Hey everyone, I'm talking to xwebnetwork over at the forum initially set up for Netcoin. Would I be able to ask what your thoughts are on the forum design at netcoin.io/forum? We're looking at combining resources to create a more concentrated effort. There is potential to migrate the data if people feel they prefer one or the other. Please let me know what you think! Very cool design! Can it do full width? Thanks! Yes, that should be possible. I'll look into it! By the way, the point of this exercise is the evaluate whether it is worthwhile to switch to something like that given that we'll have to have a public face and all. Obviously we can expand on the format as well. Right now it seems Netcoin consists of development and community components. Both of which have announcements and discussions respectively. So it's a pretty simple way to organise all that. Why not just a mailing list? |
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Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks
Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc... Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers. Ok, let's crowdfund that  Bitcoin credit unions are already being built. Build one in every city. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1eu87f/ |
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The fact that it trades as low as it does relative to all other alt-coins that offer nothing new to the cryptosphere tells me PPC is seriously lacking advertising, marketing and appeal to new-comers. PPC is being forked by other new coins, and PPC is the first one on the scene in their genre sort of thing, if I understand what I read about PPC anyways. PPC has Sunny King who is regularly and diligently involved with PPC, which is much better than many of the other coins. PPC also has a track record, whereas the brand new coins coming out do not. Yes, I think PPC needs to mount an advertising campaign to let people know about PPC strong points, perhaps by hiring 10 people to work full time on advertising all over the net. PPC has room to improve its image? The recent drop in price of PPC at btc-e.com may only be temporary. Now might be a good time to load up on PPC, and get a quick gain as other coin investors realize that PPC is undervalued and come rushing in en masse, driving PPC to the moon. PPC is number 3. 1- Bitcoin 2- Litecoin 3- PPcoin PPC needs to actually get a web/android wallet. It also needs a tipbot. It needs a jobs site so people can get paid in PPC for working. I think PPC can make itself different from BTC if the focus is on allowing people to work for it online. The other thing is, if you're gonna use a bounty then the first thing you should focus on after marketing is infrastructure. PPC needs a job site, it needs chat/cam sites, etc. The first way would be to go to the people who are running these sites and offer them 300 PPC to integrate it into their site. Offer bounties for a PPC tipbot. 1000PPC to anyone who builds a tipbot functionality which works across the web. Focus on getting people to use it even if in trivial ways, and highligh the fact that it's cheaper than Litecoins. +cointip Luckybit 1uPPC here you go Wow I didn't even know this was possible. Did you just code that up? But yeah, the tipbots are very important because I think the best way to introduce people to a new coin is to give them some. When people have coins they'll then want to know how to spend it but the best way to learn about this kind of money is to use it. |
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So lets give people places to earn and spend PPC and you solve the problem. My suggestion is PPC should become the standard coin of pornography. People might not spend money on many things but porn is something people will always stock up on and never get enough of. Unlike the drug scene, porn is actually legal so why not set up bounties for people who start porn sites which exclusively run on PPC?
I'll set up a site, titled and devoted to Golden Showers! The best part is that people can pay with their PPcoins In actuality I agree with the detractors. Nothing is stopping someone from setting up a porn site but I don't see any reason to encourage it for the purpose of promoting Peercoin. Money isn't marketed by morals. Money is marketed by getting people to use it. I see enough sites and people using PPcoin and now I want to try it, even if the only people I see using it at first are porn stars and gambling sites. Immoral people are more attracted to PPcoin than moral people because immoral people are more attracted to cryptocurrencies generally. Conservative church going folk aren't going to be the early adopters in Bitcoin, Litecoin or PPcoin. So if it's about marketing then you gotta get whomever you can to use the coin however you can just so long as it's legal. My suggestion is make a list like Devcoin has for all sorts of sites which need to be made based not on morals but based entirely on the amount of people that kind of site can attract to PPcoin. Porn sites attract people like flies attracted to shit. |
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CIA, you heard it here first.
The CIA wouldn't care which coin won because they can just take control of Bitcoin if they wanted a coin. |
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Don't listen to them, they want free ideas and implementations. Sell your idea if you can and if it's good someone will use it.
