Bitcoin Forum

Here we will discuss MPEx, and the securities listed there.

I have noticed since the banning of the MPOE-PR account, there has been little of the news from MPEx making its way onto this forum. Some people who get most of their bitcoin information from this forum might not know the latest developments in the world of bitcoin finance. I will try to post here whenever something new is introduced on MPEx, like the recent addition of the DERP class of derivatives (http://trilema.com/2014/introducing-the-d-series/), or War of Life (http://mpex.ws/?mpsic=S.WOL).

This is meant to be a fairly open thread, feel free to discuss any aspect of MPEx which interests you.
 

Wait, what?

They got banned ages ago.

Whats it cost to trade on mpex these days ? Still 30BTC or what ever the initial retarded price was ?

Serious questions for the OP

1. Why would anyone want to trade on a sketchy website run by a romanian egomaniac who only cares about increasing his own massive stash of btc?

2. Why would anyone want to trade on an exchange which is openly manipulated by the exchange owner?

3. Why would anyone want to use an exchange which makes most of its money from recruiting new members? (see referral scheme)

4. Why would anyone want to trade "synthetic stocks" which are essentially open ponzi schemes?

5. Why would anyone want to trade any of the stocks gambling instruments on mpex? I'd honestly like to know which one you (or anyone who uses mpex) think has value.

There is a reason you don't see mpex mentioned here. For one it is an extremely complicated and well designed scam. The other reason is that there is literally zero value on any stock/instrument offered on the site.

There is no value created on mpex, only gambling and stealing money from noobs. (could be wrong if s.nsa finally made those useless hardware gpg things by now)

The only reason anyone might want to use mpex is because you know that the stocks will never go down in value as long as mircea is manipulating them how he wants.

You can also use a broker (that's what I do, see link in my sig :) )

So you're really only here to make money by advertising your affiliate links correct?

You are focusing on the stocks, but there are also funds and futures available.

Mircea Popescu seems very intent on increasing his bitcoin stash, but at least to me he seems to be doing so in an honest way. MPEx has history, they have been around longer than any other bitcoin stock market. While this does not ensure they will not run away with the money tomorrow, it at least shows they are thinking in the long term. If you believe that the future of global finance is going to work through bitcoins, then in the long run it is better to run a working exchange than to scam a few bitcoins now.

Do you have any proof that the exchange is manipulated?

I won't go into my analysis of each stock right now, but I think there is value in each stock listed; perhaps not what they are currently trading at, but still non-zero.

WRT point 4, synthetic stocks, are you referring to the D series of stocks? I wouldn't call them ponzi schemes, but they appear to be naked shorts. Personally, I would not buy them, for the twofold reason that it is risky to get into buying naked shorts (and I am not that risk tolerant), and more importantly, I do not think any of those companies will return invested capital (So in that respect I view these companies from the same side as Mircea, who is shorting them).

Nah, I am here to have a friendly conversation about a topic that interests me: bitcoin investments.

MPEX has no value and has been/continues to burden the community.

Lol, don't worry, bro!  Judging by your ace "investment" choices, you can not now, nor will you ever, afford the 30 BTC entry fee.
It will never be a burden *to you* so go back to pimping the MARVELOUS SCHLICHTER BROTHERS :D

The funds are just as much if not more of a joke. MPIF is less of an investment fund and more like mirceas gambling fund.

The only real benefit of the fund is that they will be betting on bitbet.us which, as a result of owning the site, they determine the outcome to their stacked bets (find some house created bets if you don't believe they are unfairly worded or stacked.)

It's also strange that TAT is involved considering he was partially responsible for one of the biggest bitcoin scams yet (neobee)


Havelock and mpex are both only ~2 years old which is not nearly long enough to establish trust/competence for either. Neither have been independently audited and neither are properly registered with a securities agency.

However I would have to disagree with the idea that mircea is earning his btc in an honest way. The biggest source of revenue for mpex was the option trading bot which was very efficient at ripping off noobs who are bad at gambling and the second biggest source (now the biggest) is the referral scheme. You pay 30BTC and get back 10 btc per refferal (5btc to referrer and 5btc to referred). Just like your affiliate link this gives people the motivation to perpetuate the scam.


Well there's this "S.MPIF liquidity. Obviously as a freely traded asset, S.MPIF may trade for values other than its calculated NAV. ThickAsThievesiii has a 50 BTC piggy bank on MPEx which he can’t withdraw, but will use to try and extract a profit out of providing liquidity" and "IV. As far as equity is concerned, I intend to slowly sell the remainder 40% of non-controlling S.MPOE interest that I currently own"

If you watch the order book for a while you will notice that it looks like very few people if any are trading and it mostly consists of a moving wall (most likely a bot) of ~10 bids/asks. It looks so unnatural is is a joke. I can't prove that all of the trading on mpex is fake but I'm pretty sure the majority of it is. Look at the volume of every other stock and compare it to s.mpoe. How do you explain the fact that s.mpoe ALWAYS has ~20,000 btc trading volume each month and every other stock/fund/future combined has ~10btc/month?

How can you explain the fact that s.mpoe share price never falls despite the lack of revenue? My theory is that mircea is trading with himself to keep the volume and share price high. He would have an incentive to do so because he owns 75% of the shares and 80% of mpex revenue is from recruiting new people to pay the 30btc fee. (last 3 months mpoe had 460btc profit total, 360 btc from new account fees alone)


I agree. They do have some value but not much.

S.nsa is an incompetent hardware manufacturer (Not even a prototype after a year?) and s.mg looks like a joke. You would think that with ~$5,000,000 in funding the game would look better than runescape classic.

Bitbet.us is somehow valued at 5000 btc even though they earned a staggering 200btc in the past 1.5 years, 75btc of which came from stealing late bets which were not confirmed before the bet was closed (which is illegal however you look at it). If bitbet was listed on any other exchange I'd guess it would be valued at ~500-1000btc.

