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101  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 01, 2014, 02:51:16 PM
New poll:

700 by Friday?

At this rate, 700 by Tuesday - if not tomorrow evening.

I somehow just cant see this happen, but I've been wrong before...

So lets see.

The current trend since the breakout would bring us to 800 by next Sunday.
But I don't think we'll maintain the same speed. It's been too linear which is unusual. I think we'll either stop and correct soon, or accelerate towards 1000 with growing volume.
102  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 01, 2014, 02:42:50 PM
New poll:

700 by Friday?

At this rate, 700 by Tuesday - if not tomorrow evening.
103  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: June 01, 2014, 12:52:28 PM
Hi all..

Thank you rpietila for tha high quality TA.. very appreciated.

Im very bullish but not as bullish as 300k/btc..



When does rpietila think it will hit $300K?

He does not give a specific timeframe for such prediction. Rather he calculates probabilities of being at such a price at any given time.

The current trendline says the highest probabilities of hitting 300K are in two years, around end of June 2016. But there will be a fairly long period during which the probability of hitting 300K is significant : from about end of 2015 to end of 2016, depending on when the bull runs and crashes will occur.

This is if the trendline does not have to be redrawn by that time of course.

104  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: June 01, 2014, 08:57:27 AM
$1,000 is likely to be a very brief consolidation like $200 was

My hypothesis is that we will fail the first attempt at 1000 USD, rebounding strongly and falling back to 800. People will be calling the end of the rally and that's when it will actually start. From 800 to 5000.

 
105  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 01, 2014, 07:37:44 AM
Why would Yuan collapse? It's as good as ever.

Huge banking sector bubble similar to japan in the late 80's



The whole world is in bubble and no one knows when and if things will collapse. Many well-known people (banking, hedge funds) are saying China will collapse, USA will collapse, Japan will collapse, EU will collapse, stock market will collapse, etc., but so far they are 100% wrong for many years since financial crisis and people listening to them are losing money not participating in the markets!

Some are even saying BTC has no future and is doomed to fail, but 100x gain in one year shows you how no one has a clue what's going on. I am just saying markets are irrational and things can go on like this for years and years.

 Huobi is currently $10 higher than that of stamp. Will China take lead for this rally again? If so, why China always takes lead?

Irration does not explain this. There must be something else behind.

Capital controls actually make bitcoin more attractive to wealthy chinese than to wealthy people living in free capital countries. People in free capital countries know they can enjoy their money wherever they go in the world. People in China not. What is better for them than to hold some of their wealth in BTC ?
106  Economy / Speculation / Re: This forum is full of future millionaires on: June 01, 2014, 07:18:33 AM
anyone holding over 10 bitcoin today will probably have 1 million USD (in today's purchasing power) in 10-20 years.
most of the fiat pundits who mock bitcoin today will be eating their hat when the USD finally implodes.
be glad you are lucky enough to be here in this moment in time when bitcoin is first invented, it will be quite a story to tell...

I suspect 10 BTC worth 1,000,000 USD (in 2014 purchasing power) will happen way sooner than 10-20 years. As for the USD imploding I doubt it, more like USD keeping 95% of today's value or more. As for an implosion, gold is the far more likely candidate in a brutal bear market. The fiat pundits will just sit by and watch a massive transfer of Austrian / Libertarian wealth from gold to Bitcoin.

Really...10 BTC to make anyone a millionaire sooner then 10 years?  Not doubting it will happen but how soon do you think?

USD has about 2% a year inflation according to the US Federal Reserve. It is very possible for 1 BTC to be worth 100,000 USD before the USD's purchasing power drops below 95% of its 2014 levels.

2% is the official inflation rate. The real one is about 10% if we use the methods of measuring inflation in the past.
Don't be fooled by "official" stats. Inflation is running at 10% and will accelerate from here.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42551209

107  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 01, 2014, 06:54:40 AM
I can't imagine how average Joes [in China] are still brave enough to flow in with pboc's gun on the back?
I don't think that average Joe clients are under any pressure or threat.  At most they may have their bank accounts closed if they manage to use them to trade bitcoins.  If there will be penalties, they should fall only on card processors, exchanges, brokers etc..

