It's good that people are trying, but I want to stress to everyone that a much better plan is to keep your coins instead of giving them to some randoms and hoping to get it back thru law enforcement and lawsuits. How much money has been returned to people that lost money to Pirate and Karpeles, who have court cases/rulings going against them in the US and Japan? You expect more to come from a romanian lawfirm going after unknown people in wherever or finding and tracking down the people running this thing?

It's very easy to prove the fraud. Getting money back from the people perpetuating the fraud is a completely different story, especially when you know the whole point of crypto is to make that hard to impossible.

All great reasons for the still unnamed for no reason mining operator to offer this and terrible reasons for people to buy it. What are these guys going to do when all the people that can't do math run out of money?

Where is that number coming from? Pirate "had" 5 million and that sam was covered all over bitcointalk, reddit, and everywhere else people talk about crypto. If this was almost half the size of that everyone would know about it, not 1 thread on the altcoin section.

Even if true, that's not really big enough for the people who deal with shit like this, and the best part (for admin anyway) is that no individual put in enough money on their own to make hiring lawyers/PI's to investigate him/collect worth it. Pirate had double that number, and was stupid/cocky enough to meet people in person and let them know exactly who he was, and where he was. A totally different situation from an unknown guy in an unknown part in a huge country on the other side of the planet.

Accepting money from you guys to mine bitcoins and not mining is fraud. Any of the other scenarios you guys have come up with for this to be something besides a ponzi is most likely some type of securities fraud. A ponzi scheme is fraud.

It's not likely that it is scenario A that I pointed out and mismanagement or bad luck because the reward levels don't seem to coincide with scrypt coin difficulty and/or prices (besides all the other reasons people have posted that make it unlikely that there is/was mining happening.)

The hope by dragging it out is to give them more time to hide/launder the money and hope that this drags out long enough that people will give up/be to embarrassed to go to the authorities. People here are claiming to have made untold riches here and people are acting like there is serious money involved, but this is very small scale and overly complicated compared to what the people that would handle this handle on a regular basis so it's unlikely that the authorities will be much help anyway.

You don't own a hashlet because they never existed. I haven't kept track of the new teams since GAW "died" but aren't they all made up of people who were in position to know that hashlets didn't exist so they are either stupid for not realizing or an asshole for knowing and going along with the scam?

Why on earth would you trust them with your coins and/or to do anything to bring the value up? I will give you the same advice I've given everyone else caught up in this mess, sell now, get out what you can, and move on. x% of your "investment" is better than 0%, no matter how small x is. There have been a few pumps where someone would have been burned a little by ignoring my advice, but this has been in a constant free fall since the beginning, and is going to keep going down. Get out now with something instead of hoping for a miracle.

"trying their hand at mining" is dumb. There are 2 reasons to mine, get bitcoins, secure the network. These miners are already running, paying an unnamed person won't help there, so the only reason is to get bitcoins. It doesn't make sense to "try mining" via someone else's miner unless you will get more bitcoins than you can get from the market, and if that were the case it wouldn't make sense for that person to let you try. As soon as everyone realizes this the hashrate and price will stabilize to something that makes sense.

Cloud mining makes little sense to me.

Once upon a time it made sense to sell miners because it wasn't possible to run all of the miners that you could make and/or own. People running "legit" cloud mining have the capability to run all of the miners that they have, so why would they rent them to you if they could make more money by just running them? If they had profitable miners they wouldn't rent them, if they had unprofitable miners it wouldn't make sense to actually run them and take the time, energy, and money to maintain them because they can just give you back a portion of the coins you gave them, so I doubt the existence of a legitimate, profitable cloud mining because that seems like an oxymoron to me.

As for trading, if you can do it, great, do it, but be careful because there are lots of coins out there built on nothing that can crash at any time. Similarly to cloud mining, I would not advise giving your coins to someone else to trade, because if they were good at trading, they wouldn't need your coins. These markets are not as big as trading markets in the real world, and trading coins doesn't have the same barrier to entry that real life stock markets have, so again, there I wouldn't give my coins to someone else to trade. If they could trade, they wouldn't need your money, AND if somehow they can trade, just because they can do it with 1 btc doesn't mean they will get the same results with 2 BTC because the altcoin markets are too small and slippage will eat into profits a lot.

15% APR while the people you give your coins to get 25% on your coins giving them enough coins to dump and screw you out of any potential profit sounds like a sure-fire winning plan.

Also, I'm not sure which group of idiots and/or assholes is running xpy.io, but since they were somehow involved in that "huge pump and dump of doom" getting involved in their next venture seems like another A+ investing strategy.

If you don't return to me 1 BTC or more for every 1 BTC I give you I am in a worse position fiat wise than I would be if i had nothing, no matter what the btc/usd exchange rate.

