Bitcoin Forum

nt

I dont think it matters who levels the accusation, dont shoot the messenger etc..

Regardless of what you think of that forum, if you read the thread, they have uncovered some extremely worrysome things about Bruce's past, which I think we all should get clarified before deciding to do business with him.  Or letting him become our freaking spokesperson!

I guess I have seen some things on that thread that are inconsequential (such as his homosexuality) and some things that are very alarming. It appears that he has been convicted of mortgage fraud in Illinoi, furthermore, what really concern me actually was his replies to some of the statements, like specifying he was just "replying" to the guy talking about having a sexual "three prong attack" with a minor.

What is worrisome about this is that no decent person (IMHO) will be reading a forum like that, nor taking the time to reply on how to properly tip these underage prostitutes.

Then he goes on to say that the situation in there is "very sad". If this is the case, why do we, as a community, want to stimulate their economy by bringing a convention to such a horrid place that clearly condones underage prostitution and human trafficking amongst other things?

Finally, there is a twitter of him describing Pattaya as "Paradise on earth", but now he claims the situation is really sad in there? I wouldn't want to vacation in a place with such a display of human misery and exploitation. What is so paradisaical about that?

He also claimed on ones of his replies that he ultimately "doesn't care" where the conference gets organized, however, from ALL the places in the world, why pick this one? And how does that last statement conjures up with saying "It is like paradise on earth".

This, coupled with the fact that I believe the NY conference was purposefully and deceitfully sold to sponsors (did you guys saw CNN in there? or all those media outlets they were supposed to be there) makes me believe the following:

1. Bruce Wagner, at its best, is a is a convicted scammer. Not only a scammer, but scamming poor families trying to get help to not loose their homes. At its worst, he is a child molester who solicits and pays for underage boys to satisfied his wicked pleasures contributing to perpetuate one of the most perverse places in the world.
2. As for whether he is a pedophile or not, some scream "Show me concrete proof". This is a fallacy. Not even a court of law needs irrefutable proof to convict somebody, they only need for the jury to be convinced "beyond reasonable doubt" of a certain fact.
3. In revising the material posted online about Bruce's twitters, his participation in that despicable forum (admitted by himself), his contradictory statements regarding Pattaya, and several other comments, I can conclude, WAY BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that the man is a degenerate, a pedophile, and a promoter and user of underage prostitution.

I would like to close by saying that this is not about homosexuals, at all. This is about adults, paying for underage sex with child slaves, because at the end of the day, that's what they are regarding of sex, or sexual orientation. I am in fact a volunteer for GLAAD, and as a worker for gay rights, people like Wagner simply makes me want to cry.


TO MTGOX ET AL

I will respectfully ask all companies doing business with him to withdraw their sponsorship and support. Even if the guy is NOT a pedophile and a scammer, you really want to have your name associated with somebody advising on forums how to properly tip an underage prostitute? HE HAS ADMITTED THAT WAS HIS POST. Any company supporting this, it is at the very least supporting a very questionable person.

Shad0wBitz

I think the messenger should be shot.  That being said, wild monkeys throw poo the best.

Is Bruce talking to anyone, anywhere?

Hello,

I am unsure if the monkey reference is directed towards me, but note I don't know the messenger, nor I know who the messenger is, other than have heard they might be involved with the mybitcoin scam. I will get myself more informed on that matter and then post my impression regarding that subject, but for now, I am simply pointing out material that is out there on the internet (some of it official, such as his conviction by the state of Illinois). I am not even talking about the message per se.

Dayfall, can you explain to us why the messenger should be shot?  Should whistle blowers be shot? Should police informants be shot?

It appears you think all of these accusations are 100% unfounded, is that so?  Can you tell us why you have come to this conclusion despite the mounting evidence?

I understand unfounded accusations can be ruinous, however, after reading the something awful thread, how can you believe Bruce is NOT a serial scammer and quite possibly something far worse?

I've been following the recent stuff about Bruce, and I'm sorry, but you cannot ignore the evidence that can be directly linked back to Bruce.

