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10741  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free on: July 21, 2021, 08:10:18 AM
I would like to suggest the default message that request a fee for whitelisting should also come with an info of this development.
That was theymos' intention indeed.

Quote
For some reasons this might need a bit of clarity by LoyceV because, my idea of Vouching for someone brings me to the point of standing in for a shortee or like putting in your foot to say, I trust and what ever effect that might arise from this user can be pinned on me. I really hope this isn't the case because, humans do change and the user you vouched for might be good today but turns to something else tomorrow.
I added the "vouching part" because of dkbit98's post. In my opinion it's quite simple: if you vouch for someone, you need to trust they're not a spammer. If you have to worry about what they might do later on, then just don't vouch for them.

Quote
Another issue I'm finding with Vouching someone is the fact that, from the way the forum works, you automatically project yourself to be studied against that user for the build up of a relationship. Either as an alt or merit wise and any evil at all. It doesn't seem so idea to me should tred this part.
If you're vouching for a bunch of bounty hunters, this might be true. But if it's someone on the Collectibles board, a vouch adds credibility.

This is the same as saying it's a personal judgment thing
Of course it is, that's all I can do. But I'm not the only one doing this, so if I don't Whitelist a certain user, someone else may do it.

Quote
there should be some sort of requirements to be a voucher, so everybody would have a chance.
I don't want Bitcointalk users to behave in a certain way to earn certain benefits. It's a bit like running a signature campaign: the campaign manager gets to pick whoever he wants.

Quote
Tagging a defaulter? Like oh yeh this user abused the whitelist system? Is it? Or is there something I'm getting wrong about your answer?
Well, if someone would vouch for a bunch of accounts that start posting malware, that would reflect badly on the user. But let's not get to that, this topic is meant to help the users who don't deserve to a Proxyban. It's not meant to test the limits.

Do you know why we get whitelisted for all accounts? I thought that the link would only appear to newbie members, in other words what is the point of whitelisting high rank members. Huh
For accounts with less than 500 Activity it also reduces the time limit between posts (or reports). I don't think it adds anything for higher ranks.
10742  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free on: July 20, 2021, 08:44:06 PM
1. If I vouch for someone and he/she end up getting banned what chances do I have to vouch again?
Your chances to vouch decrease if your judgement is flawed.

Quote
2.  And what are the criteria an established members must posses to be a voucher? Is it by reputation? By rank? By personal judgment?
It depends Wink I assume an established member would know they'd qualify.

Quote
3. What are the prophylactic measures put in place to make sure this system is not hijacked /abused by the vouchers?
The DT-system Cheesy

Quote
We know everything is tradeable nowadays.
I like to think my loyalty is not for sale.
10743  Other / Meta / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free on: July 20, 2021, 07:34:54 PM
Pay the evil fee to an escrow, and if they are not banned in their first 30 days/after their first 100 posts/whatever, the payment is returned. Bonus points for doing so over Lightning to keep fees low.
There's 2 problems with this:
1. It makes me look very shady.
2. I can't verify the evil fee they have to pay.

Quote
The problem is that unless it is someone I knew from outside the forum (and no one I know outside the forum knows my forum handle), then it is near impossible to differentiate between a user who has previously been banned and someone who has just been unlucky with their IP address/is using Tor.
True. I don't want to announce my criteria in public (nor do I have strict criteria yet), so I'll leave it up to the user to convince me.

Quote
Perhaps if the person could prove ownership of a Reddit account, Twitter account, or similar, which is in good standing and has displayed good technical knowledge, but such users would be incredibly rare and even then it isn't a guarantee.
All good suggestions Smiley But I don't want to limit it to users with good technical knowledge.

