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Title: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: acarli on December 07, 2018, 08:03:58 PM Hey guys. This is not a bashing post. I was thinking about some cool bitcoin topics and checked out the forums were I could post. Sometimes I like to spend some time making an awesome post. As you know it takes a while to write a quality post that will encourage quality engagement from other users. I noticed that on quite a few forums the moderators do not give out insignificant amounts of smerit. I will certainly post regardless, but I thought that it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads.
What do you guys think is a solution? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on December 07, 2018, 08:18:15 PM First of all, mods aren't responsible for giving out merits--the community as a whole is. Second, whether you earn merits or not depends on basically two factors, 1) Whether your post is good or not, and 2) Your post has to be seen by someone with sMerits to give.
If you're posting in a thread that has many pages of replies, and I don't have a hard number for this, no one is likely going to even see your post. Certain sections like Bitcoin Discussion and the entire altcoin section are full of spammers just posting to get paid. Since anyone with either a brain or sMerits to give is going to avoid those sections, posting there isn't likely to do you any favors. You're fortunate to have gotten as many merits as you have. Many members with your rank and post count have gotten ZERO merits, and they're not likely to earn any for the rest of their miserable careers on bitcointalk. It's not supposed to be easy to earn merits; that's the whole point of the system. If it was easy, it wouldn't prevent shitposters from ranking up and the whole system would be useless. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: kingpin4321 on December 07, 2018, 08:34:55 PM You have become quite synonymous to making post that relates to merit or smerit
Could your interest be a merit hunt in disguise? The merit system is perfectly arrange and is working on very much fine why don't we leave it the way it is and focus on the pressing issues Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Infinixhot1996 on December 07, 2018, 08:37:25 PM The duty of moderators on each"board" is to clean up that board/section and try and keep it as sane as possible,through deleting low content and spam posts or topics
It's not their duty to hand out merits,thats not to say they dont/do,as a matter of fact it's not anyone's duty to hand out Smerits except probably the merit sources which to an extent is their duty, and they'll only do so to worthy posts. With or without merits,or merit giving mods or members,that definitely shouldn't deter you from coming up with the quality stuff you claim you want to, merit is just an addition,as our major purpose here is to discuss(sensibly through quality topics) Be careful of the section you'll post your topic,otherwise it definitely may not even merits but get reported for being a spamfest Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: acarli on December 07, 2018, 08:53:38 PM First of all, mods aren't responsible for giving out merits--the community as a whole is. Second, whether you earn merits or not depends on basically two factors, 1) Whether your post is good or not, and 2) Your post has to be seen by someone with sMerits to give. You're fortunate to have gotten as many merits as you have. Many members with your rank and post count have gotten ZERO merits, and they're not likely to earn any for the rest of their miserable careers on bitcointalk. It's not supposed to be easy to earn merits; that's the whole point of the system. If it was easy, it wouldn't prevent shitposters from ranking up and the whole system would be useless. Thank you for the clarification. I haven't been around here enough to fully understand the roles of moderators. Admittedly, in the back of my mind maybe I want to be "validated". lol. I'll work on that. You have become quite synonymous to making post that relates to merit or smerit .. Could your interest be a merit hunt in disguise? .. I strongly disagree with you on that one. Check out my posts. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Thirdspace on December 07, 2018, 11:31:22 PM I noticed that on quite a few forums the moderators do not give out insignificant amounts of smerit. I will certainly post regardless, but I thought that it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads. mods aren't merit distributors, appointed merit sources are so keep posting... as a thread starter or involved in a long thread doesn't warrant a merit if you feel discouraged just because not getting merit then you're in this forum for the wrong reason Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 02:19:16 AM Hey guys. This is not a bashing post. I was thinking about some cool bitcoin topics and checked out the forums were I could post. Sometimes I like to spend some time making an awesome post. As you know it takes a while to write a quality post that will encourage quality engagement from other users. I noticed that on quite a few forums the moderators do not give out insignificant amounts of smerit. I will certainly post regardless, but I thought that it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads. What do you guys think is a solution? You are indeed correct. However the real fault lies with the myriads of spammers and bots and puppet accounts because they make it far more difficult to locate good posters. This will eventually be solved meanwhile don't worry too much about merit. If you are determined to get optimal recognition for good posts (in terms of merit) you will need to use the stats provided on meta to locate the best boards to post on. Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. I calculated that if you were to remove merits given by the top 300 to the top 200 and removed all merits given in this meta sub board most people (except a handful) would only have got max 100/150 merits. Most of the top 200 saw reductions in the 50% - 75% range (that was without subtracting merits given on the meta sub board. With that you could be looking at reductions up to 95%. So if you have got even say 10 merits and none from the meta board (except what I just gave you for noticing this and making a relevant post here) then you are doing very well actually. If you are a good poster you will eventually get known on the basis of your work here and I would then not worry about the rankings and merits too much. On top of all of that there is serious gaming going on. There was a case of a legend just giving 50 merits each to 2 other accounts for nearly identical post (not really deserving of any merit) when analysed all 3 shared an eth addy so looked like highly probably alts. I would think these cases should be treated a little more harshly but merit is subjective so not really possible to police to make it fairer right now. There does not really need to be a solution right now because merit is working to prevent a lot of negative behaviour ( as opposed to having no merit system) and also over time once the bots, account farmers, ico spammers vanish it will be easier to locate your posts and you would hope the merit system will balance out. I have suggested a few alternatives but nobody really liked them. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Jet Cash on December 08, 2018, 07:17:30 AM Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. I don't think that is true, and coupling that with the comment about meriting Meta posts, put me off awarding the merits that I was going to award in this thread. :) Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: khaled0111 on December 08, 2018, 10:34:30 AM Whenever you find a good thread that didn't receive any merit, you can send the link to Suchmoon (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=234771).
Take a look at his thread: * FREE merits - CLICK HERE!!! * (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5031461) It is not going to solve the problem, but it can help. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Findingnemo on December 08, 2018, 12:39:38 PM Moderators are just moderators,their work is to moderate the sections where they have been assigned.I don't know how many of the mods are merit sources here but giving out the merit is not the work of moderators its the responsibility of merit sources and all other forum members who have sMerits to send.
Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: mdayonliner on December 08, 2018, 12:49:32 PM What do you guys think is a solution? There are merit sources who are actively looking to award merits to those who qualifies. Keep doing the good works and merit will follow you. The mods are not responsible to give away merits. Don't expect any from them.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 08, 2018, 12:51:42 PM ~it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads. The forum is overrun by spammers, so the number of posts in a thread doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the thread.Quote What do you guys think is a solution? You could apply to be a Merit source, but I don't think you'll be selected considering this:I haven't been around here enough to fully understand the roles of moderators. Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. You keep posting this as if it's a bad thing :P Quality posts deserve Merit, and the same posters have sMerit to give. It makes perfect sense that a large share of all merit goes around in a small number of users.I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Upgrade00 on December 08, 2018, 01:01:58 PM Moderators are not responsible for merit awarding neither are regular members, the only group charged with distributing merits are sources, and it's a voluntary task, so we can cut them some slack.
There are lots of problems presented as a reason for lack of efficient merit distribution across the boards. High level of spam on some boards and very little moderation makes members unwilling to dig through the pile in search of quality posts. The only immediate solution that can be implemented is the Reporter badge which has been discussed at length, and maybe additional incentives to clean up the forum. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: The Cryptovator on December 08, 2018, 01:02:47 PM I am not encourage to claim moderators about send merit. On the other hand all moderators are not merit source so they should have enough smerit to send others. Secondly they should have enough time to read your thread because they are too busy. Moderating forum isn't easy work that we think.
Sometimes it's depend on board where you made post. If it's Bitcoin related, I mean if you made post on Bitcoin Discussion board then very low chance that gain merit. Especially Altcoin Discussion & Bitcoin Discussion board. Even sometimes I am looking for send few merit to newbie and demoted newbie I can't find most of day. Then how will moderators find quality post ? However mod are not responsible for handle merit. Merit source and we are responsible for that. Most of people's don't want to spend merit especially who got from airdrop. Because they don't know how hard to earn merit. So we should encourage to spend our smerit instead of claim mod. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 01:47:22 PM Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. You keep posting this as if it's a bad thing :P Quality posts deserve Merit, and the same posters have sMerit to give. It makes perfect sense that a large share of all merit goes around in a small number of users.I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification. @jetcash it is actually 100% true you can test it for yourself. also this bunch of stats provided by r1s2g3 after I asked if he could provide https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit#gid=429409603 demonstrates the scale of the merit cycling in the tiny fraction of a percent of posters that is without meta subsection (highly concentrated merit club) being removed. My figure estimates I think will be found to be entirely correct. You can expect some of the highest merit receivers to take a 95% hair cut. @loyce It only makes sense the merit back slappers club that the top 0.02 retain 50% of all their merits cycled around internally and mostly in meta I am clearly observing merit is mostly given for simply aligning your view with others whom are active in meta and have lots of merit to give. I am seeing merit given time and time again for the voicing of opinions that are actually clearly wrong based on observable events. Trying to conflate high merit with high value posts is incorrect. Let me say though this is not entirely negative and I see no reason not to merit people you agree with or a friend/pal posting something you find amusing etc...... merit is for fun as well it seems. Also in meta people will almost do things you ask and you feel justified in repaying with a bit of merit. What is wrong is to imply merit is an indication of a posts value or rather having high merit qualifies you as automatically a better post than those with less merit. Merit is helping stop lots of negative behaviour and is fun. Therefore a positive thing. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 08, 2018, 02:05:49 PM I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification. You're stealing my business LOL I've had this type of offer open to ANYONE for three months now and it just doesn't work. Good luck to you though :) Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 08, 2018, 02:22:26 PM I've had this type of offer open to ANYONE for three months now and it just doesn't work. Good luck to you though :) I've given similar offers to a few people. Let's just say it's an offer that gets ignored most of the time :(Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: acarli on December 08, 2018, 05:40:53 PM ..... I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification. Thank you LoyceV. I've only three so far. I wasn't quite sure if you meant any other threads in the "meta" forum. I'll go with this specific topic. So far, I would give merit tp 2 posts for sure, and a solid maybe on the third. Here they are: (1) cryptohunter : firstly he gives good quality information that is not readily obvious. He showed he made an effort and spent time formulating his post. I also searched for duplicate content, just to make sure you guys werent' pulling my leg. lol He wrote: ....... You are indeed correct. However the real fault lies with the myriads of spammers and bots and puppet accounts because they make it far more difficult to locate good posters. This will eventually be solved meanwhile don't worry too much about merit. If you are determined to get optimal recognition for good posts (in terms of merit) you will need to use the stats provided on meta to locate the best boards to post on. Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. I calculated that if you were to remove merits given by the top 300 to the top 200 and removed all merits given in this meta sub board most people (except a handful) would only have got max 100/150 merits. Most of the top 200 saw reductions in the 50% - 75% range (that was without subtracting merits given on the meta sub board. With that you could be looking at reductions up to 95%. So if you have got even say 10 merits and none from the meta board (except what I just gave you for noticing this and making a relevant post here) then you are doing very well actually. If you are a good poster you will eventually get known on the basis of your work here and I would then not worry about the rankings and merits too much. On top of all of that there is serious gaming going on. There was a case of a legend just giving 50 merits each to 2 other accounts for nearly identical post (not really deserving of any merit) when analysed all 3 shared an eth addy so looked like highly probably alts. I would think these cases should be treated a little more harshly but merit is subjective so not really possible to police to make it fairer right now. There does not really need to be a solution right now because merit is working to prevent a lot of negative behaviour ( as opposed to having no merit system) and also over time once the bots, account farmers, ico spammers vanish it will be easier to locate your posts and you would hope the merit system will balance out. I have suggested a few alternatives but nobody really liked them. Again he engaged with other's comments. This shows me he actually read the responses and is engaging. Doesn't that generall add value to the forum? I think so. Now the question I would have is what is the threshold for merit allocation. (2) cryptohunter : it is actually 100% true you can test it for yourself. also this bunch of stats provided by r1s2g3 after I asked if he could provide https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit#gid=429409603 demonstrates the scale of the merit cycling in the tiny fraction of a percent of posters that is without meta subsection (highly concentrated merit club) being removed. My figure estimates I think will be found to be entirely correct. You can expect some of the highest merit receivers to take a 95% hair cut. @loyce It only makes sense the merit back slappers club that the top 0.02 retain 50% of all their merits cycled around internally and mostly in meta I am clearly observing merit is mostly given for simply aligning your view with others whom are active in meta and have lots of merit to give. I am seeing merit given time and time again for the voicing of opinions that are actually clearly wrong based on observable events. Trying to conflate high merit with high value posts is incorrect. Let me say though this is not entirely negative and I see no reason not to merit people you agree with or a friend/pal posting something you find amusing etc...... merit is for fun as well it seems. Also in meta people will almost do things you ask and you feel justified in repaying with a bit of merit. What is wrong is to imply merit is an indication of a posts value or rather having high merit qualifies you as automatically a better post than those with less merit. Merit is helping stop lots of negative behaviour and is fun. Therefore a positive thing. (3) Infinixhot1996 : he ws the first to help me (the post originator) clear up the role of a moderator. I found this valuable and appreciated the clarification. So I'd say he's damn close to merit worth regardless of the other posters echoing the same. The duty of moderators on each"board" is to clean up that board/section and try and keep it as sane as possible,through deleting low content and spam posts or topics It's not their duty to hand out merits,thats not to say they dont/do,as a matter of fact it's not anyone's duty to hand out Smerits except probably the merit sources which to an extent is their duty, and they'll only do so to worthy posts. With or without merits,or merit giving mods or members,that definitely shouldn't deter you from coming up with the quality stuff you claim you want to, merit is just an addition,as our major purpose here is to discuss(sensibly through quality topics) Be careful of the section you'll post your topic,otherwise it definitely may not even merits but get reported for being a spamfest (3) Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. You keep posting this as if it's a bad thing :P Quality posts deserve Merit, and the same posters have sMerit to give. It makes perfect sense that a large share of all merit goes around in a small number of users.I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification. What's your take LoyceV? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 08, 2018, 05:52:16 PM ..... Thank you LoyceV. I've only three so far. I wasn't quite sure if you meant any other threads in the "meta" forum. I'll go with this specific topic. So far, I would give merit tp 2 posts for sure, and a solid maybe on the third.I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification. The thread stays a lot more compact if you post links to the posts instead of quoting the full posts. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 08, 2018, 05:59:54 PM cryptohunter : firstly he gives good quality information that is not readily obvious. Except the numbers are off by orders of magnitude. That's the opposite of quality, especially considering that the whole subsequent argument is built on those wrong numbers. There are ~25k users (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3078328.msg48531604#msg48531604) who received merits. So "top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them" would mean that the top 5 merit receivers (theymos, satoshi, LoyceV, hilariousetc, Last of the V8s (https://bpip.org/)) sent 50% of their merits between them. There is plenty of data on the Meta board (threads by DdmrDdmr, LoyceV, Piggy just to mention a few) to prove that false. Just poking around on BPIP (https://bpip.org/) can show you that e.g. satoshi is hoarding all his merits and not sending to anyone. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 08, 2018, 06:12:48 PM Except the numbers are off by orders of magnitude. That's the opposite of quality, especially considering that the whole subsequent argument is built on those wrong numbers. Cryptohunter meant 0.02% of all users, instead of 0.02% of all merit receivers. Ignoring the fact that 99% of all users didn't receive any merit because they don't deserve it makes it look like Merit is much more elite than it really is.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: DdmrDdmr on December 08, 2018, 06:35:13 PM <…> Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time.<…> I think the figure is really the top 2% of merit receivers. If I’m right I calculated some data some weeks ago where I stated:Quote from: DdmrDdmr link=topic=5066315.msg47803125#msg47803125 <…>I’ve continued scaling the Top X Merited for the following groups: The top 500 had an inner merit sending pattern of 50,61%. There are currently 25.008 merited forum members, so that makes the top 500 merited 2% of the total merited users. In my opinion, it is rather natural for the best posters to merit the other best posters quite often, whilst keeping an eye out for posts on any other rank or segment (most of those top 500 have merited many other people outside the top 500, just not in the same amounts or frequency – which is also natural I’d say).Top 200 -> 43,29% received merit from Top 200. Top 500 -> 50,61% received merit from Top 500. Top 1000 -> 56,62% received merit from Top 1000. Top 5000 -> 69,44% received merit from Top 5000.<...> <…> the top 5 merit receivers (theymos, satoshi, LoyceV, hilariousetc, Last of the V8s (https://bpip.org/)) <…> BPIP seems to have me on it’s ignore list. I’m right in between @LoyceV and @hilariousetc really …Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 08, 2018, 06:41:01 PM BPIP seems to have me on it’s ignore list. I’m right in between @LoyceV and @hilariousetc really … You're right, the list on the front page is wrong. This one is correct: https://bpip.org/report.aspx?r=mostmerited Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 07:40:55 PM <…> Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time.<…> I think the figure is really the top 2% of merit receivers. If I’m right I calculated some data some weeks ago where I stated:Quote from: DdmrDdmr link=topic=5066315.msg47803125#msg47803125 <…>I’ve continued scaling the Top X Merited for the following groups: The top 500 had an inner merit sending pattern of 50,61%. There are currently 25.008 merited forum members, so that makes the top 500 merited 2% of the total merited users. In my opinion, it is rather natural for the best posters to merit the other best posters quite often, whilst keeping an eye out for posts on any other rank or segment (most of those top 500 have merited many other people outside the top 500, just not in the same amounts or frequency – which is also natural I’d say).Top 200 -> 43,29% received merit from Top 200. Top 500 -> 50,61% received merit from Top 500. Top 1000 -> 56,62% received merit from Top 1000. Top 5000 -> 69,44% received merit from Top 5000.<...> <…> the top 5 merit receivers (theymos, satoshi, LoyceV, hilariousetc, Last of the V8s (https://bpip.org/)) <…> BPIP seems to have me on it’s ignore list. I’m right in between @LoyceV and @hilariousetc really …I am not sure about this but 200 from let's say 150k active users as a percentage is under 2% right? is it not 0.13% that's posted in the last month i think not since merit was introduced that would be far greater so this is being more than fair. There is no way that if you remove the merit from the top 200 that comes from ONLY the top 300 (out of 150,000 lets not use the 2 million members) So to if you leave out the top 0.13% of inner circle meriting and those merits from a tiny subsection of posters on the meta board it is natural that their merit scores plummet up to 95%? Not sure how natural that is. Never pay attention to suchmoon he simply does not abide by any kind of logical argument. There are 150k posters in I believe in the last month. Just because such moon claims they are not valid to be considered for merit because they have not had any merit he leaves them out of his calculation. That is quite a crazy thing to say. The link I posted is 100% valid. The facts There are 2 million registered members There are 150 posters in the last month 0.13% of that 150k circle 50% of their merits and have huge merit scores some as many as 1200 merits received. Take merit that is being circled inside that 0.13% away and take also merit given on the meta board which is super concentrated by these 0.13% and their ass kissers and you will see for sure that most of them lose min 50% with most losing over 80% heading to 95%. Simple observable fact. If they are out by a couple of % does not spoil the message that I present. Anyone believing that 0.13% of posters spiraling away higher and higher in merit (gained from each other) who would lose 95% of their merits if that was not included along with their fav hang out meta is natural distribution of merit based upon objective analysis of the value of a post compared to others is wrong. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 08, 2018, 08:13:35 PM There is no way that if you remove the merit from the top 200 that comes from ONLY the top 300 (out of 150,000 lets not use the 2 million members) It seems like you don't want to understand the reality of this forum: most users are spammers, and most users will never earn or deserve even a single merit. Even worse: I'm pretty sure most of those spammers own many accounts.Have a look at patrol (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=recent;patrol): it will give you a good impression of how useless most posts are. To debunk your theory about a big circle of merit friends: check how many different users received Merit from the top senders: Total number of users who gave away 1 or more sMerit: 18848 Most of those users try really hard to send merit to as many different users as possible, but they need to deserve it first.Sample Code: 1. 7762 Merit sent by suchmoon (#234771) to 838 unique users in 2189 transactions Did you know that half of the users you've send most Merit to (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=cryptohunter) are in the top200 Merit receivers? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 08:33:18 PM There is no way that if you remove the merit from the top 200 that comes from ONLY the top 300 (out of 150,000 lets not use the 2 million members) It seems like you don't want to understand the reality of this forum: most users are spammers, and most users will never earn or deserve even a single merit. Even worse: I'm pretty sure most of those spammers own many accounts.Have a look at patrol (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=recent;patrol): it will give you a good impression of how useless most posts are. To debunk your theory about a big circle of merit friends: check how many different users received Merit from the top senders: Total number of users who gave away 1 or more sMerit: 18848 Most of those users try really hard to send merit to as many different users as possible, but they need to deserve it first.Sample Code: 1. 7762 Merit sent by suchmoon (#234771) to 838 unique users in 2189 transactions Did you know that half of the users you've send most Merit to (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=cryptohunter) are in the top200 Merit receivers? I don't have theory. I am simply stating the statistics. For example provide me this factual information. Your current received merit score minus merit from the top 300 and any merit awarded in the meta section. Please provide me the current received merit and the merit you would have after making the adjustments?? Now to clear this up. How many times can I say that does not mean you did not deserve the 80% or greater that will vanish from your score? I have said before in posts that I find myself awarding top merit holders more than anyone else because 1. it is hard to find posts in amongst the sea of junk to award merit 2. people in meta since I have been here are helpful at providing stats I ask for and some say things I agree with. This is what i notice merit is used for. People upset at not getting more merit need not be upset thinking their posts are not being recognised for being great quality because that is unlikely on most boards due to how hard it would be to find them. The point is many are recognising they can make great posts on other boards and not get anywhere near the merit they should get based on the level of post you would need to make here in the meta section if you were one of the inner circle. This is true totally. I have said this is not a big deal because merit stops lots of negative behaviour and is a nice way to award others who do things you ask or for you to tip your hat to others that express views you share. People are wrongly believing that merit = valuable objective post and further more people are wrongly suggesting their high merit scores mean their posts are more valuable or hold more weight that low merit score holders. This is not the case. The merit system is fine we just have to explain to people who wonder why they are not getting much merit for good posts it is not because their posts are not good it is due to other factors. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 08, 2018, 08:43:44 PM For example provide me this factual information. All Merit data is publicly available, you're free to do this (I'm going to watch a movie :P ).Your current received merit score minus merit from the top 300 and any merit awarded in the meta section. Please provide me the current received merit and the merit you would have after making the adjustments?? But more importantly: why would it matter how much came from other users with good posts? It would be much more surprising if most of my Merit came from spammers! Quote 2. people in meta since I have been here are helpful at providing stats I ask for and some say things I agree with. I could probably provide it, just not now :P And since "my" webhosting is currently unavailable, I can't provide you the latest version of full raw Merit data (theymos only provides the last 120 days).Quote The point is many are recognising they can make great posts on other boards and not get anywhere near the merit they should get based on the level of post you would need to make here in the meta section if you were one of the inner circle. You mean the "inner circle" of people who aren't spammers and make decent posts? Using the term "inner circle" makes it sound as if that's a bad thing.This is true totally. Quote I have said this is not a big deal because merit stops lots of negative behaviour and is a nice way to award others who do things you ask or for you to tip your hat to others that express views you share. And yet, you keep bringing it up. I'm still not sure what you're trying to prove though.Quote People are wrongly believing that merit = valuable objective post and further more people are wrongly suggesting their high merit scores mean their posts are more valuable or hold more weight that low merit score holders. This is not the case. I can't help what people believe. I consider Merit as: "this post is worth reading", or in some cases even: "at least it's not spam". Very good posts receive more Merit, and in the end it's the total from all users that counts.Quote The merit system is fine we just have to explain to people who wonder why they are not getting much merit for good posts it is not because their posts are not good it is due to other factors. Lol, I've almost exclusively seen shitposters wonder why they don't get Merit, not good posters.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 09:27:09 PM All Merit data is publicly available, you're free to do this (I'm going to watch a movie Tongue ).