S.mpoe is the worst of them all. Nearly no sources of revenue other than new accounts and the fees that mircea generates when he trades with himself (doesn't matter to him because he gets back 75% anyways)

Actually, TAT is not involved in MPIF. Originally he was invited, but he declined. That position was given instead to Jurov.

I think that's because they take all your money up front, and then use it to manipulate the prices to make you think there is actually some value or demand there.  There are so many fees involved in every action, trading on mpex is like voluntarily walking into quicksand and trying to grow taller to stay alive.

i dunno, i feel MP & co are quite upstream with that decentralized platform & using WOT. not considering the value of stocks et al., just this manner of implementing such exchange, by contrast with havelocks. and i kinda like the attitude too, + he's been right about errthing so far: TBF, Gox, fools.. ;D

Re, OP - word is mpex engine's undergoing the first major overhaul since ever.  the site is down while changing, so here is the FAQ (https://github.com/fawuxi/mpex/blob/master/FAQ.html) for anyone unfamiliar, also answers your question about why so few use or discuss it: affordability and most blokes are too chickenshit or just plain lazy to learn how to register and trade on it.


not sure exactly what you consider value; according to blockrecords, there are many thousands of bitcoin worth of value contained in the exchange

1.  so you would rather trade on a service run by an egomaniac from serbia or hungary who is trying to reduce the # of btc he holds.  I don't think you want to deal with the hungarians, those people are fuking savages.

2. and you would rather trade on exchange thats anonymously manipulated.  it shouldn't make any difference i rekon.

3. don't all stock exchanges charge their users all kinds of service and usage fees...  I mean how else would anysuch services continue to exist?  

4. Of course I reject your premises, but there are all kinds of synthetic markets&securities available to traders.   I can confirm the companies and associated services or products listed on the emporium do exist and work as described.  i can do more cursory auditing of all the figures and transactions reported than I can with any other exchange in the world.

5. SDice seems to have sufficient value to gain attention from an agency lady (http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/). I believe it was at some point the highest valued publicly held btc company (other than mpex itself).

what evidence can you demonstrate showing mp securities represent anything but the exact value reported down to a satoshi? Its all quite open and auditable with blockexploration and such.

At the very least, mpoe is the only company touting sufficient and reliable methods for not completely blowing security to the extent all other cryptocoin businesss currently do and will continue into foreseeable future.

http://www.troll.me/images/meanwhile-in-hungary-2/meanwhile-in-hungary-police-are-on-duty.jpg

Is that what mircea tells you?

That's is like saying nobody joins scientology because people are "too lazy to learn". It's simply bullshit and sounds exactly like an excuse mircea would make up.

The reason nobody uses mpex is because it is a joke plain and simple. If it was useful and not a scam, they wouldn't need to use a referral scheme with massive rewards to perpetuate it.

Look at havelock for example, sure it may consist of 99% shitty stocks, but people use it because it is useful and works well. Not because they are paid X amount of money from recruiting Y amount of idiots.


Can I see the block records? I've never seen publicly verifiable records regarding mpex. Especially nothing to suggest that the ~20K btc traded per month does not only consist of mircea trading with himself.


You seem to think having an exchange run by an egomaniac is required. Fun fact: It's not.

Outside of mirceas cult of financiology his behavior would be completely unacceptable for a CEO of a company "worth" ~$500m.


Again, neither. Why is stock manipulation acceptable to you?


No it's not. NYSE and other legitimate exchanges earn money from the services they provide.

Mpex earns money via a referral scheme (and a tiny bit from their service). Referral schemes have been used for decades to advertise scams because they simply work.


Nope. Asicminer has given out more in dividends than satoshidice was sold for. And the revenue from satoshidice was weak at best.

But even asicminer is not valued anywhere near s.mpoe. Even though AM has given out more than 10 times as much btc from dividends, it is still valued 1/10th that of s.mpoe.


Can you show me the publicly verifiable info? Can you prove that the trading does not consist almost entirely of mirceas stock manipulation?

Do you honestly believe the values of mpex stocks are at all representative of their worth?

Please explain:

MPOE: 1.7% annual yield
BBET: 1.7%
NSA: 0%
MG: 0%

I know that you will probably just say that mpex consists of only the most bullish "investors" who don't care the slightest about the companies Mirceas ability to bring in revenue/profit and you could be right.

I just want to know why stocks on mpex are traded at less than 2% yearly return. There is no reasonable explanation other than stock manipulation.

Investing 101 says that a stock should be valued relative to the amount of profit it can possibly generate. Is there any way possible that mpoe generates 1 million btc? What about half that amount? Can they even earn 1/10th of that in their lifetime?

If by "works well" you mean impoverishing its "investors" [that would be u], while providing Teh Community with free lel, then i'd say it works exceptionally well.
Re. "99% shitty stocks":  Currently it consists of 100% shitty stocks, as explained here.[/quote]

  ~Happy investing! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=666993.0)

100% shitty stocks is not true because AM and BDD have been successful.

Yes, AM shares were listed on havelock immediately following the peak of the bubble but just about all of the shares were transferred from direct shares and as you know AM has already paid its investors $300 for every share which cost $1 during IPO.

Would you care so much about havelock if they charged a huge registration fee with some sort of recruitment scheme and market manipulation?

According to mircea, the biggest mistake AM made was not listing on his exchange and I think he might be right.

Could you imagine how much AM stock would be worth if it was listed on mpex? Would it be worth 10 times the value of s.mpoe because it has yielded 10 times the amount of dividends? That would mean AM would be worth 8,000,000 btc.

if only :'(

thats why mpex isnt that bad, with the fee, you dont get noobs exchanging couple shares and drop the price like mad because they cant handle couple months without news/divs.

AM has been failing spectacularly since its listing on Havelock.  Like so:

http://s21.postimg.org/qxfglb9ef/Capture.jpg

If something was awesome before coming to Havelock and turned into a bag of dicks right after being listed, well...  Not sure just how well that speaks of Havelock. :D

BDD is not a security but a game, as the issuer will gladly and honestly tell you.  If you chose to see it as a security, disregarding the issuer's claim, it becomes a failure due to it being a ((zero-sum) - (fees)) game.  twentyseventy charges a fee for running the game, a perfectly justified one.

