Bitcoin Forum

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I'm waiting for the 10TH miners for $500 to come out.

What do you guys think, like a year from now?

I too will wait until the next generation comes out, with even more denser form factors, and even more energy efficient chips make it out to market.  As technology progresses, we'll see some more drastic price cuts we hope, as home miners.

Either that or we'll buy overpriced, inefficient, heat generating miners that we'll buy like the greedy lizard brain suckers we are.   8)

In all seriousness though, I'll personally sit it out until maybe 16nm chips are the norm and the sticker shock is in the 3 figures.  Then I might actual consider jumping back in.

Bitmain is trying to address the density part of the equation with their new C1.  It's effectively two S3+ combined into a single S3-sized chassis.  Water cooled (need to supply your own kit).  It's kind of interesting and goes to show how the manufacturers are trying to make the most of the current generation tech.

S4s would be flying off the shelf if coins were trading in the US $500+ range!

Speculation: late Q4 + same chip/bigger board + slightly better efficiency ~1TH

There won't be an S5 available for retail sale, in my opinion. If BitMain develops an S5, they'll stock their DCs with them and if you're lucky they offer some cloudmining up for sale. But most likely it will be just another massive private mining operation.

Home mining is dead. But don't lemme stop ya'll from speculatin' & dreamin'.  ;)

Mining is still alive with cheap electricity.  I will agree it's no longer the 3 month roi guarentee.  At one time I could be sure to be in profit at 90 days, now my calculations are going longer. I think Bitmain will continue to sell to public as it is a benefit for both, with them selling public the gear is cheaper for them as everything is in bigger quantity.

I do agree there will be a day when most are "cloud mining".  As i like hardware i hope it is still a little ways away.  Cloud mining is getting cheaper though and will continue to be more and more attractive.

Hope bitmain come back with the free shipping. Shipping  is costly

The problem is you can't get cheap electricity for small user or household..

i tend to agree.  i don't we will see a miner like that for some time.  the s2 didn't last very long on the market (bitmain site) at all,  people did not like the power hungry miner.  i hope manufacturers can master the efficiency, i would like to see 1 Th/s at 300 watts.  

Previously there was some news saying some germany company come out with 1TH/s at 200 watts only... But they are still in development stage...

I would not say cant.  It is just part luck since based on location.   I am lucky enough that I have decent electricity.   

You're paying for shipping whether it's an added extra or included in the cost. They've just decided not to hide the shipping cost anymore. The net cost would still be the same.

And if they are successful with their design, they'll build thousands of units and deploy them in their own private mining operation and difficulty will skyrocket again.

Maybe they'll sell some at retail to hapless home miners at an inflated price that will never make a profit.  ;)

Maybe I'm a month or two premature with my "home mining is dead" prediction. I'm still mining at home with 10THs. But I'm just breaking even after electricity costs at .12kWh. Maybe I should state it like this... Home mining is dead within 60 days for 95% of the current home miners.

As cklovis pointed out in a recent, informative post, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827480.0) home mining only makes up 15% of the current network hashrate. Now take out the group of miners who don't live in the Article Circle, 3rd World countries or the Pacific Northwest and what is left?

Now look into the future a bit. Difficulty will continue to rise (albeit, more slowly) but electricity will certainly not get cheaper for the home miner. Hardware efficiency may marginally improve but it won't likely offset the difficulty rise. And even now without super-cheap electricity, none of the current generation of cutting edge miners will ever earn a positive ROI. And with every efficiency increase, massive mining operations will jump in ahead of home miners with dozens of PHs of new equipment. This will not change, guaranteed!

If home mining isn't completely dead yet, it will soon be time to pull the plug and let it slide into darkness.

I am lucky enough its gotten cold.  That helps to be able to use cold air that is truly free, just a fan helping it circulate. 

Since bitmain is always about energy efficiency, they might use 16nm chip for S5 and push down the watt per gh down to like 0.3.

This is usually about the time where I chime in and say how ridiculous it is to be talking about version x+1 when x is still being sold, pushed, etc. but this time imma just STFU and get a bag o popcorn ready.

please don't STFU.

I figure this margins are tight for asic builders coins are at 390 usd.  I think they will attempt to sell very slowly and promote small diff increases.
  If they can get coins  above 550 they will expand.

Is this miner in plans at all ?

Nope, its just speculation.

At the mods I thought my joke was funny, but I understand the deletion.

At the op there is no way an s-5 will be built for many months to come.  Now if some one puts out a .2 watt miner

 the s-5 may show up as a competitor.

Builders don't need to build miners faster if they have a good miner on the market.  Once some real .2 watt gear is built something like a .25 watt s-5 will appear.

So far bitmain is really good with power efficiency, I believe they would come out S5 with 0.4 watt at least.

This is almost exactly what I said a few days before they announced the S4...lol

count on it  when who knows but it will but will that 10TH really be all that then .

or just improve what they have now and sell more for less and make more .

nothing is ever dead till its dead and gone and we no longer here about it . how i see it . right now its not dead depends on what you term as dead  . but my thought on dead is dead and is no more .


like gold mining by some one off the streets that is truly dead . Some still try it and lose all they have etc .but home mining is it not dead in the sense of how you do it and what you want form it .


oyea  How greedy are you  ! :) .

:) .

I personally agree home mining is not dead.  I know I still have not switched to cloud mining.  For me personally it is still cheaper to mine with hardware, espically now that winter is so close.

Cloud mining should be more profitable then own hardware now cause they can get cheaper shipment charges, cheaper mining hardware and cheaper electricity charges due to bulk..

Are you idiots still wanting to BUY DONATE with your hard earned money ?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-21/bitcoin-miner-ditches-clients-to-chase-2-billion-coding-prize.html

I would just flush mine in a toilet if i hate money that much

It is cheaper but still not as cheap for me..... find me one where you own the hardware and can get less then 10 cents per kwh.  It just is not to that point yet.

And look at some hardware such as S3 and S4 there is still no bulk discount they are selling good without it.  If you went with prisma or something you could get bulk discount.

It should be some 6th/s unit, right ?

2 C1s come pretty close to the S4 in price when you add PSU's and water kit.  The S4 is probley slightly cheaper.  If you have PSUs laying around that are 1k watts + then C1 is better deal for you.

The S5 has been ninja announced lol ybitcoin magazine has an announcement on it and if it stands true to the add were looking at another week before they fully public announce it though it could be longer

This is very true.  Why release when you don't have to?

Um, to gain market share and push-out your competition.

But there's nothing to release because Bitmain don't have a more efficient chip yet and may never have one for sale to the public. Home mining is dead and the current generation of ASICs is probably the last that will be released to the masses.

i dont know where you get your numbers from, i as a private household pay $0.165, if i opt for a longer contract (with higher usage), i can get it down to $0.105.

 (since im looking to buy a house, i wont be getting the cheaper option until ive bought a house)

http://issuu.com/ybitcoin/docs/ybitcoin-volume1__issue4/7?e=0/9799106

is it reliable? Would it be of S1, S3 family (small, standalone, no PSU) devices or one of S2 and S4 family?
My bet is on it being a hybrid between S3 and Prisma (AM). Maybe 1.2-1.3 TH for 1-1.1 BTC, hopefully.

