It is looking bad, but this has altered the risk reward ratio.. More risk and a much higher reward. I've bought some more as I love a gamble.. The whole premise of this from the beginning was a 1 in 10 shot of it happening. Now they have chips, but they are fucked or the pcb is fucked. Either way I don't believe it is vapourware or a scam. Ill be a bag holder if it is a scam, but that's why I've invested what I can afford to lose. I won't be bankrupt, I will be pissed off that I made a bad call. If people are investing more than they can afford to lose then they are the fools
Read the past 5 pages to aknowledge this is guaranteed a known scam, you are not gambling you are throwing your money down the bin.but hey maybe you hit my sell orders There hasn't been a single scrap of evidence showing that Labcoin is "guaranteed a known scam". |
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Those who concluded this is a complete scam please explain how this scam works? Who not just go with $700k and run away, actually they could get double of that value then. Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%? I cannot understand the logic.
To me this is just a poorly managed project. The whole team was heavily based on Howard Wang, who got an offer from US university and left just before they got chips. Howard is not just the key developer but also the access to university facility. Their replacement has did a very poor job and always gave a over optimistic estimation. Now they gave up and have decided to outsourced all the assembly and deploying.
Read back a few pages. 1) The CEO claims no relation to Labcoin. 2) The chat log showing delaria recruiting an inventor (agath) and admitting to being Alissa Tatti (obvious relation to CEO that claims no involvement). 3) The connection between Alissa Tatti and a known bitcoin scammer 4) Labcoin account denying the involvement of the above people and claiming Alissa Tatti left the company shortly after recruiting people. 5) theSeven stating that he has had continued contact with Alissa (I believe he stated she was the primary contact but I'd have to go find that). It is my opinion that Swede and theSeven are unwitting accomplices in this scam. They were hired and believed this project was legit. Sam has a lot of explaining to do if he is to convince me this isn't a scam. Tomorrow should be interesting. I've read a few pages back and can't find any of this info. I can however find info which is similar to this which shows that you are twisting things to make them look worse for Labcoin. For example, you say "1) The CEO claims no relation to Labcoin." The reality is that the iTec Pro Ltd CEO has no direct involvement in the Labcoin project and no working knowledge of it. Do you honestly find it unusual that a CEO doesn't know the ins-and-outs of one of their companies projects? The same is true with the rest of your points. You are simply spinning the situations to make Labcoin look as bad as possible. Also, burnside never said that 1 million shares have been sold, so all the idiots who keep making that claim are simply full of shit. |
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I dont miss that at all. My point is that Labcoin is violating US law even if its not a scam. And yes, that applies to pretty much every security on BTCT, Bitfunder and other exchanges that are readily available in the US and accept US investors' funds. As for Active miner, the shares issued are for the Belize company, not the US based sales company, but indeed that doesnt make it any more legal.
You are clearly missing the point. In the US, it's illegal to sell alcohol to people under 21. In most countries, the legal age is 18. If an 18 year old American went on holiday to the UK and bought a pint at a pub, the pub hasn't done anything illegal despite a violation of US law occurring because it's in the UK and abiding by UK law. If anyone could be said to have committed a crime, it would be the 18 year old American. US laws are irrelevant outside the US. The laws that are relevant are those of the country you are in. |
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And here comes the sell off...
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[22:45] <StalkBot> Estimated hashrate between the last 4 deposits [3031.31 GH/sec] [22:45] <StalkBot> Mining 0.41451209 over 1 hour, 1 second at 148819200 difficulty [22:45] <StalkBot> Team 'labcoin' not in the top 25 at BTCGuild page -> http://tinyurl.com/k7357rjThoughts? Maybe it could be any of of the miners in the User Ranking? They are still getting .05 every hour which is half of their 800gh/sec everything else is noise until they start getting those numbers every hour. BTC/day can be calculated in the following manner: BTC/day = 86,400 * 25 * MHR / (D * 2^32) where MHR is the miner's hash rate and D is the difficulty. Labcoin have got 5.20656058 BTC over about 3 1/3 days since the dividend, giving around 1.57774563 BTC/day. This gives a hash rate of about: BTC = 86400 * 25 * MHR / (D * 2^32) D * 2^32 * BTC / (86400 * 25) = MHR 148819200 * 2^32 * 1.57774563 / (86400 * 25) = 467 Gh/s |
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They've stated that they plan on bringing 500 Th/s online by the end of the year. That is a valid possibility. If they did and they controlled 5% of the network, then the network hash rate would be 10 Ph/s. I think it's more likely that Labcoin will have 500 Th/s online than the network will be at 10 Ph/s by the end of the year. If the network was at 5 Ph/s then LC would need 250 Th/s. If they get their problems sorted and hit their targets they'll have around 200 Th/s in November.
