Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions?

[acarli]

Hey guys. This is not a bashing post. I was thinking about some cool bitcoin topics and checked out the forums were I could post. Sometimes I like to spend some time making an awesome post. As you know it takes a while to write a quality post that will encourage quality engagement from other users. I noticed that on quite a few forums the moderators do not give out insignificant amounts of smerit. I will certainly post regardless, but I thought that it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads.

What do you guys think is a solution?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

First of all, mods aren't responsible for giving out merits--the community as a whole is.  Second, whether you earn merits or not depends on basically two factors, 1) Whether your post is good or not, and 2) Your post has to be seen by someone with sMerits to give.

If you're posting in a thread that has many pages of replies, and I don't have a hard number for this, no one is likely going to even see your post.  Certain sections like Bitcoin Discussion and the entire altcoin section are full of spammers just posting to get paid.  Since anyone with either a brain or sMerits to give is going to avoid those sections, posting there isn't likely to do you any favors. 

You're fortunate to have gotten as many merits as you have.  Many members with your rank and post count have gotten ZERO merits, and they're not likely to earn any for the rest of their miserable careers on bitcointalk.  It's not supposed to be easy to earn merits; that's the whole point of the system.  If it was easy, it wouldn't prevent shitposters from ranking up and the whole system would be useless.

[kingpin4321]

You have become quite synonymous to making post that relates to merit or smerit

Could your interest be a merit hunt in disguise?

The merit system is perfectly arrange and is working on very much fine why don't we leave it the way it is and focus on the pressing issues

[Infinixhot1996]

The duty of moderators on each"board" is to clean up that board/section and try and keep it as sane as possible,through deleting low content and spam posts or topics
It's not their duty to hand out merits,thats not to say they dont/do,as a matter of fact it's not anyone's duty to hand out Smerits except probably the merit sources which to an extent is their duty, and they'll only do so to worthy posts.

With or without merits,or merit giving mods or members,that definitely shouldn't deter you from coming up with the quality stuff you claim you want to, merit is just an addition,as our major purpose here is to discuss(sensibly through quality topics)
Be careful of the section you'll post your topic,otherwise it definitely may not even merits but get reported for being a spamfest

[acarli]

First of all, mods aren't responsible for giving out merits--the community as a whole is.  Second, whether you earn merits or not depends on basically two factors, 1) Whether your post is good or not, and 2) Your post has to be seen by someone with sMerits to give.

You're fortunate to have gotten as many merits as you have.  Many members with your rank and post count have gotten ZERO merits, and they're not likely to earn any for the rest of their miserable careers on bitcointalk.  It's not supposed to be easy to earn merits; that's the whole point of the system.  If it was easy, it wouldn't prevent shitposters from ranking up and the whole system would be useless.

Thank you for the clarification. I haven't been around here enough to fully understand the roles of moderators. Admittedly, in the back of my mind maybe I want to be "validated". lol. I'll work on that.

You have become quite synonymous to making post that relates to merit or smerit
..
Could your interest be a merit hunt in disguise?
..

I strongly disagree with you on that one. Check out my posts.

[Thirdspace]

I noticed that on quite a few forums the moderators do not give out insignificant amounts of smerit. I will certainly post regardless, but I thought that it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads.

mods aren't merit distributors, appointed merit sources are
so keep posting... as a thread starter or involved in a long thread doesn't warrant a merit
if you feel discouraged just because not getting merit then you're in this forum for the wrong reason

[cryptohunter]

Hey guys. This is not a bashing post. I was thinking about some cool bitcoin topics and checked out the forums were I could post. Sometimes I like to spend some time making an awesome post. As you know it takes a while to write a quality post that will encourage quality engagement from other users. I noticed that on quite a few forums the moderators do not give out insignificant amounts of smerit. I will certainly post regardless, but I thought that it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads.

What do you guys think is a solution?