Does anyone even knows how much TH/s will it have ?

available for sale and in stock on nov 15?  that's only 5 days from now and still no word on specs or pricing?  i guess they need the hype if they hope to sell sell sell.

They don't need hype.  The clowns around here would buy a boat anchor for a million bucks if it mined even a tenth of a Bitcoin.

Seems like BM has learned from their preorder mayham..

Thank you Bitmain. From the special place in my heart that belongs to pre-order people.. thank you for not doing it again! :)

Most likely a delay, they normally announce 2-3 weeks before.

“There’s still going to be $2 billion, at today’s price, mined in the next few years,” Cole said in a phone interview. “That’s a lot of cash that’s up for grabs and we’re going to do our best to take a decent chunk of it.”

What an unbelievably shameless greedy bastard. Fuck that guy.

You guys don't realize this is a race to the next halving in 2016? Some players are racing to the 2020 halving!

L1 have been the only preorder preoders they've ever done, but S5 will be sold from hard stock I believe.

Did Bitmain have an official announcement thread on the S5? 

Don't see it on their website yet.

that would be nice.  hopefully it is  a decent piece of gear

Most likely liquid cooled again, looks like liquid bubbles behind the S5 lettering.

With new Avalon4 (http://www.btcfans.com/it618_scoremall-scoremall_page.html?pid=47) (1Th for 470 $) it (S5) should be at least not worse than Avalon4...

Not seeing anything yet

True, but the issues with delayed shipping etc. on the S3 have people thinking it was a preorder thing aswell - at least, I think they wanted to get cash in right away, insted of waiting for stock to be ready and testing be completed.

How much power does "The Boat Anchor" Bitcoin miner use?  I am interested.

It looks like a galaxy photo to me, not bubbles. Maybe it runs so hot that it needs to be in the vacuum of space where it can't burst into flames.  ;)

LOOOL !!

If Bitmain doubles the chips like they did with the S2; the S5 could be the best miner available.

Casual home miners have 2 advantages over mining farms:

1. They might not care about electricity cost
Some of the miners run their rig as heating devices, some of them are living in a apartment that electricity is included in the rent. Once the electricity cost is gone, they are forever profitable

2. They can run in underwater
Even the electricity cost is higher than the coins, miners just regard this as a hobby and using those costs to get some mining pleasure, like paying money to play a game: Operating your little gold mine is fun

On the contrary, large mining farms are business oriented, if they could not sell the mined coins at profit, they will take a loss. No business can run too long with a negative profit, the larger the scale the less likely they can hold on

As a result, those mining farms will be shutdown by a sustained high difficulty and low bitcoin price, and mining rigs will be sold to those fans who does not care about the electricity cost

To prevent such scenario from happening, large mining farms might seek ways to lower the electricity cost, team up with large power supplier or build their own power grid. Another way is to sell the heat as a service, for example providing warm water for apartments. so that they never run underwater. But both are long processes, without a firm believe in bitcoin, normal farms will just shutdown

Because of the exponentially higher cost of lower chip nm process, high efficiency miners will be very expensive thus incur a larger risk even before running, just like few people purchased FPGA miners in GPU era

Maybe in future, majority of the mining chips will be built into heating devices, and sold into high latitude area or heat providing companies

I agree. Re mining/heating. It is somewhat true, but the most benefit is when the cost of heating by electricity is lower that the cost of heating by natural gas.
Right now (in US at least), natural gas is cheaper, so although you get heating benefit, I calculated that is it is at most 30% of miners' electricity cost.

so it will be soon launched and still no details ?

another facor to think of is that by mining, you effectively can "buy" bitcoins every month by paying your electric bill. Even if your mining is slightly unprofitable (say you mine 0.25BTC in a month and pay $105 in power costs) it might be cheaper and a lot easier than buying 0.25BTC/$100 (plus fees) through an exchange.

I don't know if i agree with 1.   I for one watch it and if it is two high sell my gear to others with cheaper electricity i'm guessing when my profit level is to small.  I know i sold a miner this week out of my collection to a Hosting Center in Washington, about as cheap of electricity there as US has.   Also I pulled the plug on 8500 watts worth of GPU's when profit became very small quite a while ago.   I sold them bought coins and eventually more asics.

It seems like to me approximately 90% of the posts here have not mentioned the price of BTC rising.

Yes, I know many of those who said home mining is dead were posting several weeks ago.  However, they never mentioned WHAT IF BTC rises.  Many with high electricity costs would just turn off their rigs and wait till BTC has risen to a point of profitability.

I did not have to turn off my rigs [Sixteen S3's @ 7.4 Th/s] because our power cost is the following:  $0.077823 the first 750 kWH's and $0.065823 after the first 750 kWH's during the winter.

https://i.imgur.com/ut4C78t.png (http://imgur.com/ut4C78t)

I intend on building my home mining farm to 50 Th/s because I honestly believe BTC will get much higher than what it is right now once we get well past the fork.  I believe the S4 will get me there with no problem.  However, the mention of this S5 has me very interested.  I'll drop the money down to get the S5.  Especially, if it is less power hungry per Gh/s than the S4.

Do you notice where the fork in the road is located?  Exactly where we are right now in this moment in time.  I'm honestly considering getting the power company to install a 400 AMP service meter next to my 200 AMP service meter at my house once BTC gets above $900.00.  Notice, I did not say "IF."  I said "when" BTC gets above $900.00.  That additional 400 AMP service would help me get to 180 Th/s in my house.  I have a 13' x 25' room downstairs not used in the house with two windows to put four exhaust fans.  

https://i.imgur.com/99CsCqr.png (http://imgur.com/99CsCqr)

If the S5 has its watts per Gh/s as low as the S4, it will be a big help in reducing our power costs and increasing our profits.  A lower watts per Gh/s would also be a big help with not being concerned as much about the difficulty creeping up on us.

You obviously put a lot of thought into this post but...

You don't seem to realize that mining, in the longterm, is a zero sum game. If BTC hits $900 again (and holds), all of the ASIC manufacturers will quickly fill their current DCs with more efficient equipment and build new DCs all with access to much cheaper electricity than you could ever dream of getting.

In the future there may be brief periods where there is a gap between higher price BTC and build-out of new DCs, just as there was last fall. And you may have good profitability during those times. But those periods will likely get shorter because the ASIC manufacturers are able to build-out more quickly and efficiently.

We simply can not compete with ASIC manufacturers. Home mining is and always will be a horrible longterm investment even if BTC gets to $2000. Only a few individuals who perfectly time the market may be able to earn a positive return.

xstr8guy is right
Imagine a train with first, second and third class. We are at the back! and if the train picks-up speed then we will be thrown out thru the back! In the first class are the biggest farms!  speed = difficulty in %

so? is it gonna be 0,5w/1ghz?
same format as s1 and s3?
22 nm?20 nm?14 nm?16 nm?

No, didn't take much thought at all.  Why?  Did it really have to take a lot of thought?  Do you even know me?  Why do you have to choose words or phrases that are condescending?

Do you presume I'm ignorant or something based off what you have read in my post?  Can you not have an open mind instead of being focused on your own bitcoin mining intellectualism?  For all I know, you post this garb on here in the hopes that others who read will not mine or will not continue to mine.

