I know what sonopan is but what is "bam?"

I just noticed, he has five (5) pools in the miner status.  I didn't know we could have more than 3.  Is that with the new firmware or what?

LOL, agreed...

Might have to have a mechanism to provide a steady mist of hydrogen while he's at it in order to keep them below 80C.  LOL

Only kidding around...

Yes, I'm like you.  I wonder how long it will last?  

Anyway, THAT is some serious mining there with the S7.  Can't be done without increasing the voltage.  Great job!

True, I have an old friend I used to work for who is a Master Electrican (certified).  All of it was commercial work.  I was only an apprentice then and took classes at night.  Did that for almost 3 years but quit shortly before taking a Journeyman's test to get a Journeyman's license.  All of this was in the late 1990's.  If you don't use it, you lose it.

I'm sure I could still do a large portion of the install myself but I would still need his guidance at times I'm sure.  I'm hoping the Contractor he and I worked for [He just retired about 4 months ago they said] will be able to contact him to give him my telephone number.  I'm going to call them again Monday to see if they had any luck.  They said they are not allowed to give personal phone numbers of employees or former employees.  So, I have to rely on them passing my number to him.  If that doesn't work out, I have to go with a contractor that's insured, bonded, licensed, etc...  I'm NOT paying anything up front.  

If I can find someone who is certified to guide me with what I should purchase and do's and don'ts when installing it, of course I would prefer that route.  However, it's still important to have a work permit issued for the job.  Also, the power company will not hook it up to the new upgrade if it has not been inspected [Has a green tag on it].  But yes, I would prefer to purchase all of the equipment myself and install most of it myself.  I just need to know [From a master electrician] everything I would need to purchase for the job.

I don't have an electrician I'm "buddies" with.  How am I to know if they aren't wanting to choose the route that makes them more money instead of going the route that saves me money?  I'm sure many electricians who over charge customers who are "ignorant" probably say, "Ignorance is bliss."

Sure, I'm going to tell them the load I need but also let them know I want to see prices on the hardware for both scenarios I mentioned to see which is the cheapest route.

I stayed up to read the NEC till 6:30am this morning.  I slept until 2:30pm.  It is 3:30pm now.  

I do not see it written like what prelude provided regarding the "feeder to the breaker.'  However, I do see many references of "...marked 100%."  So, I must conclude 80% is the rule for all Main breakers and other breakers installed in the Main Panel or Sub Panels unless otherwise stated on the breaker that is listed.

Now, I'm going to have to determine [After talking to electrician] if it will be cheaper to have a 700 amp service provided by the power company and installed by the electrician to get what I want [OR] get a 600 amp service with special breakers "marked 100%" in special panels.  I'm not sure which will be cheaper but I will find out and pass that information along in the forum.

Thanks for getting me to investigate this more, Prelude.

Now, back to more reading of the NEC 2015.

David

EDIT:  I went backward and deleted about 3 posts to save space in the forum.

I'm seeing right now [If this exist in the NEC] it was from an older edition.  It's not in 5.2.3 of Article 220 of the 2014 NEC.  Still reading.  It could be in another location.

One would think if you have an MSB rated for 100% usage, you're okay using 15A, 20A, 30A, 40A, 50A, etc... breakers not listed at 100% by using them at 80% of their rating.  I would believe the wire connected to the smaller circuit breakers [Installed on the poles in the service panel] that are not rated at 100% would be okay to use wire rated at 60c on up to 90c.  Especially, since the load on those circuits should not exceed 80%.  No?

I would think the important thing would be to have the MSB rated at 100% continuous from all of the other breakers in the panel at 80% load?

EDIT: I'm fine with paying extra for a larger Main Service Panel.

Thumbs Up...

I wish now I had not ordered kindle version.  It's taking longer.  Harder to navigate than a book in your hand.  I'm still reading.  If you are correct, [which you may very well be] this means I will spend the extra bucks on a MSB UL listed for 100% use.  That would be cheaper than having them install 750 amps to only use 80% of it.  No?

Prelude,

Ease up, please...

You cannot see my face or hear my tone, because I have no "tone."  Don't think this is a fighting match or an argument cause it's not.  I told you if you are correct, I will agree.  Yet, you continue to have "tone."  Or at least it appears that way.

I'm not looking for anything to "contradict," Sir.  I'm looking to see if it says what you posted.  If it does, then I will agree.  It's that simple.  I might learn something here.  Ease up.

Sounds good.  Better safe than sorry.  I couldn't find but portions of Article 220 online.  So, I just bought NEC 2014 for kindle.  I'm about to read it from there now.

Sure...

However, I'm still reading NEC 220.  It's long as hell.

The only breakers and MSP's I've ever used are Square D QO.  I've always been told I can run these at 100%.  This is what I have now.  I'm still reading Article 220

Here is my 200 Amp breaker.  Notice the rating for tripping?  However, this does not mean other breakers must be limited to 80% if used at 100% for more than 3 hours.  I'm still reading to see if what Prelude has provided is correct.

It's taking me a while.  I'm still reading Article 220

I thought this was coming up again.  As I've mentioned before, I want someone to show me in the NEC the Main Service Panel (MSP) must be derated to 75 or 80 percent.  You will see in several places to derate "circuits" connected to the service panel but not the MSP itself.

If you can provide a link to it saying this in the NEC, I'm all for it and will admit I'm wrong.

EDIT:  Don't provide an "opinion" from someone.  I want to see it in the NEC.

Also, show me a photo of a label for an MSP that is rated for a particular amperage that says to derate what it is rated for.

The "de-rating" only concerns circuits and their wiring.  Not the MSP those circuits are connected to.  This definitely applies to old wiring in old houses with a cloth shield instead of polyethylene.  However, there is still plenty of modern made shielding that needs to be derated.

