There must be something to their claims, don't you think?  

Even so I think there is something to my claim.  Unless you have proof to the contrary.

show us the proof


 

Man, that is a mess... USA is trying to spread their law outside of their borders, but it is totally against international law. Anyone can accept deposits from US people without any problem. The only problem comes out when that entity wants as well to trade on US stock markets. That´s the reason why Swiss banks cooperate now about their US clients. Couse in the case they will not provide informations to US, they could be cut from US stock markets, bond market, commodities etc. It is only reason. Otherwise everybody could say to mr. Obama and his fascist establishment just "FUCK OFF".

Wait, isn't this just illegal rather than a scam?

The two words have very, very different meanings.

I just realized that TradeFortress offers a "free mixing service".  Can anyone tell me who, other than a money launderer, would need to mix their coins? 


"Bitcoin looks primed for money laundering"
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/18/bitcoin-money-laundering/

posted by Inedible:

This.  Seconded.


Frank

Everyone who values their privacy. For example if you want to buy porn and don't want some cyberstalker to send a list of sites to your mother.

Dude, FINCEN has 300 employees...
They just go after what is politically expedient.

Ripple is 100% illegal from top to bottom...
In terms of the SEC (securities), FINCEN (fiat), Futures Commissions (commodities), IRS (Tax Compliance)...
Ripple REFUSES to provide timestamps for transactions...
And it's impossible to download even the most basic Trading Report that is Tax Compliant.

So OpenCoin has made a deliberate CHOICE to run a global money laundering network.

The whole TF debacle with Ripple back in April or whatever...
TF luckily exposed an VERY COMPLEX default setting in the Ripple Client regarding Trust Lines...
That was designed to allow sophisticated users to FLEECE ordinary people...
By substituting junk IOUs for quality IOUs via "rippling".

Here is the very scary OpenCoin discussion about this...
Notice only ONE person (Vinnie Falco)...
Is in favor of extending ANY protection to ordinary users...
So the core OpenCoin position is to screw early adopters and ordinary people.

https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client/issues/748

OpenCoin lied point blank about this entire incident on their official web site...
Which is what they do every time there is a problem.

There have been many instances of Ripple users having funds stolen...
OpenCoin just says, oh wow, it was obviously your crappy password.

Thank you for that response QuantPlus.  Now that we have a solid foundation on that matter I want to have it end in this thread.  It is clear that there are strong opinions about ripple being a scam or illegal, but the company is easy to find and if they are breaking the law the regulators know how to get ahold of them.  Now let's shift the focus back to TF, the central character in this OP.


Yea, if you afraid to buy porn you probably shouldn't be looking at it.  Real men are not afraid to buy things that might be embarrassing to a ten year old.  

If you want anonymity, buy it with cash.  Bitcoin is not anonymous.  Every transaction is recorded in a public log.  

As I understand it US law applies outside the USA if Americans are involved. A few years ago a Dutch DJ was extradited to the US and served time there for selling drugs to an American in the Netherlands. Yes the Netherlands extradites its own citizens for offences committed in the Netherlands.

Also "aliens" (non US-ians) have no rights in the American court system. So you are basically f-d if you land in their clutches.  ::)

yes, you understand it good. It is a nonsense at all, dangerous precedence as we all made some crime, at least when prism and similar programs collect our emails, statuses on social network etc. I think every person commit about 3 crimes a day in developed world. it is very sad that law, which should protect people mostly against its governement, destroyed the princilples of old Romanian or common law and we live in a world of... can´t find word which would suit. Only vulgar :-D

Good luck with enforcing that in China (like any country that isn't a puppet of the US the only laws that matter here are its own).

I can't remember exactly when so much of the rest of the world decided that US law can apply anywhere but I am very glad that China says "fuck off - your laws mean nothing here".

Australia is also a servant to the US and WILL extradite their own citizens, even when they never set foot on US soil. Like this unfortunate young man who pirated software owned by US corporations:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/05/06/1178390140855.html

I'm not familiar with banking laws where he is located so it would be stupid for me to conjecture on that.
I personally think investing in his lending thing is a bad idea but that doesn't make it illegal. I thought investing in Apple was a bad idea too *doh*


I suspect he does know how to protect customers.
As far as stealing password go, that's a pretty serious charge that needs some backup.

with respect to not salting the passwords, not he mentioned migration. He's right, every user would have to generate a new password if he changed from no salt to using a salt. If someone gets the database dump, what's at that site that is damaging to users?