You are indeed correct. However the real fault lies with the myriads of spammers and bots and puppet accounts because they make it far more difficult to locate good posters.

This will eventually be solved meanwhile don't worry too much about merit. If you are determined to get optimal recognition for good posts (in terms of merit) you will need to use the stats provided on meta to locate the best boards to post on. Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. I calculated that if you were to remove merits given by the top 300 to the top 200 and removed all merits given in this meta sub board most people (except a handful) would only have got max 100/150 merits. Most of the top 200 saw reductions in the 50% - 75% range (that was without subtracting merits given on the meta sub board. With that you could be looking at reductions up to 95%.

So if you have got even say 10 merits and none from the meta board (except what I just gave you for noticing this and making a relevant post here) then you are doing very well actually.

If you are a good poster you will eventually get known on the basis of your work here and I would then not worry about the rankings and merits too much.

On top of all of that there is serious gaming going on. There was a case of a legend just giving 50 merits each to 2 other accounts for nearly identical post (not really deserving of any merit) when analysed all 3 shared an eth addy so looked like highly probably alts. I would think these cases should be treated a little more harshly but merit is subjective so not really possible to police to make it fairer right now.

There does not really need to be a solution  right now because merit is working to prevent a lot of negative behaviour ( as opposed to having no merit system) and also over time once the bots, account farmers, ico spammers vanish it will be easier to locate your posts and you would hope the merit system will balance out. I have suggested a few alternatives but nobody really liked them.

[Jet Cash]

Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time.

I don't think that is true, and coupling that with the comment about meriting Meta posts, put me off awarding the merits that I was going to award in this thread.

[khaled0111]

Whenever you find a good thread that didn't receive any merit, you can send the link to Suchmoon.
Take a look at his thread: * FREE merits - CLICK HERE!!! *
It is not going to solve the problem, but it can help.

[Findingnemo]

Moderators are just moderators,their work is to moderate the sections where they have been assigned.I don't know how many of the mods are merit sources here but giving out the merit is not the work of moderators its the responsibility of merit sources and all other forum members who have sMerits to send.

[mdayonliner]

What do you guys think is a solution?

There are merit sources who are actively looking to award merits to those who qualifies. Keep doing the good works and merit will follow you. The mods are not responsible to give away merits. Don't expect any from them.

[LoyceV]

~it is discouraging to see so many threads that are 300+ replies but no smerits assigned, not even in any of the threads.

The forum is overrun by spammers, so the number of posts in a thread doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the thread.

What do you guys think is a solution?

You could apply to be a Merit source, but I don't think you'll be selected considering this:

I haven't been around here enough to fully understand the roles of moderators.

Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time.

You keep posting this as if it's a bad thing Quality posts deserve Merit, and the same posters have sMerit to give. It makes perfect sense that a large share of all merit goes around in a small number of users.

I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification.

[Upgrade00]

Moderators are not responsible for merit awarding neither are regular members, the only group charged with distributing merits are sources, and it's a voluntary task, so we can cut them some slack.

There are lots of problems presented as a reason for lack of efficient merit distribution across the boards.
High level of spam on some boards and very little moderation makes members unwilling to dig through the pile in search of quality posts.

The only immediate solution that can be implemented is the Reporter badge which has been discussed at length, and maybe additional incentives to clean up the forum.

[The Cryptovator]

I am not encourage to claim moderators about send merit. On the other hand all moderators are not merit source so they should have enough smerit to send others. Secondly they should have enough time to read your thread because they are too busy. Moderating forum isn't easy work that we think.

Sometimes it's depend on board where you made post. If it's Bitcoin related, I mean if you made post on Bitcoin Discussion board then very low chance that gain merit. Especially Altcoin Discussion & Bitcoin Discussion board. Even sometimes I am looking for send few merit to newbie and demoted newbie I can't find most of day. Then how will moderators find quality post ?