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same as getting interest in bank, if we don't have to eat, we better leave everything in bank, but bank interest is so low that we might just want to take the saving out and flip it on some businesses, contributing to the economic growth as a whole.
I think you are talking about a fiat currency. People have to spend it to live. There are ~20 cryptocoins out there and counting. People don't have to spend PPC to live. Most of the incentive for people to have PPC is in having it sleeping in the wallet. No? Where can you spend PPC? That is the problem. Where can you earn PPC? That is the problem. So lets give people places to earn and spend PPC and you solve the problem. My suggestion is PPC should become the standard coin of pornography. People might not spend money on many things but porn is something people will always stock up on and never get enough of. Unlike the drug scene, porn is actually legal so why not set up bounties for people who start porn sites which exclusively run on PPC? PPcoin should take it's weakness and make it into it's strength. It's already perceived as the sort of porn coin so why not just take that entire market and monopolize that in the same way BTC and LTC took over the illegal drug market? If each image and each movie on the porn site costs PPcoins suddenly people will be trying to buy PPCoins and if the site offers a way for people to buy these coins direct from the site then it will work. hmm , if that would work would be positive, however I don't think a currency should be tied to one type of product/service You have to start somewhere. How did BTC and LTC start? You have to find a niche for PPC or there is no reason for people to buy it. Porn is a good niche to start with. Besides people already think of porn when they think of PPC so it markets itself. it also comes with the risk that it could drive some interested people away (those who are interested in it because of the green/low electricity cost, they like it for the "clean" image, and suddenly now it is a dirty porn coin..) That assumption is assuming they aren't the same people. You don't porn stars and porn watchers don't want cheaper electricity and clean air and water? |
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same as getting interest in bank, if we don't have to eat, we better leave everything in bank, but bank interest is so low that we might just want to take the saving out and flip it on some businesses, contributing to the economic growth as a whole.
I think you are talking about a fiat currency. People have to spend it to live. There are ~20 cryptocoins out there and counting. People don't have to spend PPC to live. Most of the incentive for people to have PPC is in having it sleeping in the wallet. No? Where can you spend PPC? That is the problem. Where can you earn PPC? That is the problem. So lets give people places to earn and spend PPC and you solve the problem. My suggestion is PPC should become the standard coin of pornography. People might not spend money on many things but porn is something people will always stock up on and never get enough of. Unlike the drug scene, porn is actually legal so why not set up bounties for people who start porn sites which exclusively run on PPC? PPcoin should take it's weakness and make it into it's strength. It's already perceived as the sort of porn coin so why not just take that entire market and monopolize that in the same way BTC and LTC took over the illegal drug market? If each image and each movie on the porn site costs PPcoins suddenly people will be trying to buy PPCoins and if the site offers a way for people to buy these coins direct from the site then it will work. hmm , if that would work would be positive, however I don't think a currency should be tied to one type of product/service You have to start somewhere. How did BTC and LTC start? You have to find a niche for PPC or there is no reason for people to buy it. Porn is a good niche to start with. Besides people already think of porn when they think of PPC so it markets itself. |
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same as getting interest in bank, if we don't have to eat, we better leave everything in bank, but bank interest is so low that we might just want to take the saving out and flip it on some businesses, contributing to the economic growth as a whole.
