Bitcoin Forum

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-28 (https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-28)

KNC is looking good so far IMO. Can't wait to see the PCB samples next week...

Why 5V external power?  Most ATX PSU are designed to deliver most of their power on the 12V rail(s).

I'm not invested in knc but the pic gave me a chuckle..."box and a bunch of fans"
I'm not implying anything else ;)

It has to be a typo, these beauties need hundreds of watts (I did suggest elsewhere that 48V would be a sensible PSU voltage, but those are hard to come by outside of server rack systems).

5V HAHAHAHAHA enjoy that.

That was the first thing that I thought when I saw those pictures. Sure 5V to ~1V will be a little more efficient, but that's just unloading the problem onto the end user who as to come up with a source of 30A of 5V.
It must be a mistake.

Yeah ultimately it is 120VAC/240VAC in and ~1VDC out. The individual steps (or number of steps) doesn't really matter.  What matters is the overall efficiency from the wall to the chip.  ATX PSU are very efficient at what they do.  It is unlikely any design (from wall to chip) will be more efficient than using a 12V rail on ATX PSU.  I had even looked into dedicated 12V PSU (i.e ones used for industrial equipment not PCs) and while they are sometimes cheaper they aren't as efficient (efficiency tends to be high 80%).

Making the user try to find a PSU capable of up to 200 amps on 5V (Jupiter pulls 1000W) is going to immediately kill of the most accessible, best priced, and high efficiency options ... ATX (computer) PSU.

Like you said, lets hope it is a typo (it really uses 12V not 5V at board level) and not a horribly stupid design choice.

If that is not a typo, this would be enough to power up the unit?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-Switching-Power-Supply-SE-600-5-5V-100A-600W-AC85-264Vin-247x127x63-MeanWell-/130891366233#vi-content

https://i.imgur.com/1Pq98lk.jpg

Not to mention the fire risk (thinking of the guy who melted his Avalon PDU). Even 12 volts is 80 amps at 1000W. Make sure you plug all of those connectors in before firing it up (I wonder if there may be a consumer equipment safety problem here. I would hate for it to fail to get a CE/UL sticker).

Note that those (like most industrial PSUs), have screw terminal connections. Not consumer friendly.

100A at 5V is just 500W. And its input is 12V so we still have the multiple stepdown problem with efficiency scratch that, damn eyesight  ::)

KnCminer terms and conditions specify that they are selling a product for business, not end users. So that could justify why there is necessary a PSU not so "consumer friendly".

I will Google more to see if I can discover a 5V 100A PSU without connectors.

https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/image/case3small.png


those cases will not survive shipment.

wtf is this lol.

it is ugly, not durable, looking cheap and disgusting.

terrible design.

it is such a shame...

If you look back at previous newsletters it shows a picture of the quad chip with 0.9V DC/DC power converters. Almost certainly 12V input (its not a problem for a single stage buck converter). They also mention hosting, with explicit ATX power supplies. so the 5V is almost certainly a typo.

Four trimmed Beings like 4 gPU on board, close to the CAD design and even better, good job. Some people may ask if the actual design can handle the heat as the being, 1000W, the 8-pin and the 6-pin can answer the most as ORSoc may take part in some serious designs like GPU.

The actual picture is not enough, where is the board?

I would think it would have to be a typo. I've reached out to KnC to confirm, as this would be a major design flaw even if they were targeting the "business" market.

That Meanwell would work, but as has been said it's very inefficient relative to a good ATX supply. You're also going to have ~6x the losses in your cabling from the unit to the onboard DC/DC that you would have at 12V as well.
It is also going to be cooled by a single 40mm or 50mm fan howling like a banshee. You will not want to be in the room (or house) with a couple of those guys running.

if they are targeting business market, I'm fine with it, but in this case PSU outside miner doesn't make any sense.

+1

Someone did not think this through.  It should have multiple banks of PCI-e 8 pin connectors, run in parallel.

And these people will deliver 28nm ASIC?
Hard to believe.

The small slot at the front is to accommodate the multiple 5V power connections from the external PSU

Nice to see a little progress, but like everyone else I am not happy to see it will use 5v. I have a lot of ATX PSUs laying around, it would be nice to be able to use them.

I do not think it was a typo... its kind of hard to accidentally type 5 instead of 12..

