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1241  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How does wallet.dat work? on: February 06, 2013, 04:51:04 PM
Typos typos typos.  Your right Danny.  I learned that even compressed keys have are more than 256 bits.  It is the x value plus a flag which allows the client to identify it as such (and know if it is positive or negative y value).  I intended to leave compressed public keys out of the discussion so I should have wrote 512 bit (corrected).

The protocol itself isn't aware of compressed keys and to make it aware would require a hard fork.  All that potential bandwidth and storage savings wasted.  Even if a compressed key is used in the client it is converted to a full key when creating a transaction on the network.

No it isn't.  We pass the pubkey as a binary blob to openssl, and openssl will validate the signature using either form.  The same private key can actually correspond to two different addresses, because the hash of the compressed pubkey is different from the hash of the uncompressed pubkey.
1242  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Avalon chip on: February 05, 2013, 05:31:41 PM
I agree as well, I have been doing some calculations on difficulty and I have a calendar with estimates to see if it is staying on the curve I believe we are heading on.   The next month will be crucial to give us the pace for the next 6 months.  

The shape of the curve depends on how aggressive both companies can be in moving units.  For Avalon how quickly will all batch 2 customers get their units, will there be a delay on batch3, etc.  For BFL can they get out the door in Feb and once they do how many units per week can they sustain in production.  The end state is much higher difficulty it really just depends on how steep the curve is.  

Precisely. The way I've been looking at it, the absolutely minimum for first gen will probably be around 250-300TH/s (tripling BFL's preorder count, adding Avalon's batch #1 and #2, and tossing in ASICMiner as well). It'll only go up from there once people see working devices, as well as Gen 2 speculation.

My old estimate was based on dollars per hash/second.  ASICs provide roughly 25-35 times the hashrate per dollar cost, ignoring operational costs.  Thus, my short-medium term projection was about 75 million difficulty.  As the fixed costs of ASIC production dwindle and devices start being sold closer to their marginal costs, I expect another doubling, to around 150 million difficulty. *

My current thinking is that those two moves will appear as a single steady rise, rather than two discrete actions.  I would expect we'll be near 75 million by July, and 150 million by October, roughly a 50% increase every month, starting more or less now.

After that, I think a 10% monthly growth rate is fairly reasonable.  The network will be big enough that each new batch coming online will be a smaller fraction of the whole, but the units will also be cheaper.  10% seems like a reasonable balance point.  In my projections, I use an abrupt transition, but I expect a rounder corner in reality.

I'm hoping that my estimates are very aggressive.  If I'm underestimating the difficulty in any given period by very much at all, then the second or third Avalon batch, and other units with similar costs and delivery timelines (which might possibly include BFL) will be at best slightly profitable over the first year.  The biggest winners could very easily be those that got in on the very first batches, and those than come in much later, when the per-unit costs are dominant. **

* Note that I use difficulty in my work, not hash rate.  The exchange rate is roughly 1 Mdiff=7Thash/sec.  My 75 Mdiff short-medium target is roughly double Korbman's minimum 1st gen estimate, or about 525 Thash/sec.  My medium-long target of 150 is roughly 1 Petahash/sec.

** I place an upper bound of $200 on the part cost per module in Avalon, not counting the fixed costs.  This is using very rough estimates for a bunch of things.  Napkin quality work, at best.  I could refine it a bit if I had the board specs (dimensions and layer count) along with the part numbers of the non-ASIC components on the boards, but I probably won't bother.
1243  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Avalon ASIC Batch #2 Sales Update (Last Updated 2013-02-04 00:28 EST) on: February 05, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
I would sell-off your GPUs.  They will be crushed soon.

I'm keeping mine for vanity address mining.  They've already paid for themselves, and I have good electrical rates.  I don't see much point selling them into the glut that will be coming to ebay soon.
1244  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why is it hard to track backwards from public address to private key? on: February 05, 2013, 04:21:56 PM
The key distinction between high-school math and the math used in cryptography is that cryptography is discrete. That is, in high school math your answer could be 8.56, 8.57, 8.565, 8.564, etc, with infinite granularity between any two values. You also have continuity, which means that you can find always find some distance such that within that distance for the inputs the outputs are always within a certain (arbitrarily small range). Thus, even if you algebraic efforts fail, you can always apply methods like Newtonian approximation and get an answer in the end.

Great post, you really get right to the heart of it.

In real numbers, you can feed an error term back into the algorithm to improve a guess.  In discrete math, and even worse, modular discrete math, you don't get any error term, so you can't get any feedback.  Well, you can get a little, here and there.  Better algorithms attempt to extract the tiny bits of feedback, which in some cases makes them much better than simple brute force, but that is just a reduction in badness, it doesn't get you down into polynomial territory.

The catch is that we really don't know why we can't get feedback. *  And we can't prove that feedback is impossible either.  For all we know, there is some trick just waiting to be discovered that will reduce a big lump of currently impossible problems to triviality.