I think you are talking about a fiat currency. People have to spend it to live. There are ~20 cryptocoins out there and counting. People don't have to spend PPC to live. Most of the incentive for people to have PPC is in having it sleeping in the wallet. No? Where can you spend PPC? That is the problem. Where can you earn PPC? That is the problem. So lets give people places to earn and spend PPC and you solve the problem. My suggestion is PPC should become the standard coin of pornography. People might not spend money on many things but porn is something people will always stock up on and never get enough of. Unlike the drug scene, porn is actually legal so why not set up bounties for people who start porn sites which exclusively run on PPC? PPcoin should take it's weakness and make it into it's strength. It's already perceived as the sort of porn coin so why not just take that entire market and monopolize that in the same way BTC and LTC took over the illegal drug market? If each image and each movie on the porn site costs PPcoins suddenly people will be trying to buy PPCoins and if the site offers a way for people to buy these coins direct from the site then it will work. |
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The fact that it trades as low as it does relative to all other alt-coins that offer nothing new to the cryptosphere tells me PPC is seriously lacking advertising, marketing and appeal to new-comers. PPC is being forked by other new coins, and PPC is the first one on the scene in their genre sort of thing, if I understand what I read about PPC anyways. PPC has Sunny King who is regularly and diligently involved with PPC, which is much better than many of the other coins. PPC also has a track record, whereas the brand new coins coming out do not. Yes, I think PPC needs to mount an advertising campaign to let people know about PPC strong points, perhaps by hiring 10 people to work full time on advertising all over the net. PPC has room to improve its image? The recent drop in price of PPC at btc-e.com may only be temporary. Now might be a good time to load up on PPC, and get a quick gain as other coin investors realize that PPC is undervalued and come rushing in en masse, driving PPC to the moon. PPC is number 3. 1- Bitcoin 2- Litecoin 3- PPcoin PPC needs to actually get a web/android wallet. It also needs a tipbot. It needs a jobs site so people can get paid in PPC for working. I think PPC can make itself different from BTC if the focus is on allowing people to work for it online. The other thing is, if you're gonna use a bounty then the first thing you should focus on after marketing is infrastructure. PPC needs a job site, it needs chat/cam sites, etc. The first way would be to go to the people who are running these sites and offer them 300 PPC to integrate it into their site. Offer bounties for a PPC tipbot. 1000PPC to anyone who builds a tipbot functionality which works across the web. Focus on getting people to use it even if in trivial ways, and highligh the fact that it's cheaper than Litecoins. |
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Uh... I don't see the distributed marketplace. (As most here, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.)
You would still need to
1. Obtain some kind of IOU (DGC)
2. Trade it at a particular place. (OT server)
From my understanding of FellowTraveler's initial post, BM is used for matching Bids and Asks by creating an exchange protocol on top of BM that interested parties can subscribe to. The only problem is this doesn't sound very user friendly. How can it all be turned into a simple web app? |
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Possible to link to an ATM?(as well)
Excellent idea. The ease of use factor should be considered from the start. Bitmessage could even be integrated into forums like these if handled right. Maybe similar to how Bittorrent spread, we'd have to create a .exchange or something similar or a bit:// or something. |
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Just learned about Bitmessage. I suggest people go read the white paper on their wiki - short and to the point. It has the potential to upset email because of the increased privacy, built-in mailing-list functionality, and anti-spam measures (proof of work makes it hard to create lots of messages fast). This Open Transaction use case is a perfect example of the innovation possible with it.
It's not going to replace email. I've been looking at the code and it's not quite the work of art yet but it's more a hobby project. That said it fills an important niche at an important time. |
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Last night, randy-waterhouse and I were experimenting with Bitmessage. (*smooch*!!) Bitmessage is a p2p messaging (and broadcast / subscription) protocol, based on the Bitcoin protocol. It uses its own blockchain, but the chain only stores the last 2 or 3 days worth of messages. (It's assumed they were delivered within that time, where they are then safely stored on the recipient's inbox.) Combining the above Bitmessage capabilities--which we already proved out experimentally--with Open-Transactions, makes possible fully-decentralized p2p markets, as well as p2p escrow across OT federated servers, easy p2p and server-to-server wiring of funds and conversion of currencies, both within OT and also between OT and the conventional banking system. Furthermore, this is possible with little-to-no changes inside OT itself, and will not require the issuing of credit, nor will it require any pre-mined currency. How does it work? ----------------------------------------------------------- A few concepts... --- First, keep in mind the concept that Bitcoins and Colored Coins (either/both) could be issued onto an OT server, without having to trust the server itself, through the use the multi-sig "voting pools" on the blockchain itself. I've already extensively discussed this on this board, and here's an article on how it's done: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/834/309--- Second, keep in mind that using Colored Coins instead of Bitcoins is advantageous in certain circumstances, as it allows users to buy/sell those colored coins (for the purposes of transmitting other currencies) without incurring any capital gains tax liability. (I'm not a lawyer and that's not legal advice. The basic gist is, if you buy a colored coin for $100, and sell it for $100, there is obviously no gain or loss.)