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1061  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Given a peer ip addr, can i force it to use a forked blockchain silently? on: April 22, 2013, 02:17:58 PM
Sure.  All you need to do is prevent that node from connecting to any honest nodes, and feed it a few blocks at the current difficulty.
1062  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 22, 2013, 11:25:24 AM
I get nervous with deterministic wallets.  I very much prefer to generate really random keys for each transaction so that they are totally unrelated.

But, that is silly.  Done right, like the way Armory does it, the wallet sequence is at least as secure as everything else in bitcoin.
1063  Economy / Economics / Re: Interest and Bitcoin - Impossible? on: April 21, 2013, 09:44:12 PM
Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'll just note that Steve Keen has demonstrated pretty conclusively that interest is totally compatible with a fixed or declining hard money supply.

Typically, these questions come from people that confuse money with wealth, and/or disregard the passage of time.

Money is a tool to facilitate exchanges of wealth.  A loan is, disregarding the bookkeeping done in money terms, an exchange of X wealth today in return for X+Y wealth in the future.  The ratio of money to wealth at various points during the loan are not really important to the loan itself, they are only a factor in the decision to borrow or lend or not, and the terms.

I'm going to step out on a limb here, but...

I've not read Steve Keen, and have no intention of it.

What I am interested in there is if you can quickly answer 1 simple question...

Does he talk only about interest, or does he mix it with fractional reserve banking?

You might want to actually read some of his papers or books, particularly the ones on this topic.  Or, you could just watch videos of his lectures.

Please note that I said "a fixed or declining hard money supply", which automatically precludes inflation, whether by fractional reserve or other means.
1064  Economy / Economics / Re: Interest and Bitcoin - Impossible? on: April 21, 2013, 03:41:10 PM
Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'll just note that Steve Keen has demonstrated pretty conclusively that interest is totally compatible with a fixed or declining hard money supply.

Typically, these questions come from people that confuse money with wealth, and/or disregard the passage of time.

Money is a tool to facilitate exchanges of wealth.  A loan is, disregarding the bookkeeping done in money terms, an exchange of X wealth today in return for X+Y wealth in the future.  The ratio of money to wealth at various points during the loan are not really important to the loan itself, they are only a factor in the decision to borrow or lend or not, and the terms.
1065  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [SOLVED] Sender-Address of ScriptSig on: April 21, 2013, 12:07:56 PM
You are setting yourself up for trouble.  Bitcoin contains no concept of a "sender".
1066  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: defending ahead the p2p nature of bitcoin - blending hashcash & scrypt on: April 19, 2013, 08:47:31 PM
Quote
and do nothing whatsoever to exclude the people that some would like excluded.

It would do something about the people we want to exclude, that was my point/intention anyway: there are limits to custom hardware optimization where it becomes just too expensive and you're better off buying or making a faster CPU.  Intel is a target you're chasing at the speed of Moore's law.  Particularly if the algorithm is changing every 6 months in interesting and novel ways.  Imagine someone come to you with a mountain of money and says build me this custom CPU in 3 months (so there's three months left to start mining).  Maybe you cant do it in time to repay the investment.  Maybe you cant do it in the timeframe with any amount of money.  Even all of it - there are complexity and science limits for hw gurus and chip fab people etc.

You are assuming that the investment must be repaid in terms that you understand.  Maybe someone is rich and just wants to mess with the network.  It seems unwise to make ourselves vulnerable to that sort of thing merely because we wouldn't take advantage of it ourselves.
1067  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Reminder: zero-conf is not safe; $500USD reward posted for replace-by-fee patch on: April 19, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
Retail will want transactions satisfying:

Time to verify: < 10 seconds
Risk of charge-back/double spend: < 1%

If we change 0-conf double spends from possible to trivial, it will no longer be possible to satisfy those constraints with bitcoin.

The problem is that it isn't up to us.  There is no "we".  No one on the entire planet has the ability to prevent miners from picking transactions according to their own criteria.  If anyone is making assumptions about transactions that are not backed by actual, verifiable work, they are doing it wrong, and it is only through good fortune that they haven't been burned yet, assuming that they haven't been burned already.
1068  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Reminder: zero-conf is not safe; $500USD reward posted for replace-by-fee patch on: April 19, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
It is proven they are not safe today, ignoring any proposed changes.
Not safe compared to what?