But more importantly: why would it matter how much came from other users with good posts? It would be much more surprising if most of my Merit came from spammers! Don't be shy I am not saying the FACT you will notice over 80% of your merit will vanish is a bad thing. I am just trying to show you this is not opinion this is simply fact. You're a stats guy this will not be hard for you to provide. It matters because 1/ their high merit does NOT mean they are good posters (first incorrect assumptioin) 2 why would only the top 0.013% of merit holders in meta find that you need so much merit? You mean the "inner circle" of people who aren't spammers and make decent posts? Using the term "inner circle" makes it sound as if that's a bad thing. 2 incorrect assumptions people outside of the insider merit club are spammers and that the inner circle make decent posts (compared to what) And yet, you keep bringing it up. I'm still not sure what you're trying to prove though. I am proving nothing the stats are there they speak for themselves. I'll await your merit score once the merit insiders club and their fav sub board are removed. The reluctance to provide your stats is because you think that losing 80 percent plus is a bad thing or maybe your server is down who knows. It is not a bad thing it simply demonstrates what I have been saying. Merit is fun it is useful it does not mean you make great objective and insightful posts and those with less merit or zero merit are probably actually capable of making far more objectively insightful and deeper posts but finding them is the issue. The point is clear since I have actually stated it several times but just once more.... merit is worth keeping here it stops a lot of negative behaviour and is fun to give out to your friends and to those you align your views with. Fair enough but stop conflating high merit = good poster low merit = shit poster. It is simply not that case. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 08, 2018, 09:45:20 PM The point is clear since I have actually stated it several times but just once more.... merit is worth keeping here it stops a lot of negative behaviour and is fun to give out to your friends and to those you align your views with. Fair enough but stop conflating high merit = good poster low merit = shit poster. It is simply not that case. I don't have 800 "friends". And if you think that's what merits are for then you're the problem, not the merit system. Go ahead, find those brilliant unmerited posts and let us know. I'm sure merits will rain on them. Until then it's safe to assume that the system works as intended and 100+ merit sources and 100s of other merit senders provide a decent coverage for the forum. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: DdmrDdmr on December 08, 2018, 09:45:31 PM <…> Well you were talking about the percentage of merit receivers when you mentioned the 0,02% figure, so the base in that context is of 25.008 forum members (all merit receivers) and not 150K. In addition, 500 people is closer to the 50% ratio, not 200. Regardless, coming across decent posts is not trivial, and one tends to favour certain sections and posters, often because the content they provide is way better, and easier to read in a linear manner. In an interval of around a month, 53.858 posters have created 796.538 posts. 309K of those posts were created by nearly 37K Newbies. Now the content produced by those Newbies is nowhere comparable to that produced by the top 200/500 posters. I’ve just gone through the posts of the list of top 25 posters of the month, that are Newbies or Jr. Members, and all their posts are social reports and spam one-liners. If I were to do the same with the top 200/500 merited users, the difference in content is going to be crystal clear. Anyhow, if there is an issue overall in my opinion, it’s that ranking speed in general is extremely slow now for the immense majority, even if they are merited. Heroes for example must exasperate at getting a few merits every now and then needing 500 additional merits to reach their next rank. Heroes received an average of 1,96 merits per poster last month. From Hero to Legendary takes 255 months at that rate (21 years). The issue is not that the best posters get lots of merits, but rather that it is difficult to rank (for those that wish to rank) at a decent enough pace, preferably in the span of their lifetime. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 09:59:36 PM The point is clear since I have actually stated it several times but just once more.... merit is worth keeping here it stops a lot of negative behaviour and is fun to give out to your friends and to those you align your views with. Fair enough but stop conflating high merit = good poster low merit = shit poster. It is simply not that case. I don't have 800 "friends". And if you think that's what merits are for then you're the problem, not the merit system. Go ahead, find those brilliant unmerited posts and let us know. I'm sure merits will rain on them. Until then it's safe to assume that the system works as intended and 100+ merit sources and 100s of other merit senders provide a decent coverage for the forum. The very notion you have even 0.8 of a real "friend" is ludicrous... being part of a group in meta all awarding each other for making some kind of post is fair enough to me if we are honest about it though. I mean the stats don't lie What is your merit score now and what would it be if we removed what I had suggested .... remove any from the other top 300 and remove all merit from meta? you score does not seem to be as badly effected as I had expected. I will look into this futher. How many other accounts do you own? The rest of your post has no real effect on the stats presented. I agree the merit system works okay but we need to be clear that merit score is not a measure of post quality. People need not wonder why their " good posts" are not getting merit if they are outside of the clique predominantly lurking on meta. That is fine by me. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 08, 2018, 10:04:25 PM I agree the merit system works okay but we need to be clear that merit score is not a measure of post quality We'll be clear on that once you present facts. Merely saying that 0.02% or 2% or 0.13% or 0.013% of users (or whatever it is) send merits to each other not because their posts are good but because they're "friends" doesn't make it so. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 10:16:16 PM I agree the merit system works okay but we need to be clear that merit score is not a measure of post quality We'll be clear on that once you present facts. Merely saying that you think 0.02% or 0.13% or 0.013% of users (or whatever it is) send merits to each other not because their posts are good but because they're "friends" doesn't make it so. What is your merit score once we remove the "opinion" of only the 0.13% of posters and all merit/meta sub board awards? I would expect you too are in for another 80% hair cut? What if only the top 0.13% whilst on meta are able to recognise what a great poster you are? This is not aimed at you specifically but since you can't resist stalking me I am as always happy to engage you. You I have admitted are useful and probably can make some good points now and then but you are quite an aggressive person and can be annoying. I say the onus is on you to provide me with evidence because if you are part of a group that claims their high merit score means they are great posters then you are gaining from this assumption you claim is correct. So you prove it. The stats combined with simple probability suggest you are wrong. Unless you really believe that the 0.13% are the only ones able to discern what a good post is lol. I am not even saying some top merit earners are not capable of making good posts ... just there is no strict correlation at all. Please stop finding any way you can to chat me up and just accept merit is fun, merit is useful... the higher the merit score of the individual does not correlate with post quality. There are many great posts that are not getting any merit here and if they all got the optimal merit they deserve on some strict criteria of usefulness or depth the top merit scorers would not be who they are now except of course for those who are not moving at all on either sides of the stats chart provided. @dmrdmr Well you were talking about the percentage of merit receivers when you mentioned the 0,02% figure, so the base in that context is of 25.008 forum members (all merit receivers) and not 150K. In addition, 500 people is closer to the 50% ratio, not 200. looking at my link i can see most have 50% reduction or far more, this stat is being skewed by theymos and satoshi who are obviously beyond the intended scope of this debate and rightly so... take them out and it looks far far worse for the top 200... this is without meta board merit removed. I think you are actually a very smart and useful poster due to your knowledge of stats and effort put in to provide them. However I notice your merit score is obliterated once run through my filter and if you took meta merits away you would likely be near zero merit. Does that make you a bad poster or a beneficiary of scheming merit circles - NO that is not my point at all. It is simply that you can not say high merit = good poster low merit = poor poster. It simply does not work like that. I have no idea why people are trying to fight against that obvious conclusion. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Dig Bicks on December 08, 2018, 11:06:30 PM No it's not a problem only fuckers that care about merit are the shitposters spamming the forum or perhaps the people that see merits as some type of video game competition.
Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on December 08, 2018, 11:19:18 PM We'll be clear on that once you present facts. Merely saying that 0.02% or 2% or 0.13% or 0.013% of users (or whatever it is) send merits to each other not because their posts are good but because they're "friends" doesn't make it so. Agreed.I spent about 20 minutes trawling the Economics section, looking for low-ranked members to give merits to. I ended up reporting more posts as being spam or shitposts than I gave merits to. I would absolutely love to help Jr. Members, Members, Newbies, etc., rank up but I just can't find any of them making posts that make sense or that add anything to the discussion at hand. It's very frustrating. Also, as a merit source and one of the most generous merit-givers on the forum (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat), I'd love to know who my "friends" are and who I'm circle-jerking around with. If such people exist, I'm unaware of them. I have high standards for handing out merits, and it just so happens that some (maybe even most)of the most interesting posts, the ones I've merited, have been made by senior members. It's not because I'm in some leather-chair, cigar-smoking, mustache-twirling, brandy-swilling good 'ol boys' club where we've made an agreement to circulate merits only amongst ourselves. Christ, look at who I've given merits to. There's a lot of lower-ranked members and there's a wide variety of members overall. No it's not a problem only fuckers that care about merit are the shitposters spamming the forum or perhaps the people that see merits as some type of video game competition. Stop being a scunt.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 08, 2018, 11:56:00 PM We'll be clear on that once you present facts. Merely saying that 0.02% or 2% or 0.13% or 0.013% of users (or whatever it is) send merits to each other not because their posts are good but because they're "friends" doesn't make it so. Agreed.I spent about 20 minutes trawling the Economics section, looking for low-ranked members to give merits to. I ended up reporting more posts as being spam or shitposts than I gave merits to. I would absolutely love to help Jr. Members, Members, Newbies, etc., rank up but I just can't find any of them making posts that make sense or that add anything to the discussion at hand. It's very frustrating. Also, as a merit source and one of the most generous merit-givers on the forum (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat), I'd love to know who my "friends" are and who I'm circle-jerking around with. If such people exist, I'm unaware of them. I have high standards for handing out merits, and it just so happens that some (maybe even most)of the most interesting posts, the ones I've merited, have been made by senior members. It's not because I'm in some leather-chair, cigar-smoking, mustache-twirling, brandy-swilling good 'ol boys' club where we've made an agreement to circulate merits only amongst ourselves. Christ, look at who I've given merits to. There's a lot of lower-ranked members and there's a wide variety of members overall. No it's not a problem only fuckers that care about merit are the shitposters spamming the forum or perhaps the people that see merits as some type of video game competition. Stop being a scunt.There is no point agreeing with a straw man and something that flies in the face of the stats provided. 1. saying merit is not correlated strongly to post quality is not the same as saying it is only given to freinds for crap posts. there are many factors (not all bad and many understandable) that are leading to merit cycling in the top 0.13% a huge amount if you take out theymos and satoshi. I mean if you only believe the 0.13 % opinion counts then that is fine. However, even if you are fair as you can be (considering you have alt boards on ignore which is fair enough considering how they are) but even if you make an effort as far as you can reasonably then your individual experience is not a drip in the ocean compared to the what the stats are indicating. Face it removing the top 0.13% merits given out and removing merit given on only the meta board reduces most high merit accounts by on average 80% or even greater. This is like saying the 0.13% are only high merit accounts in the minds of 0.13% of the active posters here? This is fair enough but to then say high merit = higher quality poster than a lower merit account is way way off. The strange thing that we can freely observe here and I don't mean to be seen to picking on anyone is the persons here in this thread defending this are the persons that would be the VERY MOST effected by this being highlighted in terms of having their merit reduced in a HUGE way. I mean again I notice your account gets a huge huge hair cut without even taking meta out of the equation. Does not mean you are not a good poster so don't worry about this. I would say though that those that are least effected by this filtering would have a more balanced appreciation of their posts. All of the above just means..... Just accept that merit is fun, it is effective in reducing negative behaviour but don't be tempted to draw any other conclusions based on merit. Some huge merit score holders could be good posters and many zero merit posters are quite capable of making just as good if not better posts. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: acarli on December 09, 2018, 12:32:57 AM Yup, looks like threw coal on the fire. my bad.