[Edit] Stuff removed from the post. I might have got users mixed up ;)

I bet most of the people who think Bruce is Guilty are SA members ...I asked for raise of hands earlier and about the whole thread was all paid SA hitmen ...goal to destroy individuals and this forum.

Bbit, do you honestly think people are paid to come here and discredit others?  Trying to have a decent discussion here about an important matter and we could do without your trolling.

I think Bruce is guilty. The courts have ruled that he has been guilty of fraud, prostitution, speeding etc. The evidence is there for all to see.

I'm not from SomethingAwful, but I know enough about SA to point out that you calling them 'paid SA hitmen' is ludicrous. Somethingawful is a large and well known community that has been around for 11 years.

So, my question to you is what have you got to lose by Bruce being exposed for the scammer and fraudster that he is? Are you complicit in his crimes?

I'm off to register an account at SomethingAwful, and hopefully I can earn some money being a paid 'hitman' lol. I wonder if they pay their bounties in BTC.

You know, this is actually an excellent question and.... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20325.msg254396#msg254396

Oh wow, good find. This is a quote of the post in question:


So thank you for answering my question. So bbit, are you Ed or Manny?

Wow, makes sense now doesnt it.  Bbit, how much are you being paid to steer suspicion away from Bruce?

I'm still jail-locked in this subforum. Could someone please post the bbit/onlyonetv connection in some of the other threads where he is defending Bruce?

Someone on SomethingAwful has screencapped the post in question:

https://i.imgur.com/k6K8L.png

I'm seriously going to be signing up to SA. It looks like an amazing place.

I thought a lot of the child sex allegations were pretty out of line, tenuous at best, but for the most part completely unfounded. I created this account to throw in my 2c in defense before I realized I wouldn't be able to post outside of this forum.

Then I read his statements on the issue. Still continuing to deny Pattaya's massive problem with child prostitution. Trying to characterize New York City as being more lenient on child sex, and even the failure to acknowledge that prostitution is illegal. Flat-out lying and saying that the 'three-pronged attack' words were not his. Talking about "38 year olds" being called 'boy' and being "older than he is", when he's 50 years old himself and writing in a thread about virgins and newbies.

No, these in no way prove or hint anything to discredit his claims that he is not a pedophile. I will not state or even imply that he has any desire for underage men. But they reflect a kind of dishonesty and spin that I don't feel comfortable with. What would be wrong with making a statement like "Child sex is a problem in Pattaya, but I have never done such a thing"? Not to mention continuing to claim Pattaya was chosen first for its suitability for a Bitcoin Expo first, rather than recreation.

Then the fraud stuff came up. Bruce Wagner of OnlyOneTV is, without a doubt, undeniably, the Bruce Wagner of Bold Funding, the company that scammed and defrauded many families out of their homes and stole at least $125,000.

This is not a man that should be the face of Bitcoin. And it makes me very suspicious about his unwavering support of mybitcoin, something that was discussed and deemed suspicious by certain posters several months ago.

Molly, don't you find it ironic that is SA's whole goal as  group so don't lecture me about trolling - troll.

ok.

I am a member now, yes. I've just registered an account.

As for stupid correlations, I'm sorry, but you are deluded and very wrong. If you actually check the SA thread, you will find some water-tight correlations based on facts and evidence - either from Bruce, or the people he scammed, or from court records.

And defamation/libel is only defamation/libel if it is untrue. I registered using my real name and real email address by the way. I'm a 41 year old IT specialist btw. I notice that you are hiding behind anonymity.

I also notice that you didn't answer my question bbit. The lack of answers speaks volumes imho.

Do I need to watch the Bitcoin Show episode in question to find out who you are?

Have you ever even been to the SA forums?  Have you even looked at the bitcoin thread there?  I doubt it the way you speak of it.

You can call me whatever you like Bbit, Ill let my posts speak for themselves, but you did not answer the question, do you honestly think people from SA are PAID by some entity to come here and discredit bitcoin users?