Most merchants out in the real world already accept payment methods that can be trivially reversed and manage to make it work.

Not safe compared to how safe people think they are, of course.
1069  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Mining Difficulty Attack against Bitcoin on: April 19, 2013, 02:12:14 PM
One of the central assumptions of bitcoin is that a large fraction of available hashing power is active on the network at all times.  If that stops being true, the system doesn't work.  Fortunately, there doesn't appear to be any danger of that happening.

This has been happening to scamcoins since forever.  If a system is pointless, it will never attract enough work to protect it against a bored bitcoin miner with enough power to divert for amusement purposes.

FYI, the potential "fixes" to the problem actually make the situation worse, as ArtForz showed a long, long time ago.
1070  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Decoupling transactions and POW on: April 19, 2013, 02:07:04 PM
I'm pretty sure this would lead to more forks, not less.  The time between sub-blocks is short relative to network latency, so the sub-chain would be wildly more divergent than the current blockchain.  Essentially, pockets of miners would be working on their own sub-chains, with no way to reconcile with the broad network until a real block hit.  At best, it would be pointless, at worst, it would lead to chaos.
1071  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Reminder: zero-conf is not safe; $500USD reward posted for replace-by-fee patch on: April 19, 2013, 01:56:14 PM
Not all miners are dependent on the security of zero-conf transactions.  Many of them will just do what's best for their bottom line.

The incentives might be fixable by a rule change.  For example, if the rule was to not build on a block that has a double spend for 30 seconds, unless the old transaction is at least 24 hours old, then miners who broadcast those blocks are hurt.  The incentives for a miner is to always include the transactions that they see first, since those are likely to to be one that the other miners saw first.  If anything it would create an incentive not to include either of them.

It also creates an incentive to distribute info about double spends between miners.

Better rule changes have been proposed for better reasons, all rejected.  Chain validation is very nearly stateless for a reason.
1072  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: defending ahead the p2p nature of bitcoin - blending hashcash & scrypt on: April 19, 2013, 01:46:00 PM
I'm going to take the pro-SHA/pro-ASIC stance.

Having a single simple hashing algorithm is better than having a difficult one, or having a pool of them chosen randomly.  The reason is that it keeps the barrier to entry lowish for new ASIC producers.

You simply cannot make an algorithm that is, in general, resistant to ASICs.  If a general purpose CPU can do it, then a purpose-built CPU can do it faster.  The best you can do is make it expensive for someone to develop an effective ASIC.  Also, time is money, so if you use a random pool of algorithms, then the only people that will have ASICs are those that can afford to develop them quickly.

Building an ASIC for SHA-256 is pretty simple.  At least 3 different groups have already done it, on shoestring budgets and somewhat quickly.  Increase that to maybe dozens if you include the not-suitable-for-bitcoin streaming hasher chips that are commercially available.  If (heh) they abuse their position as first movers, the barrier to their competition is very, very low, on the order of tens of thousands of dollars and several months to get started.

Making ASIC development more difficult will keep out the people that we want to include, and do nothing whatsoever to exclude the people that some would like excluded.
1073  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Support for Hierarchical Multi-Signature Transactions? on: April 19, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
The script system should be able to handle nearly arbitrary complexity in signing schemes.

Right now, the bulk of the network only supports a few simple script types, so the best you can do is M-of-N.

The good news is that M-of-N can, with a little cleverness, emulate just about any more complex scheme.
1074  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pywallet: manage your wallets/addresses/keys/tx's on: April 19, 2013, 11:43:16 AM
Deleting a transaction from your wallet does not remove it from the rest of the network.  If it is still floating around out there, your node will get it back from the network and put it back in your wallet.

For best results, you need to unplug your network cable before starting bitcoin after deleting the transaction.  Then you can create a new transaction.  Be absolutely sure that the new transaction uses at least one input used by the old transaction, or you'll end up paying double.
1075  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proposed solution to "lost coins" on: April 18, 2013, 06:44:31 PM
To me it seems that just declaring them unspendable is the option that changes incentives/rules the least.  Giving the coins to miners changes the rules.