I just got back from a birthday party.  I'll answer you properly in a PM.  Give me a little time.  I also need to know which batch S7's you have at present.  Depending on the batch, some may consume more watts (power) than others.

Also, the 80% is only limited to each individual circuit and not the Main Service Panel.  For instance, lets say you could spare 100 amps x 240 volts = 24,000 watts from you Main Service Panel (MSP).  The MSP is not limited to 80% but each individual circuit is.  This means you will simply have to add more circuits to reap the full benefits of the 24,000 watts available from your MSP in order to be safe.

If each of your circuits are 240V / 30A, that is a total of 7,200 watts.  80% of 7,200 watts = 5,760 watts.  IF each S7 you have is 1,210 watts each, you could have 4.76 S7's on each 30A/240V circuit.  So, not quite 5 x S7's.  If each of your S7's are 1,293 watts each, that would be 4.45 x S7's for each 30A/240V circuit if kept at 80%.  Most say to keep at 75% and many local electrical ordinances say 75%.  Also many insurance companies for Data Centers demand for them to keep each circuit to 75% instead of 80%.  I would imagine there is some lead way.  Meaning, the insurance company might say, "Keep each circuit to 75% +/- 1% or 2%.  It's best just to keep each circuit at 75%.  This simply means you add more circuits while keeping only 4 x S7's on each 30A/240V circuit to be on the safe side.

If you had 4 x S7's at 1,293 watts each, that would be 5,172 watts of the 24,000 watts available from your 24,000 watt setup with 100A service.  This equals 4.6 circuits.  Which means you cannot quite have 4 x S7's on that fifth circuit.  5,172 watts x 60% = 3,103 watts.  This means your fifth (5th) circuit can only have 2 x S7's on it.

Now, look at this:  You say you already have 4 x S7's at 1210 watts each.  That's a total of 4,840 watts. If we subtract that from 24,000 watts available, that leaves 19,160 watts.  Well, the only S7's available now are batch 8 @ 1,293 watts.  19,160/1,293 = 14.8 x S7's.  If we divide this by 4 x S7's for each circuit, this leaves 3.7 more circuits.  So, again, not quite 5 circuits with 4 x S7's on each circuit.  However, that ".7" of "3.7" means something:  If you had 3 x S7's batch 8 @ 1,293 each = 3,879 watts.  If we had 4 x S7's batch 8 on a circuit, that would be 5,172 watts.  That ".7" [or 70%] of 5,172 watts = 3,620 watts.  We just saw that 3 x S7's batch 8 @ 1,293 each = 3,879 watts.  So, still not quite enough available there for 3 x S7's batch 8 on that 5th circuit.

I personally believe you will be limited to 4 x 30A/240V circuits running at 75% on each circuit.  Then have only 2 x S7's batch 8 on the final circuit.  This will leave enough power (watts) remaining for one or two large fans.  One for out-take to suck heat out.  The other to suck air into the structure for good airflow and to offset static pressure.  I have two 7,400 CFM fans [One for out-take and one for in-take to reduce static pressure in my house and to provide good airflow.  Each one of these fans are 120V/2.5A (300 watts) each.  If yours is or will be similar, that is another 600 watts needed anyway for fans to keep your rigs cool.

So, in conclusion, I see 4 x 240V/30A circuits running @ 75% with 4 x S7's on each circuit = 16 x S7's.  And, another 2 x S7's running on a 5th circuit that can simply be a 20A 2 pole breaker at 75%.  Then you can have one or two circuits {doesn't matter} at 20A/120V for your in-take and out-take fans, modem, switch, etc.  

This means 18 x S7's at stock settings [Not over clocked] total with all of your peripherals.  If you over clock, it's a total different story.

EDIT:  I'm not sure how well the S7's under clock?  Meaning, they may still consume pretty much the same amount of voltage even when under clocked without a PSU that you can adjust the output voltage.  I mention this because you might consider under clocking to add more rigs.

Something else, you need to know for sure the exact voltage provided by your transformers.  2 pole or phase voltages can vary from 208 to 240.  It all depends on how the power company is providing the power to your house.  I'm assuming you have 2 poles (phases) in your Main Service Panel and not 3 poles (phases)?  If you had 3 poles 100 amp, you would have more power (watts) available than what I've mentioned.

How would you KNOW exactly how many volts is provided on two poles combined [208 to 240]?  You need a multi-meter with lower internal resistance than normal when measuring AC/DC voltage.  I recommend the following meter to measure your voltage across 2 poles:  The Triplett Model 310.  It doesn't matter if it's 310A, B, C or D.  

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XTriplett+model+310.TRS0&_nkw=Triplett+model+310&_sacat=0

Most digital meters have a higher internal resistance [When measuring voltage] and will give a higher reading.  Meaning, if you see 240 Volts with a digital meter, you might actually have only 220 Volts.  Using the Triplett Model 310 [With a much lower internal resistance] will give a more accurate reading of the actual Source Voltage you have.  If it turns out you have only 220 Volts, it may be the power company has installed a transformer that's capable of stepping up the voltage to 240 by simply terminating your feeder cable at a different position on the coils in the transformer.

EDIT #2:  Also, if you have only 220 Volts instead of 240 Volts, these figures I've come up with will change in terms of how many watts available for a certain number of rigs.

It's possible I could have overlooked something.  Anyone else is welcome to chime in.  I PROMISE, I won't bite.  

David

PS- I'll add what I'm doing in within another hour.  I just wanted to get posted what you needed to know first.

I'm working on that reply.  I just got back from a birthday party.  I'm about 10 minutes into my reply.

I had a post up earlier with two screenshots that was up only about 35 to 45 minutes.  I said I would take it down after an answer.  He answered shortly after I took it down.

+1