Would something like this require much redesigning to switch it over to 12v... as in, if everyone requests they use 12v, can they make the switch easily? I know nothing about PCB design.

Guys chill down, 5v is for the interface (Raspberry or any other SOC thing). In the other thread ppl received an answer about SSH access and web GUI, so probably there is a small Linux thingie between the Ethernet interface and the asics themselves.

The big part will be driven from 12 volts, with mobo and pci express connectors. It can't be anything else, there's no reason to project something with custom PSU specs without including it in the product!

Whatever.  5v to supply 1000W is poor choice.  Even with PCI-e 8 pin is rated for what? 150W?  They would need 8 of these to under run their system.

End of story.  Not sure why you even try to defend this.

that would not be a sufficient excuse.  all other asic manufacturers have gone with 12V.

Not sure the best email but it is a relatively simple question.  Just send this (or link to the thread):

do you mean end of your FUD?

Kepco makes them in 150 or 300 watt for 5v..   sure the amps are silly and we'd all be calling an electrician

http://www.kepcopower.com/hsf.htm

They changed it, apparently (didn't see the initial news).

damn it was more fun messing with people before..

to anyone new to KNC, you will find that English and running a webpage are not their strong suits.   I learned a while back to not overreact to anything they first put up on their site.


hopefully everyone will chill out, but no doubt when they post the PCBs more errors will happen, and more screaming will come!!

Thanks.  I wonder what the 5VDC input is for?  I would imagine the bulk of the load is going to be on the 12VDC rails (which make sense) so it is now just more of a curiosity.

"But it's just a box of fans!"

Pull out your quarters and get ready for a deja vu guys. Micon will be here any second...

Its been said before but it probably needs saying again,

5V is for the RasPi
12V is for the mainboard

cheers,
kev

Well ORSoC's own made Linux based equiv. of the R Pi.

I seriously doubt they are going to "make their own RPi."

They might buy RPi's and slap their logo on them, but I don't think they are making even a "custom" RPi for this--if so, where is the information in regards to them stating this?

Watch the video where Marcus explains die size at the Open Day.  I believe he's holding one in his hand there...

http://youtu.be/by-je8XRCdY

I'll have to wait to watch it for audio as I'm in a meeting right now, but I did notice in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgNPIY9L8s4

In the very first few seconds, to the left of the FPGA, is what looks to be one of the HSF's they just posted in their news article. It is promptly removed from the table shortly after the video starts [about 35 seconds in]. I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory here as I'm sure they just moved it to get it out of the way, but it is interesting nonetheless.

Bitcoinorama, since you are the uploader of this video, just curious--were you there at the open day?

 ;D :D ;D

Of course he was.  And if that doesn't give you room for another conspiracy theory you aren't trying to start, I don't what could.

These are also terrible cases and yet 600GH/s  :D

https://i.imgur.com/vxHVjqml.jpg

Exactly.  The "prettiness" of the case has to be about the stupidest complaint for any industrial device.  Personally I would be happy if any ASIC manufacturer just delivered boards.  A board in a ghetto rack hashing today is worth a LOT more than a board is some pretty backordered case which will ship in "two weeks".

Wait wait wait wait wait... that's they're Jupiter cooling? ROFLMAO. Those heatsinks are rated for peak of ~140W, not 250. And they think they can exhaust 1kw of heat with 2 standard 120mm fans?

My 1x250mm 1x200mm, 5x140mm and 2x120mm case was struggling with 800-900W. I told you those thermal simulations were really, really wrong.

Sorry to disappoint you guys, KNC lives in the clouds.

Yet this is an example of one of the rarest and endangered butterflies on earth;

http://gallery.mailchimp.com/5015fc3486176144c53751877/images/P1010328c39ef4.JPG

Case design is about longevity. As a broker I'd prefer for my clients hardware to survive being shipped round the globe. Some of my Avalons have taken more flights in 6 months than I have in my entire life.

Thanks, I'll get right on coming up with something.

Maybe a little off topic, but here is a video from their YouTube channel demonstrating on of the robotic arms they had dotted around their office. Sounds like Marcus on the voiceover. It uses their openrisc processor;

http://youtu.be/Lv1Gow7WZxM

The FUD in this thread is astounding.

KNC, thanks for the update; it's nice to see things coming along.

It looks like they have not changed the airflow profile in the case design any.  I wonder what the deltaT is going to be from the front 'cooler' chips to the rear 'hotter' ones. A linear airflow would have been more ideal. Oh well caseless it is.