The little smerit I have given out does seem to be the higher members. Just seems like the engagement and quality is higher. @suchmoon After this thread, I'm keenly aware:
@LoyceV I'll keep my eye out. I thought for sure that those would meet minimum expectations. Thank you. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 12:37:34 AM What is your merit score once we remove the "opinion" of only the 0.13% of posters and all merit/meta sub board awards? I would expect you too are in for another 80% hair cut? What if only the top 0.13% whilst on meta are able to recognise what a great poster you are? This is not aimed at you specifically but since you can't resist stalking me I am as always happy to engage you. You I have admitted are useful and probably can make some good points now and then but you are quite an aggressive person and can be annoying. I say the onus is on you to provide me with evidence because if you are part of a group that claims their high merit score means they are great posters then you are gaining from this assumption you claim is correct. So you prove it. The stats combined with simple probability suggest you are wrong. Unless you really believe that the 0.13% are the only ones able to discern what a good post is lol. You're the one making these claims so it's really up to you to support them. There is tons of data available. I know how I send the merits and it's not even close to what you're describing. It sounds like you have a problem with some of the top recipients or perhaps with the fact that you're not among them so you're trying to weave a narrative that would diminish the purpose of the merit system. However the main purpose of the merit system remains to highlight good posts. Not for ranking up, not for fun, not for "friends" or "likes". Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 12:50:30 AM What is your merit score once we remove the "opinion" of only the 0.13% of posters and all merit/meta sub board awards? I would expect you too are in for another 80% hair cut? What if only the top 0.13% whilst on meta are able to recognise what a great poster you are? This is not aimed at you specifically but since you can't resist stalking me I am as always happy to engage you. You I have admitted are useful and probably can make some good points now and then but you are quite an aggressive person and can be annoying. I say the onus is on you to provide me with evidence because if you are part of a group that claims their high merit score means they are great posters then you are gaining from this assumption you claim is correct. So you prove it. The stats combined with simple probability suggest you are wrong. Unless you really believe that the 0.13% are the only ones able to discern what a good post is lol. You're the one making these claims so it's really up to you to support them. There is tons of data available. I know how I send the merits and it's not even close to what you're describing. It sounds like you have a problem with some of the top recipients or perhaps with the fact that you're not among them so you're trying to weave a narrative that would diminish the purpose of the merit system. However the main purpose of the merit system remains to highlight good posts. Not for ranking up, not for fun, not for "friends" or "likes". Imagine that all the top 200 merit holders tell me they are not sending as the stats claim? perhaps the stats are wrong? Over 50% of all merit given by the top 0.13% is to others in that group. More if you take out satoshi and theymos. I am not making claims I am describing data. If you take out meta board merit then that makes it look worse. I have no need for merit since it at legend rank you do not require it. In theory do you need rank because only the ivory tower is off limits to juniors. I don't think diverting or even questioning my motive can alter the observable stats that are there in black and white so is irrelevant to this discussion. Let's stick to sensible analysis of the stats. Can you describe the narrative I am weaving that would diminish the purpose of this merit system? Anyway for sure merit system works fine as I have said no need to change. I see no need to discuss further since it seem repetitive now people can read the stats and think for themselves. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 01:20:37 AM Imagine that all the top 200 merit holders tell me they are not sending as the stats claim? perhaps the stats are wrong? Over 50% of all merit given by the top 0.13% is to others in that group. More if you take out satoshi and theymos. I am not making claims I am describing data. If you take out meta board merit then that makes it look worse. You're making claims not supported by the data you're quoting. The data (even if you take arbitrary parts out of it) doesn't say that there are unmerited high-quality posts/users as you're claiming here: many zero merit posters are quite capable of making just as good if not better posts. Can you describe the narrative I am weaving that would diminish the purpose of this merit system? The purpose of the merit is system is not fun to give out to your friends and to those you align your views with. but to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 01:41:35 AM Imagine that all the top 200 merit holders tell me they are not sending as the stats claim? perhaps the stats are wrong? Over 50% of all merit given by the top 0.13% is to others in that group. More if you take out satoshi and theymos. I am not making claims I am describing data. If you take out meta board merit then that makes it look worse. You're making claims not supported by the data you're quoting. The data (even if you take arbitrary parts out of it) doesn't say that there are unmerited high-quality posts/users as you're claiming here: many zero merit posters are quite capable of making just as good if not better posts. This is true actually true. Let me reverse this question then. Are you telling me you believe what I have stated is incorrect. Ignore what the stats reveal on that part. I was making an assumption on that part. Yes or no out of the remaining 99.87% of the board can some of them make as good or better posts than those in the 0.13%? I mean is it likely or not? Can you describe the narrative I am weaving that would diminish the purpose of this merit system? The purpose of the merit is system is not fun to give out to your friends and to those you align your views with. but to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with. That was the intent but since there is no criteria it is impossible to be objective against all other posts. There would need be criteria, that one could objectively measure against. I can clearly notice many of the 0.13 merit posts of others of that circle that are based upon clearly incorrect assumptions (the power of those observations is weak statistically but that is likely the thin edge of the wedge) like i said others can look at what top merit holders are getting merit from and make their own conclusions The concentration on a sub board like meta is also a huge factor. A board a tiny percentage post on. I mean minute. I am not saying what the intended purpose was. Still I stick with my conclusion it is working far better than with no merit system so no need to change it. You said it is not meant to be related to rank but rank does depend on it right? I mean surely you can not argue only 0.13% deserve such a concentration if some AI could measure all posts against objective criteria. There are many factors that are easy to understand and even empathise with why the concentration is happening and where. I started in this thread by saying it was the fault of the mass of spammers and bots why good posts elsewhere do not attain merit so easily as perhaps they should. I stick to that. I am not actually blaming the top merit holders am I? there is only so much time they can spend trawling crap looking for the odd gems. That does not mean they are not there. It also certainly means there is no claim to high merit high quality poster low merit low quality poster. Does not work like that. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 02:30:37 AM This is true actually true. Let me reverse this question then. Are you telling me you believe what I have stated is incorrect. Ignore what the stats reveal on that part. I was making an assumption on that part. Yes or no out of the remaining 99.87% of the board can some of them make as good or better posts than those in the 0.13%? I mean is it likely or not? Of course it's incorrect, even worse - you're using fallacious arguments that make you either dishonest or stupid. There are 25k recipients and the list is growing. In the long run good posters will rise to the top. You're making it sound as if there are no other merits outside of the 0.13% but even those 200 users are spending most of their merits outside of that "group" (https://i.snag.gy/Zoq2B7.jpg). The data you're quoting doesn't support or even contradicts your claims, despite your valiant attempts to mangle it to fit your narrative or to ignore it when it doesn't. At this point even anecdotal evidence would server you better than your straw people, e.g. if you could show some of those zero-merit high-quality That was the intent but since there is no criteria it is impossible to be objective against all other posts. There would need be criteria, that one could objectively measure against. I can clearly notice many of the 0.13 merit posts of others of that circle that are based upon clearly incorrect assumptions (the power of those observations is weak statistically but that is likely the thin edge of the wedge) like i said others can look at what top merit holders are getting merit from and make their own conclusions So there is no criteria but you can clearly notice posts not meeting that non-existent criteria? At any rate, that doesn't justify mangling the purpose of the merit system as being for "fun" and "friends". I'd suggest that we should stick to what our benevolent dictator prescribed, which is to use merits not for "fun" or "friends" but for good posts. You said it is not meant to be related to rank but rank does depend on it right? Yes, that's a bonus feature. The main purpose is still to highlight good posts. there is only so much time they can spend trawling crap looking for the odd gems. That does not mean they are not there. It also certainly means there is no claim to high merit high quality poster low merit low quality poster. Does not work like that. Surely these hypothetical good posters are smart enough to figure out how to post outside of spam megathreads and bounties. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 02:37:09 AM This is true actually true. Let me reverse this question then. Are you telling me you believe what I have stated is incorrect. Ignore what the stats reveal on that part. I was making an assumption on that part. Yes or no out of the remaining 99.87% of the board can some of them make as good or better posts than those in the 0.13%? I mean is it likely or not? Of course it's incorrect, even worse - you're using fallacious arguments that make you either dishonest or stupid. There are 25k recipients and the list is growing. In the long run good posters will rise to the top. You're making it sound as if there are no other merits outside of the 0.13% but even those 200 users are spending most of their merits outside of that "group" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081670.msg48538836#msg48538836). The data you're quoting doesn't support or even contradicts your claims, despite your valiant attempts to mangle it to fit your narrative or to ignore it when it doesn't. At this point even anecdotal evidence would server you better than your straw people, e.g. if you could show some of those zero-merit high-quality I don't think you understand the data from what you are saying. Try to remain civil, your aggressive tone does not increase the validity of your arguement. There is over 50% received from others within the top 0.13% once you take out theymos and satoshi. It seems also you have ignored my question. Revist my post and answer it. Try to stop diverting clear analysis of observable fact to a motive based subjective fantasy. ddmrddmr is not including all posters he seems to think that we should not include the other 125k posters because they are not eligible to receive merit? or have opinion on what a good post is. The fact you can claim that any poster even the greatest here will rise to the top posting in alt discussion is ludicrous in light of the stats. Please think more before replying and actually answer my questions also if you want a proper discussion. You tend to be able to remain civil until you get asked something you dont like to answer. You should change this. That was the intent but since there is no criteria it is impossible to be objective against all other posts. There would need be criteria, that one could objectively measure against. I can clearly notice many of the 0.13 merit posts of others of that circle that are based upon clearly incorrect assumptions (the power of those observations is weak statistically but that is likely the thin edge of the wedge) like i said others can look at what top merit holders are getting merit from and make their own conclusions So there is no criteria but you can clearly notice posts not meeting that non-existent criteria? At any rate, that doesn't justify mangling the purpose of the merit system as being for "fun" and "friends". I'd suggest that we should stick to what our benevolent dictator prescribed, which is to use merits not for "fun" or "friends" but for good posts. Well that makes no sense sorry. It obviously cant meet criteria which does not exist to make objective decisions. You said it is not meant to be related to rank but rank does depend on it right? Yes, that's a bonus feature. The main purpose is still to highlight good posts. How do you know what it's main purpose was. I mean it was not invented until all the spammers turned up so linking it to rank since rank determines account selling value and sig spam reward then it could be more than a bonus. Please speed up your replies it should not take this long to construct a simple honest answer. Notice I reply in a sensible fashion in a couple of minutes and try not ignore questions that don't suit your narrative . Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceMobile on December 09, 2018, 06:23:21 AM . What if I tell you trust is even worse than merit? The opinion of less than 0.01% of all users counts! If you calculate trust without a selected 200 users, there is nobody with any green trust left! By your (flawed) logic this is very unfair to all the users would need green trust.I mean if you only believe the 0.13 % opinion counts then that is fine. You've been searching for a non-exciting problem since I first saw you in Meta, trying to use statistical data in a strongly biased way to get the results you want. Please use proper quote tags, it's much easier to read. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 06:49:57 AM How do you know what it's main purpose was. I mean it was not invented until all the spammers turned up so linking it to rank since rank determines account selling value and sig spam reward then it could be more than a bonus. Because we're not supposed to send merits to rank users up, or for any other purpose. We're supposed to send merits for good posts. Which may help users to rank up if they consistently create good posts, making the rank-up an effect/consequence/result of good posts. It's really not a complicated concept. You're just deliberately making a mockery of it with your "fun and friends" sham. Please speed up your replies it should not take this long to construct a simple honest answer. Notice I reply in a sensible fashion in a couple of minutes and try not ignore questions that don't suit your narrative . Please reduce your cocaine intake or fuck off to twitter if this is too slow for you. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 08:48:22 AM How do you know what it's main purpose was. I mean it was not invented until all the spammers turned up so linking it to rank since rank determines account selling value and sig spam reward then it could be more than a bonus. Because we're not supposed to send merits to rank users up, or for any other purpose. We're supposed to send merits for good posts. Which may help users to rank up if they consistently create good posts, making the rank-up an effect/consequence/result of good posts. It's really not a complicated concept. You're just deliberately making a mockery of it with your "fun and friends" sham. Please speed up your replies it should not take this long to construct a simple honest answer. Notice I reply in a sensible fashion in a couple of minutes and try not ignore questions that don't suit your narrative . Please reduce your cocaine intake or fuck off to twitter if this is too slow for you. LOL. Please don't waste my time engaging me in future you simply can not hold a sensible nor logical debate. You avoid my questions that reveal your posts to be blathering nonsense based upon ludicrous and highly improbable fantasy. Yesterday "most" pre merit legends are spammers. Today it is unthinkable some of the 99.87 percent of this board are capable of making posts as good or better than the 0.13 percent. I can't wait for tomorrow. What will you say next. I simply said if it takes you this long to avoid answering my questions then do not keep stalking me and replying to my posts. I am assisting you to make sense of the world around you and you swear and curse at me for my trouble. I am almost considering not replying to any of your PM's in future. @loyce again? "even worse than merit" - your words not mine. I say it works fine as it is so long as you don't seriously claim in correlates to posting quality. what is your merit score again once you remove the inner circle votes and meta club merits? please answer or just get back to dumb and dumber and stop with your unsubstantiated fantasies. Why avoid my question and reply with unrelated jibberish about trust. . I am not addressing the trust system here. Start another thread on that if you wish. You are unable to accept what is there in black and white. Using stats in a biased way = presenting data Present the flawed logic you are claiming exists?? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 09, 2018, 10:03:00 AM @loyce second account how long until another big bucks sig gets attached to it? Try to stay on topic.Quote what is your merit score again once you remove the inner circle votes and meta club merits? please answer I don't really feel like spending a few hours digging up data, so that you can abuse it to support your claim that Merit from the top200 Merit receivers is some how worth less than Merit from others. As I said before, you're free to dig it up yourself. Or if you're not into that, you can review all my Merited posts (356 (and 2 deleted)) and list the ones that you think don't deserve Merit.Please come up with some new, solid and complete data instead of asking me to provide data that in my opinion has no value. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 02:28:39 PM @loyce second account how long until another big bucks sig gets attached to it? Try to stay on topic.Quote what is your merit score again once you remove the inner circle votes and meta club merits? please answer I don't really feel like spending a few hours digging up data, so that you can abuse it to support your claim that Merit from the top200 Merit receivers is some how worth less than Merit from others. As I said before, you're free to dig it up yourself. Or if you're not into that, you can review all my Merited posts (356 (and 2 deleted)) and list the ones that you think don't deserve Merit.Please come up with some new, solid and complete data instead of asking me to provide data that in my opinion has no value. Roughly translated 1. i don't want to see my earned merit score revealed to be 90% less after it is demonstrated my pals merit and meta club merits removed. 2. I can't back up my statement that you are using biased data so i'll ignore the question 3. I can't back up my claim of there being flawed logic so i'll skip that bit too. 4. I just say things without thinking and when called on them I have no explanation or reasoning that will stand up to scrutiny. thanks for your help loyce. Now when you are finished trying to refute and deflect what simple raw data demonstrates then you can carry on being net positive to the board which i have not questioned. My sole point is that high merit does not equal high value poster and low merit does not equal low value poster. It really is not something you can use to say either of those two things. This is just clearly not what you can accept, but let it sink in and stop worrying about it because nothing is going to change (because there is no need of changing it merit system is working well) and you can have even more merit soon. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: sirazimuth on December 09, 2018, 02:48:25 PM ~merited post~.... ... in the spam of their lifetime. my life story in a nutshell... Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: DdmrDdmr on December 09, 2018, 03:00:22 PM <...> Well, that was a lapsus plumae that actually came out quite nice, but purely unintentional. I’ve reverted it to "span" which was my initial intent (no matter how many times one re-reads before posting, surprises can still often be found ...).Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 03:51:42 PM Today it is unthinkable some of the 99.87 percent of this board are capable of making posts as good or better than the 0.13 percent. I can't wait for tomorrow. What will you say next. Well, considering that I never said the above it's probably going to be something new that you'll make up. Here is what I did say on the subject of 99.87%: In the long run good posters will rise to the top. You're making it sound as if there are no other merits outside of the 0.13% but even those 200 users are spending most of their merits outside of that "group" (https://i.snag.gy/Zoq2B7.jpg). So go ahead and post some examples of those users "capable of making posts as good or better" so that we could merit them. I am almost considering not replying to any of your PM's in future. That's gonna be easy. I never sent you any PMs nor am I planning to. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 04:02:07 PM Today it is unthinkable some of the 99.87 percent of this board are capable of making posts as good or better than the 0.13 percent. I can't wait for tomorrow. What will you say next. Well, considering that I never said the above it's probably going to be something new that you'll make up. Here is what I did say on the subject of 99.87%: Really that's strange https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081670.msg48544710#msg48544710 read that then read back on the post you are replying to and the one previous. Was your account compromised by and you never made these posts? You are going full manic now. Please ensure the correct dose of your meds is being administered to you. Next you will tell me you never said "most" pre merit legends are spammers. Then stuck to this crazy statement even when called on it. All just stuff I make up. I mean between you ignoring questions, swearing and getting angry, and denying you said the things that your account keeps posting it is hard to have a sensible debate. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: bones261 on December 09, 2018, 04:14:32 PM @cryptohunter Instead of bitching about how us merit sources are doing a piss poor job and only meriting people in our clique; please do go out and find some good posters for us to merit. I do my best; however, there is not enough time in the day to read every single post. (I wouldn't even understand the posts in the local boards.) I admit it, I usually stick to boards and threads that happen to be interesting to me. However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve.
Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 04:20:05 PM @cryptohunter Instead of bitching about how us merit sources are doing a piss poor job and only meriting people in our clique; please do go out and find some good posters for us to merit. I do my best; however, there is not enough time in the day to read every single post. (I wouldn't even understand the posts in the local boards.) I admit it, I usually stick to boards and threads that happen to be interesting to me. However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve. Please go back and reread the entire thread before posting nonsense based upon strawmen you are inventing. I mean you may want to start with just my first post in this thread actually the first line. I see you must have missed that (along with the other multiple times i have reiterated that sentiment in different ways so all can understand) No need to change anything about merit as again i have said perhaps 10x it is working well now so long as people don't start creating misleading meanings to their merit scores. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: bones261 on December 09, 2018, 04:42:57 PM @cryptohunter Instead of bitching about how us merit sources are doing a piss poor job and only meriting people in our clique; please do go out and find some good posters for us to merit. I do my best; however, there is not enough time in the day to read every single post. (I wouldn't even understand the posts in the local boards.) I admit it, I usually stick to boards and threads that happen to be interesting to me. However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve. Please go back and reread the entire thread before posting nonsense based upon strawmen you are inventing. I mean you may want to start with just my first post in this thread actually the first line. I see you must have missed that (along with the other multiple times i have reiterated that sentiment in different ways so all can understand) No need to change anything about merit as again i have said perhaps 10x it is working well now so long as people don't start creating misleading meanings to their merit scores. Well, what the OP states and your recommendations are very true. I usually avoid the megathreads, since it has a good deal of trash to sift through. There is one exception. That is the Wall Observer thread. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.0) And it is no secret that people who frequent Wall Observer posters are part of a clique. After all, most of us have hats as an avatar. However, in the mean time, before everything starts to even out, many volunteers can point out all these good posts that are being sorely neglected. I will be happy to merit a nice gem and give people the recognition they justly deserve. edit: Here is another possible solution to the dilemma the op is talking about. (although I doubt it will ever be implemented.): If someone presses on the +merit, but has no smerit to give, then it gives the user the option to "report to merit sources." This would place the post in some kind of database that all of us merit sources would have access to. It would work similar as the "report to moderator" function. There may be a good deal of "bad" reports. However, with 119 merit sources, we can make short work out of it. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 05:21:30 PM @cryptohunter Instead of bitching about how us merit sources are doing a piss poor job and only meriting people in our clique; please do go out and find some good posters for us to merit. I do my best; however, there is not enough time in the day to read every single post. (I wouldn't even understand the posts in the local boards.) I admit it, I usually stick to boards and threads that happen to be interesting to me. However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve. Please go back and reread the entire thread before posting nonsense based upon strawmen you are inventing. I mean you may want to start with just my first post in this thread actually the first line. I see you must have missed that (along with the other multiple times i have reiterated that sentiment in different ways so all can understand) No need to change anything about merit as again i have said perhaps 10x it is working well now so long as people don't start creating misleading meanings to their merit scores. Well, what the OP states and your recommendations are very true. I usually avoid the megathreads, since it has a good deal of trash to sift through. There is one exception. That is the Wall Observer thread. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.0) And it is no secret that people who frequent Wall Observer posters are part of a clique. After all, most of us have hats as an avatar. However, in the mean time, before everything starts to even out, many volunteers can point out all these good posts that are being sorely neglected. I will be happy to merit a nice gem and give people the recognition they justly deserve. edit: Here is another possible solution to the dilemma the op is talking about. (although I doubt it will ever be implemented.): If someone presses on the +merit, but has no smerit to give, then it gives the user the option to "report to merit sources." This would place the post in some kind of database that all of us merit sources would have access to. It would work similar as the "report to moderator" function. There may be a good deal of "bad" reports. However, with 119 merit sources, we can make short work out of it. This is a very reasonable reply. I of course accept many of the top merit holders are net positive and do good work. Your merit giving seems quite reasonable and indicates a person that probably browses the boards he likes to visit and sees a good post and merits it. Fair enough. However when I notice a merit history like this Today at 13:50:34: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: account blocked today over a year old and 1500+ posts Today at 13:50:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What's happening with Bitcoin losing more than 10 per cent of its value? Today at 13:49:32: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What is this forum for? Today at 13:49:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Trust abuse! Injustice! Fake trust by winter! Much butthurt I am! Today at 13:48:33: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Is the new ERA of merit dying again? Today at 13:47:59: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: DT1 list alternation: add me on it Today at 13:47:16: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: I need merit badly . Imagine 28 seconds between naturally browsing the board (not searching for your fav merit buddies at all just per chance your machine accidentally flys from you buddies post to his next one deserving more merit) reading the post (in full context of the thread)digesting it deciding on a sensible merit score and then just leaving that thread (cos it got boring after reading merit buddies post) and browsing the board naturally again (not searching for merit buddies)and finding another great post (just pure chance it is same buddy posting again) to read in the middle of a thread reading it and deciding on another senisble merit score. This just happening over and over. Then they tell me --- if i happen to cross a good post I merit it simple as that. It's not like I just go searching for my merit buddies posts and taking 28 second or 30 seconds average to just plaster more merits to them. edit there is a 27 second one too... those 28 second ones are simply inefficient discovery/evaluation/rewarding incidents. The vast bulk of his merits are given out to a few people. To be honest though as I have said. I feel merit is working well for reducing negative behaviour and if people like to give some to their friends it's not hurting anyone really i guess. Some use it more as per the guide theymos has instructed some do not. Either way people get to post their views on this board with equal standing regardless of rank or merit score and each post should be evaluated on the content contain and no weight added for merit score. High merit does not mean you are a better poster than if you have low merit. Predominantly the fault of spammers and bots but some people are not really treating merit in the spirit others are. I like your idea actually - could be refined with accuracy so like reporting spam you get accuracy score and the more accurate suggesters for merit worthy posts are put to the top of the pile for review the less accurate don't get reviewed as much or if at all as time progresses.Very good idea I think you should create a poll I would vote for the implementation of it. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 05:55:47 PM Imagine 28 seconds between naturally browsing the board (not searching for your fav merit buddies at all just per chance your machine accidentally flys from you buddies post to his next one deserving more merit) reading the post (in full context of the thread)digesting it deciding on a sensible merit score and then just leaving that thread (cos it got boring after reading merit buddies post) and browsing the board naturally again (not searching for merit buddies)and finding another great post (just pure chance it is same buddy posting again) to read in the middle of a thread reading it and deciding on another senisble merit score. This just happening over and over. Then they tell me --- if i happen to cross a good post I merit it simple as that. It's not like I just go searching for my merit buddies posts and taking 28 second or 30 seconds average to just plaster more merits to them. edit there is a 27 second one too... those 28 second ones are simply inefficient discovery/evaluation/rewarding incidents. I totally agree, 28 seconds is very slow and inefficient. IIRC LoyceV had an example with two merits sent within one second. That surely means he was able to browse, read the post, and decide to merit it within one second. Super You're a fucking delusional lunatic. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 06:29:17 PM Imagine 28 seconds between naturally browsing the board (not searching for your fav merit buddies at all just per chance your machine accidentally flys from you buddies post to his next one deserving more merit) reading the post (in full context of the thread)digesting it deciding on a sensible merit score and then just leaving that thread (cos it got boring after reading merit buddies post) and browsing the board naturally again (not searching for merit buddies)and finding another great post (just pure chance it is same buddy posting again) to read in the middle of a thread reading it and deciding on another senisble merit score. This just happening over and over. Then they tell me --- if i happen to cross a good post I merit it simple as that. It's not like I just go searching for my merit buddies posts and taking 28 second or 30 seconds average to just plaster more merits to them. edit there is a 27 second one too... those 28 second ones are simply inefficient discovery/evaluation/rewarding incidents. I totally agree, 28 seconds is very slow and inefficient. IIRC LoyceV had an example with two merits sent within one second. That surely means he was able to browse, read the post, and decide to merit it within one second. Super You're a fucking delusional lunatic. Please take your meds then come back and address the previous questions I have already asked you. It is clear to see that you are avoiding them. Your denial of things you have said only moments before is worrying for you I would expect as much as they are for me. Let's move one step at a time. I think that is the safest method for you. click this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081670.msg48558480#msg48558480 and take your time i know you like to deliberate long and hard over replies. I am here to help. Remain calm and we will work thought this together. Do you have a blood pressure monitor can you read it and keep me updated because I do not want to be responsible for the board losing such a vital member. That is not a joke I am serious. You know I appreciate your work. We can move on to your Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: DdmrDdmr on December 09, 2018, 06:58:43 PM <…> If someone presses on the +merit, but has no smerit to give, then it gives the user the option to "report to merit sources." <…> I don’t think it would work. What is there to stop every active user on the forum to report load of posts, getting into the nearly impossible situation where the queue would have a size similar to all the posts being created? (I’ve exaggerated it a notch, but that is what would happen I figure, unless lots of restrictions are set in place to somehow avoid abuse and troll report of candidate posts in large numbers). Besides, for it to work similar to the regular reports, it would require for the Merit Sources to have a similar uniform criteria: if one proposed post is marked bad (i.e. does not deserve merit), then none of the other Merit Sources could merit it. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 07:50:03 PM Of course there is a legitimate Such shiny goalposts. Are these new by any chance? Of course there are reasons. Like using the post history page and/or tabs and/or bookmarks and/or any other methods merit sources use to do their job. I guess it's a good sign that this is all you can come up with in your crusade. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: bones261 on December 09, 2018, 08:10:19 PM <…> If someone presses on the +merit, but has no smerit to give, then it gives the user the option to "report to merit sources." <…> I don’t think it would work. What is there to stop every active user on the forum to report load of posts, getting into the nearly impossible situation where the queue would have a size similar to all the posts being created? (I’ve exaggerated it a notch, but that is what would happen I figure, unless lots of restrictions are set in place to somehow avoid abuse and troll report of candidate posts in large numbers). Besides, for it to work similar to the regular reports, it would require for the Merit Sources to have a similar uniform criteria: if one proposed post is marked bad (i.e. does not deserve merit), then none of the other Merit Sources could merit it. Well, it would naturally need some restrictions. If it were to be implemented, it would have to restrict the functionality to Jr members and above to mitigate sybils. Also, I think rather than a merit source having the option to mark something as "bad," it would give the merit source the option to "report to moderator." That way, if someone is trying to pass off insubstantial, off-topic, plagiarized posts etc. of their alt accounts, those posts will get reported to the moderators instead for proper action. If a merit source simply doesn't think a post deserves merit, they can simply mark it as unhandled and move on. Perhaps after x number of merit sources mark the post as unhandled, it will get removed from the queue entirely. Also, perhaps limit an account's ability to use this function to once every 24 hours. As I stated in my previous post, this probably won't get implemented. It's just a suggested solution. I'm very curious where all these unicorns are hanging out that make really good posts, yet go neglected. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 09, 2018, 11:10:28 PM Of course there is a legitimate Such shiny goalposts. Are these new by any chance? Of course there are reasons. Like using the post history page and/or tabs and/or bookmarks and/or any other methods merit sources use to do their job. I guess it's a good sign that this is all you can come up with in your crusade. It is apparent that you're unwilling/unable to face the fact you make ludicrous statements so it is easier for you to deny you made them even though they are there in black and white. That's fine. Ignore my questions/posts directed to you and just jump to other posts you feel more comfortable engaging. Nothing wrong with opening up your pals post history and shovelling merits into it every few seconds. Never said there was. That sounds as you say far more fun than naturally reading the forum and meriting good posts that you happen to come across from a wide spectrum of good posters. No crusade simply assisting you make sense of the merit system. I don't mind spending time discussing things with you at all but try to remain calm, and be open to changing your opinions if observable events dictate it is required. Also if you say something you later realise is ludicrous do not deny you said it or ignore any later reference to it just say okay I realise that was a crazy thing to say actually and that is no longer my opinion. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 09, 2018, 11:54:07 PM No crusade simply assisting you make sense of the merit system. I have 50 sMerits I need to send. Since I can't make sense of the merit system can you tell me which posts I should merit? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 10, 2018, 12:16:56 AM No crusade simply assisting you make sense of the merit system. I have 50 sMerits I need to send. Since I can't make sense of the merit system can you tell me which posts I should merit? That would be like asking your math tutor for the answer to the test you have been set. I will observe closely to see if you are doing well or there is still room for improvement. Read over this thread a few times and I almost feel confident you will be able to handle it alone in the mid to long term. Also just worth a small mention... you know how that guy likes to just fire up bitcointalk and open up his buddies list to shoot off a few early morning merits within a few seconds. Well, don't be like that. Don't fire up bitcointalk look for my latest posts and just decide to shoot off a few aggressive comments or some ludicrous fantasies in my direction. Give others a chance to enjoy talking to you. I don't feel you should focus all your positive energy towards me. I mean it will be nice to hear from you now and then of course. This is not a rejection. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 10, 2018, 01:10:08 AM No crusade simply assisting you make sense of the merit system. I have 50 sMerits I need to send. Since I can't make sense of the merit system can you tell me which posts I should merit? That would be like asking your math tutor for the answer to the test you have been set. Not really, I'm just trying to coerce you into giving up those unicorn unmerited-better-than-0.13% posts that you've been harping on for a few pages. I'm starting to think that no such thing exists. Looks like I'll have to send those sMerits the old-fashioned way - to the 800 friends. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: bones261 on December 10, 2018, 01:21:48 AM No crusade simply assisting you make sense of the merit system. I have 50 sMerits I need to send. Since I can't make sense of the merit system can you tell me which posts I should merit?That would be like asking your math tutor for the answer to the test you have been set. Not really, I'm just trying to coerce you into giving up those unicorn unmerited-better-than-0.13% posts that you've been harping on for a few pages. I'm starting to think that no such thing exists. Looks like I'll have to send those sMerits the old-fashioned way - to the 800 friends. Well, the next time you see a rainbow, you could try running really fast or get in your car to go even faster. When you reach the end of the rainbow, I'm sure you will find them there. :D Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 10, 2018, 01:41:38 AM No crusade simply assisting you make sense of the merit system. I have 50 sMerits I need to send. Since I can't make sense of the merit system can you tell me which posts I should merit?That would be like asking your math tutor for the answer to the test you have been set. Not really, I'm just trying to coerce you into giving up those unicorn unmerited-better-than-0.13% posts that you've been harping on for a few pages. I'm starting to think that no such thing exists. Looks like I'll have to send those sMerits the old-fashioned way - to the 800 friends. Well, the next time you see a rainbow, you could try running really fast or get in your car to go even faster. When you reach the end of the rainbow, I'm sure you will find them there. :D Yeah but that's gonna take more than 28 seconds :( Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Foxpup on December 10, 2018, 02:15:33 AM However when I notice a merit history like this Foxes do not perceive time in the same way that humans do. I do not expect you to understand the madness to my method, but the fact is that I (or someone who looks very much like me) really did find these posts naturally while browsing the forum, and there is a perfectly rational explanation involving time travel that is probably beyond your comprehension.Today at 13:50:34: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: account blocked today over a year old and 1500+ posts Today at 13:50:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What's happening with Bitcoin losing more than 10 per cent of its value? Today at 13:49:32: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What is this forum for? Today at 13:49:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Trust abuse! Injustice! Fake trust by winter! Much butthurt I am! Today at 13:48:33: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Is the new ERA of merit dying again? Today at 13:47:59: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: DT1 list alternation: add me on it Today at 13:47:16: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: I need merit badly . Imagine 28 seconds between naturally browsing the board (not searching for your fav merit buddies at all just per chance your machine accidentally flys from you buddies post to his next one deserving more merit) reading the post (in full context of the thread)digesting it deciding on a sensible merit score and then just leaving that thread (cos it got boring after reading merit buddies post) and browsing the board naturally again (not searching for merit buddies)and finding another great post (just pure chance it is same buddy posting again) to read in the middle of a thread reading it and deciding on another senisble merit score. This just happening over and over. Then they tell me --- if i happen to cross a good post I merit it simple as that. It's not like I just go searching for my merit buddies posts and taking 28 second or 30 seconds average to just plaster more merits to them. edit there is a 27 second one too... those 28 second ones are simply inefficient discovery/evaluation/rewarding incidents. The vast bulk of his merits are given out to a few people. Code: 3835 Merit sent by Foxpup (#55384) to 220 unique users in 1496 transactions Why are you bothering suchmoon with my merit history anyway? If you've got a problem with it, you can take it up with me. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 10, 2018, 03:00:42 AM Why are you bothering suchmoon with my merit history anyway? If you've got a problem with it, you can take it up with me. Can you imagine the shitstorm if cryptohunter found out that The Pharmacist is a member of the Vulpine Order of Merit. Oops, sorry. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 10, 2018, 03:49:03 PM Why are you bothering suchmoon with my merit history anyway? If you've got a problem with it, you can take it up with me. Can you imagine the shitstorm if cryptohunter found out that The Pharmacist is a member of the Vulpine Order of Merit. Oops, sorry. This did not escape me. Foxpup offered up what I consider a reasonable (by meta club standards) explanation regarding time travel. I accept that here at meta club one needs to adapt to these alternative realities where good posters from a group of 99.87% of the board are akin to unicorns where as within the the 0.13% they are impossible to avoid. Obviously my jealousy over the box of foxpup deadly ass fog must have been clouding my judgement. Nothing to see here. As ever Foxpup is attentive to the thread and gives it the usual 2 second glance over (which I appreciate could be many eons in his time) and does not notice I have no interest in even talking to suchmoon - he seems to unable to hold a conversation since he forgets he has said things only moments earlier. You're not dragging him around in your time machine are you. Poor guy seems very confused. Bones can't read either so it becomes difficult to get a sensible conversation going. loyce just makes random statements then will not provide any evidence or even explanation of what he means. PT well he just agrees with anything suchmoon incorrectly states. fox pup well we know he is very generous to his merit club buddies and gives out great prizes (to them) but as yet we have not tested his debating skill. Of course with time travel at his disposal this is going to be very interesting. I am worried about getting on his bad side though he may send suchmoon back in time to when I was more vulnerable. I only ask you put him in those special clothes that don't get burned off in the transition. So far we have "most" pre merit legends are spammers good posters from 99.87% of the board are unicorns. Take what up with you fox pup? there is nothing to take up. You enjoy giving merit to your friends. You enjoy giving out great prizes. Carry on I don't have an issue with it. If you are enjoying yourselves what is that to do with me? The issue is claiming merit is some objectively applied reward based on some set of criteria where all posts get equal chance of review. It simply is not that. Nothing more to say. Fun though discovering new friends along the way. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 10, 2018, 04:41:59 PM good posters from 99.87% of the board are unicorns. unicorn unmerited-better-than-0.13% posts Very subtle difference there but such an expert as yourself should be able to spot it. The issue is claiming merit is some objectively applied reward based on some set of criteria where all posts get equal chance of review. No, the issue is still your extensive use of fallacies to justify your bullshit. Nobody claims to review all posts nor is that needed. There is no need to review bounty reports and other garbage. There is no need to micromanage the merit system at the level of each individual post. What matters is that in the long run good posters will tend to accumulate more merits than shitposters and that part seems to be working. Feel free to let us know about those unmerited good posts any time. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Foxpup on December 10, 2018, 04:55:09 PM As ever Foxpup is attentive to the thread and gives it the usual 2 second glance over (which I appreciate could be many eons in his time) and does not notice I have no interest in even talking to suchmoon - he seems to not unable to hold a conversation since he forgets he has said things only moments earlier. You're not dragging him around in your time machine are you. Poor guy seems very confused. Since you have no interest in talking to suchmoon, I'd advise you to stop doing it. Repeatedly doing things that you have no interest in can be very psychologically stressful. The only one who seems confused here is you.fox pup well we know he is very generous to his merit club buddies and gives out great prizes (to them) but as yet we have not tested his debating skill. If we're going to make this a debate, perhaps you would care to present some evidence that those in my "merit club" are in fact my "buddies". I hardly know any of them at all, and there are a few whom I suspect I would greatly dislike if I did get to know them (though I'll refrain from mentioning names to avoid hurting anyone's feelings). I certainly would not call a single one of them my friend.Take what up with you fox pup? there is nothing to take up. You enjoy giving merit to your friends. You enjoy giving out great prizes. Carry on I don't have an issue with it. If you are enjoying yourselves what is that to do with me? Good question. If it's nothing to do with you, why do you persist in posting about it?EDIT: Typo Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 10, 2018, 08:50:23 PM good posters from 99.87% of the board are unicorns. unicorn unmerited-better-than-0.13% posts Very subtle difference there but such an expert as yourself should be able to spot it. The issue is claiming merit is some objectively applied reward based on some set of criteria where all posts get equal chance of review. No, the issue is still your extensive use of fallacies to justify your bullshit. Nobody claims to review all posts nor is that needed. There is no need to review bounty reports and other garbage. There is no need to micromanage the merit system at the level of each individual post. What matters is that in the long run good posters will tend to accumulate more merits than shitposters and that part seems to be working. Feel free to let us know about those unmerited good posts any time. The subtle difference is there but that is not what I asked you specifically and not what you replied to. Re- read it again. Here is my question. There is no point trying to change things now. "Yes or no out of the remaining 99.87% of the board can some of them make as good or better posts than those in the 0.13%? I mean is it likely or not?" that was what you replied to Even so to say there is not unmerrited individuals making posts as good or better than a lot of the redundant shit the top 0.13% get merits for is ludicrous. However that was not what you were replying to. So stop trying to back step. Next you'll say "most" pre merit legends just means a few. @fox Suchmoon keeps seeking me out. I feel bad ignoring him just because I am not interested .. he puts such effort in it just does not seem charitable. It could be more interesting if he could hold a sensible conversation and not forget things he says every few mins or out right deny them. Then getting angry and annoyed. You show me evidence of your time machine and I will indulge some of your requests. The onus is on you really. I mean if i were reading this and viewing the evidence ......would i believe you use a time machine to view the board naturally and treat merit as suggested or would I believe you just open your merit buddies post history and just hammer on the merit button for his posts with hardly having time to find and read them before pressing. People can draw their own conclusions. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 10, 2018, 09:21:17 PM Even so to say there is not unmerrited individuals making posts as good or better than a lot of the redundant shit the top 0.13% get merits for is ludicrous. Not as ludicrous as you punching your poor straw man for two days non-stop. Let me try for the 4th or 5th time: show me the good unmerited posts, I'll merit them if they're worthy, and we can both be proud for being part of the solution to this problem. Unless there is no problem or you're not interested in a solution, in which case please disregard this and continue trolling. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 10, 2018, 09:57:01 PM Even so to say there is not unmerrited individuals making posts as good or better than a lot of the redundant shit the top 0.13% get merits for is ludicrous. Not as ludicrous as you punching your poor straw man for two days non-stop. Let me try for the 4th or 5th time: show me the good unmerited posts, I'll merit them if they're worthy, and we can both be proud for being part of the solution to this problem. Unless there is no problem or you're not interested in a solution, in which case please disregard this and continue trolling. See what I mean the guy just can't stop himself.... he can't stay away from me. Okay okay First before I indulge your requests. Let's clear 2 things up. 1. do you believe " most " pre merit legends are spammers? 2. do you still say that I was incorrect to assume that some of the 99.87% of the board are capable of making posts as good if not better than some made by the 0.13%? Are you keeping to your original views that most pre merit legends are spammers and that none of the 99.87% are capable of making posts as good or better than some of the 0.13% Let me try that for the 6th or 20th time with you first. Answer those and I will get you some posts worthy of merit (compared to some of the run of the mill low value posts the 0.13% give merit to each other for)that have yet not received any. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Foxpup on December 11, 2018, 04:08:41 AM You show me evidence of your time machine and I will indulge some of your requests. I never said I used a time machine. You just assumed I used a time machine instead of some other means of time travel. I should point out that user's post histories are in chronological order and the posts I merited aren't. Draw whatever conclusions you like.The onus is on you really. I mean if i were reading this and viewing the evidence ......would i believe you use a time machine to view the board naturally and treat merit as suggested or would I believe you just open your merit buddies post history and just hammer on the merit button for his posts with hardly having time to find and read them before pressing. People can draw their own conclusions. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Findingnemo on December 11, 2018, 05:40:31 AM Even so to say there is not unmerrited individuals making posts as good or better than a lot of the redundant shit the top 0.13% get merits for is ludicrous. Not as ludicrous as you punching your poor straw man for two days non-stop. Let me try for the 4th or 5th time: show me the good unmerited posts, I'll merit them if they're worthy, and we can both be proud for being part of the solution to this problem. Unless there is no problem or you're not interested in a solution, in which case please disregard this and continue trolling. See what I mean the guy just can't stop himself.... he can't stay away from me. Okay okay First before I indulge your requests. Let's clear 2 things up. 1. do you believe " most " pre merit legends are spammers? 2. do you still say that I was incorrect to assume that some of the 99.87% of the board are capable of making posts as good if not better than some made by the 0.13%? Are you keeping to your original views that most pre merit legends are spammers and that none of the 99.87% are capable of making posts as good or better than some of the 0.13% Let me try that for the 6th or 20th time with you first. Answer those and I will get you some posts worthy of merit (compared to some of the run of the mill low value posts the 0.13% give merit to each other for)that have yet not received any. I think this is a flaw in this system but we have no other tool to stop ranking up the spammers.If you have any better idea to control spam then it will be appreciated but don't blame the current working system. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: marlboroza on December 12, 2018, 10:03:31 PM Today at 13:50:34: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: account blocked today over a year old and 1500+ posts I am really surprised to see this. It just doesn't feel right.Today at 13:50:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What's happening with Bitcoin losing more than 10 per cent of its value? Today at 13:49:32: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What is this forum for? Today at 13:49:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Trust abuse! Injustice! Fake trust by winter! Much butthurt I am! Today at 13:48:33: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Is the new ERA of merit dying again? Today at 13:47:59: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: DT1 list alternation: add me on it Today at 13:47:16: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: I need merit badly Imagine 28 seconds between naturally browsing the board (not searching for your fav merit buddies at all just per chance your machine accidentally flys from you buddies post to his next one deserving more merit) reading the post (in full context of the thread)digesting it deciding on a sensible merit score and then just leaving that thread (cos it got boring after reading merit buddies post) and browsing the board naturally again (not searching for merit buddies)and finding another great post (just pure chance it is same buddy posting again) to read in the middle of a thread reading it and deciding on another senisble merit score. This just happening over and over. I did some digging on both The Pharmacist and Foxpup accounts. It took me several hours and I can't step over it. Anyway, thread is in reputation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) read it if you want.Then they tell me --- if i happen to cross a good post I merit it simple as that. It's not like I just go searching for my merit buddies posts and taking 28 second or 30 seconds average to just plaster more merits to them. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: otrkid1970 on December 12, 2018, 11:25:14 PM I received my first 2 merits today on my god awful new account. I was a Legendary and got hacked. Anyways...I got my first 2 merits posting in my favorite section Politics & Society. I just posted how i felt about the topic and with no real thought about Merit. Boom 2 Merits. My advice is Enjoy the forum and make some Enjoyable comments with your own thoughts and not about thinking "Merits.