Hm, clearly the money flow is not cut out but it isn't sufficient for why China is taking lead again.

Why China is taking the lead again, even though money flow in is more complicated than other areas?

-Chinese are real bitcoin believers?
-chinese are more greedy?
-chinese whales are special?

What else?

Maybe because China has a population of like 1 billion.  Even if a less percent of the Chinese use bitcoin, it is still a greater number than in the west.

You mean 1.35 billion.
108  Economy / Speculation / Re: This forum is full of future millionaires on: June 01, 2014, 05:58:35 AM
Massive adoption by nearly everyone in most major economies would bring the price of Bitcoin to 1 million USD and more. I don't say it will happen, but if it happens, this is the kind of figure we are looking at. Not 100K.

Strong inflation of the FIAT currencies which is happening right now and accelerating would also multiply the nominal value of Bitcoin over the years. If real inflation reaches more than 20%, which it will, we are looking more into 10 million USD per BTC in the best case scenario within 10-20 years.

But full adoption is not a certainty of course. However, even a 5% adoption can bring the value of bitcoin to 100 000 in the next few years.

100K and 1 mill are simply arbitrary values with no meaning without mathematics. I simply said 100K because OP was assuming that those with 10BTC or more would have at least 1 mill and I gave a scenario that I was fairly sure would suffice. I doubt anyone would be capable of actually estimating the value of Bitcoin given a specific number of people using it on a day to day basis. For all you and I know it could be 10 million.

I'd tend to disagree with that statement - it seems to be a bit exaggerated. Do you have any maths to actually suggest a USD$10million value in that timeframe?

The math is quite simple.

The Gross Global Product is a bit more than 50 trillions USD today. Let's take pessimistic views and let's assume the Gross Global Product to remain constant in real terms. If we assume a 20% real rate of inflation over the next 10 years, it would be 300 trillions USD in 10 years (USD would be worth 6 times less in real terms).

If BTC reaches full adoption (which is of course a very optimistic idea - and what does it mean exactly?), we can take a very conservative approach and estimate that the market cap would need to be about 50% of the annual gross global product, so 150 trillions USD.

If we assume that the total number of BTC in existence in 10 years will be around 15 millions, we have a very simple calculation : 150 trillion / 15 million = 10 million USD.

Of course these 10 millions would be worth "only" 1.67 million USD in today's real purchasing power.

But in such an optimistic scenario, I believe that the figure of 50% of the global GDP market cap would be too low. Most people would be keeping their wealth in BTC as opposed to FIAT, treasuries and stocks due to the real inflation. So we are looking more into a market cap of 200% of global GDP which would be 600 trillions USD in 10 years or 40 million USD per BTC.
109  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: June 01, 2014, 05:20:34 AM
That breakout chart looks crazy. Those green candles look like penis in erection phase  Grin

Haha, I would say "overextended" but when you take a look at the november rally, Bitcoin don't care.
one more 3day green bar in this rally?

Why only one more ? Is it really going to rest before the 1000 resistance ?
110  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Time is Running Out for Mark Williams Prediction of a $10 Bitcoin on: June 01, 2014, 02:46:51 AM
I could never understand how that fellow received all that press. Anybody can toss out some predictions, making some wild guesses.

Not many people dare to put their reputation on the line with such an unlikely prediction.
Even if he believes so, he would not have made this public prediction if he didn't get paid to do so, or he must be extraordinarily stupid.
111  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Time is Running Out for Mark Williams Prediction of a $10 Bitcoin on: June 01, 2014, 02:42:49 AM
The only chance of Bitcoin dropping to $10 is if an early investor tosses 2-4 million coins on the market all at once.

probably not even then.


Nobody has 2-4 million coins.