----------------------------------------------------------- T H E H O L Y G R A I LEnter Bitmessage! (Which solves discovery across federated OT servers.) As I said, randy-waterhouse and I already TESTED Bitmessage last night to prove experimentally that this is possible (and it worked.)----------------------------------------------------------- Using Bitmessage with OT to effect server-to-server wiring of funds: http://pastebin.com/NjQgDarx--- The wiring protocol is all about Alice trying to discover Bob so she can move her money from one server to another (and Bob trying to discover Alice so he can make a profit by moving money from one server to another.)----------------------------------------------------------- Using Bitmessage with OT to effect escrow-based conversion of currencies across OT federated servers: http://pastebin.com/S1W5guAQ--- The currency conversion protocol is about Alice and Bob being able to choose a server they can agree to meet on so they can trade one currency for another inside OT. (For cases where they aren't already trading on the same OT server.)----------------------------------------------------------- Using Bitmessage with OT and SEPA so that Alice can p2p send any currency which Bob receives as Euros in his Euro account: http://pastebin.com/SsLrxVP6--- The SEPA transfer protocol is about Alice being able to send Silver Grams, which Bob receives as Euros in his Euro bank account. It's also about Jorg earning a profit in silver grams, by sending a SEPA transfer to Bob on Alice's behalf.----------------------------------------------------------- We already knew that OT offered quite a few benefits to Bitcoin: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/2710/309But now, combined with Bitmessage, Open-Transactions becomes a juggernaut!The above protocols can be implemented inside OT wallet GUIs, such that they are automated and transparent to users.May a million currencies bloom! I've been watching Open Transactions for the last 3-4 years and I knew there would come a time when it would be used for something. This seems a very effective method of creating a distributed exchange and I approve of it as I see how it could work in theory and in practice. All it would need is to be built so that we could go to a website or series of websites which host the back end. Users probably don't need to know the innerworkings and most users are used to interfacing with the web like with Localbitcoins, MtGox or whatever. Right now Bitmessage is a stand alone python app but it wouldn't take too much effort to turn it into a web app and to turn OT into a sort of back engine and once that happens then it's something which could work. A Chrome and Firefox extension could work too. |
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I'm hoping to do something very similar to this. I can't do it alone though so if you know a few exceptional programmers, let me know!
If you have Bitcoins why not set up some bounties? |
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Couldnt you just timestamp the folding result using bitcoin and that would prove you cured cancer with your node ??
This should be implemented and merged into Bitcoin. Mining Bitcoins should make miners money while curing diseases and solving real problems. Why not? |
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Too early for all that. What you propose makes sense, but you are simply ahead of your time. People need to grow into the concepts involved and as of now your ideas aren't yet ripe.
It's too early to make sense? I don't understand. You seem to not understand enough of both Bitcoin technology itself and the social framework which shapes it. (i) you've made a mention of "altcoin"s without mentioning "alt-Bitcoin"s. Bitcoin as a mathematical system creates a class of isomorphic cryptocurrencies. There is between 2 160 and 2 256 (the exact number is immaterial, it is a large number comparable to the number of atoms in the whole planet) of them, each of those systems self-limited to 21*10 6 units. I know what Bitcoin is. I've known about cryptocurrencies theoretically since before there was a Bitcoin. I did not get interested in "Bitcoin" but in cryptocurrencies in general. I don't believe Bitcoin is the end but it's just the beginning. So no I don't want Bitcoin to be like HTTP/TCPIP because if you know enough about HTTP or TCPIP then you know neither of those implementations were perfected and as a result now we have many extensions and new protocols. My opinion is the standard protocol itself should not be based around a single product but should be designed so that whatever the next big thing is can easily be implemented. It should not be hard to switch away from Bitcoin when the time comes where we may have to do that and according to my understanding of this technology that time is going to come a lot sooner than people here seem to think. I don't buy that my ideas are before it's time or not ripe. I would have said the same thing before there was a Bitcoin. The Bitcoin protocol itself is fairly new but the idea of cryptocurrencies is not new, especially among the cypherpunk crowd. Although all those iso-Bitcoin cryptocurrencies are mathematically equivalent, the regular Bitcoin supporters will claim that only the coin anchored at 000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f is a true-Bitcoin, all others being false-Bitcoins.