It doesn't seem worth debating further as your argument is clearly emotional, irrational heresay.  

I asked if you could demonstrate a shred of evidence to support your claims of mpex impropriety.

Those charts are listed in btc -which has obviously endured a meteoric rise over the last few years..so ANY btc priced asset will display downward trend as its valuation adjusts to fiat market prices...unless the security were to have some impossible trajectory exceeding bitcoin's surge in value..which is quite unlikely.

If you wish to understand actual valuations  for stocks listed in btc, you need to do a bit of calculus.

Or is it because you have nothing to say? I honestly want to know what makes you think it's a good idea to use mpex.

I don't need to demonstrate my claims of impropriety because you are perfectly capable of visiting trilema.com yourself.

Mpex is just a really complicated game mircea invented so he can convince people who lack any knowledge of real world finance to fork over their money. And it's clearly paid off.


You mean like how mpex increased in value when revenue decreased and the value of btc increased?

Every bitcoin stock took a hit due to bitcoins surge in value besides any stock listed on mpex.

Mpex is one of those things that when it all goes to shit and mircea packs up his bags to go live on some tropical island, everyone who "invested" will be surprised that their money is all gone but everyone else will just say no shit.

What happened to S.Minigame
Think it has updates on trilema but curious about it now. Eulora is still progressing etc.

BTC is the unit of account.  If you feel it is unlikely for any security to keep pace with this "meteoric rise," the obvious choice is keeping your coin in a paper wallet.
It's idiotic to invest 10 BTC, expecting to get back only 1.  Just like it's idiotic to invest $10 to get back $1.  Regardless of dollar/btc rate.

Re. "meteoric rise":

http://s2.postimg.org/clc46oisp/Capture.jpg
A pictorial representation, YTD :)

You don't need to do calculus to know that more btc it better than less btc. If you bought the stock for 1 btc when the price was $300, and sold it for .5 when the price was $1k, you made $200, but it was a bad decision because you could have made $800 by literally doing nothing.

AM's best days are behind it, s.mpoe has a potential for huge future growth. As they say, past performance does not guarantee future success.

Why does AM have less potential for growth? As time goes on and bitcoin becomes more valuable both companies should depreciate in value.

If mpex has so much potential then why has only 1 company ever listed on the exchange since its inception more than 2 years ago? (excluding companies mircea owns)

How can mpex be "valued" at ~1/10th of all bitcoins in circulation when practically nobody uses the exchange?

AM is valued at ~60k btc because that is what people think the company might return in dividends in its lifetime and it's not too unreasonable (AM would only have to mine 0.7% of the remaining 8m btc)

Mpoe is valued at 800k btc because without a continuously increasing value, it would be impossible to convinced people to jump in the quicksand.

I don't think anyone (outside the cult of bitcoin-assets) believes that mpex will touch 800k individual bitcoins let alone profit that much.

If mircea opened a lemonade stand and sold 5 cups of lemonade for $2.50 then his lemonade company would be worth several thousand according to mpex investor logic.

AsicMiner was lucky to be basically the first company to produce a working ASIC. But now there are many more people in the market and they just can't repeat the success they had before. Do they even give out dividends anymore?

On the one hand you are focusing way too much on dividend, you should be looking at earnings instead, and on the other hand mining will yield more than 8m btc in the future (due to fees). Overall, the estimate is that mining rewards will go down in the future, while there is no such restriction for trading fees.

Based on historical examples, MP's lemonade stand would raise several thousand. In your example, it would then sell 5 cups of lemonade for $2.50. And then it would be worth several thousand (plus $12.50 - whatever ingredients cost), because it would still have several thousand bitcoins on hand.

Why can MPOE repeat the success it had when bitcoin was worth $5 a piece?

There have been hundreds of new bitcoin companies in the two years and many of them have publicly traded stocks/IPOs.

Why do people think MPEX has potential when literally nobody wants to list their company on the exchange?


There is no "restriction" on transaction fees either. Theoretically asicminer could end up with every single bitcoin in existence if they mine all the new ones and earn all the other btc from sales/transaction fees.

Why does AM have less potential when they are currently pumping out massive amounts of hardware?

Compare that to MPEX which currently has ~10btc worth of trading volume per month (excluding s.mpoe manipulation/inflation), has zero non-MP-owned companies, and a dysfunctional/insecure exchange which has been offline for weeks now.

Could you imagine if the NYSE or NASDAQ went offline for weeks? I guess it wouldn't really matter if they had no stocks and less than $6,000 trading volume per month.


MPOE raised 30,000 btc during IPO when btc was $5 each and gave out ~30k btc in divs for a total of 60K btc. How does touching 60k btc translate to a company worth 800k?

A better example would be if MP opened a lemonade stand, raised 20 bucks for supplies and sold 5 bucks worth of lemonade, 10 bucks worth of ice, 5 bucks from cup fees, and is now worth several thousand because technically he could sell 10 cups of lemonade to every lemonade drinker in the world some time in the future.

And now he has convinced people that his lemonade stand is sure to blossom in to a lemonade empire and that the worst thing anyone could do with their money is not giving it to him.

Dear Mr Mothy, or may I call you Jim?

I am very grateful to you for displaying your stupidity in such an open fashion. It is terribly comforting to know that the one detractor here is nearly as stupid as me.

Now could you explain to me please why you don't read the logs? All your answers are there, after all. Or, wait, are you pretending not to read them?

Oh, as I write, it all becomes clear. You know full well that the stock exchange has been back up for ages and you've been buying and/or selling like billy-o, all the time trying to keep forumites away.

Cunning, if cutthroat.

And blaming Mr Popescu for the massive volume would be all just you covering your very considerable tracks.

Well, gosh, please forgive me; you're rapidly becoming my new bitlord, and the Goldman Sachs of this world who send sell signals but buy behind others' backs, well, they could truly learn from your good self.

I remain, in awe

What are these logs you speak of and what does it answer?