What do you want to know ? I'm transparent you aren't   your a plant from SA to spew hate about bitcoin and other members ... the board isn't a place to decide that the courts are your ilk need to stfu and get off this board ...you provide no value  at all  nobody can tell me what value you bring?

yes, they are paid actually - you didn't know that ?  they are paid to troll dummy.

Even untrue statements are not libellous/defamatory unless, in addition to being proved false, can be demonstrated to have caused harm AND made without reasonable research into its truthfulness.

I think they're providing us with a invaluable service, none of this fraud stuff came up before the SA people started to investigate it.  

Bbit, I think you've got your head in the sand.

Where in the blue blazes do you get the idea that they are paid to troll people??  Who pays them? Why? I don't understand where you've gotten this idea from.

And please, don't start with the name calling, it wont help anything.

Bbit> You said that you were on an episode of the bitcoin show. Which episode was that, and what did you talk about?

Will lets see they pay a "fee" to be there hmmmm I wonder if any of them get paid to do what they do ? I'm just doing what SA does when it comes to name calling. You can't be objective you got your head so far up SA's ass you wouldn't know what a troll is if it hit you in the face.

This is an interesting post more or less on the same lines of what I was saying. I think Mr. Wagner's reply on that thread honestly worsen his image and credibility. Agreed there is no proof that he is a pedophile, but for me as stated, this is beyond any reasonable doubt.

You are aware of bandwidth costs? Running a site that large cant be cheap and they have very few ads. IIRC they pay a single time to acquire posting rights, so the users aren't being paid, but are actually themselves paying.
Are you honestly suggesting that the owners of SA have some kind of trolling slush fund they dip into to pay users to troll other sites?

I'm not sure how you equate me asking about info they've uncovered with having my head up their ass.
I would argue that if anyone here has lost objectivity its you.
Do you think they are fabricating court documents etc?  Whether or not some users troll is a moot point right now.
Have you personally looked at the evidence?

Please dont call me names, I havent called you any.

To me it kind of seems like Bruce stole (or spent) a lot of bitcoins that he had access to and then claimed that he lost them.
I can't accept that any person would be so careless with such an irreplaceable file; but nobody really knows I guess.

To me it really seems like Bitcoin associating with Bruce would cause irreparable harm to the Bitcoin name.
As a community we need to cast him out, it is nothing personal but he has demonstrated in past and current situations that he is not trustworthy or a good image to represent Bitcoin.

I don't think anyone is claiming that SA is ONLY presenting evidence, but they ARE presenting evidence.
Interest in bitcoin, or interest in seeing a scammer get his come-upance, either way they sure seem interested in the matter at hand, to all btc users benefit.

It benefits you too bbit, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm not saying it wouldn't if it is true. I hope the community would quickly realize we need someone else or something else representing Bitcoin. But the fact you turn a blind eye to all the terrible things being said by SA members just shows you aren't paying attention.

I suppose I could have rose colored glasses on, they are leveling some terribly heavy accusations at him, but they arent entirely unfounded.

I think we are starting to read off the same page bbit ;)

This is my only concern. As I posted in the in the bitcoin discussion thread, I really do care about bitcoins. I've invested a lot of money in it over the past 9 months, and I trade a lot with BTC's. I don't want a huge PR mess explode in our faces to the likes of 'Crypto Currency often associated with fraudsters and paedophiles promoted by a convicted fraudster and potential paedophile'. There is already a lack of confidence with BitCoin which is reflected in the recent trading prices.

While it would be stupid to deny that there are a lot of trolls on SA, SA is not a troll site. You should check it out sometime - it is a huge community, and they discuss many things. It is foolish and naive not to look at the evidence that they have uncovered regarding Bruce and Ed.

I think that we need to look at the evidence, while ignoring obvious trolls, and get to the bottom of this situation.

Look, a troll!

There aren't any concrete libel laws in America, we used to use the commonwealth law for libel but it has been struck down.
It is very hard to almost impossible for someone in America to be charged with defamation or libel due to the first amendment.
Because the accusations levied against Bruce are not provably false, there is no libel case.
Furthermore the communications decency act mostly makes libel cases pertaining to Internet forums impossible for the plaintiff to win.