Don't you get tired of pretending to be smarter than just about everyone else? I can see it now, the big failure... clearly, KNC should've entrusted you with the design, as the OrSOC engineers obviously know nothing about chip design/thermals ::).

Actually they aren't that rare any more at all ...

+1 to why external power.  I thought these were supposed to be professional mining machines?  Who has a rack full of machines with external power supplies hanging off of them like dingle berries?

Haha that was only a joke as it rolled with the banter. Nothing serious. ;)

I've worked with 100s of desktop based heatsinks, but whatever go ahead. They still never explained their simulations that were FAILED.

Enjoy your vapourware/house fire.

THose 4 fans just look like off-the-shelf Noctua coolers to me.  Not implying anything... I trust KNC myself...but just saying...

Ohhhh such an expert! LOL!

Cool ..then put your money where your mouth is !!!

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/

Or are you a little biatch !  8)

All I need is a simple drawing of the mounting holes.   ::)

Gee, a specialist IC/ASIC design team in business for over a decade, or armchair expert that can't spell his own namesake;


As opposed to;

Yeah, a lot of FUD, but also just a lot of fatuous pontificating, and second guessing the professionals.  

That's why it's a fun read.  It's like listening to sports talk radio.  It not only the opinions of the callers that are a hoot, it's the self-righteous certainty with which they hold those opinions which makes it funny.

Heatsinks are Arctic i/A30 which are rated for Max. Cooling Capacity 320 Watts
You are some sort of an expert, aren't you? http://hardwarebg.com/forum/images/smilies/standard/facepalm.gif

Another option is Avalon: excellent design, but held up in customs.

Once in hand, host them at Zhou Tong's data center until the relic collect take them.

What coins you do gain mining, store them at Mt Gox where you can retrieve them 24/7, albeit which 24/7 is anybody's guess.

You are obviously clueless, I suggest you check the specs of the components before pretending you know better.

http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/cpu/473/freezer-a30.html

And the case fans are clearly 140mm. unless my eyes device me. Remember the case is 200mm high, about 4.5RU.

we did, by buying miners!!  This seems more like a hedge bet anyway

thanks for this. yup. 320 watts max. well within limits.

eve, just stop.

Ignore list works for me :)

Your move do·gie

Here's a proper avatar for you as well.

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2009/animals/malnourished_calf_290909_2.jpg

Uh, no.  As other people have pointed out, they're 320W each.


Oh, hundreds huh? But apparently you were totally wrong about the specs of the Artic A30...

LOL at the desperation in this thread, people going to be sad when KNC runs away.

It was a larger model than I thought as I just skimmed over the pic, but just try running that at 320W 24/7 LOL.

So now the chip is 320W instead of 250W? When did that happen.

Apparently it's really difficult for you to keep numbers straight in your head.

It's not desperation, we're basically laughing at you... :D.

You're saying its rated at 320W, I'm saying its not. AC are renowned for overstating their numbers. Just look at the CFM on that 12CM 1200RPM fan ^_^

All this arguing.

I'm getting BFL flashbacks...circa November 2012

O.o

Max. Cooling Capacity    320 Watts
Heatpipe    Direct-Touch Ø 8 mm x 4 (double-sided)
Heatsink Material    Aluminum fins x48, 0.5 mm thick
Fan (mm)    ARCTIC F12 PWM:
120 mm, 400 – 1,350 RPM (PWM controlled)
Airflow    74 CFM / 125.7 m³/h
Bearing    Fluid Dynamic Bearing
Noise Level    0.3 Sone (@1,350 RPM)
Current / Voltage    0.24A/ 12V
Product Dimensions (L x W x H)    100 (L) x 139 (W) x 161 (H) mm
Net Weight    0.9 kg
Limited Warranty    6 years
Packaging Dimensions (L x W x H)    123 (L) x 161 (W) x 187 (H) mm
itemnumber    UCACO-FA30001-GB
UPC    0872767005044
Gross Weight    1.4 kg

Fans are interchangeable, so anyone could mount some Delta 200CFM fans in it (and lock the sucker away, way, way) if needed.

Exactly, I already bet on the KNC horse with a $7000 pre-order, I'm good. Plus after bitbet.us totally screwed up the "BLF ships in April" bet I'm not betting a single satoshi on that site.