Ripple is a scam.


Oh please, Google is extremely dirty.
I'll allow Oracle Java on my machine but I won't allow Google Chrome.
I don't trust google.

I think google's interest in ripple is to integrate it into their payment services so that you have to have a google ID to use ripple.


Mixing services are very important for businesses. Without them, your competition can find out information about customers and suppliers that you don't want public.


I can't comment on that.


So there is an ulterior motive to this.

Fake, not stolen. It was an attempt to trick you so that the funds you stole could be returned to it's rightful owner.

And why should we trust you? You attempted to extort me (I sent email logs to a trusted member) and even posted my "dox". 'cept it wasn't my dox, you failure.

Since Viceroy raised Google as an issue...
Ripple does not even appear on Google Ventures web site...
I think Google is waiting for Ripple to keel over...
Then they will peel off the Good Stuff... and integrate it into Google Wallet.
 

That's sexist, heteronormative, ageist, and Orwellian. It ignores the facts that in-person transactions are never anonymous, that Bitcoin was designed and developed with privacy in mind, and that some people don't share your empowered social status.

Real men who happen to be gay in that situation in some countries run a real risk of being killed.  Take your self important attitude and fucking stuff it you twerp.  The world doesn't exist in an American centric bubble.

While bitcoin is not anonymous, it is private and that does have very real positive applications.  The ability to anonymize yourself also has great utility.  Now, if you want to convince yourself that money laundering is indeed a crime, you can go ahead and stay in your little mental midgetry of course.  No one will stop you but as far as victimless crimes and capital control issues go, money laundering is certainly anti-freedom.  Shucks, it's too bad that bitcoin will help your local weed retailer evade the police but I guess you have a real hard on for busting drug vendors...like liquor store clerks?

Whatever, anyhow, that's not even the core of the argument.  The core issue here is having the freedom to undertake personal wealth management free from capital controls.  The drug thing is just one example among many of crimes that aren't crimes and technologies like bitcoin facilitate anonymity that allows people to get out of the government crosshairs.  Whatever you think of drugs, sex for cash, homosexual people or who knows what, you're basically complaining that bitcoin and mixer services might stop your moralistic idiocy from holding some sort of sway over people.

Well boo fucking hoo.  It's just so sad that people might be able to find a little freedom for once huh?

GAH@!(*^@!@

I don't distrust TradeForest as a businessman but I have my doubts if he can withstand legal scrutiny. So won't be putting BTC in Coinlenders as I was considering to do.

Ah, a thinking person ....


And to the person who suggested money laundering is not a crime I recommend you move to Bikini Atoll because in the rest of the world it's a crime.  Bitcoin was not designed to be the new money of the mafia nor was it designed to be anonymous.  Every transaction is recorded in public.  Look to Liberty Reserve to see what happens when criminals use digital currency.  

Alice: The idea of using a mixer to disguise "vendor payments" is nonsense since any vendor can just create a new address at any time.  Unless the vendor is trying to hide income from the tax man there is no reason I can fathom that requires mixing.  

Let's be honest and state that "the primary use of coin mixers is now and will forever be to wash bitcoin that was used in criminal transactions".  It certainly is not about gay men who live in homophobic countries who buy playgirl.  ::)


Further:


So by deduction it WAS the case for SOME PERIOD OF TIME.   Don't believe me, read TF's own words and come the same conclusion that (up until yesterday?) he was storing passwords in the clear.  Nice.

Damn, I honestly thought I could draw you in with some name calling.  Colour me disappointed.

Ok, well then fine.  No, this is not about gay men in Iran or whatnot but it well could be.  That's one of the magical aspects of bitcoin if you believe in the supernatural powers of government which you certainly seem to.  The freedom in individual financial sovereignty granted by this decentralized private money service (anonymous and private are different) is a real and direct challenge to government capital controls and that's what money laundering laws are.

If you can't see why AML is as devoid of justification as the Government of Argentina banning American dollars then you aren't getting it.