But you're right, this "stock exchange" which no company has considered using since its birth is totally worth 1/10th of all bitcoins.

It's only a matter of time before mpex is "valued" more than all bitcoins combined.

No, you're quite right. Let's pretend I was talking about Phinnaeus' barn logs; and war of life - shh. No facts should be publicised lest they interfere with your stategies. ;)

I honestly want to know what "facts" your talking about.

Also if you could include a source with your witty response that would be nice.

It's War of Life (https://btc.waroflife.com/), Jim, but not as we know it.  ;)

Love that game.

Hope for an early release

That's good news
Will have something to play with soon then  ;)
Hopefully if it is early

gosh, i thought this post would have a dozen pages from notlambchop shitting all over how scammy MPEX's hosted offerings were

For the Nth time: 

1.  I know nothing of MPEx beyond the fact that it has a self-imposed 30BTC barrier to entry.  Those who can afford to spend that amount just for a seat at the table either know what they are doing, or have an extremely well-defended psychosis, one I'd be unlikely to alter.

2.  I also do not comment on CriptoTrade, CryptoStocks, MexTexBits, assrape.me and many other "exchanges."
Ain't nobody got time for dat.

For the Nth time, you can use a broker to avoid paying the 30BTC registration fee. Do you also refuse to trade stocks listed on the NYSE because you don't want to pay the $1M (currently about 1750 BTC) it would cost to get a seat on that exchange?

I have explained why I do not comment on MPEx.  Unlike Havelock, where an email addy and a few Satoshi are the only prerequisites to trading, investment aficionados must employ an intermediary--a broker--to deal with MPEx.  Just like Joe Sixpack must deal with NYSY through a brokerage.  The workings of the hand reaching into Joe Sixpack's pocket are my main interest.
If you wish, I could research the brokerage firms dealing with MPEx.
Feel free to post links and success stories :-\

Let's compare MPEX to the NYSE.

Age: 2 years vs ~200 years.

Market Cap*: $240,000 vs $16,000,000,000,000

Yearly trading volume*: Less than $100,000 vs more than $20,000,000,000,000

Number of listings*: 1 vs 1875

Number of seats: ~1000 and counting vs 1366

Price for a seat: $18,000 (7% of market cap) vs ~$1,000,000 (0.000006%)

Determining seat price: arbitrary vs supply/demand

Reward for convincing someone to buy a seat: $6,000 vs $0

Requires a seat to trade directly on the exchange: Yes vs no

Brokers: Some guy who set up a website in an afternoon vs several multibillion dollar financial institutions.

*excludes stocks MP/NYSE created/owns.

golden rule- never shit on your own doorstep)

Seriously...  If notlambchop isn't being paid by mpex to troll, then that is one sad individual.

i'd just think he is one of them. trolling here and there in btctalk as if he get bored sometimes in #bitcoin-asset.. ;D

How's that IPO going, hdbuck?
Think Benny will manage to weasel another twenty bits from Bitcoiners by the end of next month?
Will some TLA own his ass before or after IPO's end?
Which TLA will it be?
Will Benny betray Branny in exchange for leniency?

Bitcointalk.
               We Know Drama.

@OgNasty:  I still can't get over how you trained your "fans" to think they're making money by losing money.
And all this over the intertubes, without the assistance of powerful modern pharma?  You rock.

wuut?! take it easy man :D
so who are you in #bitcoin-asset?! i mean whats your name there? i must have strike a chord here.. ^^
but i have nothing against MPex nor did i ever did some sort of IPO ???

^Sorry, mistook you for one of the HASH kids.  Set out to bilk Bitcoiners out of 1,100 BTC.  Up to 7-point-something in three days, including the pump.

Actually the incentive is whatever you can convince someone to pay for your existing seat. On the NYSE a seat is just another saleable asset.


Actually the answer is Yes on both. Without at seat at the NYSE you don't get to interact directly with the Beast.

Unlike NYSE seats, Mpex seats are nothing more than a referral/moneymaking scheme.

With NYSE you couldn't convince 5 investonomers to buy a seat and make serious money by doing so. You could only sell your own seat. You have no incentive to sell seats/recruit new members.

Unlike MPEX, when a seat is sold on the NYSE the money doesn't go directly to the exchange owners pocket.


Nope. Seats no longer exist on the NYSE and you can trade directly on the exchange with a one year license for $40,000. That is only twice as expensive as a seat on mpex and you get a bit more than twice as much for your money.

Mpex is 0.0000015% the size of the NYSE (market cap) so if the trading license was scaled evenly it would cost literally $ 0.0006 USD per seat (100 satoshis).

If NYSE had equally exorbitant trading fees as Mpex it would be $1.3 trillion per trading license or 30 million times the current price.

From the latest MPEx report (http://"http://trilema.com/2014/mpex-smpoe-july-2014-statement/"), F.DERP should finally be listed this month. There is also an upcoming listing of an advertising network.

Oh, and MPEx made a bunch of money, most of it from new signups. The low trading volume is probably due to the week they were offline rebuilding their servers.

710 BTC from new accounts?! gee.

Are we supposed to care about the ponzi listings and an advertising network that will no doubt be invented/ran by MP?


Is anyone surprised that the referral scheme is still the main source of revenue? And no, the incredibly low trading volume has persisted since mpex was invented.

Serious question: Why do you insist on using the joke/scam which is Mpex? If all Mpex does is pretend to be the NYSE, then why not just use the NYSE?

How can you suggest it's a good idea to use a sketchy exchange which charges 30 million times as much as the NYSE for a trading license to trade practically zero stocks?

Or was I right that this thread is just a way to advertise your referral links?

If you don't care, you can just stop posting in this thread. Those of us who do care will not miss you.

On the topic of advertising, it will be interesting to see how this new company does. On the one hand, it seems like a natural use of bitcoins to pay for internet stuff, like advertising, on the other hand advertising can be a tough market, most people have banner blindness and just ignore whatever ads they "see" on webpages.

I don't think MPex is going to last much longer honestly.

