Here's some quotes from Guy:



I agree with Guy.

The problem for Spondoolies is that their main competitors are all offering cloud mining now and due to the extra costs of delivery, PSUs and electricity, cloud mining offers a better chance of making a profit from mining. Now, some of you guys clearly don't mind paying more to earn less but most people are in it for the money. Buying miners is simply no longer competitive for the majority of people.

Look at the SP20 for example. At 1152 W, you'd have the following costs for electricity:

At 0.15 $/kWh, daily electricity costs would be 1.152 kW * 24 h * $0.15 = $4.1472 or $0.00244 per Gh/s per day.
At 0.10 $/kWh, daily electricity costs would be 1.152 kW * 24 h * $0.10 = $2.7648 or $0.00163 per Gh/s per day.
At 0.05 $/kWh, daily electricity costs would be 1.152 kW * 24 h * $0.05 = $1.3824 or $0.00081 per Gh/s per day.

So what about having the SP20 hosted in a data centre? Toomin's seems to be a popular choice. For 12 months hosting, you pay $80 per kW per month. That works out to $0.00179 per Gh/s per day.

AMHash's maintenance fee is $0.00163 per Gh/s per day which is cheaper than having an SP20 hosted at Toomin's and the same as running an SP20 at 0.1 $/kWh. An SP20 costs $795 excluding shipping, which works out to $0.468 per Gh/s. That's equivalent to buying AMHash at an exchange rate of 389.71 $/BTC. For me, I'd have to add on $115 for shipping and $200 for a PSU, taking the total upfront cost to $1110, which works out to be $0.653 per Gh/s. That's equivalent to buying AMHash at 544.12 $/BTC. On top of that would be electricity costs of 0.24 $/kWh or $0.00390 per Gh/s per day.

Now, let's say Spondoolies were offering Gh/s contracts for 0.0012 BTC with a maintenance fee of $0.001 per Gh/s per day, would you guys honestly still prefer to buy an SP20? Do you honestly think the majority of people would?

Either Spondoolies starts offering cloud mining or it'll remain uncompetitive and sales will shrink accordingly.

LOL, cloudmining.website. That's definitely a ponzi.

From their FAQ:


ii. The market includes the manufacturers.

iv. So they sell the coins that are mined for a premium rate and think that's an excuse for not having a mining address linked with payouts? What currency do they sell for, USD? Then how do they pay dividends? Let me guess, they rebuy bitcoins at a bargain basement price to issue as dividends?

Like I said, I think two different things are being discussed.

If you had 50% of the network hash rate today, how much would you earn over a 24 hour period?
If you only had 10% tomorrow, how much would you earn over a 24 hour period?

Those two values are not the same. If they were, the percentage of the network hash rate would not matter and 1 Gh/s would earn just as much as 1 Ph/s. Clearly, that is not the case. 3600 BTC would be mined each day if the network hash rate was static. The percentage of that 3600 BTC that a miner gets is equal to their percentage of the network hash rate.

How ironic! 

I think you guys are talking about different things. AMHash's (and cloud mining in general) payout is based on difficulty. Mining isn't though. Mining payout (ignoring variance) works exactly like MichaelBliss said.

You don't need to emulate an android, there are windows and linux apps available, for example WinAuth.

What rerun? Previous financial statements:

In order for AMHash to have any advantage, wouldn't they actually need to have some contracts for sale?

Being a manufacturer has the clear advantage of getting miners at cost which allows those manufacturers to offer lower prices, especially when they have access to cheap electricity too. There's also the advantage of getting new miners based on new chips first, cutting costs even further.

I'll assume that was a typo because a cloud mining service without miners is simply a ponzi. As for other manufacturers that offer cloud mining, Spondoolies, Bitfury, and Avalon don't. Bitmain does, but their offer isn't as good:

<1.26 mBTC per Gh/s,
$0.001908 per Gh/s per day maintenance fee.

AMHash is ASICMiner - the oldest ASIC mining manufacturer - they're quite obviously legit and have provided plenty of evidence to show that. You'd have to be incredibly ignorant of bitcoin mining to think otherwise. Either that or just trolling...

Scam industry standard, maybe. Mining industry standard, hell no. The best equipment available today wouldn't even mine profitably for more than 3 years with tiny difficulty increases.

People, you need to look at this logically. If you bought enough hash rate to have 1 miner all to yourself and you got all the payout from that miner until it became unprofitable, do you honestly think the company is then going to buy a new miner out of their pocket and give it to you for free? A "5 year contract" would mean they would have to do so, and possibly do so more than once.

Nobody has mentioned AMHash yet.

It's ASICMiners cloud mining service so you can be sure it's not a ponzi.
1 Gh/s costs < 1.2mBTC
Maintenance fee of $0.00163 per Gh/s per day.
Contracts can be traded on Havelock.

It's not my chart by the way, it's from the Difficulty page of the the bitcoin wiki. Credit belongs to Adrian and Stephen Gornick.

This spreadsheet shows the past difficulty changes.. The network has decreased a few times.

AMHash. It's ASICMiner's cloud mining service so you know they're not a ponzi. It's on Havelock, so not only can you buy and sell Gh/s, you can buy and sell all kinds of securities if day-trading is your thing.

AMHash has a low up front cost of <1.2 mBTC and a low maintentance fee of $0.00163 per Gh/s per day.

Beside the exchange rate affecting the maintenance fee, that's how mining works. If you had 1 GH/s and the network hash rate was 100 Gh/s you would have 1% of the network hash rate. Around 3600 BTC are mined each day, so if you controlled 1% of the network you would receive 1% of that 3600 BTC. Now if the network increased to 200 GH/s you would only control 0.5% of the network hash rate and would receive 0.5% of the 3600 BTC.

So, if the network hash rate increases, your payout decreases.

I received a very similar sounding PM from around that same time if I remember correctly. It was from LorenzoMoney.

Is that a joke? You've done absolutely nothing at all with regards to promoting AMHash. It's us AM shareholders that are promoting AMHash while you sit on your arse doing nothing and get paid for it out of what should be our dividends. Here's how incompetent you are. You keep going on about AM needing to sell hash power and yet you keep removing the AMHash shares from sale so that nobody can actually buy them and you refuse to do any promotion.

"Hey, let's post about this cloud mining service in the securities thread, because day-trading speculators will surely want to buy cloud mining which is basically guaranteed to fall in price as difficulty increases. Let's ignore the fact that everyone else running a cloud mining service is posting about it in the "Services" and "Service Announcements" sub-forums because that's the obvious and logical place to post such things."

Seriously, if there's no official post about AMHash in the "service" sub-forums I mentioned (where all the other cloud-mining services are) then I'll have to draw the conclusion that you are deliberately working against the interests of AM shareholders.

Also, in the initial post it links to AMHash1 as the place to buy AMHash shares. Yeah it is, but none of those shares belong the AMHash, they belong to customers who are selling them, therefore no profits for AMHash, but plenty for Havelock.