They'd still need to keep up with that, though. Right now they can't even keep their rank on btcguild. I'm simply pointing out that these are Labcoin's stated targets and that these targets are certainly possible. Whether they'll hit them or not is not yet a knowable fact, therefore it's an opinion people should form for themselves. That is the risk, which is just as much a factor in LC's share price as are its current dividends. You can't determine the share price from just the dividends like vela is saying. |
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Anyway what's happening with the payments drying up
Drying up? Can you elaborate? At least every hour the payment is sent to their wallet.. That link shows the last payment was almost 4 hours ago. |
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Your own calculations show that @1% of the network, Labcoin is worth .002 per share @ 50% APR.
What calculations would they be? But, as you can see, the market does not value securities like that. They can only be valued based on what they are actually achieving, and in the case of Labcoin, they are underachieving and over promising. AM is the exact opposite.
It clearly does, otherwise you wouldn't be claiming they're overpriced and the shares would be selling for what you claim they're worth. What about before they started hashing? Were shares worth 0? no, not a chance. They will be lucky to reach 1% by the end of the year. They have failed to meet any of their hashing goals, so I don't know why anyone would assume that they would meet a lofty goal like 5% of the network within a few months.
If they reach 1% by the beginning of Nov, they MIGHT be able to achieve 3% by the end of the year, but that's a big MIGHT.
They've stated that they plan on bringing 500 Th/s online by the end of the year. That is a valid possibility. If they did and they controlled 5% of the network, then the network hash rate would be 10 Ph/s. I think it's more likely that Labcoin will have 500 Th/s online than the network will be at 10 Ph/s by the end of the year. If the network was at 5 Ph/s then LC would need 250 Th/s. If they get their problems sorted and hit their targets they'll have around 200 Th/s in November. That's their plan and it certainly a possibility, to claim otherwise is just silly. Sure there are risks, that's why the price is not more than 0.06 BTC/share already. |
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Where is the maths to support your statement?
Once you show us this maths of yours, you can also use it to show us how much AM is worth based on its dividends.
where have you been? I posted that shit several pages ago. But here it goes again, just for you: Dividend Per share: 0.00000146 BTC 26 of those a year: ~.0000365 @ 50% APR (very generous), that's a share value of .000073 at double those earnings - .000146/share, triple - .000219/share So, as you can see, even if we give them a lot of room and triple their current revenue, they are still worth an order of magnitude less than anyone around here is claiming. Do you think a security that has less than .06% of the network should be valued more? Even if they get that 20 TH/s up in the next 10 days (highly unlikely), they'll be worth ~.002 per share BY YOUR OWN CALCULATIONS (1% of network = .002/share) AM's last div was 0.00967485, so .5 per year. @ 30% APR, that's ~1.68 per share, (which was their price before the BTCT fiasco yesterday). AM has followed the 30% APR relationship for a while, now. But when they were new, those APR were 70+%. I think a security that currently has 0.06% of the network and plans on greatly increasing their network share to around 5% by the end of the year has a lot of potential. People recognise and value that potential. With AM at 1.68 BTC/share, if LC was equally as profitable, it would be worth 0.0672 BTC per share. 400,000 AM shares 10,000,000 LC shares 10,000,000 / 400,000 = 25 AM share price = 1.68 BTC/share LC share price = 1.68 / 25 = 0.0672 BTC/share AM had around 5%-6% of the network at the time according to asicminercharts.com. So if LC controlled 5% of the network would you agree that it would be worth around 0.06 BTC/share? Would you agree that LC has the potential to control 5% of the network by the end of the year? |
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There is no doubt that Labcoin is undervalued right now if they continue to increase their hashrate and pay dividends.
what? based on that dividend, their shares are worth .000076 btc. Based on what maths? Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt, double their hash rate and give them 2 full weeks of hashing, they are worth no more than .00015 per share.
How can you say they are undervalued? Where is the math to support your statement?
When they have 1% of the market (not a chance before late October), then they MIGHT be worth .002/share.
Where is the maths to support your statement? Once you show us this maths of yours, you can also use it to show us how much AM is worth based on its dividends. |
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if you follow remainder of that tx, final resting place is 1J3bLZrFdWwVE6kG9cojT5189N6Er2xHrm, this is only originate address to send funds to address posted publicly today 19z5qVRTbMKkBwecQM3FFTeqQbPfkUwQsY , from which funds from signed labcoin address were posted to Can you create a complete visual representation of your theories?   GIFSoup |
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UPDATE:
I just woke up to the information that BTCT.CO is "winding down" (Shutting down, I haven't even had time to read the full release or catch up on the information thread).