I'll see how this turns out. So far, I had one request, which I rejected.
10744  Other / Meta / Re: How does evil fee makes sense? on: July 20, 2021, 06:33:59 PM
I can also confirm that the same thing happened to two of my friends, who were interested in crypto and I wanted to help them register on this forum and get involved in the crypto community.
If this happens again (or if you still know their usernames), please post in Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free so I (or someone else) can whitelist them:
2. Get someone to vouch for you
If an established member knows you personally, they can post your username in this topic for whitelisting.
10745  Other / Meta / Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free on: July 20, 2021, 04:13:43 PM
Only abused IP ranges have to pay a fee. The fee is an anti-abuse measure, and it is not meant to be (and isn't) much of a source of revenue.

If any very-veteran members want to volunteer, I can give you the ability to whitelist users. (All Staff can already whitelist users, as well.) Perhaps then someone could create a topic like "List of email addresses for people who can whitelist you for free", which I could link-to on the evil fee page. However, these IPs have evil for a reason. If it was sufficient for them to just solve a captcha or something, I'd have them do that. Before whitelisting someone, you have to do something to be pretty sure that they're not evading a ban and just going to get banned again. You may get the impression from complaints on the forum that everyone hits the fee and it's never warranted, but this is selection bias: the fee is more rare, and the vast majority of accounts that hit it should not be whitelisted.
(that topic is locked already)

I'm posting in Meta to get the attention from established members to help Newbies find their way to Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free.

Also this:
If other users with Whitelisting "powers" want to add their email to the list, please post in this topic.
10746  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free on: July 20, 2021, 04:02:47 PM
(sorry, I can't continue the numbering in a new post)

Statistics
  • Users who never posted: 143
  • Total Merit earned: 12730
  • Total users banned: 8

Users whitelisted by me without a request (not counted in Statistics)
10747  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - get whitelisted for free on: July 20, 2021, 04:02:43 PM
Users whitelisted by me after a request
10748  Other / Beginners & Help / Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - email to get whitelisted for free on: July 20, 2021, 03:59:04 PM
Bitcointalk uses proxybans against spammers:
When you register, the IP that you used when you submitted the registration form is used to calculate your evilness. The more frequently this IP or its neighbors were banned, the more evil is associated with your account. The amount of evil associated with an IP decays slowly over time, but the amount of evil associated with an account does not. You must pay or be manually whitelisted to enable posting on one of these "banned" accounts.
Sometimes, innocent people become collateral damage. This is generally considered as unfair and very unwelcoming.
Thanks to theymos, I can now Whitelist users, so I can help to correct this.

Background
Only abused IP ranges have to pay a fee. The fee is an anti-abuse measure, and it is not meant to be (and isn't) much of a source of revenue.

If any very-veteran members want to volunteer, I can give you the ability to whitelist users. (All Staff can already whitelist users, as well.) Perhaps then someone could create a topic like "List of email addresses for people who can whitelist you for free", which I could link-to on the evil fee page. However, these IPs have evil for a reason. If it was sufficient for them to just solve a captcha or something, I'd have them do that. Before whitelisting someone, you have to do something to be pretty sure that they're not evading a ban and just going to get banned again. You may get the impression from complaints on the forum that everyone hits the fee and it's never warranted, but this is selection bias: the fee is more rare, and the vast majority of accounts that hit it should not be whitelisted.

Freedom!
Welcome to Bitcointalk! I'll give you a very short introduction of what makes Bitcointalk unique. First: note that scams are not moderated! If something looks too good to be true, you are going to get scammed. Use common sense, and don't trust random strangers on the internet with your money.
Bitcointalk offers more freedom than any other forum I know. You can choose to be an asshole or you can be a nice person. It's entirely up to you how you want to come across. If you're a snowflake, you might get offended. That's okay.
You're allowed to earn money or do business here. Your freedom is mainly limited by the forum rules.
Warning: unlike most websites, Bitcointalk does not allow plagiarism. This will get you banned! It's very easy to prevent: if you quote someone, give them the credit they deserve.

Banned?
If your account was banned for breaking the forum rules, you deserve the units of evil and aren't allowed to create a new account. Please don't ask me to whitelist you.

