Bitcoin Forum
May 24, 2024, 06:01:30 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 »
141  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: yPool.net XPM Pooled CPU Mining!!! on: July 19, 2013, 10:59:11 PM
The miner for ypool can never match the efficiency of a solo miner, and it certainly can't compete with mikaelh's most recent builds.  This is because in pooled mining (at least ypool's implementation of it) the miners are paid to produce blocks of a lower-than-network difficulty, as in  Bitcoin.  This is not a problem in Bitcoin since you can't look for low difficulty shares without looking for high difficulty shares at the same time.

However, in Primecoin it is very possible to tune ones search for shorter chains.  For example if, after the sieve, you find a collection of 7 numbers that are in the form of a chain (e.g. H-1, 2H-1, 4H-1, 8H-1...) but the number on either side of the chain was proven to be composite then you should not waste time with an expensive primality test on any of the numbers--it will never be a valid share when the network difficulty is 8 or higher.  However, if miners are paid to produce shares of difficulty 7 then they should check this chain.

There are a few resolutions to this dilemma.  One possibility is that everyone checks all chains that aren't long enough to be network shares but could still be pool shares.  This is fair for everyone--nobody has an advantage over anyone else--but it means that fewer blocks are generated overall (everyone is wasting time that doesn't benefit the network).  Another possibility is that some people ignore the shorter chains, while others check all chains.  This gives an unfair advantage to the people checking the shorter chains--they will produce fewer valid blocks for the pool this way while producing more shares and taking a larger cut of the profits.  The final option is if everyone only checks the longer chains while ignoring the shorter ones.  This is the solution that gives the highest average payout and is the one that ypool is trying for, but it has the problem that if anyone wants to increase their payout they just have to change a couple lines of code and suddenly they can start taking a higher payout.  This is a classic case of the Tragedy of the Commons.

I have explained this attack in detail to (who I think were) the operators of ypool and they have continued to operate.  The only case where mining with them is a wise decision is if you are so averse to variance that you are willing to take an enormous cut to your profits (e.g. 50% or more) in exchange for a more regular payout.
Fascinating.  So do you think primecoin is going to end up fundamentally incompatible with pooled mining simply because of the nature of the computational work being done for the coin, or are the problems that you have outlined likely only specific to ypool's implementation and solvable by a different and creative approach to parceling out work to pool participants?

If primecoin ultimately became a coin that was considered optimal to GPU mine, but significantly suboptimal to pool mine, that would make it quite the unusual coin, and would leave small miners with no escape from high variance.

142  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XPM] [ANN] Primecoin High Performance on: July 19, 2013, 03:21:54 AM
Just wanted to say great miner!  I feel like this is probably the most optimized miner on the market right now.  Looking over the source code of the original miner and yours I think I see a way to make the miner (potentially much) faster from a mathematical standpoint rather than a code-optimization standpoint.  My optimization centers around the Primorial and the loop that occurs in main.cpp on line 4622.

Before getting into the code, it is important to realize why a primorial is helpful (if you already understand this, skip this paragraph).  With numbers on the order of 2256 there is about a 1 in 177 chance that a random number is prime.  If you select 8 random numbers, then, the odds of all of them being prime is about 1 in 1 quintillion--impractically low.  If you limit your search to only odd numbers, though, the odds shoot up tremendously.  Further limiting your search to numbers not divisible by 3, 5, 7, and so on can cause the odds of finding a prime number to become much, much better.  If the hash value is divisible by lots of these small numbers then multiples of that hash ± 1 will not be divisible by any of those numbers.  Thus, it is convenient to use a hash that is already a multiple of 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 * ... as it will produce far more primes than another hash.

As I understand the aforementioned loop, the program is searching for a hash that is divisible by a primorial.  Each iteration of this loop requires a hash to be generated as it increments the nonce value.  In the present form the primorail is of degree 7 (line 4579: static const unsigned int nPrimorialHashFactor = 7).  I suspect that this value is carefully chosen and it's probably ideal with the way that it is written.  However, I think there's an additional step that can be added to make the process much faster.  Increasing the degree of the primorial is incredibly expensive as it gets larger, since adding the 8th prime requires 19 times as many hashes to be checked; the 9th prime requires 23 times as many, and so on.  There is another way, though.

Prime origins are required to be in the form O = H * N where O is the origin, H is the hash, and N is any integer; H is selected to be divisible by p#7 (the primorial shown above).  If we extend this to O = H * N * P2 where P2 is 19 * 23 * 29 * ... * 51--a product of primes starting after the last prime used in the existing search--then the checked origin is still valid (an integer times an integer is still an integer).  This grants the benefits of searching with a higher degree primorial while not requiring a longer search for a working hash.  