Do you have any reasoning behind this opinion? I don't think anything has changed negatively for the exchange, why would they shut down?

Amount of offerings
Type of offerings
Price to get started

Why would anyone pay that crazy fee to trade on that exchange with limited offerings?

Maybe not shutter but as you have seen they are slowly fading away.

Quite the opposite of what you are suggesting, they have been adding new offerings the past few months. To me, it looks like they are growing, not fading away.

If you're going to conveniently ignore the several elephants in the room what's the point of having a discussion?

I honestly want to know what could possibly justify a trading licence that is 30 million times more expensive than the NYSE.

Seems like you've drank the koolaid and there's no turning back.

Do you have any other arguments besides the 30 btc registration? I already addressed that: I use a broker, I have never paid a 30 btc fee to trade.

What you call a broker is just some guy who paid the 30btc and made a website in a few hours. I can't even find any contact information like a name or business address. Do you know where I can find it?

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the fact that the registration fees are nothing more than a money making scheme. The exchange has no revenue other than from new recruits which is the definition of a ponzi.


http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

lel. website != exchange. glbse, bitfunder, btctc and havelock were/is a website/s.
you do not need to visit mpex website to use the exchange.

I think he was referring to the CoinBR website. It is true it does not list a name and address, but it does have an email and an IRC nick (which is associated with a gpg identity in the WoT (http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=jurov&sign=ANY&type=RECV)) which you can contact for more details.

The July S.NSA statement is impressive in just so many ways. http://trilema.com/2014/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2014-statement/ (http://trilema.com/2014/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2014-statement/)

Clearly they are busy doing something, and they still have a ton of capital, but they have no revenue after so many months. I feel like they are trying to reinvent the wheel, while they have enough money in the bank that they could just buy whatever they wanted. I guess it is better to hold onto the money and be careful than like so many other bitcoin companies who spend all their money and disappear.

Well, consider their product mission. Sometime the reinvented wheel is the safest, and as much as Stan would have rather reinvented Lisp machine he ended up going with MIPS.

Seems information about the Advertising network is trickling out: http://trilema.com/2014/the-twinheaded-announcer-announces/ (http://trilema.com/2014/the-twinheaded-announcer-announces/)

http://van-ads.com/ (http://van-ads.com/)

How did I know that this "advertising company" would be created/operated by the grandpuppetmaster himself?

MP needs to keep inventing companies to make it seem like his exchange has some sort of value because no real company would even consider listing there.

When will you guys catch on?

Actually the advertising company was made by Ben Vulpes (http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=ben_vulpes), a person who like Mircea uses their IRL name.

Other than S.MG seems less Him inventing companies and more, him giving other people the opportunity to invent companies to either their peril (BitVPS's first listing) or success (Satoshi Dice, S.NSA (Making progress with an incredibly low burn rate, guy is amazingly the right kind of paranoid (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=448) for this cause while using his real IRL name as well)). Maybe I've drunk the kool-aid, but it has Rum in it.

Lets be fair here, Satoshi Dice is not listed on MPEx right now, not to mention they got fined by the SEC over it. I would not call that a success.

The only asset really getting any volume is the exchange itself. Their volume is so fake its like shitting a brick and telling someone its a brick of gold. Not to mention that their site is currently down right now...

Not to mention that Mircea either pays / operates several accounts on this forum that are known trolls. Why would you trust your money with a troll? I would rather trust my funds with Cryptostocks than MPEx  ::)
Their site also needs an update... For 30BTC a head you would expect something looking a little nicer than a 1990's era UI

But MPEx is exactly and only where S.Dice was IPO'd and exactly not what Erik was fined for (that was the earlier GLBSE security based on his Twitter parasite).


Seems to be up now here, but the point is that it emphasizes being a platform over a site. The www portion could be censored to hell, but the beast can function so long as the trading engine offers access.


What you'd rather trust a nice doge coiner with slick modern Ajax and see the underlying sink from 300 satoshis per to 35? That critics are mean is not a useful counter critique (http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/04/malpidity/).

For the record Mircea has paid many reliably many times before for a number of purposes, but not for posting on this forum.

I will conceed though that I interact with MPEx through Coinbr (if I do at all) simply because I won't admit to having the 600+ BTC it would take to make a direct license worthwhile. Mircea creates a space around himself through MPEx and other tools where people can act sanely according to principles Bitcoin supports. That is the value of the enterprise.

Make sure you are going to the right site, the new website is mpex.ws (http://mpex.ws).


Well, they did in the past employ MPOE-PR to post on this forum. But that was an open arrangement know to all.

now he pays to see tities (http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/) ;D

PFFT
That is something else but 0.1 BTC for a pair of them should just find girlsforbitcoins :D
F** mean thanks for sharing lol.

Sharing tits from all over the world.
Great company though ;D

Does anyone send money to these scammers?

Newbies beware.

The point is not to see some tits, the point is to attract girls into #bitcoin-assets, and force them to start using bitcoin and gpg and IRC and such.

Yes, newbies should always check into things thoroughly, especially when it involves sending bitcoins.

Unlike so many other places asking for bitcoins, the people in this case have a presence in the WoT, so it is easy to check up on them. Just find the people who have rated them in the WoT, and verify the history. If you do not trust any of the raters in the WoT, check their trust by asking their raters, until you find someone you do trust (that is how the WoT works). If you have not interacted with any of these WoT nodes, then do not send any bitcoins. Instead, get involved in bitcoin and check back later (bitcoin is still so small, it should not take long for your trust web to expand to include major players such as the people running and listed on MPEx).

WoT is a gimmick just like GPG. 99.9% of bitcoin businesses don't take it seriously.

It does the same thing as the forum trust system.

Do you really think WoT prevents scammers? If anything it does the opposite.

GPG is a gimmick? What, you can crack encrypted messages now?

No. GPG is very useful for some applications.

It is completely unnecessary for a trust system and a stock exchange.

Why do you think no real stock exchanges use gpg?

What problem is it solving?