Burnside has previously informed the team (at listing) that complete ownership registry is kept up-to-date (as per previous discussions reg. direct shares), and while this obviously is something no one was expecting I expect all shares to be accounted for.
As to alternate listing, direct share conversion and other alternatives for share holders i currently have not had time to consider this yet but of course we will start working ASAP on a solution.
I think most of us would like to see you guys move to bitfunder. That has my vote. Mine too. |
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Can anyone tell me what's on that page as I can't view it? I need an LTC-GLOBAL account but registration is currently disabled. It's a public portfolio for user "BTCTRADINGPT". The page shows that it owns 130 shares of LTC-GLOBAL and has a 0 LTC balance. 130 LTC-GLOBAL shares can back up to 1300 BTC-TRADING-PT shares due to the 1:10 ratio between the original and the passthrough. And there are exactly 1300 PT-shares outstanding, so all PT-shares are backed properly by shares of the original security. It would be nice if this link contained more than the current and previous months data. |
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The more I think about it, the more that warning is a drastic overreaction to a minor issue.
The whole thing has been handled very poorly by Burnside. I've lost some faith in the exchange because of this whole incident. Making up rules as you go along is not the way to earn my trust.
You only say that because it effects your share price. Labcoin has been acting shady as hell. I say that as a shareholder being unbiased...this warning will make Labcoin re-think pulling the same crap in the future, and know there are consequences. I agree. LC have reacted terribly in the way they've handled the situation with the chips and communication in general. I've been looking into other assets in case I decide to sell out. That'll depend on how the hash rate changes over the next week or two. I'll leave a small amount amount to trade with though. |
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Does anyone know how much has been kept back from dividends so far to pay for the next gen chips?
not sure, but some estimates last week were around 10K btc If we assume that dividends would be 0.02 BTC without anything being kept back, then subtract the actual dividends paid, we can get an estimate for the amount held back for each week. The total for the past 5 dividends being 0.03806709 BTC per share. If we assume that 50% of the dividends were held back, the total is 0.06193291. If we go with the earlier figure, then 0.03806709 BTC/share * 400,000 shares = 15,226.836 BTC. Depending on the price the bitcoins were exchanged for, we get the following values for USD: 100 USD/BTC = 1,522,683.60 USD 110 USD/BTC = 1,674,951.96 USD 120 USD/BTC = 1,827,220.32 USD 130 USD/BTC = 1,979,488.68 USD 140 USD/BTC = 2,131,757.04 USD If we assume only half of that has been held back, that's still 750,000 USD. Does anyone know how much needs to be raised for the 2nd gen chips? |
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Does anyone know how much has been kept back from dividends so far to pay for the next gen chips?
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The whole thing is poorly written, but at least it includes a link to the ranking page so people can see for themselves.
Lets just hope they don't fall off the top 25 teams. That would be face-palmingly unfortunate. |
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Can anyone tell me what's on that page as I can't view it? I need an LTC-GLOBAL account but registration is currently disabled. |
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I'm looking at investing in this asset and have noticed that the share price has basically halved in the past 2 weeks. Is there a logical reason for this decrease, such as a contractual change/operational change, etc?
I can't see any notices about anything changing, but I did come across a comment about divs not being paid last month and the funds being used to hire legal advice. Was that just a one time thing? Will divs be getting paid again as usual this month?
Any other info that I should know about to help make my decision?
The stock is overpriced. Even with regular dividends, the expected APR is considerably lower than pretty much every bond/loan that is on offer on the exchange. I'm not sure why it has held up its price for so long. I guess that a fair number of shares isn't moving since people hold these (on LTC-Global) to have a moderator-vote on new assets. Looking at the history, dividends seems to be increasing significantly over the last few months and there's been a hell of a lot of trading of Labcoin shares on BTC-TC over the last couple of weeks. The last div was basically double the previous one and if the they've doubled again by the next payout (2 months after the last one), then the divs would be around 0.01 BTC/share - or around 1/4 that of AM for about 1/3 the price. I think I'll need to do a bit more research before investing though, but it's seems to be looking good so far. If the price falls to 0.4 BTC per share and the next div is 0.01 BTC per share, then that's on par with AM now. |
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I'm looking at investing in this asset and have noticed that the share price has basically halved in the past 2 weeks. Is there a logical reason for this decrease, such as a contractual change/operational change, etc?
I can't see any notices about anything changing, but I did come across a comment about divs not being paid last month and the funds being used to hire legal advice. Was that just a one time thing? Will divs be getting paid again as usual this month?
Any other info that I should know about to help make my decision?
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