That is the comparison people need to make. It's not the same as saying "I should have night apple stock instead of X 20 years ago," that is an actual decision. If you do not return the amount of coins you are given you are a worse "investment" than literally doing nothing.

Once people realize that and stop subsidizing miners via stuff like this and preorders to scumbag companies mining might make sense again.

There is definitely a downside if the price goes up. If the price goes up they will be more fucked than if they bought coins today (dollars wise), and if the price goes up more people will be able to afford the electricity to run miners or have incentive to run miners which will make the difficulty go up which will make this operation make less money.

Because if I can sell my entire stake right now and get out with a profit, it makes sense to do it before someone else does it and leaves you fucked. the coin has no trading volume. What happens when 1 person realizes that they can make a profit (or not get totally fucked) by selling all their shit right now and not caring about the price? You can't do the math of number of coins I have now times price because you can't actually get that if you sell everything via slippage. You tell yourself it's in your best interest to sell a bit at a time, and hope that everyone does that, but what happens if someone thinks it's in their best interest to dump and cash out? Why do people expect other people to care about the price after they cash out? I see people make that assumption so many times with all sorts of coins and just don't get it. This coin did $25 volume yesterday and people act like it's some sort unstoppable beast where everyone is cashing out a little as they go and getting rich magically, when in reality everyone is sitting there collecting coins, and some people are just waiting until they have enough to get out.

These things just don't make sense.

Will this hashpower generate $550k worth of bitcoin in a year? If yes, the company is stupid for making this offer, why should I trust them to maintain the miners and send all that profit back to me over the next year?

If no, you would be stupid to pay someone and they would be stupid to actually waste electricity on miners, and in competing with the rest of the miners that they own over coins mined when they can just take that pile of coins and pay back like you do with B.MINE.

You say they are transparent but they offer nothing. You say there is no conflict of interest, but every miner has a conflict of interest with every other miner by trying to sovle the same blocks and making the difficulty go up.

This is the freedom that BTC provides. The freedom to put your money into something like this and watch it disappear.

still have major questions about the intelligence and possible integrity of the mining operator.

This is not a pre-sale. they have the miners, allegedly, they can prove they have it, they can prove they are mining with it. They are selling a large bunch to you on a certain date. A pre-order is for stuff that doesn't' exist, this exists.

The "issues" with  other "cloud mining" operations come from the fact that they are all scams. the whole point of crypto is that everything is in the blockchain. Those scam operations weren't mining, never proved it, and ran out of money. If this operation is legitimate, it would be trivially easy for the operator and you to show it, and none of the issues that are associated with pre-sales and cloud mining would exist.

This excuse for a "secret identity" is bullshit.

The "negative association" is for preorders of machines that don't exist and end up never existing or being way late and/or not close to the specifications that people paid for. If this is supposed to start mining at some point in the next 3 weeks that hardware should not be a pre-order, it should be hashrate from machines that already exist and are already running somewhere. Handing over money without proof of that hashrate existing is insane.

Also, if I want the "equivalent of.." mining power why wouldn't I get B.MINE? If this is backed by real power the payout should be the actual proceeds of mining.

HIs project is probably just mocking you or some other scumbag trying to rob people.

I am not being conned by anyone because I'm not giving any money to any random over the internet.

he can be completely full of shit, but that doesn't change the posts he found of you saying shit that doesn't match up timeline wise.

I'm just trying to help you out a little, because you haven't proven to be the scumbag that most of the people starting up businesses prove to be, yet, but if you want to keep ranting and raving and making yourself look stupid, go right ahead. Bruno could come here and say he made the whole thing up and I still wouldn't dream of doing business with you because your actions on this thread make you seem insane.

cyberpinoy, just stop.

Every time you rant and rave but don't answer the questions about your lying you just look like an idiot.

Nobody is perfect, but not everyone in this thread is running a website that requires an insane amount of trust. Bruno's past is his past, your past is your past.

Discrediting Bruno here won't do anything for you unless you can answer his questions while doing it, so why bother? how does it help your business if he's a liar? Does that change when you started mining? Does that change your ability to take the bitcoins from your customers and turn them into more bitcoins? Even if Bruno's credibility has nothing to do with yours and your website, so let it go.

the bottom for a coin is 0. Why on earth would you think that anything but that is the bottom? What is going to stop the other people who are staking the coin from selling them to cash out and further crash the price?

which group of crooks is running that?

And how are they convincing the marks that it will work better than the last one? Unless the point of the last one was to crash the price, because that's what Josh selling enough coins to buy shit on amazon for 3 people did, if that was the point it worked perfectly.

No, I think they're only giving away 2 at a time. I'm not sure who has all those keys until then, or what is happening to the controllers until then, or what anyone thinks that's a good idea, or why there are prime controllers at all.