Bbit I think your concerns here are totally grounded, and if there's money changing hands to destry this man's reputation it would do a lot of harm to the credibility of these trolls.  Is there any more you can share about people being paid to slander this guy?

I would be happy to help get the message out in what is increasingly an unfair, one-sided conversation about Bruce being a money-swindling sex tourist with only circumstantial (online) evidence to back it up.

Wow, bbit, you are doing a better job of trolling new people here than anyone from SA ever did, keep up the good work. 

This.

Yes Bruce Wagner has responded multiple times. Here and in IRC. He has responded with dodges, lies, and half-apologies. The mortgage fraud was just mismanagement and he's really sorry for it, he never said he called the fbi just that he talked to them, etc,etc etc.

--

Really, I honestly wish the Thailand/child prostitute stuff never got brought into the whole mess, because while it is certainly alarming, it is mostly completely circumstantial and somewhat ambiguous evidence and makes the whole thing look like a bad talk show episode. (Yes, I realize it is alarming and Bruce somewhat brought in on himself by his freakishly vociferous defending of Pattaya as the next location for a bitcoin conference. Why? I have no idea.)

--

Mostly it is clear that he is a dodgy guy with a dodgy past that quite possibly screwed a lot of people out of money. This plus the fact that he was not only the biggest promoter of mybitcoin but supposedly lost 25k coins to them AND was supposedly paid back but refuses to provide any confirmation of that transaction makes me a lot more worried that he is currently scamming lots of people out of their money.

I have no idea why anyone in the bitcoin community would continue to defend him at this point. This project went from interesting open source project to some sort of shrill tribalism and cultishness in just a few months. Quite breathtaking actually. One minute bitcoin was a prototype, the next minute it was being sold as the One True Currency. One minute the forums were a useful place to talk about bitcoin, the next minute they were Our Home and Under Attack.

There are other places where interesting talk is happening around complementary currencies and both the advantages and limitations of the current blockchain technologies. But that place isn'[t here.

I applaud the developers for remaining largely clear of the fray and still focusing on the big picture of what is important about bitcoin.

Why do you hate bitcoin?  You are obviously a troll who seeks to destroy it by simply accepting what has been planted. 

I know, I know.

Gerken your a troll aren't you ?

@ mikegogulski

I was interested in purchasing a bitcoin script from you. Can you PM me so we can chat? Im not allowed to PM myself yet :/

just email myfirstname @ mylastname . com

Is there anyone on this board that you don't think is a troll? You seem rather paranoid.

wrong. libel has nothing to do with truth. This is covered in other threads. Libel is about malicious intent to bring shame and disrepute to the target.

At least one SA members have already admitted they where doing this out of revenge.

He's actually correct, MollyR who only has 16 posts. Sit back down little girl, and let the man speak.

Your misogyny is strangely compelling. Please do go on.

I wonder how long it can last, the technology vs the soap operas.

Yeah, try not to sound like a sexist piece of shit you ass.

You're all obviously trolls :sticks fingers in ears: Lalalala

Only on The Official Unofficial Bitcoin Forums, do people call out people for being "sexist" the second the acknowledge someone's sex. 

I have to break this down to make sure I am confused.

" Sit back down little girl, and let the man speak. "

I have read and read this again and again, you can replace the word "girl" with ANYTHING, and it doesn't change the meaning of what is being said, if anything, it may possibly make what is said more insulting if the term "little girl" wasn't used, but instead an actual derogatory term.

Or maybe that is it, you find that being a little girl is derogatory?  Thus that is the insult itself?   castlegoat, are you a sexist?

Oh great, the guy trying to make money by exploiting women with porn has something to say about sexism.  Look, when you infantalize a woman by calling her a girl and tell her to shut up and listen to a man, you are being sexist.   I don't expect someone engaged in such a disgusting, unchristian industry to understand that though. 

Cock gets exploited too, grow up, porn is for everyone, don't continue on with the sexism please.