However mod are not responsible for handle merit. Merit source and we are responsible for that. Most of people's don't want to spend merit especially who got from airdrop. Because they don't know how hard to earn merit. So we should encourage to spend our smerit instead of claim mod.

[cryptohunter]

Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time.

You keep posting this as if it's a bad thing Quality posts deserve Merit, and the same posters have sMerit to give. It makes perfect sense that a large share of all merit goes around in a small number of users.

I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification.

@jetcash

it is actually 100% true you can test it for yourself.

also this bunch of stats provided by r1s2g3 after I asked if he could provide

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit#gid=429409603

demonstrates the scale of the merit cycling in the tiny fraction of a percent of posters

that is without meta subsection (highly concentrated merit club) being removed. My figure estimates I think will be found to be entirely correct. You can expect some of the highest merit receivers to take a 95% hair cut.
 
@loyce

It only makes sense the merit back slappers club that the top 0.02 retain 50% of all their merits cycled around internally and mostly in meta

I am clearly observing merit is mostly given for simply aligning your view with others whom are active in meta and have lots of merit to give. I am seeing merit given time and time again for the voicing of opinions that are actually clearly wrong based on observable events.

Trying to conflate high merit with high value posts is incorrect.

Let me say though this is not entirely negative and I see no reason not to merit people you agree with or a friend/pal posting something you find amusing etc...... merit is for fun as well it seems. Also in meta people will almost do things you ask and you feel justified in repaying with a bit of merit.

What is wrong is to imply merit is an indication of a posts value or rather having high merit qualifies you as automatically a better post than those with less merit.

Merit is helping stop lots of negative behaviour and is fun. Therefore a positive thing.

[suchmoon]

I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification.

You're stealing my business LOL

I've had this type of offer open to ANYONE for three months now and it just doesn't work. Good luck to you though

[LoyceV]

I've had this type of offer open to ANYONE for three months now and it just doesn't work. Good luck to you though

I've given similar offers to a few people. Let's just say it's an offer that gets ignored most of the time

[acarli]

.....
I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification.

Thank you LoyceV. I've only three so far. I wasn't quite sure if you meant any other threads in the "meta" forum. I'll go with this specific topic. So far, I would give merit tp 2 posts for sure, and a solid maybe on the third.

Here they are:

(1) cryptohunter : firstly he gives good quality information that is not readily obvious. He showed he made an effort and spent time formulating his post. I also searched for duplicate content, just to make sure you guys werent' pulling my leg. lol

He wrote:

.......
You are indeed correct. However the real fault lies with the myriads of spammers and bots and puppet accounts because they make it far more difficult to locate good posters.

This will eventually be solved meanwhile don't worry too much about merit. If you are determined to get optimal recognition for good posts (in terms of merit) you will need to use the stats provided on meta to locate the best boards to post on. Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time. I calculated that if you were to remove merits given by the top 300 to the top 200 and removed all merits given in this meta sub board most people (except a handful) would only have got max 100/150 merits. Most of the top 200 saw reductions in the 50% - 75% range (that was without subtracting merits given on the meta sub board. With that you could be looking at reductions up to 95%.

So if you have got even say 10 merits and none from the meta board (except what I just gave you for noticing this and making a relevant post here) then you are doing very well actually.

If you are a good poster you will eventually get known on the basis of your work here and I would then not worry about the rankings and merits too much.

On top of all of that there is serious gaming going on. There was a case of a legend just giving 50 merits each to 2 other accounts for nearly identical post (not really deserving of any merit) when analysed all 3 shared an eth addy so looked like highly probably alts. I would think these cases should be treated a little more harshly but merit is subjective so not really possible to police to make it fairer right now.

There does not really need to be a solution  right now because merit is working to prevent a lot of negative behaviour ( as opposed to having no merit system) and also over time once the bots, account farmers, ico spammers vanish it will be easier to locate your posts and you would hope the merit system will balance out. I have suggested a few alternatives but nobody really liked them.