So what you're saying is: you actually can't tell the difference between the fan and the chip? The fan is 320W, but the chip is only 250W, or less (probably a lot less)

Also, trying to argue that KnC won't ship because Artic is straight up lying about their heatsink specs is moronic.

You have to types of wattage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt#Electrical_and_thermal_watts) :

• Electrical watts
• Thermal watts

If a chip uses 250 of electrical watts and gives 250 of thermal watts, that means you have a chip with no hashing power.
The cooling capacity of the fan (http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/cpu/473/freezer-a30.html) (320w) is the amount of thermal watts it can deal with. Not the amount of electrical watts, consumed by the chip, it can deal with.

There will be no heating problems. Personally I think one chip will not give more then 125 thermal watts.

Not sure if serious?

All (or 99.9999999% so we can just say "all") electricity used by an electronic circuit is converted to heat.
A chip does not real "work" (in the physics sense).  Law of conservation of energy.  If 100W (electricity) goes in then 100W (heat) comes out.

LOLwhat?

Yeah don't know what that was... anyway, I was remarking that I don't believe the heatsink to be able to dissipate 320W of heat - as they claim it to be able to. And as you can see, the fan CFMs just don't make sense. If it was really 70+ @1200rpm, it would be the best on the market, and not the £4 retail it actually is.

This 120mm fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186079) does 74CFM @ 1300RPM.   It's $9. And actually it's the exact same fan used in the heatsink, as a separate product. Here's another fan from another company (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226042) 1500RPM, 71CFM, $12 and this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226042) is 1400 RPM and 74CFM, for $11.50.

Seriously dude, WTF are you talking about? You're obviously wrong and clearly don't know that much about fans and heatsinks, as these specs are clearly possible and readily available.

Each one is about $40 on Newegg, btw - so that's $160 on cooling if you bought them retail. plus the main case fans.   And even if the specs were off, it wouldn't matter as they're actually overpowered for the expected thermal output.

hes just trying to sound like he knows what hes talking about (which he clearly doesnt) and is obviously trolling. just ignore him.

Yes Please Show us the Asic Chips and the rest can come later.

Is this a bot?

It sounds like one and not very inteligent too.

I get what you're saying, but here's the thing.

1) If everyone who knows better ignores him, people might think he's making reasonable points that people don't have answers too

2) What if he's not trolling, and actually thinks this.  In that case, he needs to know he's wrong. Too many people go through life thinking they're smarter then they are, and believing whatever pops into their head is the truth. Telling them their wrong can help them grow as a person.


I looked at their recent posts and that's basically all they say. They also seem kind of illiterate. I don't know if that's because they don't speak English as a first language or what - they don't seem to be listening to what anyone else is saying.  Definitely ignore material.

Is better to just using ignore button for Eddie.  He just being troll.

Does no one else find it weird they put a (scratched) perspex windows over the FAN OUTLET!
https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/image/case3small.png

The part on the right fits over the part on the left, so there is no aluminium - it should be the desk we see through the part of the right.

It is, there's two cases there. The one on the right has both parts (bottom being scratched), the one on the left is just the base by the looks of things.

So how come no light is getting into the case on the right? The lighting appears to be coming in from the right, so we should be able to see the aluminium on the bottom of the case?

Dude I'm looking at this on an iPad, I can zoom right in.

Here you go, just used an app called 'instaeditor' and played with the levels;

http://j.mp/19nKrX0

^ They should have one of these pillows with every order! This way we could all sleep better at night :D.

Except the PSU wires will be strung through the mouth, so it will look like it's throwing up a rainbow.

^^ I believe if you look to the top of his head he has an antennae to the onboard GPS soo many have been asking for! ;D

Yes, I am aware what fan it is.... If I said my car does 350mph, would you believe me? No, its a number on paper. When you look at the benchmarks or test them yourselves, they just don't perform up to the advertised specs.

Have a look at a table of proper fans. http://www.quietpc.com/120mmfans There is no reason why the dirt cheap would outperform the considered flagship 120mm parts, unless the specs are just overstated. Overstated specs -> almost no one will ever be able to say otherwise, and hey who would listen to them when you can buy these holy grail fans for so cheap?