All that said, yes TF may indeed be exposed to government superpowers at some point and currently, depending on the jurisdiction that notices him, that could be a significant problem or nothing to worry about at all.  Time will tell but does that make him a criminal?  ...well, I tend to think that a lot of people that governments label as criminals really aren't criminals but indeed are law breakers.

Since Bitcoin is "not anonymous" and you're confident about the primary use of mixers, surely you can provide some data as to what percentage of mixer volume is for criminal money laundering, and what percentage is innocent people who desire privacy?

I'm happy to have all kinds of discussions but lets keep this particular thread focused where it should be... on TradeFortress questionable activities and determining if those activities are breaking any laws.

You sir are the master of trolls.

No. Actually you are just annoying as hell. Just for your information, not only banks can lend money, everyone can, and everyone can hold money and return it with an/against an interest.  Pawnbrokers do that all the time....
To the legal problem: Bitcoin is a commodity and is traded as such in all of Europe as per European law regarding ecurrency. So he is not doing anything illegal. His lendingservice is also not illegal, since credits given from a private entity are also legal. He never called himself a bank AFAIK, so there is also no problem regarding that definition. I can't believe I read through your whole crappy thread...
Seriously you americans are really going on my nerves sometimes. Let's see: Per your definition everyone dealing with US citizens and breaking US law in a different country is guilty of a crime? In the Netherlands it is legal to buy weed (which is legal in California too IIRC) so every Coffeeshopowner is breaking the law! AS is everyone in California selling weed to non Californian US citizens? Or what about US citizens putting their cash on the caimans? Is every Bank clerk there now guilty of aiding and abiding tax evasion and money laundering? Get off your high horse before your government claims it's illegal and pulls it from under your idiotic ass....

I'm well aware of that.

All your competition has to do thoug is make small purchases and watch happens to the transactions, where it is spent and what other inputs it is mixed with when it is spent.

He makes it pretty clear that it's not a bank.

What's annoying to me is FUD like you are spreading.  You neglect to mention the FACT that pawnbrokers are registered and follow loses in the state in which they operate.  TF hides in the shadows trying to avoid the law that requires banks to be registered.

So what?  What does His making it clear have to do with anything?  By way of example I stand on the corner and sell crack.  But I say I'm not a crack dealer.  and.... so what?


Attack me all you want but realize that 33% of us think TF is less than a stellar character, so my belief is hardly unique.  TFs bank is going to fold and your bitcoins WILL be lost.  

I suspect his BTC loan business will fail as well, but I don't know that he has nefarious intent. He very well may believe it will work and perhaps it will.

Trying something that others suspect will fail doesn't make him a bad guy.

The legal aspect, well, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not familiar with the laws and case history in his country. Hopefully for the kind of operation he is running he has hired one.

Now ripple on the other hand, they blatantly lie on their web site,
They claim it is open source - yet they refuse to release the source.

Lying and deceiving people like that does make them a bad guy.

Ripple wants to control the money flow, you need XRP to use the system and they have all the control over who gets all the XRP.
It's a straight up scam.

I deposit BTC into coinlenders, BTC no appear!

He breaks the law!

This thread is pointless, since Viceroy deletes posts which he does not like...

We will be launching a new website soon dedicated to open discussion about TradeFortress, his various websites and alleged scams he has done.

There will be lots of useful information on it along with hard evidence. Stay tuned guys!

Oooooo, I am excited!



I delete posts that add no value.  If you can criticize an idea you are welcome to post.  If you are loudmouthed money launder who is in TFs fan club and your response includes personal attacks it will, again, be removed.

Here is a sneak preview from our upcoming website: minecraft.exe

TF will know what that means. ;)

And check out this hilarious IRC chatlog from #ubuntu-server on IRC:


Even phunnier, here is his reply:


The community trusts this anonymous person (who isn't so anonymous after all! ;)) with approximately $2million in BTC. Dafuq is going on here?

How is TradeFortress offer any different from Pirateat40's Ponzi scheme offer?