Again he engaged with other's comments. This shows me he actually read the responses and is engaging. Doesn't that generall add value to the forum? I think so. Now the question I would have is what is the threshold for merit allocation.

(2) cryptohunter :

it is actually 100% true you can test it for yourself.

also this bunch of stats provided by r1s2g3 after I asked if he could provide

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit#gid=429409603

demonstrates the scale of the merit cycling in the tiny fraction of a percent of posters

that is without meta subsection (highly concentrated merit club) being removed. My figure estimates I think will be found to be entirely correct. You can expect some of the highest merit receivers to take a 95% hair cut.
 
@loyce

It only makes sense the merit back slappers club that the top 0.02 retain 50% of all their merits cycled around internally and mostly in meta

I am clearly observing merit is mostly given for simply aligning your view with others whom are active in meta and have lots of merit to give. I am seeing merit given time and time again for the voicing of opinions that are actually clearly wrong based on observable events.

Trying to conflate high merit with high value posts is incorrect.

Let me say though this is not entirely negative and I see no reason not to merit people you agree with or a friend/pal posting something you find amusing etc...... merit is for fun as well it seems. Also in meta people will almost do things you ask and you feel justified in repaying with a bit of merit.

What is wrong is to imply merit is an indication of a posts value or rather having high merit qualifies you as automatically a better post than those with less merit.

Merit is helping stop lots of negative behaviour and is fun. Therefore a positive thing.

(3) Infinixhot1996 : he ws the first to help me (the post originator) clear up the role of a moderator. I found this valuable and appreciated the clarification. So I'd say he's damn close to merit worth regardless of the other posters echoing the same.

The duty of moderators on each"board" is to clean up that board/section and try and keep it as sane as possible,through deleting low content and spam posts or topics
It's not their duty to hand out merits,thats not to say they dont/do,as a matter of fact it's not anyone's duty to hand out Smerits except probably the merit sources which to an extent is their duty, and they'll only do so to worthy posts.

With or without merits,or merit giving mods or members,that definitely shouldn't deter you from coming up with the quality stuff you claim you want to, merit is just an addition,as our major purpose here is to discuss(sensibly through quality topics)
Be careful of the section you'll post your topic,otherwise it definitely may not even merits but get reported for being a spamfest

(3)

Sadly for you the fact is the top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them at this time.

You keep posting this as if it's a bad thing Quality posts deserve Merit, and the same posters have sMerit to give. It makes perfect sense that a large share of all merit goes around in a small number of users.

I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification.

What's your take LoyceV?

[LoyceV]

.....
I'll make you a deal acarli: if you (and this offer is only valid for you) post links to 10 unmerited good posts in this topic, I'll merit them if I agree. And I'll comment on the "why". When you post the links, please quote (the relevant part of) this post so I receive a notification.

Thank you LoyceV. I've only three so far. I wasn't quite sure if you meant any other threads in the "meta" forum. I'll go with this specific topic. So far, I would give merit tp 2 posts for sure, and a solid maybe on the third.

I meant any post, not only from this thread. I had read those three posts already, and didn't merit any of them, so I'm not going to do that now.
The thread stays a lot more compact if you post links to the posts instead of quoting the full posts.

[suchmoon]

cryptohunter : firstly he gives good quality information that is not readily obvious.

Except the numbers are off by orders of magnitude. That's the opposite of quality, especially considering that the whole subsequent argument is built on those wrong numbers.

There are ~25k users who received merits. So "top 0.02% of merit receivers cycle over 50% of their merit between them" would mean that the top 5 merit receivers (theymos, satoshi, LoyceV, hilariousetc, Last of the V8s) sent 50% of their merits between them. There is plenty of data on the Meta board (threads by DdmrDdmr, LoyceV, Piggy just to mention a few) to prove that false. Just poking around on BPIP can show you that e.g. satoshi is hoarding all his merits and not sending to anyone.