Bitcoin creator supposedly has 980 000 BTC. But they have not moved or been used once in many years, fuelling speculation that they might be lost.
Anyway, no sane investor would dump all his coins at once on the market.
112  Economy / Speculation / Re: This forum is full of future millionaires on: June 01, 2014, 02:36:44 AM
It's a nice idea, but really I don't believe we'll reach $100,00 USD a coin anytime soon. I doubt it'd even be in my lifetime. It would take massive adoption by nearly everyone in most major economies for us to have the price spike to that point - and realistically I doubt that will be the case until we can convince laypeople to use Bitcoin (considering that most don't understand it).


Massive adoption by nearly everyone in most major economies would bring the price of Bitcoin to 1 million USD and more. I don't say it will happen, but if it happens, this is the kind of figure we are looking at. Not 100K.

Strong inflation of the FIAT currencies which is happening right now and accelerating would also multiply the nominal value of Bitcoin over the years. If real inflation reaches more than 20%, which it will, we are looking more into 10 million USD per BTC in the best case scenario within 10-20 years.

But full adoption is not a certainty of course. However, even a 5% adoption can bring the value of bitcoin to 100 000 in the next few years.
113  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Which one is more secure online or offline wallet on: May 31, 2014, 01:39:55 PM

offline wallet is a good place to saving bitcoin but when you need to be active on the market offline wallet is useless, send extra money to offline cold storage and keep remaining amount online. use a safe computer or use secure wallet. you can protect your bitcoin by sms authentication on asmoney.com


Sms authentication is not helping that much. If asmoney is hacked or if its CEO is a scammer or who knows what, your BTC is gone.


This is why only a solution like bitgo is truly secure. Even if bitgo is hacked, hackers cannot access your coins...
114  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Which one is more secure online or offline wallet on: May 31, 2014, 01:37:59 PM
bitgo.com is one of the most secure way of storing bitcoin.

They cannot steal your coins, even if they disappear, you still can access your coins, even if your computer gets hacked hackers won't be able to steal your coins, if your house burns to the ground you won't have your cold stored coins disappear, etc...

Basically, nothing can happen to your coins with bitgo - and it's of course free.

It is more secure than cold wallet because it does not depend on any hardware or paper.

It is more secure than online wallets because it cannot be stolen from the third party without your signature.

Yet it is as flexible as an online wallet.


From Bitgo's site:


"How It Works
 3 unique keys

Three keys protect your wallet. We hold one key, you control a second key, and a third key is held as a backup offline.

 2 keys to unlock

You need two keys to access your Bitcoin. This means there is no single point of attack and our wallet is virtually hack proof.

 1 BitGo Wallet

Best-in-class protection for Bitcoin holdings.

Read our whitepaper about multi-signature wallets."


So it's two keys to unlock. Who knows the third key, both Bitgo and the owner of the Bitcoin? If so they could steal the coin.

The third key is only in the possession of the owner who prints it or saves an encrypted version of it. He would need it only if Bitgo disappears somehow.
115  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Time is Running Out for Mark Williams Prediction of a $10 Bitcoin on: May 31, 2014, 01:25:09 PM
The guy confirms his views :

http://www.coindesk.com/mark-t-williams-bitcoin-bulls-time-will-vindicate-prediction/

“grossly over-inflated” due to what he views as its “concentrated ownership, artificially limited supply and overhyped demand”.

Talk about solid arguments !

Shall we take them one by one ?
Concentrated ownership does not create scarcity by itself. It is the anticipation of future value that creates scarcity, not ownership concentration.
If there was poor future utility/value, people would sell wether they are few or many.
If the anticipation of future value is great, people avoid spending it - even if they are millions.
The big BTC owners are not keeping it for themselves to manipulate the price up. Instead, they keep it because they anticipate a higher value in the future.

Big owners have been mostly pushing the price DOWN, not up. They did so by diversifying away from BTC as the value was going up over the years and months.

Now the "artificially limited supply". What he means by that ? Again scarcity from ownership concentration ? Impossibility to create them out of thin air ?
I have no idea, but I see a market well supplied with lots of BTC sellers.