How to get your Proxyban removed?
I can only whitelist you if I know you exist. There are 2 options:
1. Convince me
Send me an email:
Code:
LoyceVswitzerland@protonmail.com
Now the tricky part: apart from including your Bitcointalk username, you'll need to convince me you deserve it. I know this sucks, and I hate jumping through hoops too. But it's the best I can do to help new Bitcointalk users without giving spammers a free pass. If you don't tell me your Bitcointalk username, I will ignore your email.
You don't need to send me your IP-address or real name. I can't believe I have to add this: DO NOT send me a picture of a passport!
Or (not "and") email someone else:
Code:
sfr.edits@gmail.com
Code:
whitelist.welsh@protonmail.com
Code:
hugeblack_whitelist@protonmail.com
Code:
whitelistby_upgrade00@protonmail.com

2. Get someone to vouch for you
I know several personal examples of people who I invited to join bitcointalk forum and they couldn't registered because they got evil fee notification and asked to pay with Bitcoin.
If an established member knows you personally, they can post your username in this topic for whitelisting. Don't PM me, keep it public. I won't accept vouches from for instance a bounty hunter with 1000 Activity and 0 earned Merit.

Ease PM restrictions
PM-restrictions are very tight on Newbies (thanks to spammers in the past):
ActivityMax recipientsMax recipients if whitelistedMax PMs per hourMax PMs per hour if whitelistedMax PMs per dayMax PMs per day if whitelisted
02101402120
15310104015120
If you're a Newbie with a legitimate reason to increase this, please post in this topic.
If you're an established member talking to a Newbie who can't message you back: please post!

Full transparency
I'll post all whitelisted users in this topic. They can expect scrutiny. If you're a real user and don't deserve the "evil" label, this scrutiny can lead to earning some Merit. If you turn out to be a spammer, I'll report you myself.
Another reason for full transparency is to assess my judgement on who to whitelist.

Alternative
Instead of getting whitelisted or paying for evil fees, you can opt to buy a Copper membership.
If other users with Whitelisting "powers" want to add their email to the list, please post in this topic.
Newbies: don't spam the same email to the entire list, emailing one person should be enough.

Pay the evil fee by exchanging altcoins
I feel like I'm Bitcointalk's helpdesk now: so many people assume it's my site. It's not!
People ask help in paying small amounts of Bitcoin, or ask if I (yes "I") accept altcoins. I usually suggest FixedFloat.com to exchange small amounts of altcoin to Bitcoin at a low fee, but just in case: Do Your Own Research before trusting any site.
I also recommend using your own Bitcoin wallet (such as Electrum) instead of exchanges with very high withdrawal fees, especially the sneaky ones like Binance who try to convince people to accept their own made-up tokens instead of real Bitcoin. And again: do your own research, and make sure you don't download malware.

Disclaimer
I'll use my own judgement who to whitelist. Please make a compelling argument.
This topic is "work in progress". If I need to add something, please let me know.

No spam
Self-moderated to prevent spam and off-topic posts.

Don't forget
Whitelisting is a not a license to spam. You will be immediately banned if you're found spamming, even if you bought a copper membership (and you will not be refunded).
10749  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented on: July 20, 2021, 11:29:51 AM
support for bc1 segwit addresses.

I think that privacy will be improved
I got curious, so I checked how many addresses are funded with each respective balance.