I already had the pictures on my desktop from this same discussion in other forums and PM's.




You act like THEY will have a corner on the Billions of dollars worth yet to mine.  You act like the pools won't be able to mine another block after they do this.  That's why we have pools.  There is power in numbers.




That's why I'm getting ahead of the game while I can in terms of how much equipment I have to get well ahead of the difficulty and the revenue I want to bring home each month.  I'm adding an S4 if not an S5 to my small farm every month until end of April.  After April, I'm adding two S4's if not an S5 to my small farm every month until I have a 50 to 180 Th/s.

I spent $4,000.00 for 16 Bitmain Antminer S3's.  They mined enough BTC to buy an S4.  It only cost me $364.00 in electricity that I paid out of pocket to buy that S4.  

The way I see it, I got that S4 for $364.00 out of pocket.  I'm putting off the $4000.00 pay off of the S3's till a later date.  I'm paying for my electricity out of pocket and using all mined BTC to purchase more S4's or S5's.  So, like I said, I'm getting my S4's or S5's at a discount (the cost of electricity out of pocket to mine them).  

I'm PUTTING OFF paying the $4,000.00 initial investment until my mining revenue is much higher.  Once it gets to the point that my electricity is approximately $1,000.00 in costs each month, I will stop paying for the electricity out of pocket and use my mined BTC to pay for it.  That point in time will be end of April.  

At the end of April I will have approximately six (6) S4's and sixteen (16) S3's for a total of approximately 19.4 Th/s if not over clocked. At present difficulty, 19.6 Th/s can mine approximately 0.24722657 BTC per day.  That is approximately 7.4167971 BTC every 30 days.  You and I both know that difficulty will not remain at 39.5 billion.  It will climb.  How much?  Who knows?  The point is that puts me well ahead of the game IN THE BEGINNING before I'm even concerned about paying myself back for investment.  Keep in mind, I got my S4's if not S5's at a discount (what I paid in electricity costs).

7.4167971 BTC at present is approximately $3,142.79 with BTC price at $423.74 US.

Maybe you wish to argue that the difficulty will rise and I will not continue those profits?

Here is my argument:

For every 1 Billion the difficulty rises, the price of BTC can off set that rise in difficulty if it goes up .97519807% (approximately 1%).

Here is my proof:

Note the difficulty in the top left of the conversion calculator is at 39,629,645,941 THEN note that I added 1 billion to the difficulty at the next screen shot.  However, the revenue per time frame is approximately the same.  Why?  Because I raised the price of BTC .97519807% (approximately 1%); which see.  I raised the price of BTC from $424.65 US to $435.45 US.  We cannot say the price has to rise approximately $11.00 US every time the difficulty goes up 1 Billion.  We have to say it in percentages.

The reason I have $7,984 in equipment costs and not $4,000.00 is to include what I paid in electricity to get up to 19.4 Th/s; along with an exhaust fan, switch, etc...

ALSO NOTICE IT SAYS HARDWARE BREAK EVEN SHORTLY AFTER 100 DAYS FROM THE POINT OF ACHIEVING 19.4 Th/s.  That is IF I decided to stop adding another rig to my farm!

https://i.imgur.com/qljNDMv.png (http://imgur.com/qljNDMv)


https://i.imgur.com/bCIkHP4.png (http://imgur.com/bCIkHP4)


I understand if the difficulty goes up, we mine less bitcoin and need to add more hashing power IF the price of bitcoin remains the same.  However, if the price of bitcoin rises approximately 1% for every 1 billion the difficulty rises, it is offset.  Isn't it?  If I'm wrong, please let me know.



Sorry, but YES WE CAN.  That's why we have pools.  There is power in pools.  So what we don't make as much money as the big gigantic farms do.  I'm not trying to build a gigantic farm.  I cannot compete with them if I cannot obtain rigs at the same price they do.  I'm not trying to compete ON THAT LEVEL.  I'm simply working to get 50 to 180 TH/s as quickly as possible cause I'm betting the price of BTC will continue to rise at a slightly higher percentage than 1% for every 1 billion the difficulty rises.

The S5 would definitely be at the top of my list to choose if it's watts per Gh/s is lower than the S4 and it's COSTS per Gh/s is lower than the S4.

this is s5 speculation!!!! go write a book somewhere else!!!

I thought I was the only on who spent a lot of time ensuring I remain profitable.

I was ambit depressed from having to shut down my mining rigs (profitability was approaching zero), but this made my day. :)

You're damn right it is S5 speculation!!!

Someone is trying to say it's not worth getting an S5 and I'm betting it will be worth it and explaining why it will be worth it.

No details were stated about WHAT KIND of speculation regarding the S5.

Chill

If you want short 180 character responses, you should go to twitter.

This is a forum to gain information.  I'm out to help all of us who mine on pools to compete against the BIG solo farms in China or where ever they may be located.  I'm also open minded to any others who might can contribute towards this end.  

I'm simply trying to help any who mine from home not to give up in their contribution to the pools as we compete against large solo farms and cloud farms.  I'm also pointing out how the S5 would be a nice contribution to any home miners set up in our efforts to compete as a pool with the large solo farms and cloud farms.  If you think I'm wrong, then give an explanation why.  I'm open minded.  I'm all ears.

That was a trip!

Server must have been down or something.  I could not connect to bitcointalk.org for at least an hour.  Was it the same for everyone else?

I read somewhere it was a DOS attack on the forum.

I see no need to respond further. You seem to have been able to rationalize the irrational with questionable math and lots of words strung together. I wish you luck in your endeavors.

LOL


Thank you

That goes both ways!

Good luck to you as well.

By the way, that sounds like something a Progressive would say rather than a Bitcoin Libertarian like myself.

I'm stuck at the variable 0.0121

...
...
...

AND EVERYTHING IN MY APARTMENT RUNS ON ELECTRICITY

I'm currently at approximately 6000 watts or 6 kW per hour with my rigs, exhaust fan, etc.  6 kW x .098 = .588 cents per hour.  Multiply that x 24 hours = $14.11 per day.  Multiply that x 30 days = $423.36.  Approximately 1 BTC

2.34476816 BTC in the last 7 days at CKPool if I had been there the last 7 days.  However, I have only been there the last 2 blocks that were found.

I made approximately 3.1 BTC at Eligius and Slush in the past 30 days before switching over to CKPool.

I hope the S5 is even more power efficient than the S4 per Gh/s.  If so, it definitely means more profits.  I know I will opt for the S5 if this is the case.  This depends on the costs of the unit of course.

When I say my approximate annual power rate is .098 cents per kWH, it is an average because of the different costs for the time of year, taxes and fees.  I posted my power costs in the State of Alabama in a previous post in this forum.

We would do well if the S5 has a lower watts per Gh/s rating than the S4.  It could be even better if it actually is liquid cooled to reduce heat which would also reduce electricity costs during the hotter months.  I just hope the price is not outrageous to make the ROI outrageous!

this is antminer S5 thread which turned into a KW/H price thread, wtf ???
go with this somewhere else !

wtf,

no it didn't.

can't you read?