>From at least ____ to ____ (“relevant period”), Shavers, operating under
>the Internet name “pirateat40,” offered and sold BTCST investments over
>the Internet

=

>Shavers falsely promised investors up to 7% interest weekly

=

>In reality, the BTCST offering was a sham and a Ponzi scheme



http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2013/comp-pr2013-132.pdf

it is not ... unregistered securities is a pretty big umbrella, lots of other things might qualify like pass through shares...

he is royally screwed, if he in some way falls under the laws of the US; based on his writing I think he likely does.  if he has ever done an escrow with anyone who does not like him, all the govt agents have to do is find one of the escrow agents, threaten them with prison time for withholding evidence from a criminal investigation, and he is fried chicken...

hell there might even be a money reward, the govt does that in some cases... 10% of 2 mil is a tidy sum....

IMO the second he pisses someone off he is going to get a lot of attention on him and get fucked.

Little off-topic but... why is your "ignore" link highlighted in orange? You're the first person with it highlighted like that, lol. And it's all of your posts... (Viceroy)

Because I have the distinct honor of being ignored by more than 50 fools in these forums.  ;-)

 

Is that really a statistic?

Yes.


And now, back to the show....   the SEC has the right to regulate bitcoin trading because bitcoin is NOW MONEY!

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/court-says-bitcoin-is-money/

You should add an option for  No, and I see what you're trying to do ;D

I'm curious, was that co-incidence?

As I have stated previously I am looking forward to the launch of this site and have plenty of people lined up willing to buy adspace or offer whatever support necessary.

So you're going to launch a website where you make allegations against another person, possibly illegal allegations, and you're offering ad space on it.

Now that is a scam.

Whatever your issues with TradeFortress, you are not coming out of this well.

How is that any different from what TF did when he paid people to advertise that Ripple is a scam?  Or him starting a website that says ripple is a scam?  

So you are saying, indirectly, that TF is a scammer.  




Gotta love when ponzi schemer/scammers (like TF) start betting that things are ponzi schemes.  Of course he's doing it with community money so there is no risk in that, right TF?

No, I didn't comment on TradeFortress at all and nor am I going to because I'm not in either camp.

I was commenting on what is clearly a very personal grudge being handled badly.

How is what scotaloo proposed any different that what TF has done with his paying people to advertise that ripple is a scam or authoring a website about the same?

To be consistent in your logic you must be willing to admit that scotaloo and TF are acting the same and so they are either both expressing free speech or they are both behaving badly.

One is a personal attack and one is not.

TF's attack is on a currency. Do I agree with him? No I don't. If he paid to advertise this fact then no I don't agree with that personally but in the end it's done as a political statement or for some commercial reason I'm unaware of.

That is very different from setting up a site to attack an individual and then taking advertising on that site.

It's making all this seem very personal. Just my opinion.

what are these certificates you speak and do you have a website link >:(

If that was to me, here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=256008.msg2731055#msg2731055

The attack is against a company, its' employees and its' product, not currency.

This "attack against TF".. We can call it "an attack against immoral, shady and illegal activities".

LOL, fucking hilarious...
It explains why he's driven like a man possessed to spread so much FUD about ripple and opencoin.  It's in competition to his own scams!   

Good grief guys. Ripple/Opencoin aren't competition whatsoever. They're totally and utterly different.

His attack is against the currency; he doesn't see that it works and he thinks it's a way for OpenCoin to make money through pre-mining and that's it. I'm not with him on this at all and nor do I agree with the nature of his attacks but it's still very different.

I can't say if he's scamming or not, that's for you to show, but it's still coming across as a personal attack/witch hunt. As for the legalities of his offerings, I think you'll find his business is one of any number of current Bitcoin businesses that are in the grey area of the law or flat out illegal. If you go for him, you should go for the majority of Bitcoin businesses - e.g. virtually every gambling site. You can't have it both ways.

Yes you are right I should start a "are bitcoin gambling sites illegal" thread but we already know the answer, right?

Let's find out:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276787.0

Minor point, but the question isn't "are bitcoin gambling sites illegal" but whether any are fully compliant with gambling legislation across relevant territories. There is nothing inherently illegal about running a gambling site which accepts or pays out in Bitcoin AFAIK.

Also, with relevance to legalities generally, Marco Santori has a two part series on CoinDesk:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-law-what-us-businesses-need-to-know/

BTW I also expect that TF's loan service is illegal. In fact, I can't see how it isn't, although it depends where he is based and of course he could have the licenses... but probably not. Like most Bitcoin financial services, invest at your own risk.