Addresses starting with 1:
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mBTC

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
500
512
1000
1024
2000
2048
4000
4096
8000
8192
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Addresses
(Feb 1, 2021)
217511
52314
24057
12356
5826
3254
1596
1125
555
18307
609
49056
366
8074
74
2010
140
640
29
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Addresses
(July 20, 2021)
219827
50093
22447
11263
5073
2969
1584
1021
486
16975
455
46783
333
7104
57
1689
134
577
26
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Addresses starting with 3:
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mBTC

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
500
512
1000
1024
2000
2048
4000
4096
8000
8192
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Addresses
(Feb 1, 2021)
41796
14584
6657
3430
1976
794
209
125
56
15103
18
28731
7
8143
4
2073
2
571
1
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Addresses
(July 20, 2021)
45935
17118
5987
3167
2051
818
202
129
53
13689
20
25668
6
6690
1
1746
2
550
1
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Addresses starting with bc1q:
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mBTC

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
500
512
1000
1024
2000
2048
4000
4096
8000
8192
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Addresses
(Feb 1, 2021)
17688
5459
1746
980
1247
198
69
41
15
8420
6
10319
3
2760
0
686
0
146
0
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Addresses
(July 20, 2021)
39124
8633
3514
1887
1445
637
405
202
175
11872
66
13402
74
3452
30
924
15
189
5
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10750  Other / Meta / Re: Enable posting by paying fee on: July 19, 2021, 08:39:57 PM
If any very-veteran members want to volunteer, I can give you the ability to whitelist users.
I'm willing to give this a shot.

Quote
Before whitelisting someone, you have to do something to be pretty sure that they're not evading a ban and just going to get banned again.
I'm not sure what would be my best approach for this, other than not posting my criteria publicly.
10751  Other / Meta / Re: The future of Bitcointalk: Low Ranking Top Merit earners in the past 30 days on: July 19, 2021, 11:05:12 AM
btw,If I choose this option, will it affect your search?
Nope, I don't re-scrape Copper Members' profiles.
10752  Economy / Reputation / Re: [Spammer Blacklist] The Shitlist on: July 19, 2021, 09:56:00 AM
Thank you actmyname, I have added the whole of your list to my distrust list.
Why?
Having posts deleted doesn't mean some of them can't leave accurate feedback. I'd say your Ignore list is a better place if you believe their posts aren't worth reading.
10753  Other / Meta / Re: The future of Bitcointalk: Low Ranking Top Merit earners in the past 30 days on: July 19, 2021, 08:58:51 AM
Hello sir, could you plz tell me my merit ranking?
You already guessed it:
Quote
By the way, if I wear Copper Member, will I be ranked?
Nope:
Copper Members are ignored (scraping their real rank is more work).
10754  Other / Meta / Re: Is Bitcointalk.org losing user base? on: July 19, 2021, 07:40:07 AM
There might be an argument to say that the evil fees are too high, and we should consider lowering them. I don't see any reason why someone should need to pay $20 or $30 to have the ability to post, and this is far above an amount that will deter the above described spammers.
Theymos agrees:
The fees actually paid (by people who are presumably not spammers) may be a bit high, though: I feel like it should be about a tenth of that.
10755  Other / Meta / Re: Enable posting by paying fee on: July 19, 2021, 07:37:47 AM
Normally, if the evil fee has been paid before, then the evil fee will still be subtracted from the copper membership fee charge while paying for coppper membership in which the evil fee is cancelled.
Copper membership includes whitelisting.
10756  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Keys stuck on my email... Help on: July 19, 2021, 07:33:37 AM
Protonmail stores your mail encrypted. Even if they would restore access to your mailbox for you, you wouldn't be able to read old emails without your old password.