They're right it is sexist, and redirecting instead of answering is a common tactic employed by the defensive, so i don't blame you on that one. 

Porn is overwhelmingly consumed by men.  It often depicts degradation and shame of women and does not promote a healthy body image.   This pollutes the expectations men have in their relationships with the other sex.  I urge you to read this (http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/PornHappens.html) and this. (http://www.biblegateway.com/)

In addition, there is homosexual pornography out there that draws the unsuspecting into a lifestyle of sin, disease, and degradation.  I will pray for you.

Gotta stop your sexism right here.  It seems when you take information regarding a sex, race, or etc.  And you compile that information into data that you can make claims about, well people around these parts consider that sexist, no?

So your assumption that porn is "overwhelmingly" (what is "overwhelming" amount of porn anyways?) consumed by men is based on?

My personal experience has been very very mixed, while of course men are more vocal/proud (from my compiled information), the ladies are not only into watching porn, but more so than just 'with a guy'... they watch it on their own.  A lot.    On my Bitcoin Porn picture blog, exactly .3888(repeating) percent are female, so while I can pull a 60/40 and say men are the majority, the use of the word 'overwhelmingly' .. well.. it's just plain sexist.

But you are now derailing the thread, please answer the question without being sexist, why do you find that being a little girl is a derogatory thing?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=sex-in-bits-and-bytes

Calling a little girl a little girl is not derogatory, calling an adult woman a little girl who should shut up because a man is talking is clearly sexist.  Since you are obviously just trolling at this point, I will stop replying and return to silently praying for your redemption.

I just realized your name is "PinkiePie"  :D

But yeah, you are choosing to make the statement sexist.   Calling anyone who is not a little girl, a 'little girl' is an insult, you choose to take it past that point and make it about men and women.  I stand by the argument the less the person is a little girl, the more of an insult it is. So yes, calling a grown woman a 'little girl' is insulting, but not as bad as calling an old man a 'little girl' in that same derogatory way, not sure what hood you were brought up in.     The statement can be taken as sexist as long as the person you are calling a little girl, is not a little girl.

Case closed, argue otherwise, points are moot, when it comes down to it, only bitrebel can truly settle this, as only he knows his intent when he said the statement.   

Gave you not seen his other posts?  Everything he says is derogatory, ignorant, and/or just dumb.  You can give him the benefit of the doubt if it makes you feel like a better person though. 

So just to be clear here: No, Bruce has never talked about the accusations of fraud against him?

He has, he explained that his business did collapse and some people lost money but this was not a result of fraud, he did his best but was unable to help them like he intended.  Businesses collapse all the time, that doesn't mean they are scams.

But according to those court documents Bruce never helped a single person. How is that not a scam?

Hang him!

And burn down Pattaya!

And crown the internet judges!

I have.  I disagree.  It does not, but sometimes doing right in the world doesn't always make you feel like a better person, you just have to have faith and keep fighting evil anyways.

Amen, brother, and this applies never more intensely when you're a right bastard who ought to burn in righteous hell fire forever.


CAN I GET AN AMEN?

I sir, am feeling the praises, through out my body

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2389691_o.gif

I'm joinin' together now, right here in bitcointalk, with BitcoinPorn, and we're singin' HALLELUJAH in unison.

And then, amen.

There's cake in the social hall after.

All this careposting and not one word about collectible plastic ponies?

as a resident of Pattaya I would like to point out that there is no more underage prostitution here then in any other city in the world. Yes there is a lot of prostitution, the economy is based on it ever since the US military started coming here, but underage prostitution is illegal here, same as most western countries.  In 5 years I have never seen children being sold and never been offered any. I have no doubt there is child prostitution here if you look hard enough as it is in every city in the world. I know that wont sell many newspapers in the west but thats the way it is.

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, period. So your claims that it 'doesn't happen' because it's 'illegal' are flawed.



*Thailand's own* research estimates that 40% of all prostitutes in Thailand are children. You're crazy if you think it's 'no more' than any other city.

all i know is that in 5 years I have seen no sign of it, prostitutes, yes Ive seen thousands, child prostitutes, not one so far

What is your nationality?

