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1481  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin Off-The-Grid (BOTG): secure savings script v0.1.1 on: November 02, 2011, 03:22:18 PM
Damned it, information about all this stuff seem quite dispatched every here and there.

I'd be interested in learning more about Casascius's formats (called "mini private key"  I think) and the "wallet import format".

Any entry in the wiki?  I can't contribute personnaly these days, but I'd be very happy if someone could centralize intel about those formats.
1482  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 28, 2011, 10:06:38 AM
I don't really see other countries complaining about broken education systems, or doing any reforming other than tweaking and updating curriculums with more modern material. Certainly not in any of the places I've studied or have friends in. Again, this seems like a very American problem.

i have difficulties following this overlong thread but I'd like to respond to this quickly.

in France a new method called 'méthode globale' has been introduced recently to teach children how to read.  It basically consisted in NOT teaching kids the alphabet.  Instead, kids were taught to recognized small words directly, as if they were ideograms.  It seemed to helped a few children who had reading difficultes with the classical abc method.   But once this method was generalized, in the long run it appeared to be a freaking disaster.  Many kids were simply unable to read or write correctly once they entered higher schools, and some studies showed that the global method was responsible.

I personnaly think there is no surprise if the State is a poor educator.  To teach kids, it spends money in the worst possible way, according to Friedman:

Quote
There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money
on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what youre doing,
and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money
on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then
Im not so careful about the content of the present, but Im very careful about
the cost. Then, I can spend somebody elses money on myself. And if I spend
somebody elses money on myself, then Im sure going to have a good lunch!
Finally, I can spend somebody elses money on somebody else. And if I spend
somebody elses money on somebody else, Im not concerned about how much it is,
and Im not concerned about what I get. And thats government. And thats close
to 40% of our national income.   Fox News interview (May 2004)

1483  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 27, 2011, 09:29:21 AM
An other thing:  if public education aims at providing education to the poor, why on earth is it proposed to everybody???

Does the State assume that every one is a poor thing that must be taken care of?


I should hope it assumes that, rich or poor, kids don't chose what life they were born into, and everyone should be given an equal chance at starting life before they get to a point where they actually can make their own choices, for better or worse.

This is a terrible assertion.  You seem to be advocating for equality at the cost of uniformity, which terribly reminds me of "The brave new world".  You are basically saying that parents should not have the right to make decisions regarding the education of their offspring, otherwise some children might be disavantaged in the future.  You might as well assume that parenthood should be outlawed and that children should be raised like orphans, in public institutions, by State employed surrogate mothers.

An other reason why this is wrong is that nobody knows what is the best education for children, if such a thing exists.  And if it does exists, I very much doubt that public centralization of decision regarding pedagogic methods is the best way to find out what it is.  Giving the responsability of educating millions of children to a few technocrats is a total madness, imho.

It is crazy to advocate for the same education to hundreds of millions of children, just in order to prevent a small percentage of them from not having some.
1484  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 01:48:53 PM
This is the kind of "Mary has three apples" bullshit that never applies in the real world. In the real world, everybody just kind of pays shit. And the more unregulated you get (see late 1800s America), the shittier it is. And in the real world, virtually all industries trend slowly but surely towards monopoly.

There is nothing wrong with a monopoly as long as it emerges from free market.  A coercive monopoly is not compatible with liberalism.

I don't know about the 19th century, but it seems to me that your country has developped quite a lot during this period.

1485  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 01:36:11 PM
Quote from: grondilu
Capitalism is the private ownership of means of production.  Period.  There is nothing in such a definition about elected morons spoiling other people's property or rich people corrupting those elected morons.  Or other stuffs like that.

The corrupted capitalism you seem to dislike is much more a problem with democracy than with capitalism.

And for about the tenth time I have to ask, why do you think rampant greed, corruption, exploitation and other unsavory business practices would suddenly cease under a powerless government? Why would you think companies with virtually unlimited resources and no real rules would be the least bit ethical, based on the last 400 years of capitalism?

Because between competing companies there is an equilibrium of forces, and the less greedy finally gets the more customers.

I want to exploit a poor worker by giving him one penny to build a thing that I'll sell one dollar.  Now, comes an other ugly capitalist pig who talks to my worker and offers him two pennies.  My worker resigns and work for my competitor.  Then an other guy offers three pennies, and so on.

Quote
Are you French? They're the only ones I've ever seen pluralize the word "stuff". Just curious.

Yes, I am.  Please spare me your french bashing.
1486  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 01:18:19 PM
Coincidentally, the "untrue" ones all happen to be the inconvenient ones. Funny how that works out.

Capitalism is the private ownership of means of production.  Period.  There is nothing in such a definition about elected morons spoiling other people's property or rich people corrupting those elected morons.  Or other stuffs like that.

The corrupted capitalism you seem to dislike is much more a problem with democracy than with capitalism.
1487  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 01:10:07 PM
Say, if everything we know now about capitalism is completely invalid because of government intervention, how is it that you have so much faith in something so untested? Or do you just go ahead and count all of the pluses as benefits of capitalism and decry every negative as government influence, no matter what the reality?