General advice: don't use email (or any other third party) to store private keys, and don't make it your (only) recovery option.
10757  Other / Meta / Re: Enable posting by paying fee on: July 18, 2021, 06:59:17 PM
Hope he/she is not trying to make use of exchanges for the payment?
If that's the case, I'd be willing to make the payment for the new user in exchange for a common altcoin (say Litecoin). Feel free to send me a PM about this.
10758  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 18, 2021, 06:38:27 PM
Largest Grayscale unlocking is today. Second largest comes the day after tomorrow. A few more days of this relentless ball grating, guys. We're not all titanium trained Bawbs, but I'm sure we can all manage. Chin up!
I’ve been expecting paper hands to start a sell off today. Doesn’t seem to be happening yet. If we can close above $31,000 today then surely it’s the bottom and we can start going up again soon?
I stumbled upon the Grayscale thing several times in the past week, and it got me thinking: if some people are assuming this will lead to a drop in price, that also means at the same time others are assuming they can buy cheaper coins. So all in all it might not matter much, or could even lead to a price increase when it turns out nobody is dumping 16,000 Bitcoin on the market.
10759  Other / Meta / Re: Is Bitcointalk.org losing user base? on: July 18, 2021, 06:06:54 PM
Can anyone explain how accurate the data on the number of active users on the bitcointalk forum is based on the data displayed by bpip? I think this can be used as a guideline to assess the active user base if the accuracy rate reaches 95%.

Hover your mouse over the "?":
Quote
Profiles that have logged in within the last three months.

I also made Active users, top posters and most active topics in the past 1h, 24h and 7d for a more recent overview:
Active users and top posters in the past 1h, 24h and 7d
Active users and top posters in the past 1 hour: loyce.club/active/1h.html (updated 5 times per hour).
Active users and top posters in the past 24 hours: loyce.club/active (updated 4 times per day).
Active users and top posters in the past 7 days: loyce.club/active/7d.html (updated 2 times per day).

Active topics are much more discouraging:
Quote
Active topics in the past 1h, 24h and 7d
Active topics in the past 1 hour: loyce.club/active/topics1h.html (updated 5 times per hour).
Active topics in the past 24 hours: loyce.club/active/topics24h.html (updated 4 times per day).
Active topics in the past 7 days: loyce.club/active/topics7d.html (updated 2 times per day).
Most of the Top 20 are only bounty spammers posting their Twitter links.
10760  Other / Meta / Re: Is Bitcointalk.org losing user base? on: July 18, 2021, 05:02:02 PM
In the last few years, I have suggested this forum to three of my friends.
Two of them did not even manage to register to the end due to evil fee rules.
When they saw the message that because of the evil fee they had to pay some amount to be able to post on this forum they just started laughing and said there was no way they would pay any money for the right to post on some forum.
I've always felt the same way: I'm pretty sure I can consider myself a contributing user, but there's no way in hell I would have joined this forum on February 26, 2015 if I would have had to pay for it. At that point, I owned maybe a few bucks worth of Bitcoin, and I wasn't going to hand it over.
Luckily, I didn't need to pay an evil fee (and I had no idea it even existed at the time).

Considering how many spammers we have, it's obvious the captcha and evil fee doesn't stop them. Since the Merit system now makes account farming pointless, would it be worth to try running the forum without evil fees for a while?
Consider this:
Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.
Daniel91's personal experience confirms evil fees are damaging to the community, and many scammers/spammers have shown it doesn't stop them. I can't believe I'm saying this, but: can we go without evil fees for new users?

However, I believe that a large number of new members have dropped out of this forum due to the evil fee and the hostile welcome of older members.
I've seen this too, and I think I've become easier on Newbies over time. Of course there's the obvious scammers who deserve no mercy, but I try to Merit anyone who looks like a real user, and help them out whenever I can. I also try not to be trigger happy on the negative trust, and like to ask myself: "Does this makes Bitcointalk a better place?" before tagging someone. I would for instance not tag Newbies for asking for a loan: anyone who's dumb enough to trust a Newbie has only himself to thank, but more importantly the Newbie can learn how the forum works later on and still become a contributing user. A negative tag right from the start isn't encouraging them.

We are losing because this generation aren't familiar with this format the forum is using.
I like this forum format, and don't need it to become "more modern". But I also know many people easily fall for flashy looks (that's probably why every ICO scam site looks about the same). I don't like Reddit, it always makes me feel like they want to decide what I get to see. Social media in general are even worse: there's for sure an algorithm that determines what the user sees.
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