Someone was trying to say we should not buy an S5 or any rig for that matter.  They referred to power costs as being one of the culprits.  I simply pointed out how mining from home is still profitable for most miners which included their power costs.  That's IF you are referring to page 4 of this topic.

Yes, someone chimed in about their power costs for a moment but I remained on topic for the most part in my responses when I could to try to encourage others to stay on topic.

There is no harm in me telling others, when they purchase an S5, to come to CKPool either.

Chill

Liquid cooling does not reduce the amount of heat generated. Liquid cooling simply removes the heat from the chip more efficiently than air cooling. The same amount of heat is generated and is emitted from a liquid-cooled device as is from an air-cooled device. Heat doesn't just magically disappear.

Why bring politics into this? But good guess! I am a proud progressive, dare I say liberal, lol.

any information will it be liqiud cooled ?

No specs have been released yet, so no one knows. Supposedly we'll know on the 15th.

i think its safe to say NO. simply because the naming system used by Bitmain indicates that the C2,C3, Cx series is watercooled and the S-series is air cooled

Learn something all the time.

Thank you

LOL


Maybe I can convert you, but I doubt it.

Good point.

Learn something all the time.

electronics wise water cooled might conme 0.01% less than air cooled

so we will have s1, s3 format with better randament than the previous 2...

xtra8,

I'm curious, approximately how many degrees celsius do these rigs stay at that are liquid cooled?  It sounds like liquid cooling is there only to help units hash faster with no benefit whatsoever regarding keeping the ambient air around the unit cooler.  What a let down.  Maybe they ought to try Nitro Cooling (cooling with nitrogen oxide) or Freon cooling if they are going to bother with tubes and such.  Just a thought.

Thanks for the info!

Wow, sounds like the liquid cooling is just more there for looking, well, "cool."   LOL

So where is the S5 information, it was supposed to ship tomorrow.

yes for the looks, but also you can route the pipes and dump the heat 1mile away... also more heat can be moved with water than air
nos for cooling? not worth, not even LN2!
water is the last stage for home user. afte that you have to go a bit pro with freon cooling or submerging in special liquid!

Thanks for the reply.

Interesting...

Thanks.  I'm sure there are many other mining geeks out there trying to come up with a unit that can keep the heat down while keeping the costs down per unit to try to obtain an attractive ROI.

I'm looking forward to seeing it on bitmaintech.com as well.  I keep checking their website at least once an hour.  They may have delays for some reason or another.  Maybe doing more extensive testing to avoid another Batch 1 fiasco like the S4 had.  However, all may be well and they just want to wait till tomorrow for whatever reason.  It could be that magazine just wanted to create a stir and try to get hits on their website.  Who knows?

I know how you feel.  I keep checking, I wish there was a official announcement.

15 boys, 15!
Hope is still around 2 blades system with 2*6pin sockets/blade
same ~360w or 500w max power and speed around 1.5 times the power
plssssss not to be water cooled yet! ;D

1 Th per blade, yep.  ;)

Is there any way we can have 200 USD per 1TH some day?

Ofcourse.... will it be tomorrow no.  Chances are it will be a much larger TH machine (hard to guess future) and with the more TH they do lower price per TH.  I don't think were very close to the 200 goal you want.

The only real world experience that I have with liquid cooled miners are two Monarchs. One is running 52c in ambient temps of about 78f. The other Monarch ran much hotter (mid-high 60s) but it melted a PCIe power connector and died.

What if i go directly to the source manufactures and buy a really large bulk asic?

The "source manufacturers" are BitMain, KNC, Spondoolies, Bitfury, AsicMiner, Cointerra, Butterfly Labs, HashFast and whoever makes those DragonMiner chips (Bitmine.ch?). I imagine that many of them would give you a bulk discount.

Do your own research though! There are several manufacturers (most of them, really) that you should stay far away from. One is under investigation by the FTC and at least one other is bankrupt. Hint... BFL and HF.

Thank you, this is helpful.

Use Dogies Trustworthyness guide: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691

That guide is garbage.  I suggest any noob here to take Dogie's manuf. trustworthyness guides with a huge grain of salt and do your own due diligence.

Still nothing on bitmaintech.com

Now I'm not sure if the S5 will be released or not.

Not looking like it thus far.  I thought it was a bit too soon after the S4.  But, who knows?

It's Bitmain. You should doubt in their promises.  ;D

if there is a huge gain in power and hash rate, then i think they will mine using those asics on their farm till they sell it to home miner.

Has anyone heard of the magazine it was in before this?

I just got to thinking that would be one heck of a way to get a lot of views, make up a ad.

That's what I mentioned earlier.  Some website just wanting some hits on their site to show to potential customers (advertisers) who would pay to advertise on their website.

this. any free miner is a good miner, eh?
anyhoo.. i've been refreshing the bitmain website page all day and nothing is jumping out at me.

S5 my arse.

Exactly, "S5 my ass!"

An S1 with no upgrade kits is a bad investment in my opinion; UNLESS one does not have to pay for electricity in a college dorm or where ever.

So it's 16th in China now. Another one broken promise.  :-\

can we even substantiate that it was bitmain who were advertising this? there was nothing official from Bitmain to say they were even working on an S5? was there?

Maybe that's because Bitmain was afraid that they will not be able to keep this promise and they preffered not to make any official announce... I don't know...

possibly, but there was no mention of power specifications, or hashrate, so there was nothing really, to go on.

There was not even new chip's datasheet published...

Who promised it?

Some strange magazine. )

That's what I thought.  So, not BITMAIN...

I have to give this site credit on being creative to get clicks.   Made one heck of a ad and even a littte buzz.

I'm about to give up and scrap it all to magazine publicity stunt.

They (Bitmain) did not promise anything. It was just one self-promoting website, unrelated to Bitmain.
The only thing that was and still is missing was Bitmain officially saying that it isn't so, hence the confusion.
Considering that Bitmain frequenting these boards it is somewhat surprising that they let this rumor pass unanswered.

And an S1 is only going to earn 86 cents per day even with free electricity. Hardly worth the trouble, lol.

is that a 'constant' 86cents, or an average over time?  :D

Lets just wait for another week for S5, I am pretty sure S5 is much better interm of price per GHS and power.!!

This appears not to have been a official ad, so it could be a week or multiple weeks.    Really no one knows.

We'll c'mon now, you know the answer, lol. 86 cents per day for the remainder of this difficulty period... then somewhere around 85 cents for another 2016 blocks... then lower again.

93 cents per day at present difficulty and present cost of bitcoin $408.00.  $27.79 in one month and hardware break even in 97 days.  All of this with free electricity.

Not worth it in my opinion either.  If my electricity costs were free, I would rather have an S4 or S5.  However, it all depends on what one can afford.

I said this in another thread so it's worth repeating. Business timelines can change, and I have no more info than you on when the S5 will be released, but the Antminer ad in yBitcoin is an official ad. We only print ads with the direct consent and participation of our advertising partners. Thanks for reading the magazine and please share it!