You never know, it might all change one day. the same way bitcoin is going to change the financial world, PGP could be a useful tool for it in the future too. What's with this pretention of knowing what will or wont be a success? They guy is experimenting a new kind of exchange, let him be, it's worth the experience I think.

You're right pgp could be useful in the future but as of now everyone seems to be doing fine without it.

You miss the point of PGP / GPG. First: it probably won't be useful in the future, cryptography moves and advances. Nonetheless, GPG as it is used today is NOT use primarily as a means of encryption. There are plenty of tools that are more performant, more efficient, and arguably more cryptographically secure. GPG's primary purpose is a means of confirming one's identity.

A similar role is served by sites employing DNSSEC to confirm the validity of an A record: it is a means of confirming that that (barring some sort of exceptionally advanced or esoteric attack) you are indeed talking to the server for whatever.domain.you.specified.com. It's a way of confirming the identity for that FQDN.

Traditional stock exchanges, such as the NYSE, have evolved from ancient analog systems, so a lot of this infrastructure (whereby the authenticity of orders is confirmed) is based on the equipment of those brokerages / seat holders being close to the NYSE's tin. An exchange such as MPEX is not evolving from pen-and-paper, so it has instead chosen to take advantage of the system that is one of the most secure and renowned for identity verification over the Internet. It's not perfect, it has nuances and failings of its own, but it's just as cryptographically sound as the NYSE's "please put your box next to ours and run a fibre cable into the jack at the back" solution.

PS. You seem to be a fan of hyperbole, especially with your NYSE comparison. Ironically you fail to take the effect of time into your puerile vitriol. By comparison: if a competitor to Facebook sprung up 2 years ago, would it have 1.32 billion active monthly users by now? Historicity leads to a network effect which creates the companies and organisations we know today. Comparing an organisation with nearly 2 centuries of history with one that has been around for only a few is silly and beyond idiotic, especially since the global paradigms they are operating within are so vastly different. I used to think you were more intelligent than you have proven yourself to be, Jimbo.

That's what I thought it did. Is there currently a problem with people forging/using fake identities that I'm not aware of?


Where is the hyperbole? An mpex trading license is literally 30 million times more expensive than the NYSE.


You mean like google+? 3 years old and already half a billion users.

How long do you think it will take before a legitimate company lists on mpex? (Not talking about one man operations or MP co-owned companies)


How do you explain the fact that mpex is asking half of what the NYSE is asking for a trading license yet is several million times smaller in both market cap and trading volume?

Why can't mpex pretend to be like the NYSE without a referral scheme and with less exorbitant trading license fees?

PGP/GPG has a WoT where you can sign someone's key with yours, indicating trust.

eg. mine is here: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x7455C5E3C0CDCEB9

Peter Todd's is a more extreme example: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x7FAB114267E4FA04

So that destroys many of the regular Sybil attack vectors. The bigger issue is that initialisation, where you and the person you're dealing with need to securely exchange keys. So a simple method may be to email your key fingerprint or your entire ASCII-armored public key, and then phone/Skype/IRC/whatever to confirm the fingerprint of the received key. A lot of key exchanges nowadays are done in real life, which then serves as a protection for all future communication between those two parties.


The NYSE only recently (2006) switched to annual licenses, a different model from the "trading seat" model they had previously. Because seats were forever (as with MPEX), there was a vigorous and small market where seats could be bought from brokerages that were getting out. In 2005, seats sold for $1 million - $5 million. The NYSE press release that details the shift to annual licenses (http://www1.nyse.com/press/1135856420824.html) is a good read if you want to learn about the history of it. I couldn't find an inflation adjustment calculator that could go back to the 1860s (when seats sold for $4 000), but in the early 1900s they were selling for $80 000, which is $2 million when adjusted for inflation. This makes the NYSE's seat cost at any point in its history 55x - 277x more expensive than MPEX.

Even now that the NYSE has switched to an annual license model, their fee is $40 000 per year (as confirmed on their trading license application form (http://www1.nyse.com/pdfs/NYSE-Trading_License_Forms.pdf)). This is still more than double MPEX's lifetime seat cost, and every year you'd have to renew it, widening that gap and making the NYSE's trading license more and more relatively expensive. I also think that this makes rational sense as it is, as MPEX doesn't have the historicity and caliber that the NYSE does, nor does it have listings that are anywhere close to the size of those listed on the NYSE. But this is perfectly fine - by the time Bitcoin is worth ~$33 300, MPEX's seat fee will be around $1 million, and we should expect that the listings will be somewhere around the caliber and size of listings the NYSE had in the early 1900s. In other words, the seat fee right now is commensurate with the size of the exchange, and that's perfectly fine.


It's hard to say - MPEX only appeals to startups involved in the Bitcoin space. Traditional startups have traditional VC funding routes, and larger companies have larger domestic exchanges they can use. A more likely scenario than a "legitimate" company listing on MPEX is that something like Van Ads or MiniGames is a rousing success, and that is a catalyst for other "legitimate" companies.


Well as demonstrated above that is provably incorrect, they have an incredibly low seat fee, one that is commensurate with their small size and volume.

A seat would mean there are a limited amount and you can sell your own seat. On mpex you can buy a "seat" and sell unlimited seats to other naive investonomers.

Because mpex is 60 million times smaller* than NYSE, shouldn't an NYSE trading license be $1.2 trillion? Even a 100 year trading license would be $12 billion.

Why is it that mpoe is the only bitcoin asset that does not depreciate when bitcoin appreciates? I could understand if they held a significant amount of BTC, but they don't. MPOE doesn't hold anywhere near 800k btc.

*not including MP co-owned companies.


Sure one of MP's companies could be a success, but we have yet to see a single shred of evidence suggesting he can run a company and/or turn a profit. Sure, we know he can collect massive trading license fees and create a decent options robot to take money from shitty gamblers but running an actual company has yet to be seen.

So far we've seen:

S.MG, a videogame company which looks like a 1 man operation + MP with ~$5,000,000 and none of it has been spent on developing the game. The game looks like a pre-alpha version of runescape classic at best. Unless they completely stop what they are doing and hire a competent game development team I don't see how this game can be a success.