Stop overthinking the merit system Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on December 12, 2018, 11:35:58 PM <snip> I am really surprised to see this. It just doesn't feel right.You got me with that Rickroll. I thought that shit went ghost in 2012 or so, and it's not something I'd love to have revived. (lol) See what I mean the guy just can't stop himself.... he can't stay away from me. Oh ffs, he's not stalking you. You're going all over the place giving opinions that are very contrarian and playing devil's advocate in ban appeal threads. He probably just disagrees with you about some things (and I can completely understand that) and wants to challenge you on what you're writing. That's part of what a discussion forum is.However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve. Same here. I just found one post worthy of merit in an Economics thread buried in a shitpost sandwich, but looking for such things gets very tiring very quickly.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 12:46:53 AM Today at 13:50:34: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: account blocked today over a year old and 1500+ posts I am really surprised to see this. It just doesn't feel right.Today at 13:50:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What's happening with Bitcoin losing more than 10 per cent of its value? Today at 13:49:32: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What is this forum for? Today at 13:49:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Trust abuse! Injustice! Fake trust by winter! Much butthurt I am! Today at 13:48:33: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Is the new ERA of merit dying again? Today at 13:47:59: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: DT1 list alternation: add me on it Today at 13:47:16: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: I need merit badly You got me with that Rickroll. I thought that shit went ghost in 2012 or so, and it's not something I'd love to have revived. (lol) See what I mean the guy just can't stop himself.... he can't stay away from me. Oh ffs, he's not stalking you. You're going all over the place giving opinions that are very contrarian and playing devil's advocate in ban appeal threads. He probably just disagrees with you about some things (and I can completely understand that) and wants to challenge you on what you're writing. That's part of what a discussion forum is.However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve. Same here. I just found one post worthy of merit in an Economics thread buried in a shitpost sandwich, but looking for such things gets very tiring very quickly.There is nothing really more to say about merit allocation. I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores. Can you explain these contrarian views that I have been voicing? - this is different from the playing devils advocate in the ban appeals? Tell me which parts of suchmoons failed rebuttals of my posts you can completely understand? Please give a detailed and structured argument that I can consider and decide if the evidence/case provide requires me to reconsider. I am actually a very open minded person. Are these contrarian views?... Most pre merit legends are spammers It is idiotic to assume some of the 99.87% of this board can make posts as good or better than some of the 0.13%. Or are those views that you share with suchmoon too? Actually I would be interested to hear your views on precisely those two opinions. I mean I was not really too bothered about continuing this thread as I feel there was enough material for people to review themselves and make up their own minds. However, since I keep seeing more people replying to me then I guess it could be rude to not respond and try to find out what exactly they mean. @ marlboroza I'm glad you don't think it looks right. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 13, 2018, 02:46:11 AM I was actually surprised as well. Foxpup probably bookmarked your posts because you hit 50 in one month. Or time travel. I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores. Of the ~300k merits sent out so far ~12% have been sent between the top 200 merit receivers, which is what your 0.13% seems to be referring to - a fallacy in its own right because you haven't shown why 150k users are supposed to be "eligible". You could also argue that 17% of the 150k users are getting 100% of merits. Is that good or bad? None of this is evidence of anything. You haven't even been able to provide examples to support your assertions, let alone coherently explain why that's wrong or how "not wrong" should look like. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Foxpup on December 13, 2018, 03:43:52 AM Foxpup probably bookmarked your posts because you hit 50 in one month. Or time travel. I prefer to think of it as sending messages to my future self. Future me is somewhat unreliable (he still hasn't done any of the chores I told him to do), but he does trust past me's judgement, and trust is important when dealing with one's past and future selves. Distrusting one's past or future self is a common source of frustration when time travelling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75nBenOWul0).Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 12:56:35 PM I was actually surprised as well. Foxpup probably bookmarked your posts because you hit 50 in one month. Or time travel. I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores. Of the ~300k merits sent out so far ~12% have been sent between the top 200 merit receivers, which is what your 0.13% seems to be referring to - a fallacy in its own right because you haven't shown why 150k users are supposed to be "eligible". You could also argue that 17% of the 150k users are getting 100% of merits. Is that good or bad? None of this is evidence of anything. You haven't even been able to provide examples to support your assertions, let alone coherently explain why that's wrong or how "not wrong" should look like. Oh ... you're back. Or here anyway who knows with you and fox pup. It has taken you like 2 days (in my time anyway) to dream up this response and once again ignore my previous questions. Try answering those first then we can discuss further else it just turns into a one sided debate with you not answering anything but just asking me more and more questions. I'm not asking for anything new I am asking for you to reaffirm your previous statements so I know if there is any chance of a sensible conversation. While you're about it show me the stats/evidence to back those up too since you love stats and have 20 other buddies who are stats experts it will be a trivial task. Then you get to ask me things too. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 13, 2018, 01:46:27 PM Oh ... you're back. Or here anyway who knows with you and fox pup. It has taken you like 2 days (in my time anyway) to dream up this response and once again ignore my previous questions. Try answering those first then we can discuss further else it just turns into a one sided debate with you not answering anything but just asking me more and more questions. I'm not asking for anything new I am asking for you to reaffirm your previous statements so I know if there is any chance of a sensible conversation. While you're about it show me the stats/evidence to back those up too since you love stats and have 20 other buddies who are stats experts it will be a trivial task. Then you get to ask me things too. I have responded to your questions, you just didn't like the answers. And I'm not really asking you anything new so if you don't feel like debating - don't. The question in my previous post was largely a rhetorical one. It's already been established with reasonable certainty that you can't or won't show us the unmerited good posts, which is the only thing that really matters to me in this whole discussion. I take the merit system seriously, you don't. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: marlboroza on December 13, 2018, 03:20:00 PM I am really surprised to see this. It just doesn't feel right. I was actually surprised as well. I'm not sure why he gave me that many merits for all those posts--I guess he just likes what I post, but you'd have to ask him for the reason. @Foxpup, why, oh why have you sent merit to good posts? @ marlboroza You missed point ::)I'm glad you don't think it looks right. I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores. So where is evidence?You can check my merit history and you will see something similar: https://i.imgur.com/PSduRhM.png Less then minute. https://i.imgur.com/vlp4FqT.png 11 seconds! To the same accounts! There is no possible way I could have read both threads in 11 seconds. https://i.imgur.com/Cv8w2UE.png FFS 10 seconds! Again lowesmayfamilies https://i.imgur.com/N7NEo8l.png 46 seconds Abuse! Circle of merit jerks! Buddies! I would really like to hear your opinion on this...evidence. Quote that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores If you often read for example meta logically you will more often merit posts posted in meta. If user is good poster, someone might check post history and find more interesting and good posts and merit them as well. You can't really force anyone to read boards which they don't find interesting and to merit posts there. This is forum after all and it should be used as forum not some game where you need to jump somewhere to collect or send merits. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: LoyceV on December 13, 2018, 03:29:07 PM You can check my merit history and you will see something similar: Those are rookie numbers :D Beat this:https://i.imgur.com/PSduRhM.png Less then minute. https://i.imgur.com/vlp4FqT.png 11 seconds! To the same accounts! There is no possible way I could have read both threads in 11 seconds. https://i.imgur.com/Cv8w2UE.png FFS 10 seconds! Again lowesmayfamilies November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to DarkStar_ for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2 November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to HCP for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2 November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to KingZee for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2 November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to KingZee for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2 (and no, those 2 to KingZee did not go to the same post) And it wasn't my first time either: October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to Indamuck for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to audaciousbeing for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to figmentofmyass for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to KonstantinosM for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 03:55:38 PM Oh ... you're back. Or here anyway who knows with you and fox pup. It has taken you like 2 days (in my time anyway) to dream up this response and once again ignore my previous questions. Try answering those first then we can discuss further else it just turns into a one sided debate with you not answering anything but just asking me more and more questions. I'm not asking for anything new I am asking for you to reaffirm your previous statements so I know if there is any chance of a sensible conversation. While you're about it show me the stats/evidence to back those up too since you love stats and have 20 other buddies who are stats experts it will be a trivial task. Then you get to ask me things too. I have responded to your questions, you just didn't like the answers. And I'm not really asking you anything new so if you don't feel like debating - don't. The question in my previous post was largely a rhetorical one. It's already been established with reasonable certainty that you can't or won't show us the unmerited good posts, which is the only thing that really matters to me in this whole discussion. I take the merit system seriously, you don't. You have not responded. Let's try for one more time. Yes or No. Not a lot of word salad trying to justify a bunch of excuses from merit/meta circle club. So Yes or NO 1/Most of all pre merit legends are spammers 2/Is it crazy and idiotic to believe that some of the 99.87% of users can make posts as good if not better than some of the 0.13% of users (the top 200 merited individuals) For now I will concentrate on suchmoon because I don't want to muddy the waters with excuses from malboroza. For now try to hold up responding with excuses like well I just like reading merit board where there are basically just my pals, some noobs looking for merit crumbs and people wondering why their accounts are banned for copy and paste . The funny part is TP thought is was a legit and reasonable reply (that you made) and was obviously thinking it looked shady as would any other person looking at it. The fact you think this kind of bookmarking your favs and showering merit on them as opposed to naturally browsing the board and giving merit to posts you organically fine 100% would exclude you from being a mod. Mods are mean to be totally objective and treat the systems in place in the spirit they were designed. I mean the fact that a host of the top merit sources and holders freely admit they don't venture to the alt boards ( the boards most greatly effect and the greatest need to sort the wheat from the chaff) is in itself makes it obvious not even nearly the same chance exists for a merit on the alt boards as on the meta board. There is no real need for opinion I have offered all these people a chance to demonstrate their merit is from a broad base of recognition and not one has offered to post their merit scores after passing a simple filter. I want you to respond with one simple answer malboroza... What is your earned merit score now and what would be your merit score if we removed the opinions of 0.13% of this board and removed all your meta merit. Let me know that answer because these scores are what none of you care to publish where as you can not contain yourselves posting all other kinds of merit data. Same goes for suchmoon TP fox loyce and any others arguing in this thread that merit is an accurate representation of post value. Post your new scores or stop replying. I say you will all lose 80% or greater. Let's see if you lose less than 50% I will be very impressed but I know most will exceed an 80% loss. I await to here such moons answers and all the other merit cycling clubs scores before they ask any more questions or make any more excuses. I will wait to hear why you all lose such a huge 80% or great of your merits if just the opinions of 0.13% of users are cast aside and 1 tiny sub board which may have a reasonable amount of posts but I notice there are only a tiny % of regular posters that make the vast majority of the posts here. So let me just ask this question to you all - suchmoon, loyce , anyone in this thread in a top 50 merited position posting in this thread. I say some here have their merits reduced by over 90% which is quite hilarious. Come on enough excuses, I don't have time, these stats are not important, these stats don't show anything, I don't like viewing other boards, I don't like viewing other peoples posts only bookmark my friends post histories, I can safely assume 99.87% of users can't make any good posts, lol Now read this post and make some answers to the questions. suchmoon is refusing to answer yes or no to 2 simple questions on his previous statements, all are refusing to refute my statement they all lose 80%-90% + of their merits .... @loyce Please answer one set of questions before proceeding to the next stage of the conversation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081670.msg48556141#msg48556141 There is no point me even reading your posts if you are not willing to even make an effort to substantiate the claims that you make. I mean make an effort or remain quiet. Suchmoon at least will try sometimes to substantiate his excuses you just vanish for days then think you can come back and make no effort to provide any argument at all for your statements. Of course he wants to forget his rash statements made in anger because he is very emotional and that can cloud his otherwise reasonable and at time valuable contributions. Once he is able to discuss things in a civil way and not take everything to personally he will make a much better poster. I am happy to remain civil and discuss anything reasonably, but I can not waste time on those that will not make effort to respond to questions or validate their statements. foxpup is a joker but seems to be able to remain civil. I don't have an issue with any of you you are not scammers or anything really bad but you are unwilling to accept that your inflated merit scores are easily explained in other terms that are not because you are the most valuable posters. I have seen several times people implying their argument or their value is greater than someone else because of their higher merit score. This is not essentially true. You can not make statements like that. The fact those the most effected by the removal of the merit club cycling and meta club are here arguing the most is quite telling too. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 13, 2018, 04:30:55 PM Post your new scores or stop replying. I say you will all lose 80% or greater. Let's see if you lose less than 50% I will be very impressed but I know most will exceed an 80% loss. You're the one making the claim. Go ahead and do it, the data is available.[...] all are refusing to refute my statement they all lose 80%-90% + of their merits .... I have seen several times people implying their argument or their value is greater than someone else because of their higher merit score. Who said that?organically https://meem.link/i/a/OrzJHw.jpg Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 05:22:13 PM Post your new scores or stop replying. I say you will all lose 80% or greater. Let's see if you lose less than 50% I will be very impressed but I know most will exceed an 80% loss. You're the one making the claim. Go ahead and do it, the data is available.[...] all are refusing to refute my statement they all lose 80%-90% + of their merits .... I have seen several times people implying their argument or their value is greater than someone else because of their higher merit score. Who said that?organically https://i.snag.gy/OrzJHw.jpg HOMEMADE - meta club home of the merit cycle and back slappers of btc. I am not answering any more of your questions until you answer mine. That is flat refusal by you many times in a row to answer questions directly regarding statements you have made. It is impossible to maintain a sensible discussion under those conditions. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 13, 2018, 05:55:03 PM HOMEMADE - meta club home of the merit cycle and back slappers of btc. Yep, that's exactly what we do. Our club gathers each week in Foxpup's foxhole and contrives devious plans on how to send more merits to ourselves because we so desperately need them... for something. Then we pile into the time machine and make sure to space the merits out by 28 seconds - that's like our secret handshake. Some of us are also involved in even more wicked activities, such as reporting poor and homeless shitposters to the authorities for the benefit... of something or other. And in between all that we sometimes even post things here, with words and numbers and everything because... reasons. It's the end of the world, I'm telling you. The unspeakable horror of forum users doing forumy stuff on the forum. We should be ashamed of this elitist backslapping and as a penance copy-paste something in scam ICO threads instead. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: marlboroza on December 13, 2018, 05:55:45 PM For now I will concentrate on suchmoon because I don't want to muddy the waters with excuses from malboroza. What excuses?The funny part is TP thought is was a legit and reasonable reply (that you made) and was obviously thinking it looked shady as would any other person looking at it. Everything was pointing to something.Quote I want you to respond with one simple answer malboroza... Can you publish it for me?What is your earned merit score now and what would be your merit score if we removed the opinions of 0.13% of this board and removed all your meta merit. Let me know that answer because these scores are what none of you care to publish where as you can not contain yourselves posting all other kinds of merit data. The fact you think this kind of bookmarking your favs and showering merit on them as opposed to naturally browsing the board and giving merit to posts you organically fine 100% would exclude you from being a mod. Mods are mean to be totally objective and treat the systems in place in the spirit they were designed I see good post and I don't have smerit. Why do you think I should not merit that post later? Post become bad all of sudden or something? Old? It doesn't deserve to be merited any more? What? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 06:13:14 PM For now I will concentrate on suchmoon because I don't want to muddy the waters with excuses from malboroza. What excuses?The funny part is TP thought is was a legit and reasonable reply (that you made) and was obviously thinking it looked shady as would any other person looking at it. Everything was pointing to something.Quote I want you to respond with one simple answer malboroza... Can you publish it for me?What is your earned merit score now and what would be your merit score if we removed the opinions of 0.13% of this board and removed all your meta merit. Let me know that answer because these scores are what none of you care to publish where as you can not contain yourselves posting all other kinds of merit data. The fact you think this kind of bookmarking your favs and showering merit on them as opposed to naturally browsing the board and giving merit to posts you organically fine 100% would exclude you from being a mod. Mods are mean to be totally objective and treat the systems in place in the spirit they were designed I see good post and I don't have smerit. Why do you think I should not merit that post later? Post become bad all of sudden or something? Old? It doesn't deserve to be merited any more? What? Let me try to cut through the word salad excuses and exciting advances in time travel with foxs @ suchmoon I still see no answers to the questions. @malb 1st and last are related. Middle one is just avoiding demonstrating your earned merits are reduced by 90% There will always be some far fetched nonsense excuse. Tell me how your story of meriting applies to fox pups smerit spamming of pharmacist. I mean walk me through it so he is browsing the board naturally reading and finding posts naturally to merit (not browsing his pals post history looking for excuses to give merit to them) and he runs out of smerits?? then what happens. Describe a realistic scenario that leads to this kind of merit history. I am ready to change my opinion on fox pup given some realistic scenerio. I mean really since you are all merit stats experts I would have thought you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims that your earned merit would be reduced by 90% is incorrect..... sadly it seems you will be so keen to to provide such data because you know I am correct. Next I wonder if you took fox pups 3k plus merit and look what % went to his top ... let's say 30 pals that he runs out of merit for but never forgets to top them up as soon as he gets some more? Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 13, 2018, 06:39:35 PM you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims Do you have a Mountain Dew drip bag attached so that you can't move your ass and do this shit yourself? Ah crap, that sounds like another question. Never mind. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 06:46:08 PM you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims Do you have a Mountain Dew drip bag attached so that you can't move your ass and do this shit yourself? Ah crap, that sounds like another question. Never mind. That's it you're getting the hang of it now. You need to answer questions regarding your crazy statements not just continuously asking more and more questions that seem reasonable to you. Have a think for a while and try again. Don't rush things. I know you need to take your time to get it all worked out in your mind first. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: Foxpup on December 13, 2018, 06:48:42 PM Tell me how your story of meriting applies to fox pups smerit spamming of pharmacist. I mean walk me through it so he is browsing the board naturally reading and finding posts naturally to merit (not browsing his pals post history looking for excuses to give merit to them) and he runs out of smerits?? then what happens. Describe a realistic scenario that leads to this kind of merit history. I am ready to change my opinion on fox pup given some realistic scenerio. I've already given you some realistic scenario. Whether you choose to believe it is your business, not mine.Next I wonder if you took fox pups 3k plus merit and look what % went to his top ... let's say 30 pals that he runs out of merit for but never forgets to top them up as soon as he gets some more? I have 30 pals now? Forgive me, but it appears I've become so popular that I can't keep track of all my friends (who appear to be in danger of exceeding the maximum occupancy of my foxhole). Perhaps you'd care to name these 30 pals to refresh my memory?Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 07:00:24 PM Tell me how your story of meriting applies to fox pups smerit spamming of pharmacist. I mean walk me through it so he is browsing the board naturally reading and finding posts naturally to merit (not browsing his pals post history looking for excuses to give merit to them) and he runs out of smerits?? then what happens. Describe a realistic scenario that leads to this kind of merit history. I am ready to change my opinion on fox pup given some realistic scenerio. I've already given you some realistic scenario. Whether you choose to believe it is your business, not mine.Next I wonder if you took fox pups 3k plus merit and look what % went to his top ... let's say 30 pals that he runs out of merit for but never forgets to top them up as soon as he gets some more? I have 30 pals now? Forgive me, but it appears I've become so popular that I can't keep track of all my friends (who appear to be in danger of exceeding the maximum occupancy of my foxhole). Perhaps you'd care to name these 30 pals to refresh my memory?Easiest way to find out for yourself is look at the top 30 receivers of your merit or just ask the names of the people that have crammed into your foxhole now and then. However having time travel and no space displacement abilities is not cool. I accepted your account of events I have no idea why the others here are finding it essential to 1/ continue the conversation 2/ provide alternative It's like they don't believe your account of events or something. Haters... Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: marlboroza on December 13, 2018, 08:27:56 PM since you are all merit stats experts From where did you get this wrong info?I would have thought you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims that your earned merit would be reduced by 90% is incorrect..... My merit data: https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=marlborozaNow go and count merits. sadly it seems you will be so keen to to provide such data because you know I am correct. Actually I don't. Anyway, when you are done, please count merits in other boards, I would really like to know my stats.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: cryptohunter on December 13, 2018, 10:11:45 PM since you are all merit stats experts From where did you get this wrong info?I would have thought you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims that your earned merit would be reduced by 90% is incorrect..... My merit data: https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=marlborozaNow go and count merits. sadly it seems you will be so keen to to provide such data because you know I am correct. Actually I don't. Anyway, when you are done, please count merits in other boards, I would really like to know my stats.I wish I had time to do that or had the motivation. You seem generally like a good member and were reasonable on another thread where I think there was some heavy handedness occurring so it's not like scam hunting where there is a reward at the end. It's not like I want you banned or want to say you are net negative. However I don't feel the discussion was viewed objectively by some here and some claims have been made that are unrealistic at best. I mean just at a quick browse on your post history I can notice plenty of merits from people that are aligning with you in this thread. Do I say this is some collusion and dark purpose. No. I say there is a lot of collisions (not collusions) between a few people on a small board and they align with the views each other has therefore they want to bestow merit. Fair enough. Let me state again.. merit is subjective so give it as you will to whom you wish. That is fine and I am not saying the top 0.13% post junk I mean a lot of good posters are in there and there probably is a high concentration of pretty good posters and some real top level posters. A lot of mediocre but well meaning posters who collaborate to achieve very good things. All should have some merit. Just saying higher merit = better poster is not true. It is impossible to make that statement and I think rank depending on it past a certain level say full member is a bit harsh. Especially to posters of alt boards. No need for further discussion. It just seems that some high merit posters will not accept this and want to continue arguing it is some kind of objective score achieved against some strict criteria which every post has been matched against. Unless you can isolate some reason why this is not how it is and prove it or at least provide some sensible corroborating evidence then just stop posting and going around in circles. I'm sure most people arguing here are doing some good work and benefit the board but I can't just agree with them when I believe they are wrong about certain things. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: suchmoon on December 13, 2018, 10:16:14 PM prove it or at least provide some sensible corroborating evidence then just stop posting and going around in circles. Great advice. Take it. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: marlboroza on December 13, 2018, 11:13:23 PM I wish I had time to do that or had the motivation. Than we all agree this discussion is over.Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: GreenProfit on January 03, 2019, 03:42:32 AM If you really want to get some bigger amount of merits you can try to make everyday at least 5-10 posts on this forum,or 30-50 weekly but not too much and try to make creative posts.
Best places where you can get merits are: 1.Bitcoin Discuss 2.Beginners&Help 3.Meta 4.Serious Discussion 5.Trading Discussion I hope that this will help you ;) Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: S_Therapist on January 03, 2019, 04:16:10 AM If you really want to get some bigger amount of merits you can try to make everyday at least 5-10 posts on this forum,or 30-50 weekly but not too much and try to make creative posts. I have heard recently that merit is being poured mostly at Local Language, lol.Best places where you can get merits are: 1.Bitcoin Discuss 2.Beginners&Help 3.Meta 4.Serious Discussion 5.Trading Discussion I hope that this will help you ;) If someone objectively posts for getting merit, he may get 10 or some more at maximum. Why do I need to post in specific board only for having merits? People should post where they enjoy the most. In my case, I was recently in 777 campaign where people get bonus rate for creating 15 posts in gambling. But I didn't just because I don't like gambling or I don't have experience on it. Therefore, I should not post there and I heard my mind, not the bonus pay rate. That's how a forum should be browsed. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: GreenProfit on January 03, 2019, 04:52:00 AM If you really want to get some bigger amount of merits you can try to make everyday at least 5-10 posts on this forum,or 30-50 weekly but not too much and try to make creative posts. I have heard recently that merit is being poured mostly at Local Language, lol.Best places where you can get merits are: 1.Bitcoin Discuss 2.Beginners&Help 3.Meta 4.Serious Discussion 5.Trading Discussion I hope that this will help you ;) If someone objectively posts for getting merit, he may get 10 or some more at maximum. Why do I need to post in specific board only for having merits? People should post where they enjoy the most. In my case, I was recently in 777 campaign where people get bonus rate for creating 15 posts in gambling. But I didn't just because I don't like gambling or I don't have experience on it. Therefore, I should not post there and I heard my mind, not the bonus pay rate. That's how a forum should be browsed. I just saw that one of my friends did a research where people give merit most times and that is reason why I told you some specific board because it can help you to get more merit,you just need to be active and post something there but it is your choise you can also post at another board if you want. Title: Re: Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions? Post by: S_Therapist on January 03, 2019, 05:00:56 AM I just saw that one of my friends did a research where people give merit most times and that is reason why I told you some specific board because it can help you to get more merit,you just need to be active and post something there but it is your choise you can also post at another board if you want. I just have wanted to say merit has been introduced for recognizing quality post/having quality post. The research has been done for finding out where quality post are being posted and which one is most active in terms of pouring merit. It has not been done for finding out where people should post for getting most merit.Take it easy man. I am just trying to pointing out the purpose of merit. |