Kind regards,

/db

who said we read the magazine? naaaaah, we just followed the links to the advertisement page  :D

Haha just when I'm starting to get nostalgic over BTF. Well, just so you guys know what we do- we're the world's leading educational bitcoin publication. Our awesome partners (like Bitmain) enable us to give the magazines away for free all over the world- in turn raising awareness and hopefully making your rigs pay out some extra dollars. This year we've been able to print almost 300,000 free magazines reaching an estimated 1-1.3 million potential new bitcoin users. If there is someone in your personal network on the edge or interested about using bitcoin, get them a free magazine shipped right to their door (we even pay shipping within the USA)!

in that case, i applaud you. best luck with the endeavour. now - go get us some insider info!  :o

They might use 16nm chip for S5 and push down the watt per gh/s down to like 0.2.

ROLL TIDE, David!

Thank you for your contribution to bitcoin!  Didn't realize we were close to one another until now.  I live in Birmingham.

I'll have to check out the magazine in more detail.

Have a great day!

David Ward

doubt anyone is that far with 14nm in relation to bitcoin mining atm.

Allthough.. if anyone could be.. it would be bitmain or friedcat i would guess..

if intel doesn't have a lot of 14nm cpu on the market...22nm looks more realistic

ROLL TIDE!! Proud University of Alabama alum here. There's actally a pretty big bitcoin scene in Tuscaloosa, a few of us got a bunch of students and professors invested in the $10 to $100 range so they have alot of happy supporters and college kids with too much btc for their own good. Actually met my girlfriend of the pat 3 years there and she's now working at BitPay.. bitcoin life.. right? 

Come visit us in Huntsville when you get a chance,  we're actually relocating to Nashville around the start of the year so don't wait too long!

Best,

/db

Holy shit... 2 People from Alabama who are mining?!?! I thought I was the only one.

LOL


ROLL TIDE

bama dropout and even i figured out how to mine  ;D i actually swam there over a decade ago... i live 30 minutes from the swamp now. i'm not saying our fanbase isn't rabid enough, but i think we could support our own crypto. who's down to mine bamacoin with their s5's with me lol

I'm down with using an S5 to mine Bamacoin!

Might like the name, "TideCoin" more.   ;D

The ASICMiner BE200 is 40nm. Friedcat is very far away from 14nm. They'd be lucky to have a 28nm chip before the middle of 2015.

s1 and s2 are using bm1380 55nm
s3, s4 and c1 are using bm1382 28nm
....

AM can go to other nodes like 32nm, 28nm or even 22nm. going down in the proces fabrication is much easyer then making a brand new chip from scratch.

I actually prefer them to do S5 as cloud mining, shipment is too costly. Big determine factor for ROI.

Well then FC must have horseshoes up his ass, because rumour has it that AM taped out 28nm in Sept.

so, end of january, beginning feb for new Am rigs?

I'm assuming by "new Am rigs" you mean the Antminer S5?

no.

Details aren't too clear.  My understanding is that they went in on an MPW to validate the design, so first chips expected in Dec.  I would guess we might start seeing new AM (ASICMiner) HW sometime in Mar '15.

Interesting. Of late, AM have struggled to keep up with efficiency of other h/w. Do you think we can expect something competitive or will someone else trump them to w/GH?

I'm hedging my bets, i find all this quite exciting, as we approach a heavy level of difficulty which could, in essence render everything currently hashing, unprofitable. Interesting times.

Personally, I'll be surprised if AM is ever really relevant again.  They had the industry by the balls and managed to screw it up over and over. 

Well KnC thinks they'll hit 0.07W/GH in 2015.  Who knows if that'll ever come to light, but that would be the end of the line right there.

Any news on this S5 yet? Being waiting so long..

Probably the only chance of hearing something SOON will be Cyber Monday.  If nothing then, I don't expect to hear anything till end of January to mid February.  More than likely Bitmain will be more patient and make sure it is properly field tested to avoid further hits on reputation.  Although, I still feel Bitmain has the most reliable rigs in the industry at a competitive price.

I hope that they are mining with them already because when they eventually get round to shipping out, it won't put difficulty up by much :D

:))))))) u nuts! :))))

they are mining for sure! it should have been announced on 17! from stock! so they are minint atm. that's y the last 10% jump, maybe... and now they try to clean up the house, selling old gear... if we dont see something, already,  on the market already is because of huge old stock!

Now that they did some black friday deals on S4, I am pretty sure once S4 is sold out they will announce S5.

What black friday deals?

It is NOT going to happen because all coupons were extended to Dec 15.

there was a scam site which robbed people, offering massive bitmain discounts. perhaps that news hasn't filtered through to some yet.

 ;)

Bitmain thread heading said there was a Black Friday Sale.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796839.0  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796839.0)

This is true, but they are also selling S4s for 30% off and free international shipping, but you need to buy at least (I think it is) 16. Even with those prices the difficulty will need to rise very slowly for you to potentially ROI.

All this S5 speculation on ONE advert on the net ... placed weeks ago ... and not verified by anyone?

Sit back, relax and enjoy the ride ...

Yes the S5 (or whatever it will be called) will arrive, at some stage.

Well, in reality that "black friday" sale was announced on Saturday and it is ONLY if you are getting 16 S4 units, not for a single unit.
However, ALL coupons were extended to 12/15, so there is a discount.

I think, according to what members say that they receive i used S4 gears full of dust, and also the huge sale that bitmain need to do with the current products. this only mean that they replace their farm gears with some thing more powerful and they need to sell all the old stock.
May be after a while when they use this new product and get some decent profit from it then they will release it to the public.

i've a feeling that doing this is going to put a stop to the cogs. While other h/w manufacturers are shipping more efficient miners from stock, do you really think bitmain would halt sending out their most profitable rigs to customers and let other companies take the market share.

and just because they can mine themselves with their new gear, does this not mean they will be stuck in the same position when they do open it for sale? other manufacturers will be a jump ahead.

my opinion is that S5 isn't finished yet and as soon as it is, they will want it out on sale to customers.

I actually prefer them to sell used S4 miners but for cheap, price is more important then new or used right?

https://www.facebook.com/Bitmaintech.Antminer/photos/pcb.808821939159034/808821642492397/?type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/Bitmaintech.Antminer/photos/pcb.808821939159034/808821642492397/?type=1)
 ;D ;D

I just received an S4 yesterday from Bitmain and it was brand new, opened it up to verify nothing unseated from the flight and it was brand new inside as far as I can tell. Either it is brand new or it's never been scratched and they blew it out really good from when it was used last :)

What is your point, Speedster?  Don't think I'm being sarcastic because I'm not.  I'm just trying to figure out your point.

Read the other posts on this page.

They probably used the S4 before starting selling them but they sell new ones.
It will be interesting to buy new equipment when we can expect not to have far better equipment coming out in the near future. We will be able to mine the equipment with a stable difficulty.

at what level of difficulty do you suspect we will have reached by that time?
could be close to 100billion if price rises alongwith?

If they use 14nm/16NM FinFet then we won't have to deal with those swedish KnC Fudges, or risk having the building torched by some super heated Spondoolies Tech rig.

I don't think you can blame SP for the building fire.... they build a quality product.   

And I would wait on bitmain vs ever using KnC. 