BTCT is in the same boat IMHO. UKYO argues that Bitfunder isn't but at best they are in a very grey area and are playing a clever game (particularly by being based in a well selected location apparently). Several funds are in very dubious positions.

Mt Gox got caught out, other exchanges are going through all their own issues.

Selling your own Bitcoins is possibly illegal in the US.

Etc etc etc.

My point comes back to why this picking on TradeFortress? If he is scamming, evidence evidence evidence!

Because:


You make good points, there are many many sites I should call out.

Sorry if it felt like I was picking on you, I just have a beef with personal attacks on people.

I feel there is a terrible two faced-ness about many people on this forum. On the one hand, there is a huge fight against regulation of any kind. On the other, you get problems or complaints genuine scammers, with Avalon delays and screw ups, Mt Gox issues or hacks, your problem with TradeFortress' offerings, and so on. People talk about going to court, or reporting problems to various authorities.

Either it is the wild west or it isn't. Either you take regulation with its good and bad points or you don't. Not all regulation is about evil governments, much of it is to protect you, the consumer.

BTW I'm not in any way defending the lengths people must go to comply or the horrendous costs in some cases (US state money transmitter licenses anyone?).

The truth is that almost the entire Bitcoin ecosystem has been operating like the Wild West and the results of this are coming to the fore. The amounts involved are now too big to ignore, the problems too significant when bad things happen.

However, we all know that the Bitcoin world couldn't have got this far by playing the same game as big banks and the SEC and dealing with AML from day 1 and so on.

The dirty truth is that most people on this forum have used a Bitcoin services which is legally grey or worse, and they take that risk because they believe in Bitcoin or they want to improve their Bitcoin holdings. It doesn't make what they did illegal, I'm just making the point.

 This is an easy fix.  I get along with TF.  Used to shoot the shit with him often on BTC-E. He's younger by far then me.  But is pretty brilliant when it comes to development. Now to be honest I don't trust anyone with my ID  I don't use PayPal anymore because I refuse to provide scanned ID. 

Also stealing passwords and such.  Yeah what's the common sence thing to do in that case.  Don't even remotely make that password even close to those that lock up what's important.

As far as ripple is concerned.. I don't support the idea that google is 100% legit.  For christ sakes they built G+ just to data mine.  They are on record saying that they really don't care if you use it or even keep it.  They have what they need.  They restrict you from commenting on other elements of googles service sphere. IE: try to make a comment on google play w/o a G+ account.  It isn't happening.

Inputs feels like ripple.  I figured that's what he's eventually going for.  I believe the source is available for it.  That was one of his major fights.  Next to the IOU exploit.

Bottom line it isn't mandatory to use his service.

Legal grey areas aside.   He is obviously running it as an anonymous entity.   Anyone sending financial and identity documents to ANY anonymous person on the internet is just asking for trouble.  I'm not saying he is doing anything with them.  But why take the risk.   

Why he should be a criminal he is a good guy.

Looks like TF is attempting to evade regulators by pretending his site is only in Demo mode and he is not actually banking.  Of course the regulators will see right through this since he is running an illegal, unregulated, bank.

bringing up this thread again is pretty funny makes me laugh every time  :D

Looks to be selling the banking software on the website,  it wasn't an illegal unregulated bank unless converting to US currency.

this thread is useless and just attempt to have some intention nothing else

Just report him already and claim your governmental reward.

Quoted from post #50... It seems this is your way to AVOID questions others ask you that you cant win...

Just finished reading the five pages, can I please for the love of GOD have my life back that was wasted reading his baseless whining???

Thanks in advance.

Whaaa?

You can have your life back now.

OP, lock this useless thread!  ::)

I am embarrassed that I once liked you Phineas.  Why should this thread be locked?  Trade fortress stole 1.3 million dollars, just like I warned you all he would.  Unregistered sites like his are the perfect place to steal money.  I just wish others had listened to me BEFORE he stole their money.

Sad day for the community it was that chilly November day.

so many big scams yet nobody really cares to go after the people behind them

sick read

No, why would you say that?    - 72 (36.4%)

I wonder how the votes looked like in August.

The early votes are listed in the thread.  I wish people had taken the alarm more seriously.  TF smelled rotten from day one.

Voting now locked.