What I'm saying is that Bitcoin should have competition in a free market. I like Bitcoin, it's a well designed protocol, but it's not perfection. It also does not fit into every possible niche market and also it's once again the problem of centralization. When Bitcoin is the center of the cryptocurrency galaxy then any bad press toward Bitcoin affects all altcoins. When Bitcoin has competition then bad press for Bitcoin will not completely destroy all cryptocurrency. We used to just have Napster at one point in time, remember that? This is mathematically false, but socially true. The prime socially-differentiating factor is that the ...8ce26f iso-Bitcoin makes different people rich than all other iso-Bitcoins that can be started in the future with a different anchor and different people getting rich while mining them. This has nothing to do with the "altcoin"s that are not isomorphic to the Bitcoin system and discussed on the "alternate currency" subforum.
I'm not sure what you're talking about "Bitcoin makes different people rich" because no it doesn't actually. People right now are mining altcoins to trade for Bitcoins and a lot of people who have a lot of Bitcoins are also mining altcoins. I do see your point that altcoins can make more people rich or late adopters rich but I don't see what is wrong people getting rich just so long as the technology is advanced in the process. Please elaborate more on this argument because it's not making much sense as to why you think it's bad and I'm not sure if you're talking about the unique network effect of Bitcoin making people rich or something else. (ii) you seem to belong in the minority that takes the Bitcoin ideals on the face value, whereas the majority of Bitcoin supporters are there in hope of increasing their wealth in the legacy currencies or just for the opportunity to kill some bankers. To make a simple analogy with the historical events: you are one of the rare persons who took "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" at the face value, whereas bulk of the French Revolutionaries was there because it gave them opportunity to kill priests and expropriate anyone they didn't liked.
I've been studying cryptocurrencies, cryptography, and the ideas around Bitcoin since before there was a Bitcoin. So I came into it from the position of someone who originally saw it as an interesting technological development so I kept my eye on it. Then when I saw it reach $30 back in 2011 and crash down to less than $2 I saw it as a business opportunity because I knew at that moment it would never be $2 a Bitcoin again because I understood how valuable it was. So then I got attracted to it as an investment opportunity, and then finally I see it has political dimensions to free us from the bank but I always understood that and thought that it wouldn't work. I still don't see it taking down the federal reserve or the banks, but I do see it offering people a different choice and I think that choice is extremely valuable. For the same reason we need altcoins to offer even more choices provided that the technology behind cryptocurrencies are advanced. If I understand your argument then you and others are concerned that an over abundance of altcoins can create hyperinflation of cryptocurrencies. I've actually addressed that in other postings on the forum and I see that too as a problem and I'm not saying to take the worst pump and dump coins and adopt them but there are some technologies that do things Bitcoins simply cannot do. PPcoin if it works will be able to do some things Bitcoins can't do, Namecoins can do things Bitcoins can't do, and there will be other coins which come along which have technological advantages over Bitcoin and it makes no sense to have to design the infrastructure for Bitcoin right now and then have to redesign everything all over again for whatever ultimately comes after Bitcoin. I don't think Litecoin is all that innovative but it's gaining support regardless, and I think PPcoin is more innovative but isn't gaining much support. All I'm saying is the users and merchants should ultimately decide which coin is most useful to them and the infrastructure has to allow for them to make that choice otherwise how it is much different from the centralized banking not letting people have choices? In summary I think you seem to consider Bitcoin like any other technical invention that needs to be optimized and popularized. It is mostly true, but far from being true in the deeper details and in the social context. While I admire your proposal I'm going to put it next to the books about the adventures of Pollyanna.