If i had to speculate, I would guess they will go with a 20nm technology. I don't even know if Hashcoins is legit, but they are announcing a January 2015 release of the "Uranus" which promises 6TH/s @ 1600W (0.26W/GH) using 20nm technology.

https://www.hashcoins.com/product/hashcoins-uranus/

I found this miner on this wiki that is not completely up to date..

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison

IMO this is too soon for that. It may be likelier that this is just a revised 28nm design, such as using larger cores or multi-cored subrates (like a hashfast chip). This sort of redesign would allow for small changes to improve where unexpected losses were seen in gen1. (similar to the asicminer BE300 being an improved 28nm design on the 28nm BE200)

If i had to guess, a 0.3w (power-saving mode) to 0.5w (turbo mode) chip is likely. Alternatively, the S5 might just use more of the 28nm chip undervolted slightly inside an S3-sized enclosure; similar to how the S4 uses 5xS3 worth of chips, but all undervolted slightly for a ~0.1w/GH improvement on power use (ie: down to 0.6-0.7w/GH to compete with the spondoolies Sp20)

Amen to that!

Well they are obviously not going to launch on the 15th of November so maybe the project changed when they saw what the competition are working with. I agree, however, that if they release it within the next month it is unlikely to be 14nm/16nm FinFet. I really hope they stick to many smaller chips rather than fewer larger chips. The larger chips are more difficult to make power efficient, to cool, and when one is wonky the performance drop is substantial.

Yea doing some research and it does sound like everyone is moving past the 20nm and going with the 16nm FinFet. Spondoolies CEO already said they are skipping 20nm but it will be a while before they release the 16nm, because they have a new efficient 28nm coming out soon they say can compete with KNC's 16nm Solar and they also mentioned the price of the 16nm chips to be double that of 28nm and there manufacturing process is still not very mature meaning a higher likelihood of producing duds.

"TSMC's 16FF+ (FinFET Plus) technology can provide above 65 percent higher speed, around 2 times the density, or 70 percent less power than its 28HPM technology. "

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/16nm.htm

Doing the math of the higher speed and power saving if you equated that into what a current S4 (number of chips) offers you would have 3.3TH/s @ 420W = 0.12W/GH/s. With that kind of power saving you could produce 11TH/s @ 1400W.

sweeet...

So if 16FF+ is 5-6 times more efficient then 28HMP, we can expected 500% jump of difficulty until end of 2015.

It depends on the Bitcoin price as well. The hash rate is a bit too high right now for the current price. Miners are struggling to both cover overhead and reinvest. And that's before they take out some money for themselves. If the price goes drastically up the increase will be higher than 500%. But we are already seeing that companies have to build new facilities rather than using old industrial estates, so that is a limiting factor. You can find a lot of closed down factories and warehouses, but the electricity needs to be dirt cheap and the local grid needs to be able to carry tens of MW to the facility. If you have to upgrade the local grid to utilize an existing location the price may quickly surpass that of simply building a custom facility where the grid already has surplus capacity. So then you have to convince your investors that you have to invest tens of millions to build this new facility to mine an asset whose price is notoriously unstable + the uncertainty of difficulty.

2015 will be an interesting year.

It should be interesting to see what they do this year. We all need more hashing power at a lower wattage and for a lower price, but I don't think we'll see that anytime soon. The price of power keeps going up and difficulty is still too high, even with it leveling out a bit.  Bitmain is pretty awesome though :D

Well some 16nm chips would be nice for the power consumption if they can half the current ghs/w to .3.

We just have to see if the companies will deliver that kind of stuff...

Nope, we definitly dont need that. The more powerfull miners are the smaller pices of cake goes to small miners.

It all depends on how many new equipment arrives which depends to manufacturers and the price of BTC, it could be 100% more only if there is not a lot of new equipment available and the price of BTC doesn't go up but it could be up to 1000% or more with other circumstances.

An increase of 500% which I assume refers to the situation that the price will not change. If the price increase difficulty jump far higher.
If new miners 16FF+ show up sooner or later they will replace all older miners. Look at Antminer S1, appeared a year ago and now can serve only as a heater because its profitability is below zero. The same fate awaits all current miners. If we want stay and mine  we all will have to replace our miners to newer model.

I contacted Bitmain for release date and they said "soon."

I hope it is released before 12/31.

They said "soon" since last month...

Oh, I didn't know that.
I personally have good faith in Bitmain, but I don't think there will be huge leap in S5.
Difficulty dropped for the first time in last two years and it seems that mining "arm race" are following the Moore's law, too.
I think that's why S5 release is being delayed and I suppose L1 is going through the same thing.

You guys dream and take numbers out of your ass ;D
I say s5 is ready and is above 20nm process tehnology :)

Most companies are skipping 20nm because of cost and yield issues and going to 16nm or less FinFet chips like Spindoolies is doing. I imagine bitmain will do the same on their next generation of Asics.

friedcat just released BE300 chip specs for ASICMincers https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888260.msg9794133#msg9794133

That is really awesome, but do we have to build our own miner with the chip?

me:

I have heard rumors related to Antminer S5
Will it be released this year or maybe next year ?
Thank you


BitmainTech reply:

Hi,
It'll be released soon, pay attention to our official announcement later.

Best Regards

BITMAIN

later? Later this week, later this month, later next year? I wish they would be more specific!  :-\

Perfect - a few S5s will make a great Christmas present to myself!

Exactly what I was thinking... Time to completely offload my S1's.  Although I will probably keep one for a peice of history for myself.

lol I think he's just copy&pasting the answer.
I got this:
lol

I hope it is not going to be another pre-order situation like the L1. We can all see how that is playing out!  ???

if it is a pre-order it is better to stay away, your dignity is more valuable.

I have been burnt really bad by the crooks at BFL  and the crooks at KNC.

Bitmain has been on the better side other than the miners at times barely ROI, and other times do not.

It is incredible but my best mining times were in the GPU days, which are well gone.

So far the best choices for mining looks like it is the S3, S4, S5?, and SP20.

If anyone knows of another good choice I would like to hear about it, remember when mining not only good hardware is needed but hardware that has potential for ROI.

It is best to stay away from low quality hardware like BFL, and KNC, I have not had experience with other vendors.

All my S1, and S3 have been very solid, with at most a drop in hashing of 10%, but some had a 5% better hashing, with KNC I had a 75% drop in hashing over a short period of time.

check this out guys, i managed to juice some more of an answer from them:

Hi,
no exact yet, may be by end of this month or early of next month.
May we know how many S5 do you plan to buy and what's your budget?

seems like end of this month of early next month
nice !

Would be nice to know that the price and specs are before we start quoting our "budgets"  :o

here is your s5:

https://blockchain.info/blocks/AntPool

this pool was less than 5% few months back when the network power was smaller...

If u wanna a real speculation of the s5 it would be a 4th or 8th mining unit using smaller fabchips or if not running on water cooling!

Why couldn't the s4 be adapted to run water cooling thats been adapted from the S3 to the C1?

& use the same thing with the s2 to create the new C2 or S5 whatever u wanna call it?

Not interested in a water cooled unit TBH..  I will buy three of the S5 miners when they come out if they are the same design idea as the S1 and S3.   So easy to setup!!  Not a big purchase I know but I am just a little hobby miner :).  I want my "vote" on bitcoin lol. IMO the S1 and S3 are PERFECT just perfect for the hobby miner. 