* The Wikipedia example is (3^k)%17=13.  If you try solving it, you can see that classical techniques for using the error term to improve successive guesses don't help you much, but why we haven't been able to find any techniques that do work is, again, one of the biggest open questions in mathematics today.
1245  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The MAX_BLOCK_SIZE fork on: February 04, 2013, 07:30:44 AM
I know the 1MB is a hard limit which affects both miners and clients. I'm assuming a world without MAX_BLOCK_SIZE at all, both miners and clients.

Miners can ALWAYS drop a valid block if they don't like it, just like ignoring any valid transaction. Currently, miners taking non-standard transaction has higher risks of orphaned block because other miners may not like these block.

If a miner (Bob) sees a new valid block with height N but doesn't like it for whatever reason, he will simply keep mining on top of block N-1. When Bob finds another valid block (N2), he will broadcast to the network and other miners will choose one between N and N2. Here Bob takes a risk of being orphaned because other miners may build on block N. If block N+1 is built on N, Bob has to reconsider the risk and he may decide to keep mining on N+1, instead of N-1 or his N2. However, if Bob (or his team) owns 51% of the network, he will always win and block N must be eventually orphaned. (You may call it a 51% attack but this is exactly how the system works)

Therefore, if the majority of miners do not like 1GB block, building 1GB block will become very risky and no one will do so.

What you are describing is much worse than a mere fork, the only word I can think of for it is a shatter.
1246  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The MAX_BLOCK_SIZE fork on: February 04, 2013, 04:44:59 AM
If space in a block is not a limited resource then miners won't be able to charge for it, mining revenue will drop as the subsidy drops and attacks will become more profitable relative to honest mining.
How many business can you name that maximize their profitability by restricting the number of customers they serve?

If it really worked like that, then why stop at 1 MB? Limit block sizes to a single transaction and all the miners would be rich beyond measure! That would certainly make things more decentralized because miners all over the world would invest in hardware to collect the massive fee that one lucky person per block will be willing to pay.

Why stop there? I'm going to start a car dealership and decide to only sell 10 cars per year. Because I've made the number of cars I sell a limited resource I'll be able to charge more for them, right?

Then I'll open a restaurant called "House of String-Pushing" that only serves regular food but only lets in 3 customers at a time.

If car dealerships sold cars for however much you were willing to pay, down to and including free, you can bet they'd limit the number of cars they "sold".  And I doubt you'd even get 10 out of them.

The problem is that we really don't know yet how to operate with the system we have, much less a different one.  In a decade or two, when the subsidy is no longer the dominant part of the block reward, maybe then we'll have some idea how to price transactions, and we will be able to think clearly about mechanisms to adjust the block size.
1247  Economy / Speculation / Re: Review of S.DICE on: February 04, 2013, 04:21:06 AM
S. Dice is grossly over-valued.  The cost of creating a competitor is very low.  They don't offer anything special that another competitor cannot easily replicate.    Someone could return 99.5% of bets and still make a killing.

I'd value the company at 1x-2x annual earnings and label it as very high risk.

You know, probably a hundred different people have all said this on the forums since S.Dice opened.  Surely if one of you were right, this thread would have gone dormant long ago, crushed by the flood of S.Dice users rushing to the better site.  And yet, here we are, still talking about them, still no real competition in view.  Perhaps you are missing something in your analysis.  Or maybe a couple million dollars a year isn't enough motivation to replicate their simple site.
1248  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Avalon Asic] Batch #2 trade-in Thread on: February 03, 2013, 08:59:46 PM
I hope you will allow full price orders to convert.  When they came back into stock today, I didn't want to miss my chance, so I placed my order.
1249  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Bitcoin-Qt, the future Bitcoin client GUI [user input needed] on: February 03, 2013, 06:24:20 AM
The new release looks much better but I still can't find out how much the total fees are to send coins.
My wallet has 0.52390169 BTC and I tried to spend it and got the message "Total exceeds your balance when the .01  BTC tranasaction fee is included" Fair enough so I reduced the spend to 0.51390169 and the get the message "Total exceeds your balance when the .23 BTC tranasaction fee is included"
This doesn't seem right or fair.
How do I calculate what the TOTAL fees are going to be?

There really isn't any way to tell.  The system doesn't know what fees will be needed until it makes an attempt at the knapsack problem of selecting the transactions to redeem.

And yeah, there should maybe be a special case for emptying a wallet, but there isn't.

I can't believe this isn't mentioned more frequently on here. I'm trying to empty my wallet, and when I adjust the amount to account for the stated transaction fee, the transaction fee just keeps going up. I even tried upping the fee in the options but it still just kept getting larger to where it wasn't worth doing the transaction. This is obviously a bug in the design, and the "knapsack problem" is not an excuse (no offense to kjj). The idea that people can have bitcoins in their wallet but can't spend them is just ludicrous.