You're not giving any detailed reason why Bitcoin isn't a technical invention that needs to be optimized and popularized. I do understand the social context, but you haven't made a good enough case against technological innovation. How do you know it wouldn't be hyper inflation? If the BTC community promotes an infinite number of blockchains, then why wouldn't the market become increasingly fragmented? Just as you're free to promote your BTC-alt protocols and create software for them, others are free to ignore them and not expend the extra resources in order to make software compatible for them.
I don't view it like that. I am not assuming every new protocol will be based on Bitcoin. I'm not assuming every single Bitcoin clone will be embraced. But we do need to continuously try to make a new thing because from a cultural point of view it's good for a community to have. I also don't think Bitcoin is anywhere near as good as it could be, just as I don't think cryptocurrencies aren't as mature as they could be. Basically I see Bitcoin as having a shelf life, maybe 15-20 years before it's obsolete by technology standards and I think it's critically important to have a culture of innovation and always push the new technology. I do agree with you that hyperinflation may be an issue if too many cryptocurrencies are released too fast but I don't believe that each cryptocurrency will appeal to the same demographics. I don't believe the market is so small that only Bitcoin can succeed. I think Bitcoin is in a huge ocean where it's never going to be able to fill the demands of billions of people. There has to be many different altcoins each with different technologies to meet the demands of billions of people to bring acceptance to cryptocurrency as a technology. Curecoin for example is an altcoin which could greatly benefit all cryptocurrencies. We need more coins like that to combat the negative media attention caused by Bitcoin. When people say it's a good thing that Bitcoin is popular among libertarians I would say if the only place people hear about cryptocurrencies is from libertarians, or on Alex Jones, and if it's never discussed on Oprah or on more mainstream channels then it's never going to get to be as big as it could be. These altcoins will make the overall market cap for cryptocurrencies bigger than if it were just Bitcoin alone. That is my argument, and the only reason inflation could be a problem is because in the last month we've had hundreds of clones come out which aren't actively developed and which are just based on marketing. Litecoin was just based on marketing but at least it is actively maintained. Curecoin or coins which can do protein folding as Proof of Work are technologically superior to Bitcoin in a way. I should have the choice to mine Curecoins and to use those coins to shop with at any merchant that accepts Bitcoin. Tell me why I shouldn't be able to? Yes I do think there should be a quality standard, but it should be easy for a merchant to accept any coin. |
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The standard we should be promoting is the BTC protocol. We don't need multiple BTC-based protocols. The argument for multiple BTC-based blockchains/networks rests on the premise that more coins is not harmful to cryptocurrency adoption, but more coins means each coin has less value, so adoption of an unlimited number of BTC-based blockchains would mean hyperinflation.
We might as well get rid of the 2.1 quadrillion Satoshi limit and abandon the idea that scarcity makes an asset effective at storing value if we're going to promote the adoption of an ever increasing number of blockchains, all providing the same currency function.
So what you're saying is that Apple should have been the only operating system and PC available because it was first and having an open PC based system can confuse users? I disagree. I want open standards for all cryptocurrencies. It's bigger than BTC now. My wallet should work with any cryptocurrency I choose to use in it. My software should accept any altcoin. Why shouldn't we segment the market just to give Bitcoin an unfair advantage? By the way it wouldn't be hyper inflation. Just because my wallet accepts any cryptocurrency it doesn't mean every merchant will or ever person will. You'd always be free to say you only accept Bitcoins but the wallet technology itself shouldn't be free to decide for us. |
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i wonder with all these alt coin releases  what if again i say what if they offer you coin x ..and steal your wallet.dat especially the way that they mine new coins convert to ltc or btc.. again i say what if lol Encrypt your wallet and use Yubikey. |
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Much as I dislike lobbying and indeed am starting to think it should be prohibited I wanted to open a discussion on the pros and cons of having a bitcoin lobbyist group. A group, funded by bitcoin users that could advise to various bodies, NGOs and government about bitcoin.
Just to be clear I am not advocating this: I want to consider the implications of what would happen if this where to take place as often organisations such as this start to look after their own self interests.
Conversely what would be the pros and cons of a purely decentralised approach to informing NGO and government policy?
Both. The Internet is both centralized and decentralized. Bitcoin will have to be both centralized and decentralized, but where you can be decentralized and secure you should. |
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