Any news or rumors lately on the s5?

All I want for christmas is .....................

 ???
 ???
 ???
 ???

S5

Anybody got pricing ideas on this thing? Debating a S3+ or holding off.

I think you are right, they are making a fortune right now "testing" the machines.

i hope they are renting them out to those paycoin miners, they are paying a pretty sum for rentals at the moment  :D

If they are already mining using S5 then this good, because this mean there will be no extra hash on the network when they but it on sell.

Really? like someone using your wife for stuff and when he finishes with her, you may have it...
Bull Shit!

LOL

more like its antminers wife and after antminer bored, he gave it to you   ;D ;D ;D

We are already in this situation because most batch 1 rig on the market is used gears.

Yeah, but many of us are horny as hell and will more than likely pay to do the hoar (used S5).  Even if we have to put a bag over her head to hide the use and a clip on our nose to hide the smell.

dmwardjr ... hang your head in shame you little shit ... GET OFF THIS FORUM YOU IDIOT.

What is your problem?

I'm talking about the S5, Dude.

"Her" is the S5...

bag over "her" (S5) head [actually our head] to hide (ignore) it is used. and clip on our nose to hide the smell (electronic heat odor) from use.

Ease up dude.  Have you ever heard of metaphors?

Those dude's are joking and I use a metaphor, only to get jumped on by you.  Was simply trying to be funny and I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion.

You get off this forum if you think I'm going to disrespect a man's wife I don't even know!  Hell, he may not even be married!  So, IF you think I'm talking about a man's wife, you got me dead wrong!  PERIOD!  I'm married and have a child.  I respect women!  My wife earned my utmost respect when I saw what she went through when giving birth to our son!  

IF he is married, I have the utmost respect for him cause getting married and having children is a beautiful thing.  Having a family of our own is an honorable place to attain in life.  I was simply using a metaphor as a joke and you obviously took it the wrong way.

I'm referring to us guys who are hard up for even a used S5 like a horny despot in search of a hoar.

Ease up, Dude!

FAR BE IT FOR ME TO DISRESPECT A MAN (BITMAIN) WHO HAS DONE A LOT FOR THE BITCOIN COMMUNITY IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK I'M DOING.  I ALREADY HAVE 23 OF HIS RIGS.  I WILL NOT PURCHASE ANY OTHER EQUIPMENT BUT HIS BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST EQUIPMENT ON THE PLANET... BY FAR!!!  I WAS TALKING ABOUT A DAMN USED S5!!!!!

ALSO, I DON'T BELIEVE BITMAIN WILL SEND PEOPLE USED S5'S.  HE WOULD KEEP THEM AT ANTPOOL FOR WOULD BE RENTERS.  MY OPINION!!!!

SO, SLOW YOUR ROLL!!!!

AS FOR "LITTLE SHIT," THIS LITTLE SHIT WOULD CHEW YOU A NEW ASS!  YOU WOULD DIE FROM EXHAUSTION TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM ME.

I served my country proudly in the United States Marine Corp and I respect freedom, women and family BIG TIME!  If you say I'm disrespecting women by using the word, "hoar," then you are saying God is disrespectful to women by using the word "Harlot" (hoar) in His Word.

It all lies with the "intent."  My "intent" was to point out how many of us would still buy a "used" S5 [although I don't believe it would be used] because many of us are so hard up for an S5.  I gave a metaphor of "how hard up" by using a horny despot in search of a hoar to describe how "hard up" many of us are [including me] for an S5.

So, I think you owe me an apology OR we can continue this bull crap measuring each others dick [Also a metaphor].  It's up to you...

ROLL TIDE

Calm down buddy.

This is interesting:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=768004.msg9885242#msg9885242


(emphasis mine)

Of course it doesn't necessarily mean the coupon will be issued NOW and S5 is released IMMEDIATELY, but it's an interesting choice of words.

Anyway, watch out for those coupons when the time comes.

Thanks for the heads up!!!

15days can be stretched to 60days if they want...
Maybe Santa is coming earlier ;D

Would be nice.  Competition out there now with Spondoolies.  Who knows?  We'll see...

we wil :D
after the paycoin rush i think i will start to make place for new gear, as local market will be full of miners ::)

I'm just not sure about this pay coin thing.  I'm going to wait it out a bit longer and see.

Is it on an exchange?  Pay coin?

What are you waiting for? Mining ends tomorrow. Point your rigs at Westhash/Nicehash if you haven't done so yet, it's still paying twice as much as BTC mining.

It's on Cryptsy and some others, but you don't need that if you just want to mine for BTC.

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/XPY_BTC

dmwardjr hop on the wave! you late mate!
i recommend miningrigrentals

HELL NO

I have 19 Th/s of my own and another 20 Th/s on the way.

you sell your hash power! for at least double the bitcoin!
few days back it was 10 times!
i got a rig right now at 12h 4th 0.07btc ... in place of 0.025!

I understand.

I've thought about it.  I've looked into prices different miners are charging and such.  I personally would not pay to rent others rigs and anyone else who does needs to shop around because maybe 1% to 2% of them actually get you back what you rented them for unless you had them pointed at a pool that got extremely lucky!

That's precisely why people rent: they figure to get lucky and make more back than they paid for the rental.  Paycoin has blown up and radically inflated the prices of rentals.  Unfortunately, it's only going to last another 24 hours or so.  Then the prices will fall back down to more realistic levels.

not necessarily. there are quite a lot of big rig owners which have managed to understand how low prices don't always get the sale.

Did anybody notice the BM1384 spec sheet. Still 28nm but reporting lower power consumption. I assume this is the ship chip for the S5? Or did I miss something?
https://www.bitmaintech.com/files/download/BM1384_Datasheet_v2.0.pdf (https://www.bitmaintech.com/files/download/BM1384_Datasheet_v2.0.pdf)

maybe they adopted the tick-tock strategy of intel

very interesting :) Looks like its a redesigned 28nm as I expected was likely. Probably a larger number of lower-frequency cores per chip.

S5 should be advertised as 1TH/380W or so, and an S6 could probably achieve 4TH/1.2kW

So will we get S5 orders going b4 Xsmas?

My guess is after Christmas.  It is a guess so take it worth a grain of salt.   

They could do it monday/tuesday, but I don't see them doing it on Christmas Eve or Christmas.  But it would be a nice little gift if I am wrong.

how about 22dec? ;D

right now the SP20 or SP31 are clear winners - Bitmain's prices have been stagnant for over a month while spondoolies has now come down to similar $/GH with about 20-40% better efficiency. The same spondoolies chip will easily keep pace with Bitmain down to 0.35W/GH, perhaps further

I think those orders will be shipped after jan. 1, its been taking so looooong  :'(

You don't need to speculate anymore:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.0

Wow that's quite impressive specs in that form factor!  Bitmain has come along way in 1 year.  This same this year, they had the Antminer S1 at 180 GH/s on regular clock.

Now if they sell at the right price, they have a best seller once again.