Not everything we know about capitalism is wrong.  Some aspects of it are, but not all of them.

Everything I use every day comes from capitalism.  From the food I eat to the computer I use to type this message.  I also own company shares whose dividends pay most of my bills.  Whithout capitalism I'd be totally helpless, poor and ignorant.   That's pretty much why I have "faith" in it, to answer your question.
1488  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 12:24:43 PM
I'm pretty sure that's the appropriate response to "heh, fuck it, who cares, let the poor die".

I am not a cynical person.  But I am lucid enough to aknowledge the existence of poverty in this world, and still being able to sleep well.

And anyway, I believe economic freedom is the best way to reduce poverty.  Communism or socialism just spreads it.
1489  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 12:13:42 PM
If we ever have a libertarian society, hopefully you'll be the first person killed by the desperate poor for half a loaf of bread. Fuck you.

Hum... lots of anger in your speech.  And you say WE are sociopaths??

Quote
Nobody's stopping you from going to a private school where no dirty poors will ever approach you.

Except that I'll still have to pay for public schools via taxation.  I guess I'll be OK to do that, providing that public shchools are reserved to poor people, so they don't cost too much for the tax payer.


1490  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 11:54:54 AM
An other thing:  if public education aims at providing education to the poor, why on earth is it proposed to everybody???

Does the State assume that every one is a poor thing that must be taken care of?
1491  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 25, 2011, 11:33:12 AM
I currently do so. I do not understand its relevance with regards to my involvement in this thread.

http://www.schoolonwheels.org/

And just how does that not prove my point?  As mentionned above, it's easy to find good people
willing to give free education.  Basically YOU guys.

Also, if I'm wrong and that nobody's willing to do it, so be it.  Poor people will have to pay,
just as they have to pay to eat, get dressed and find shelter.

Being poor means there are things you can't afford. By definition.  Libertarianism does not
have any pretention to eradicate poverty.  It might claim it's the best way to reduce it, but that's all.
1492  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 24, 2011, 03:23:18 PM
Fucking inefficient big government. What have they ever done for humanity besides getting us to the moon and inventing the Internet?

"getting us to the Moon".   You're a member of the Apolo expedition??
1493  Local / Other languages/locations / Re: Esperanto ! on: October 24, 2011, 01:23:44 PM
Sed mi timas ke la oficialeco de la angla kiel konferenca lingvo fortimigus ilin.

Plue, mi timas ke multaj esperantistoj estas tro 'maldekstraj' por shati la ideon de bitcoin (aux bitmono, mi ne estas certe pri kiel nomi gxin).
1494  Local / Hors-sujet / les indignés au Canada on: October 23, 2011, 09:13:44 AM

Pitoyable:

http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/regional/archives/2011/10/20111020-173600.html

Ces gars là sont vraiment des charlots.

Transcription:

MONTRÉAL - Les rumeurs de voies de fait, d’agression sexuelle, de vandalisme et de consommation de drogue préoccupent de plus en plus les organisateurs du mouvement Occupons Montréal, car la violence a fait son entrée dans le camp du square Victoria.

Jeudi matin, quelques «indignés» levés tôt partageaient leurs inquiétudes quant à la sécurité du site après cinq jours d’occupation.

La nuit précédente, une jeune femme aurait «presque été agressée sexuellement» ou «attouchée», selon les témoignages récoltés, information qui n’a toutefois pas été possible de vérifier auprès des policiers. Le fautif aurait été arrêté.

«On a des problèmes parce que des gens ne savent pas se contrôler, s’inquiétait une occupante en colère. Nous ne sommes pas ici pour faire la fête. Il y en a qui viennent ici pour faire le party et non pour faire avancer les choses.»

Les sans-abri pointés du doigt

Les sans-abri seraient pointés du doigt dans plusieurs événements violents survenus ces derniers jours.

«Ça devient difficile de gérer les gens qui n’ont pas rapport dans l’occupation», concède un manifestant.

Harcèlement, comportement déplacé ou menaçant, hurlements sur le trottoir en pleine nuit, les problèmes s’accumulent.

«Un gars est entré dans sa tente et il y avait deux itinérants dedans. Il leur a dit de s’en aller, mais ils lui ont donné deux coups de poing dans le visage», a raconté un «indigné».

La drogue pose aussi problème. Les occupants du square ont voté une motion de non-consommation d’alcool et de drogue cette semaine, mais quelques-uns en font fi.

«Les vrais changements viennent quand on est lucide», a lancé un occupant au milieu d’une discussion, en faveur du règlement sur la sobriété.

Création d’un «Service d’ordre»

Parmi les solutions, les uns proposent la création d’un «Service d’ordre», une sorte de police interne qui aurait le mandat de surveiller ce qui se passe.

Plutôt froid à l’idée d’une telle autorité, d’autres proposent tout simplement que chacun se responsabilise soi-même. Une autre personne a proposé quant à elle de dresser une liste des travailleurs sociaux disponibles afin de contrôler les cas problématiques.