Let me show you another way. This is a review/test of the heatsink by X-bit.
Methodology: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/arctic-freezer-i30_4.html#sect0

Look at the picture of the test, we can see that at the screenshot the TDP was 27W. If we extrapolate to find the peak, its ~6.5x higher = 175W. Note that wasn't a 100% load in the sense that it was only at 175W for roughly 75% of the time. http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/coolers/arctic-freezer-i30/zfullscr_big.png *not embedded because its massive*

If you then look at the cooling performance at this 75% 175W: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/arctic-freezer-i30_5.html#sect1 Room temp was 24C. At max fan speed the chip was still reaching 79C.

So lets recap:
Test was 175W for 75% of the time.
Ambient was 24C, which is fair.
Fan speed was max, which is fair for testing the max cooling capacity.

However the chip still reached 79C. We want 250W 100% of the time for KNC, and 320W 100% of time for the reported specs to be true. The rating specs are asking for more than double the actual tested heat output, so there is absolutely no way that heatsink is going to get away with 320W.



Oh, and I'm assuming you're aware that where those case fans are mounted is either the intake or the fan is mounted the wrong way.

P.S 250w for one chip is just the worst case scenario.

So I'm sure they'll be fine with the HSF they selected.

What's the point of showing us the case when you don't have the chips. Is like showing us the egg without the chicken. You cannot have an egg without the chicken laying/produce an egg. Show us the Chip Please.

Darwin might have something to say about that. But why am I talking to a bot anyway? (HMMM, evolution in software, perhaps I'm contributing to the advancement of our AI overlords ...)

If you believe that you're a sucker. People sell overpriced stuff all the time. You're also not taking noise level into account, more expensive fans may be optimized for lower sound levels, rather then more air flow.

The only way you would have any relevant experience is if you'd actually fried CPUs.  Simply buying expensive heatsinks and thinking you needed too doesn't mean you know what the minimum actually is.


I don't see 175W anywhere on that page. The chip was massively overclocked and running at 1.385V, way out of spec.  Who knows how much power it was drawing.

And any event, the higher the temperature difference the more energy can be removed. Cooling power at 90C higher then cooling power at 79C.


Then... it's probably the intake? That's how Avalons are setup as well, airflow from front to back.

Anyway, what exactly is your argument?  You think KnC doesn't know what it's doing because they're using fans that cost a few dollars less then other fans? They don't need to buy the best fan possible, they only need one that gets the specific job done. And likely, the chips will put out way less then 250W anyway.

You keep hammering these points over and over again, but even if you're right it doesn't prove that KnC's chips won't ship.  It makes no sense.

Nice to see you totally ignored how I proved TDP in that test was 175W 75% of the time.

It doesn't particularly work that way in heatsinks, that cooling power is higher at 90C. The limit of heatsinks is the immediate transfer of energy from the base plate to the cooling fins, where THEN the cooling is increased. Heatpipes max out pretty quickly, and the chip temps just rocket after the limit.

This choice of heatsinks along with their dodgy/failed thermal simulations which they never properly answered after 3-4 pages are suggesting they either are getting it very wrong @ 250W, or they really don't believe it will be >200W and aren't catering for >200W at all.

As I've also said before, the need for them to be getting things right is blinding people from seeing logic set out line by line.

Had to edit just to add this quote, its too precious:

But Eve, did the chicken really come before the egg?

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_apply_computing

Actually yes. It's already been proven that the chicken came first 8)

And saying a case is like a egg and the chips = chicken, doesn't make any sense. They're not interrelated at all.

The case can exist without the chips.

Ah dammit. I knew this!! I was trying to coerce Eve out of bot mode...;)

Dear Non Engineer,

You don't have a clue about any of the technical information in this thread. Again you're just dismissing the logic spelt out line by line with the sentiment "they must be getting it right".

tldr: Greed/desperation > logic.

Dude, a 'dogie'; a motherless or neglected calf, doesn't play fetch, a 'doggie' does, or 'doggies do'.

Incidentally, 'doggie doo', is pretty much most of what you'll find Dogie espouts...

Just banter. ;)

Again, rather than actually refuse my claims directly you just dismiss them nonchalantly. No problem, I don't have KNC preorders. Ignore away.

somebody please put down this dog.

Again, rather than actually refuse my claims directly you just dismiss them nonchalantly. No problem, I don't have KNC preorders. Ignore away.

Hats off to you sir! you just made my day.

Ok, I do want to see pictures of the PCB.  That would relieve further doubts.