$450 USD

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412220650169743S9QlmHx069D

YESSSSSSSS!  :P

plus shipping and maybe 2 as a minimum.  so 450 + 450 + 100 = 1k for 2?

right now that would be a tiny bit better then an sp20.
  If I have to buy 2  and pay 1000 usd I may wait for batch 2.
I do have a batch 1 s-3  and it did a btc roi and a usd roi and is still mining as I type.  but it likes running at freq 212 and hash 425gh

  I need to know :
A) shipping
 B) min order
C) are they close to spec.

I can get my sp20's under .47watts a gh with 0 worries.

Seems like it has now just come down to which company you like, a good thing?

Competition keeps Spoodlies and Bitmain always trying to out do each other!!

Let's see if the price of S3 and S4 come down after the S5 is released

Probably not... the S5 is twice the price, and a marginal power efficiency and speed improvement over the S3. It's essentially two S3s in one body, without the water cooling of the C1, plus a marginal improvement in performance.

And really they just gave people a reason not to buy the C1. They just made their own product obsolete.

The C1 was probably way to much for most people.  I have zero interest in taking care of liquid cooling.  I am considering the S5.

you probably want to shop around before you commit to that S5... we are moving into a dense time in mining and any rig bought now needs to be super-clockable up and down to stay profitable.

I am only running 1THash/sec.  I only mine as a hobby.  I have 1 S1 and 2 S3's mining away :).  My S1 is for an Altcoin I love and my S3's are for bitcoin.  I like having my "vote" on the network.  I am tempted to get an S5 then I could shutdown the S1 and use one S3 on BTC and the other on the Altcoin I like.  Not sure though, I would like to keep my power draw under 1KW.  Although I suppose 1.3 Kw is pretty darn close but still.  I guess I could just run the S5 and 1 S3 and keep the other one as backup.

Although on the same page the heat the S1 gives off is amazing in these cold months lol, mind you slippers and sweaters are a solid and cheap counter to cold lmao.

Just trying to help here...
In the image below you see the ASIC stats page of an SP20... Divide the calc number by 0.92 to get the ~w/gh at the wall... the SP20 already does what the S5 purports to be able to do.

http://www.rgspix.com/SP20under.jpg

ADD: i have the fan set at 30 and it's in the room next to my lounge.
I can't hear it from here (before the trolls begin to presume how loud this SP20 actually is).

True, SP20s are highly configurable ... up and down with power usage/per gh ... the S5 will be fairly fixed in its power consumption and hashing rate.

Would be interesting to know what db level the S5 sounds like ... The SP20 might look a little more expensive right now (Bitmain just dropped the S5 price in the last few hours) ... but the SP20 gives you room for movement and change as the market and your power supply dictates.

BitMainWarranty recently stated on the S5 thread that it would be highly advisable not to OC the S5.

so, it's ~1.1TH/s for 0.51w/GH and that's what you get

I'm not too bothered about the noise, after reading thru philipma1957's thread, i've found a very sweet spot for my SP20 that makes it unhearable in the next room unless I turn off the telly and tell the missus to sssshhhhhhh.

ADD: the missus never ssssshhhhhh's.

sp20 configurable up? i wnat to see a 1.8th/s sp20!

carefull with the s5! it should have come out from stock on 17 last month!
bugs maybe? .....

i'll wait for c2!

I concur, Sp-Tech should have had SP20 marketed at 1.5-1.6TH/s.
HOWEVER...  overclock and underclock are indeed superbly configurable, right down to the 0.001v

SP-Tech miner, you have to admit, no-matter what side of the fence you are on, have been and remain to be the highest quality miners on the market.

FYR... price...?

u cant use overclock in the same sentence with sp20, sorry :P

my first new bought miners are 2 sp20 and i hope they get fast here!

 ;) i quite agree, and i'll reiterate.. 1.5/1.6THs would have held it in higher regard.. with basic medium settings you should get 1.5TH/s.. on turbo it should put it to 1.65TH/s... but if you go advanced in the config, you should be able to push it up to 1.68 or 1.69TH/s

I run mine at 500w and get 1.1TH/s.. pretty much what BMT are trying to sell with the S5, which is completely non-overclockable, as pointed out on their main s5 thread. to be honest it's a bit of a disappointment, but i'll buy a few to put on ebay.

i'll try to reach 1.8 with my sp20. spill its boards an hit them with multiple fans :o
i'm with u, i'll buy a piece or few(if the price is good) but only used!

meh.

you won't get it to 1.8

believe me, i watched philipma1957 do his downclock thing and I tried like a bishop in brothel to push it the opposite direction... if you get 1.7, you'll be draining power... but it is a spectacular piece of electronics when you d/clock. In the era we are in in BTC mining, w/GH is everything.

i'm a little overclock maniak ;D athlon 1700+, pentium631, e8600... got an -80c cascade...
i'll try it cause i dont mind the w/GH
if nothing work then 1,6 or 1,5 is fine for me

well it's certainly going to be a safer bet than the S5

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=903102.msg9922620#msg9922620

.

Guys can we stay on topic plz? This is the S5 thread. I have a question. The only information I cant find on the S5 is the noise level, the db rating. Does anyone know what it is? I know it varies based on heat, but is the db rating more or less than an S3+?

Thanks

Vegas

i guess i can tell you as soon as mine arrives. Single fan and open top, it's not going to be as quiet as the S3 i can only presume.

never ever and forever buy batch 1! i want to upgrade all my s2 and s3 to sp20 and u buy s5 :o :P
maybe u are the lucky one not the get an s5 hotter burning than prisma ;D

I have indeed broken my own golden rule. but I also ordered one of those technobit things batch1 so I guess i've finally gotten over being stung by Hashfail. It's been  over a year now so I suppose time heals.

if you can fit this fan on the s-5


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A460TK6/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


and you downclock the s-5 just a little say to 950gh  it will win the quiet war over the sp20.

Having had s-3's and s-1's and being able to make them close to silent I will try to do this with the s-5.

I found my sound meter and the sp20 at fan of 10 downclocked to 1025gh using 477 watts is not quiet. it is 64db at 1 meter. 
The pitch is not nasty and if I were single I could deal with it.

The fan I linked only fits one end of the s-3 not both but it helps make the s-3 pretty quiet.
 down clock the s-3 to 212 freq add 1 silverstone fan and it beats the sp20 for noise easy.
 
I am supposed to get an s-5 for a demo to review.  I am fair and will show it's best and worst features.
I believe it will win the sound war over the sp20. 
But this is only a belief at this time.
    If you were to wait for the review I do you will see what I like about it. As of today I am waiting for some notice of the unit for shipping.

On the other hand it has been said that you should be able to undervolt the s5 (via a special PSU) in order to reach much more efficient w/gh efficiencies)

who would buy a special psu especially for a miner?!?!

do u guys know how much a special psu cost? overall it might be good to stay with bm1382  than upgrade to bm1384 and buy a special psu! at least for ~4months, nre miners are underway!

2 of these with a slight freq downclock will run on an evga 1300.

if this miner allows a freq that gives 1000gh at .51 watts  that is 1020 watts and 2000 gh on one evga g2 cost for 2 is

about 900 usd shipped to the usa

an EVGA G2 1300 works just fine even at 1400W at the wall... I've run it for quite a while like this.
1200 load is not a problem at all