Sigh.  Please google before you necro next time.
1250  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Someone just ordered 8 BFL FPGA singles under my name... on: February 03, 2013, 05:08:37 AM
You use the same password on both sites?
1251  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Avalon ASIC Batch #2 Sales Update on: February 02, 2013, 05:26:41 PM
There is no FROM address in bitcoin.

Are you also planning to reimburse people when you send their payments into the void?

You are mistaken.  There is a FROM address in bitcoin [inputs into the transaction].  There might be multiple FROM addresses, but they are there.

You run a pool that has not just one, but two different ways to generate payments that can't be returned in the way they are planning to do.
1252  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Avalon ASIC Batch #2 Sales Update on: February 02, 2013, 05:21:47 PM
There is no FROM address in bitcoin.

Are you also planning to reimburse people when you send their payments into the void?
1253  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Avalon ASIC] Batch #2 pre-Sale Thread on: February 02, 2013, 02:55:51 PM
Each click on the site led to a random shopping cart.  Eventually, I had the 2 units that I wanted and was able to check out.  Of course, when I got to the payment page after entering my info, it wanted by to send 0.0 BTC to the address.  Then it thanked me for my payment once it realized that the amount pending was zero.

I sent 0.01 just as a placeholder.
1254  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain rollback limit? on: February 02, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
Checkpoints are in checkpoints.cpp.  As of 0.7.1, the latest was 193,000.  I'm not sure if 0.7.2 moved it up.

There are problems with limiting rollback.  I've proposed a scheme where reorgs become exponentially more costly, but it still has the problem that it adds new state to the system and messes with automatic convergence.
1255  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Avalon ASIC users thread on: February 02, 2013, 12:12:01 PM
DC Power supplies are marked by the DC wattage provided, not by the AC wattage consumed.  There is nothing at all strange about a device marked "450W" pulling 600+ watts from the wall. 
1256  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: ssl help! on: January 31, 2013, 06:14:53 PM
Yes, make sure that you set the client up to validate the certificate.  If you skip this step, you might as well not be using SSL at all.
1257  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: error message: "Unknown transaction type found" on: January 31, 2013, 05:57:21 PM
I assume you are mining in a pool that directly shares the outputs of the coinbase transaction with the miners?

It looks that those txid are for coinbase transactions (which have no previous unspent transaction for the input):

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3186812/18a25ea05fc65beeb4d70da83bded52a0e616f15ee1cf85f9b924c84b98cd0bf
http://blockchain.info/tx-index/2677722/1970274786f4040e41ff46282f13c0bd47a38300c07ffb7bde59fc8dd95bcb4a

I'm not mining at all.  I did CPU mine at P2Pool for a couple of weeks when I first found out about it, so that could be it.

Basically, when listtransactions runs, it looks at every output of every transaction that you are involved in, even the outputs that are not yours.  This causes these messages to show up in your logs, because p2pool uses a bogus txout for internal pool tracking.

See here and here.
1258  Economy / Auctions / Re: BMF / CPA / NYAN LIQUIDATION AUCTION on: January 30, 2013, 06:30:00 PM
ASICMINER 10 shares @ 0.44 BTC each
1259  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why is it hard to track backwards from public address to private key? on: January 29, 2013, 08:58:08 PM
Please explain what you mean by 1-dimensional in this context especially when you go on to say "the set of points  (x, y)  in the plane", here the word plane implying two dimensions.  

I am guessing that 1-dimensional refers to the line-like nature of the curve, much like your position on a winding street can be described as a distance from an origin (a single value), even though your latitude and longitude are two-dimensional.
In that case we are starting to alter the way the terms are typically used in mathematics.  A line is one dimensional, but the only curve that is one dimensional is the curve that happens to also be a line.  Most curves (those that are actually curvy and not straight) exist in two dimensions.

No, sorry, your math is outdated (by like a century, or at the very least 45 years if you start counting from 1967).

The crisis in Mathematics that resulted from Peano's non-differentiable monster curves was successfully resolved.  We even have the word fractal now specifically to describe curves where the Hausdorff Dimension is not equal to the topological or Euclidean dimension.
1260  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can we use Bitcoin client to on: January 28, 2013, 09:45:21 PM
I guess if about 20 people all said "I have something that needs a provable trust-free timestamp right now, and it would be worth 5 cents to me if you would finish your service so I can use it tomorrow" to me, I'd get mine ready for public consumption and announce it here.

I'd just point them to http://www.timemarker.org/


Heh.  My point was more about the missing dollar.

But that service looks like a mess.  To verify a timestamp, I get to download every single message that was ever signed by it to check the chain?  Ugh, no thanks, I've already done that once.  At least with bitcoin I already have the software, plus I know that the whole world has a financial incentive to make sure all blocks are correct too.
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