Actually, leaving it alone is the option that changes the rules the least.  Putting a lifetime on coins is a huge change, regardless of what happens when they expire.
1076  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin QT Client - Import Private key via QR Code from Paper Wallet? on: April 18, 2013, 02:54:00 PM
I use a wasp scanner.  It emulates a keyboard over USB and can read barcodes and QR codes.

My paper wallets include QR codes, barcodes and OCR-A text versions of everything.  A WIF in barcode form is too long for my reader to take in a single shot, so I break that into pieces to be scanned sequentially.

I like having the client import a variety of text formats, but I don't see the conversion from printed form to text as a good thing to include.
1077  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Point of Attack: Miners can steal from retail on: April 18, 2013, 12:52:19 PM
If only there were third parties that were willing to handle these transactions for us...  Perhaps they could collect a fee for assuming the risk inherent in retail.

How about this?  The customer walks in, picks stuff out, goes to checkout.  They swipe a small magnetic card through a sensor to authenticate.  The POS terminal then checks online to see if a third party is willing to take on the risk based on that customer and the purchase amount.  The purchase amount is then either deducted to the customer's pre-paid balance with that third party, or added to a debt owed to that third party by the customer.

Any of this sounding familiar?

edit: added the word "retail" in the first paragraph.  Damn tablet browser.
1078  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proposed solution to "lost coins" on: April 18, 2013, 12:46:40 PM
Bitcoins are infinitely divisible. Just update protocol to store value in a 128 bit integer instead of the current 64 bit integer. That would satisfy the decimal place need for a loooong time. When you bring back lost coins, you dilute the aggregate value of everyone's bitcoins, similar to what happens when the Fed prints USD.
I see this come up a lot, Bitcoins are not infinitely divisible.

Quote from: Bitcoin Specs
Each bitcoin is subdivided into 100 million smaller units called satoshis, defined by eight decimal places.
0.00000001 is the smallest amount you can spend. If you remove the decimal point it becomes easier to visualize with whole numbers.

There is a 2,100,000,000,000,000 max cap for currency. As of this posting, every block found creates 2,500,000,000 currency.

64bit unsigned integer can achieve 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 or 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 signed in size.

So let's compare the two:
18446744073709551615 unsigned
vs
2100000000000000

or
9223372036854775807 signed
vs
2100000000000000


As you can see, there is plenty of room in the 64bit space for more currency, not a limitation on storage space for the digits. The 21 million limit is just an arbitrary number chosen out of thin air. Unless the rules of the system are changed again to use more digits, I don't think you can spend a transaction for 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000001 and it get processed by the network.

I'm sorry, but you have this backwards.

The fundamental unit in bitcoin is 1 BTC, not 0.00000001 BTC.  Right now, the protocol operates in integer units of 0.00000001 BTC, but that is an accident of history (that is, the scaling factor in the first release was 100000000, and we haven't changed it yet).

Changing the scaling factor in the client would be no big deal, because 1 BTC before would still be 1 BTC after.  Renormalizing in the other direction, so that 1 satoshi before = 1 satoshi after, but 1 BTC before = 0.001 BTC after would be a disaster (and thus never gain any support).
1079  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Entropy during private key generation on: April 18, 2013, 12:30:57 PM
You might want to buy an entropykey.

Or, a newish Intel CPU with the RDRAND instruction, but that won't feed the entropy pool in linux directly, so you'd need an offline key generator that was written to use it.
1080  Economy / Economics / Re: what keeps the price down? on: April 18, 2013, 03:32:41 AM
I think Adam Smith would disagree with you, but I respect your right to your opinion.  I also agree with you partially- the crowd is often not logical but trades based on fear and greed.

It has been well over a decade since I read Wealth of Nations, but I don't recall him spending much time trying to puzzle out daily moves in speculative markets.

Also, you totally misunderstood me.  Fear and greed are boogeymen just as much as DDOS and government intervention are.  Why? is not a question that has a meaningful answer.  I will repeat my main point: bitcoin is small.  You'd gain more insight by asking why does this fleck of dust rise and fall as it floats in a still room?
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