About overhyped demand, well, I find we are quite far from hype. The media is quite dubious about BTC and is happier to relay pessimism than optimism. There is more fear and misunderstandings than hype surrounding bitcoin, imho.
116  Other / Off-topic / Re: Best energy drink on: May 31, 2014, 08:00:22 AM
By far the best energy drink I tasted is Maca Blast.
It was in Peru but they are starting to export.

Tastes like sweet champagne. Unbelievable. Feels like going back to Peru just for that one.

117  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 30, 2014, 05:03:34 PM
This and all the recent rallies are less a reflection of demand than fear of sending coins to exchanges.

So what increased that fear of sending coins to exchanges in the last 10 days ?
118  Economy / Economics / Re: Slippery Slope's Million Dollar Logistic Model on: May 30, 2014, 03:40:06 AM
BTC probably can't go to zero any more, IMHO, since there's clearly a very solid "transaction utility" to the system as it works (very well!) today, and as many bitcoin evangelists often say, "The Blockchain Cannot Be Uninvented".

But transaction utility alone might be sustained even at current (or much lower) BTC prices... putting the kibosh on this $1M BTC idea?

Thoughts?

What makes bitcoin valuable is not the "transaction utility" but the synergy of "transaction utility" and "solid storage of value utility".
Bitcoin is absolutely great for both functions.

If more people and entities recognise this fact, the price can only rise.

Yes transaction utility could be met at the current price, but not the storage of value utility.

People have a need to transact, but they have a need to hold their wealth as well. Many people want or will want to diversify their holdings away from paper holdings such as fiat accounts, treasuries and stocks. This is especially the case at a time when the valuation of paper holdings is at an all time high relative to their fundamentals. And at a time when governments are passing laws to have the right to seize private funds to cover their liabilities to society.




119  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: May 30, 2014, 01:52:36 AM

This price is only marginally affected by the amount of gold above ground or the number of brilliant and rare NotLambchop originals.
Simple.  

Now you now.

The current price is not affected, no. We are talking about a future price in the hypothesis of success and full adoption as a global store of value and unit of transfer.

It is not that the quantity of above ground gold changes anything, but it is about the wealth that it represents today in relation with the functions that it plays today.

First, let's deal with a few misconceptions.

The amount of gold in the world does not represent the total "wealth" of the world.  Nor does the combined total of gold and silver.  Nor does the combined total of gold, silver, cowrie shells and NotLambchop originals.

Another strange loop you enter into when giving (total fiat /total bitcoin) ratios is "what happens with total fiat after such an exchange?"
In other words, if each Bitcoin, in a quest for world domination. is sold for the equal share of the world's fiat supply, what is that huge pile of fiat worth after the sale?  Nothing?  Than why would the seller of bitcoin make such an unprofitable deal?
Half of what it was worth before the sale?
And what of the gold, which wasn't part of that exchange?

Such fundamental misunderstanding here...

Where did I or anyone say that the gold represents the total wealth of the world ?

"what happens with total fiat after such an exchange?"
Why would anything happen to the fiat used to buy bitcoin after an exchange ? Why would it be nothing after the sale ?

Who enters into strange loops ?

Full bitcoin adoption means less use of fiat for transactions and storage of value, and less use of gold for storage of value, and less use of real estate for storage of value, and a comparable lowering of fiat and gold value and real estate value relative to total global wealth. Indeed, bitcoin, a new player takes these functions and "steals" a % in the representation of global wealth. Global wealth remains the same, but what is used to transact it and represent it changes.

Your points didn't add anything to the discussion and were only about bashing others about poor understanding while showing no argument whatsoever.
If you could write a post with some logic or honesty and without blaming others for poor understanding I will reconsider the troll label that was just stick on "NotLambchop".
120  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: May 29, 2014, 05:28:33 PM

This price is only marginally affected by the amount of gold above ground or the number of brilliant and rare NotLambchop originals.
Simple.  

Now you now.

The current price is not affected, no. We are talking about a future price in the hypothesis of success and full adoption as a global store of value and unit of transfer.

It is not that the quantity of above ground gold changes anything, but it is about the wealth that it represents today in relation with the functions that it plays today.



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