Un autre a carrément proposé de fermer le campement sous prétexte qu’il devenait hors de contrôle.
1495  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? on: October 23, 2011, 08:29:02 AM
How would regular currency (USD, EUR) work in a P2P exchange? I mean, we need to have something to exchange the Bitcoins for in the P2P exchange. How do we get the USD, EUR etc. in the system?

P2P is peer-to-peer or people to people if you want.  So in a P2P exchange, there is no compensation, escrow or stuff like that.   If you want to sell 1 BTC for 3USD, you find a buyer, you send him the bitcoins, and he sends you the 3USD directly (cash in the mail, wire transfer, whatever...)


It's not as convenient, nor as reassuring as a centralized exchange, but at least it is 100% legal/bureaucrat free.
1496  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 23, 2011, 08:25:41 AM
There's nothing in the principles of libertarianism that makes it incompatible with charity. What it is incompatible with is forcing others to empty their pockets to the needy at gunpoint. If you can acknowledge that distinction then we will be getting somewhere.

If ONLY it went to the needy i wouldn't feel so bad about the system.  But it gets gobbled up mostly by underworked bureaucrats with lavish pay and pension, and overpriced or unnecessary crony contractors.

+1

In France there has been a study recently, about the amount of tax money used to pay people in charge of organizing distribution of public help to homeless people.  Once we divided the total amount by the number of those homeless people, it was almost enough to pay them an hotel room.  Every night.
1497  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 22, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
I am not accepting private companies in charge of safety. Many airlines have closed because of safety failures and they are all racing to the bottom.

Nobody forces you to follow them to the bottom.  You don't have to get in a plane if you think it is not safe.

On the contrary, you must pay for public education via taxation, even if you think public schools are mass indoctrination camps or just places where you put your kids to be watched for, during your working day.

Quote
Sociopaths (libertarians) are not necessarily the result of the education system. There are systemic problems in all regulatory areas that privatization has infected. Mental health and healthcare in general are also to blame, among others.

Well, this is very much an assertion with no proof whatsoever.  The opposite could sound just as true.

And they would certainly be some good people who would be happy to provide free education, just by generosity.

Wishful thinking.

Not so much.  Consider this internet dialog.  It's not just a fight to get the opposite camp rally the other's side.   It is also, whether it is conscious or unconscious, a way for us to try to "educate" other people and bring them to a more reasonable point of view.   And we do that for free.  So I think there is a big tendency in human nature to share knowledge amongst one another.  I like to see things this way anyway.   Consider also projects such as wikipedia.

I sincerely believe that in a free and globally wealthy society, most of the education system would be voluntary based, and free as in 'free beer'.

But call that wishfull thinking if you want.  I'm OK with that.  At least you'd have proven that libertarians are not as cynical as you seem to think so.

1498  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 22, 2011, 01:39:27 PM
You know what else those mentioned private industries have in common? The poor can't afford to use them. We already have very nearly the worst social mobility in the First World, and you guys are chomping at the bit to make it even worse.

I don't see why poor people could not afford some education.  Surely not as good an education as the one a child of a rich family could afford, but still they could get some.  And they would certainly be some good people who would be happy to provide free education, just by generosity.


1499  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 22, 2011, 01:19:02 PM
Private companies can self regulate, but they will factor in acceptable death rates to how much it would cost to change their business practices. If the rates of deaths get too high, there is still no accountability and they will simply reorganize and outsource for plausible deniability. All corporations are in a race-to-the-bottom line. There needs to be an independent authority with regulatory powers to maintain safety.

Sure, but this is even more a reason to privatize education.   If you accept that private companies are in charge of your safety in a plane, why wouldn't you accept that private companies are in charge of your education?

A bad education is a terrible thing in life, but unlike flight transportation, it won't kill you.   Also, as you said yourself, most libertarians are poorly educated.  So I guess they are a living proof that public education is terrible anyway.    I don't see why private education could not do better.
1500  Other / Off-topic / Re: Libertarians Are Sociopaths on: October 22, 2011, 12:55:31 PM
The problem with most libertards is that they want to dismantle things like publicly funded education which makes no sense to sane people.

Please tell us why exactly.   Education is important, sure, but I don't see why it means that it should be publicly founded.   Being able to eat is important just as well, and yet nobody would seriously consider to socialize all the food industry.

The food you eat must be government regulated or the risk to your health and life goes way up by eating it. The airplane you fly, the car you drive, etc. must all have government regulation for safety. While I believe that education must adapt to the new information age paradigm, there still needs to be societal (i.e. governmental) regulation.

Public education is not just regulated, it is organized and founded with taxation.

The regulated industries you are talking about are NOT publicly founded.  Most of them are privately owned.  They offer a service and customers pay for it.   At most, State intervenes to impose some safety and quality standards.   Why should it be different with education ??!!!  

Moreover, I don't see why we need state to organize a regulation system.  This could be done by a private company.  Or better:  by several, competing regulation companies.   IEEE, for instance, was initiated by a pool of engineers working in the electronics sector.  I don't think they were State employees.
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