I DO have a KnC preorder and will take any additional information that puts me closer to a solid delivery in September.

Of course I have my doubts. Let's be honest though, would you bet on some of these other companies over KnC? CoinTerra? Hashfast?  Seems like KnC has been the most forthright in this process and they have followed through on things they say publicly thus far.  

people seem to forget the whole mars prototype they made, took pictures of, took video, did an open day with, showed it hashing, pcb with the mistake "bitcoin makes the world go around" on it. what more do you people want, jesus.

You are practically inviting a comment from eve here, you do realise that?

eve can blow me. lol

I dunno, I run an Arctic A30, with the supplied fan (which only does 1100rpm full speed) cooling a FX8320 overclocked to 4.5GHz.  That chip pumps out a LOT of heat.  The fan is slow.  Adding a decent fan would obviously cool the heatsink a lot more than the silent one supplied in the box.

I think their ASICs would need to be pumping out a ridiculous amount of heat to overwhelm an A30.  It's a ridiculously big unit - mine is hard against the side panel of my Fractal Define XL case, that's how big it is.

Which on 100% theoretical OC'ed load is still only 150-175W. But actual games/other uses never 100%. Now more than double that heat output.

Who cares, if it heats up I'll mod my freezer lid for the wires and throw it in there


You haters think the diff is already too high to run it more than 5hours once we get it so who cares about some short term rigging we'll do while it hashes

That would be a bad idea (freezers not designed for continual heat loads).

Still I would expect (hope) that KNC already thermal load tested the cooling equipment.  They don't need chips for that, just an test heat source (heat plate).  They should be able to properly measure both chip and overall system cooling without the need for any chips.

well they will be arriving after the summer, so in the winter they can go in the garage!!

I cant tell if they paid you or you're just dumb

Uh... that's not really what people mean when they say "which came first, the chicken or the egg", typically they asking whether "eggs" or "chickens" came into existence sooner, in general. not whether an egg starts growing before the chicken embryo inside of it.

Um, no you didn't. A screenshot of a graph with no Y axis labels proves exactly nothing.  Especially since it doesn't even show the temperature going up by more then 70% over 41C, yet the article claims the temp was 79C.


Every part of the heatsink moves energy more efficiently when the thermal gradient is higher. Heatpipes, fins, etc. Thermal conductivity is measured in W/m^2 K because as temprature differences increases so does heat flow. It's a straight linear relationship.   Nothing can "max out" on heat transfer, unless it burns or goes through a chemical reaction and turns into another substance. (like from diamond to graphite)

Seriously, you're just proving over and over again you have zero clue when it comes to thermodynamics.


WTF are you talking about?  You haven't done any "engineering" or said anything "logical" all you did was post a random screenshot of a graph with no labels and that doesn't even match up with the other numbers and claimed.... something.

Shipment is supposed to start very soon, in June I was told in August they would present a working ASIC prototype - any news on that?

Nope, they were just joking.  Ya know, those crazy Swedes

When I said RasPi, I was (as Bitcoinorama pointed out) referring to any generic linux based mini controller board which, If you have been listening to KNC, it is what they hinted they would be using so that the Jupiter is literally a plug and play and walk away device. I dont know what is so unbelievable about them developing such a device if they wanted to, it would cost under 10 bucks and they would prolly use it in all the models.
Go back and read the news releases if you want the "information"

Its quite obvious what the 5V supply is for and to see so much confusion in this thread is quite surprising.

cheers,
kev

Initially the release said ONLY 5V (as in no 12V connector) which is what resulted in confusion for the first half of the thread.

I dont recall that, I received the newsletter to my e-mail address and I thought that it said both 12V & 5V supply.
Even if it only said 5V Anyone would have thought that they had made a typo otherwise they would have been shipping ESAB Welding sets instead of Bitcoin miners,  Oh hang on  minute, Isnt ESAB Swedish?    ;)

cheers,
kev

LOL so much fail in this post. I linked you to an impartial review, and you're dismissing it as if it was specifically written to backup my statement. Yes, that graph is definitely wrong isnt it *sigh*

No, it doesn't work that way in a heatpipe based super tower. Heatpipes do max out, it gets to the point where the working fluid can't condense again.

As I've said many times, you're really clueless and its not worth arguing with. You turn real science into "it must be a shill". Leaving you ignored now.