S.NSA is another 1 man +MP operation with a bunch of money but nothing to show for a years worth of work.

VanAds looks to be yet another 1 man + MP operation which is basically a clone of adbit.co.

S.WoL is the 5000th gambling site to be invented and for some reason needed 500btc to run their site, but I do have to give them credit for not being co-owned by MP.


Your argument is basically "if BTC increases and mpex becomes the most popular/successful exchange THEN it's underpriced". Yes and if neobee springs back to life and offers an incredible service I'm sure there is a possibility that they earn billions.

Fact is that MPOEs revenue completely dropped off when they removed the options market/bot but according to the share price nobody cares that dividends (which were already small to begin with) are now a tiny fraction of what they used to be.

I don't know how you can say with a straight face that it's not absurd for an exchange to charge 7% of their noninflated market cap for a trading license. 94% of the mpoe's revenue for the past 6 months came from recruiting new investonomers.

It is painfully obvious that the "seats" are nothing more than a moneymaking scheme. It's a combination of a ponzi and pyramid scheme. I think they should call it the popescu scheme.

S.WoL is co-owned by MP.

You didn't mention BitBet (also co-owned by MP), they have a functioning website which does thousands of bitcoins of traffic and turns a profit most months.

There are numerous reports saying bitbet scammed users.

Also, gambling is a low profile business preying on people with mental issues. I'm not sure how can it be mentioned as some kind of achievement.

FTFY

Sore losers are always going to complain. You will find such 'reports' of no value for any gambling site that does actual traffic.

Also (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2014#787296).

Just because you included a rule that says you can steal peoples money doesn't make it legal. If a bet is not confirmed in time it has to be returned. You (having invented such a ridiculous rule) may see nothing wrong with it but most people agree that it's BS: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0

Just because you can post to this forum doesn't mean it carries any weight.


Sez who? Jimtardo Nobody?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LXD72i-1M

It can be both after all
Mircea makes a good politician ^_^

___
But you know if they can do all that they can make more than just showing their tits lol.

Ah, but for some people showing tits is just another profession

http://sexysaffron.com/ (http://sexysaffron.com/) << That's the subject of that article on bespoke porn for Bitcoin floating around.

Actually i have to say i have much respect for MP and his fellas. They seem not to give a shit about "political correctness" and that's exactly why they deserve my attention.

Plus they seems to know a great deal about bitcoin's various problematics and other political/economical/technological matters. Just pop up in their IRC channel and ask for anything, they are quite open actually - altought a little bit teasing but eh that's the fun part of the game. I am not trading on MPex tho because this playground isnt for me as for now but I'd be glad to see it blooming in the coming years. I dont believe it will fade and i really enjoy reading their blogs, which puts bitcoin under some less mainstream garbage (http://contravex.com/). So long live the cynical pervs! :D

It is a shame MPOE-PR has been perma-banned from this forum. She/he was right about a lot of things (TBF, Gox, etc etc..), her/his inputs were highly valuable, and it was fun looking at her/him getting into arguments with "non-receptive" members :P

Latest post made me luled a lot: http://trilema.com/2014/the-finfisherfinspy-story-for-posterity/

edit: and i get it that their ego or crudeness must have had annoyed some people around. But it is the price that comes with visionnaires i guess. They know, you dont.

I cant tell if you've drank too much koolaid or if your entire post is satire.


Why would you like to see the expansion of a sketchy/scammy exchange run by a romanian egomaniac whose every action is questionable? Why do you not want a legit SEC regulated exchange or a decentralized blockchain exchange? Nevermind this ponzi-pyramid scheme is a great addition to bitcoin!


Have you actually read any number MPOE-PR's posts? This person was paid 12btc per month to spam/troll the forum with anything that could possibly link/bring traffic back to mpex.

If you look back at MPOE-PR's history you will find 75% trolling/slandering mpex competition, 23% incorrect predictions, 1% correct predictions, and 1% constructive criticism.

And MP's blog is the same shit. 99% of his blog posts can be summarized as: "HERE is why you should be giving me money". Funny how mpex is the only exchange/stock which is constantly giving investing advice. I wonder why? Maybe because without being spoon-fed nonsense, even fewer naive investonomers receptive thinkers would use mpex?


I don't think the inflated egos are the reason. I think it has more to do with the cult touting that mpex has been a significant contribution to the bitcoin ecosystem which is a blatantly false. The only thing mpex has contributed is money to MP's wallet. Mpex is nothing more than a sketchy/scammy exchange that anyone with real world financial experience would avoid touching with a 50 foot pole.

Sure MP is a visionary but only in the same way as Bernie Madoff. I have to hand it to him, he has created an incredibly efficient/effective scheme but he will have to expand beyond the irc chatroom full of bitcoin outcasts if he wants some serious cash.

Is mpex.co down? What happend?

It's now mpex.ws

Oh, I missed that.

Thank you.

@jimbo i dont have anything against you man, but you should serioulsy consider finding some other hobby than just trashing those peps. We get it that you just cant bare them, so why not just moving on now? As far as i can tell they are going to be in the picture for a lonnng time.

Im just saying these folks seems smart and provocative enough to consider their ideas, aside from all that junk coming from coindesk & co.

PS: i just connected to their IRC channel and i got some free BTC from someone i did not know (and no, i did not show my tities!!) :D
https://blockchain.info/tx/da7535933f733eb870c831d41de8678c9ddf4b2f7f2a7ebab7de534036bcb8e5

thats the spirit! :P

Funny that you say that yet completely support someone who was literally paid several BTC per month to spam/trash everything that is not mpex.

Why not addressing one of the several elephants in the room? Why is 90% of their revenue from recruiting new investonomers? Why is the exchange owner taking such a huge role in "educating" his "investors"? Why is every single company co-owned by the exchange owner?


Why don't you share some of these great ideas?