Nothing is free, though, as this method inflates the size of the primes to be checked.  If the fast modular exponentiation is implemented through the same method as is used on the Fermat Primality Test Wikipedia page then the algorithmic efficiency is O(log2(n) * log(log(n)) * log(log(log(n))) ).  There should be some sweet spot of how large of a primorial to use where the increased frequency of primes more than offsets the extra time required for the fast modular exponentiation.  It's possible that the sweet spot is 0 extra primes, but I think it's worth looking into.
Number theorist in the hizzouse!
143  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: XPM on Amazon EC2 on: July 19, 2013, 02:22:11 AM
seems to settle around 2000-2100 PPS on a 4 core, "8 ECU", m1.xlarge using mikaelh hp4.

hp5 is now available, but I don't have data on that.

144  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [XPM] Price Prediction...market cap cracked 1 Million already on: July 18, 2013, 04:46:59 PM
It is hard to predict what the arrival of pool mining and/or GPU mining -- both of which seem inevitable -- would eventually do to primecoin.  But both seem like they might make primecoin a little less unique and more of "just another coin".

145  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][CSC] CasinoCoin - The Premiere Coin for Online Casino Gaming | No Premine! on: July 18, 2013, 01:16:58 AM
Is there any games out there support this coin?
Daytrading.
146  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary on: July 17, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
Any further intel on the viability of using K16 boards with p2pool?  If I recall correctly, there was concern expressed a while back in this thread that latency issues with the chips or some such might cause issues with p2pool.  I may have missed the resolution of this discussion, if there was one.

  
147  Economy / Securities / Re: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement on: July 17, 2013, 02:52:18 AM
Lab_rat  what hardware have you ordered with BFL , dates on which order was placed with BFL or do you already have got some BFL hardware to mine with ?
This question was not directly answered by Lab_Rat.

However from the overall presentation of the offering, I infer the answers are:  1) nothing has been ordered from BFL yet, 2) not applicable since not ordered yet, 3) no hardware is presently available to mine with.

Lab_Rat, please clarify if I have inferred the wrong answers.



148  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 16, 2013, 11:20:34 PM
You must be a woman cause you misunderstand everything.

A woman's perspective can be priceless but not if you're insecure or if you lack logic the way most women do.  And trust me, I'd give anything for that to not be true.  I'm no sexist, its just the way it is and with women thinking there equal to men it's like little 5 year olds running Around your house bossing you around and trying to take your life over - it can only end on tragic disaster.
  
Do you go out of your way to alienate people, or does it just come naturally?   Do you imagine all your "ten-star" coders are men?

Reputation matters on these boards, particular when we are so pseudoanonymous to each other and have little else to go on.  You just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself.

The advice that someone gave you a few pages back to start a new account, which you so emphatically rejected, really wasn't so bad an idea, although with the kind of the vitriol you tend to express, I'm not sure you'd manage to keep the old and new identities unlinked for long.





149  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XPM] [ANN] Primecoin High Performance on: July 16, 2013, 08:46:23 PM
I have been getting blocks steadily at a specific rate each day. Anyone want to know how?
So have I!  The specific rate is zero.

150  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [KGC] Why Krugercoin on: July 16, 2013, 07:22:50 PM
Krugercoin is a digital version of Krugerrand.
Cool.  Although, in your excitement, you inadvertently left out the precise details of how to redeem these digital Krugerrands at a 1:1 ratio for the tangible, gold variety. 

151  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ONC] Onecoin - CPU only - Pools opened! on: July 16, 2013, 06:49:34 PM
I'm a bit surprised this never made it onto an exchange.  Did the funky decimals create too much integration work?
152  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 16, 2013, 05:38:43 PM
My wife cut me off now after I spent $1,400 on domain names nobody cares about

BitcoinClown.org

Uh oh...



153  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 16, 2013, 04:31:25 PM
I have been away from the academy for a while, but it is my sincere hope that all self-respecting economics departments have by now incorporated some basic computer science instruction into the curriculum, particular when delving into econometrics and other quantitative topics.

154  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 16, 2013, 04:44:31 AM
I0oin died (and bankers don't want a coin with I and zero in it, ixCoin never died even though it should have.  Look for things that should have been but for reason it beat all odds.  This is how I predicted Obama would win both elections when most thought no way.