No child prostitutes? What about "really short" prostitutes?

Is that any different from the US. where did I claim that it "doesnt happen" or that legality is the reason it doesn't happen?


thats a 20 fold difference, I wouldnt call that an estimate, I would call it a wild guess
they sure hide them well, I wonder what the research involved?

so how many child prostitutes are there estimated to be in the US?

yes, there are short ones, the thing is, I dont care, all Im saying it that its a myth to portray pattaya as some kind of child prostitution place, sure you can no doubt hunt it out and its quite likely someone will report you to the police or blackmail you, but its not on the streets at all

Didn't read this entire thread, but I'm a regular at the something awful forums, and it's true they have an irrational hatred of bitcoins. There was a huge thread on them and a ton of people seem almost personally offended by the fact that these things exist. It was so annoying that I had to stop following it because I would make one vague claim about these being cool and 20 people would jump on me for being an idiot.

That said, the forums there are the best on the internet all things considered, and being close minded about some dorky things is just the nature of the beast there.

I don't think anyone is portraying Pattaya as some sort of place where there are big "SEXY PRETEEN BOYS" neon signs or anything. I was also critical of the accusations of pedophilia against Bruce Wagner, until he decided to lie about what he did and didn't write in a thread about seducing virgins for 500 baht.

I understand that there is another side to Pattaya, but the fact remains, incidents of child prostitution are much higher in parts of Asia.  Pattaya is known for being a 'prostitution paradise'. And where there's prostitution, there's child prostitution. Hotel staff in Pattaya are specifically trained (http://www.reuters.com/article/2006/12/15/us-children-thailand-sex-idUSBKK8192720061215) to warn guests that its illegal, and there are many Pattaya-specific outreach programs for the children that end up there.

And just because you don't personally witness something doesn't mean it isn't rampant. Do you frequent sex clubs, or just the streets? Are you a western tourist, or a local?

I cant say I have ever noticed 2000 kids on the streets like that article claims, maybe going to and from school but not wondering round selling stuff. Im not saying child prostitution  doesnt happen, Im just saying that its no more common in pattaya then in many western cities. it may well be more common amongst the thais but on the streets and in the sex clubs of pattaya where most westerners go you dont see children selling sex or even looking remotely like they may be available for sex.

jongood, which one are you?  ???

This guy?
https://i.imgur.com/MsPRd.jpg

Or this chap?
https://i.imgur.com/AZgDZ.jpg

Perhaps this gent?
https://i.imgur.com/Ynox3.jpg

This fellow?
https://i.imgur.com/4JsN5.jpg

This farang familiar?
https://i.imgur.com/IJzeN.jpg

This feller?
https://i.imgur.com/CYiuP.jpg

Hiding behind your glasses?
https://i.imgur.com/n54fg.jpg

Just admiring the goods?
https://i.imgur.com/NB54L.jpg

Heading back to yours?
https://i.imgur.com/mtPEW.jpg

Chilling on the couch?
https://i.imgur.com/vEYIx.jpg

Or possibly even?
https://i.imgur.com/u0aEp.jpg

In conclusion, Pattaya isn't a seedy place at all, why do you people keep going on about it
https://i.imgur.com/59b2I.jpg

they all look like john galt to me ;D

How DARE any of you fire these accusations at BDUB? Bruce wagner is one of the most genuine people i have ever met! He was always willing to talk to me when OOTV was running, always happy to explain himself, he is all about transparency! I would feel ashamed of myself were I to be in your shoes.

Bruce is just what bit coin needs! A good face with a good heart to help get the good word out about bc! I can only hope to be as great and loveing of a man as he some day.

Kinda missed the boat on this one, try again. 

What do you mean? What boat have I missed?

This whole thing is one seriously sad chapter.

In a super huge open book that doesn't seem to be closing any time soon and some actually consider this Bruce Saga as part of a trilogy, the Goxing, the Brucing, and what is next?