I dont care, im not paying. People do whatever they want with their money. Not my problem. Still there seem to be quite some people paying for a seat at MP's table lately. Kul for them.
+ education is cool. they sure seem to have a lot a fun altogether.


meh, go find for yourself. :P

New share up on MPEx, S.QNTR (http://mpex.ws/?mpsic=S.QNTR).

This will be shares of the company running Qntra.net (http://qntra.net), a bitcoin news website. The website is currently under heavy DDOS, but they are in the process of setting up a dedicated server, which should allow them to be back up again soon.

Speaking of which, the DDOS is from a hole in the standard wordpress setup, if you are running wordpress on your site, please fix the pingback hole.

The shares will be used as payment to the authors who write articles for the website. If you are interested in being a bitcoin reporter, contact Cazalla or BingoBoingo over on IRC in #bitcoin-assets (http://bitcoin-assets.com) on FreeNode.

Each month the company will issue 1 share per word to authors of articles. The company will also issue an equivalent amount of shares to the management team, so the management will always own 50% of the company. The current best bid is 0.00014 btc.

The first shares will be issued sometime between the 1st and 5th of next month.

More analysis of the future price of this asset can be found in this article on BtcScoop (http://blog.btcscoop.com/infinitely-inflating-stock-s-qntr/).

This is a great idea by MP. (Disclaimer: have done zero research and am assuming MP is still making up companies because nobody else wants to participate in his schemes)

Now he doesn't have to pay people to advertise his schemes. (He might even make money instead of spending it advertising.)

My only question is why MP chose to stick with Bitcoins.

It's clear that the Bitcoin economy and the Mircea economy basically never overlap.

Why doesn't he just create Mircea Popecoin? Or Cultcoin?

Features could include:

- no blockchain (100% trust in the hidden MPchain)
- rate of mining decided by the great MP
- for every coin that is mined/bought/sold/traded a new coin appears in Mirceas wallet.
- earn 10 MPcoins for tricking persuading a friend to buy 10 MPcoins
- each pageview on MPcointalk.org costs 1 MPcoin.

He could even creat an MPcoin exchange for maximum manipulation capabilities. Sounds like Mircea's wet dream.

I spent a good six months reading the bitcoin-assets logs. The guy who runs MPEX is a genius, but his caustic ego has destroyed his credibility. As for me and my business, I have assessed that MPEX needs me more than I need them. Besides, brick and mortar business is unlikely to do well on MPEX, and the operator is unlikely to list such anyway.

well put LOL :D

You're usagi, right?

That's the second time I have been "accused" of being usagi. And, wow, you actually have a trust rating of -535. Nevermind who I am for the moment, who the heck are you? lol

Edit:
Tried to respond to a PM this guy sent me but he's blocked my personal message. Weirdo.

FWIW here is the response:

I'm not the droids you're looking for.

I'm not really from around here, I run with the NXT crowd. I IPO'd on coinsortium (a BTC place) so I posted here, but it was a big disappointment.

Tradefortress. thief. millionnaire. http://mashable.com/2013/11/08/bitcoin-theft-tradefortress/

edit: oh wow. sharks. :D :D :D

Recently, Qntra published http://qntra.net/2014/12/summary-of-mpex-stocks-november-2014/ a review of the reports from MPEx assets.

Looks like the MPEx update is a monthly feature now at Qntra.net :

http://qntra.net/2015/02/summary-of-mpex-stocks-funds-january-2015/ (http://qntra.net/2015/02/summary-of-mpex-stocks-funds-january-2015/)

Most of their users are quite secretive. I've heard they are cypherpunks. And many seem to be rich or people working on behalf of a rich person. But, because not too many people talk about their MPEx activities publicly, it's hard to tell.

Well you can always hang out on bitcoin-assets
Or just read some of mirceas stuff on Trilema (Speaking of thanks for reminding me to check what was  going on with Satoshi Minigame they are actually delivering a product)

As previously announced, the next version of Eulora is still on track to go live later this month. Unlike the previous release, this will be a beta version, numbered 0.1.0. Most of the game mechanics will be presenti, and in general it is our expectation that the world of 0.1.0 will attain permanence.ii

uh? what satoshi minigame? what's Eulora?  ???

It was the game that Mircea got funding for on MPEX you might remember it as the Ministry of Games buck
Havelock has a pass-thru
It just has no updates on bitcointalk along with other MPEX securities since Mircea never apologized for the ban and is still dead.
(Although apparently MP has enough ghost power to create a battle with Gavin over the 1mb vs 20mb blockchain fork without even needing to be there, by threatening with all the Bitcoins they hold)
^_^

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=224634.0

ah thx, friggin luv bitcoin, so much drama ^^

https://i.imgur.com/y1hYlP0.jpg

You have to give MPEx some props really...it is more stable and longer lasting than any other exchange. I would feel safer having coins there than on Havelock any day of the week.
I have no coins either place though...so even safer  :P

That in itself is the strangest thing, a Romanian (Gypsy according to some) is a more trustworthy candidate to hold your coins than a Bitcoin exchange like bitfunder.
(BTCT ended ok but died) (Havelocks managing but the assets held in the exchange are another story)

Then again if you consider it from the perspective that it was a really expensive vault to store Bitcoins in, sort of makes sense.
"I understand that I will be required to pay 30 BTC as fees for registering this account, and I agree and promise to do so"
After that it's practically a locked storage device.

does this works?

https://coinbr.com/about

Yes, it does HDbuck or at least it did never tried it myself
I'm surprised someone even remembered it existed though

Yes, it works great. I use CoinBR as my broker for MPEx.


The Ministry of Games (S.MG (http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MG)) is a public company which develops games. The first game by the company, which they are in the process of producing, is Eulora, MMORPG type game with a real bitcoin economy. You can see the wiki for the game at http://www.eulorum.org/Eulora (http://www.eulorum.org/Eulora) or read more on trilema in the SMG category (http://trilema.com/category/smg/) (paywall).

Well most people do not always check trilema but it's usually not behind a paywall if your an infrequent visitor
Thanks for posting a wiki link sort of forgot that existed after all this time