Also, ixCoin has a fully intact block chain, also a small miracle.  The founder came back out of the blue.  It's being accumulated heavily -(in part by me, I own almost 1 %).  IxCoin is also 9Coin.   There's historic statistical data behind the numbers 3,5,7,9, 12, 49 and their derivatives, that's just a plus.

There's more than this but you add them all together snd when way too many of these fit together then that's a huge sign.

I'm a banker and if I'm looking to sell the next bitcoin ETF then the best coin is ixCoin cause its been around from the beginning, it's never died, the premine is jack, it's done snd gone, the premine money is gone, and the founder is back, its a perfect clone only more liquidity as a much faster block chain and even the founders name is a copy of Satoshi.  I mean, that's an ETF Pipe DREAM if Bitcoin indeed makes it with its own ETF.
No Dr. Pepper this time (I learned my lesson earlier in this thread), but, woah.  Just, woah.

155  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TimeCoin (TMC) Released! New Cryptocurrency! on: July 15, 2013, 05:10:12 AM
Most launches by the time difficulty adjusts its far far too late, some massive chunk of all the coins ever have already been pre-mined by the instaminer method leaving the whole chain just another totally scammy obvious pump and dump scrapcoin.
+1
156  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 15, 2013, 04:13:29 AM
But even in a pool, where the big miners gets the golden blocks faster, the small miner will still get way more coins than the expected 49 coins.  That right there is a gift from the large miner for something the small miner did nothing to deserve.  You guys fail to see the big picture c
This is where the Dr. Pepper almost came out my nose.  Say what?
157  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 15, 2013, 03:05:46 AM
It appears the relevant "VGB" code is:

Code:
std::string cseed_str = prevHash.ToString().substr(8,7);
const char* cseed = cseed_str.c_str();
long seed = hex2long(cseed);

int rand = generateMTRandom(seed, 100000);

if(rand > 50000 && rand < 50011)
nSubsidy = 10045 * COIN;  //The VGB Protocol Random 250x Block Award

As others have noted, this superblock does nothing to reward small miners, as larger miners have their usual proportionally larger change of mining the superblock.

I see nothing that should interest smaller miners in this coin.

158  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER Speculation Thread on: July 11, 2013, 07:55:53 PM
The reckoning will come when we see Friedcats own photo
U_U He taunted us with his IPO meeting reference now I know hes not satoshi but I want to solve the mystery XD
Ask one of the board maybe ha-ha no I'm being stalkerish  Grin
I haven't read all of friedcat's posts, but is there any particular reason for assuming friedcat is male?

159  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Kenilworth Exploration - Real World Mining Opportunity with Bitcoins on: July 02, 2013, 05:21:00 PM
Enjoyed the webinar.  A few thoughts:

EDIT: In particular, if the prices are fixed at $0.19 for round 1 and $0.23 for round 2 as stated in the "Share Structure" doc, aren't you undermining investor interest in round 1?  That's only a 21% markup for round 2 shares.  Why wouldn't a rational investor wait until round 2, after the survey report, and see if you've struck the proverbial gold mine?

The Board reserve the right to alter the offer price on any round based on exploration developments.

Quote from: shadallion
I share Kyune's concern that Round 1 investors don't seem to have much incentive to sit and have their bitcoins do nothing for X amount of weeks.

Implicit in Prendergast123's response is the incentive -- if the survey finds large deposits, presumably the Board would be motivated to sell subsequent rounds at higher prices, and round 1 investors would be rewarded (compared to subsequent investors) for their risk-taking and for parking their coins for what seems like an eternity in bitcoin-time.  Whether that reward would be adequate compensation is, of course, unclear.



160  Economy / Securities / Re: Gauging Interest: Difficulty Derivatives? Miners lock in future Diff. on: July 02, 2013, 07:11:56 AM
For this to really work well, I think we need a real futures exchange, where people can take part on either side of the trade, and the exchange is well capitalized to reduce counter-party risk. Margin requirements and settlements would also have to be very carefully worked out.

I'll add though, I believe the security you are thinking of launching may already exist: See iDiff futures: http://mpex.co/ https://bitfunder.com/asset/CoinBr.iDiff-E
Agreed.

It's hard to gauge how much room there is for another asset in this space in the absence of a fully-functional futures market.  We already have several tools scattered around the exchanges but I'm not sure they are getting that much traction for these purposes.  In addition to the iDiff futures, taking long positions in DMS.SELLING (https://btct.co/security/DMS.SELLING) or writing options on DMS.PURCHASE (as detailed in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228327.msg2435960#msg2435960) can be done today.



Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!