LOL,  It wasn't me... It was someone else.

Here's something for a novice with electricity but it's 230V at 20 amps = 4,600 watts.  It lets them easily determine if the 2 outlets they chose were on the same circuit or not by pressing a button on the device for $275.00.  I believe this is designed to convert it to make it look like 2 phases.  Which means both 20 amp 120 volt circuits can be on the same pole but not the same breaker (circuit).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hmtxWyOzIk

http://www.steam-brite.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=electric+car+charger

It's hard to believe 35 PH/s can go this long without finding a block this often.  But it happens I suppose.  Variance is a MF.   

Don't forget.  You know we have 200 amps on each pole but how many volts is on each pole?  The answer:  120 Volts

If you have 200 amps at 120 volts on each side, that is 200 x 120 = 24,000 watts on each side.  However, we also have at least 3 major appliances taking up a large portion of the amps available and those 3 major appliances use both poles.  The appliances I'm referring to is the A/C, Dryer and stove top/oven.  Don't forget Dish Washer, refrigerator, etc...  If you have a toaster, it can use 800 watts easily while it is toasting.  That is something to consider if you are already close to maxing out your main panel.

That's what I've been trying to convey Wolfen, however technically its not combining the Amps.  Each leg has a capacity of 200A.
The Main will switch off if either LEG exceeds 200Amps is true - however if you load 160A on each leg you are not Exceeding the 200A per leg.

I'm using single pole breakers for the rigs - mostly consisting of 20A and 15A circuits - a couple of 30A circuits run to out buildings.  2 Pole breakers would be 240V no?
My service is rated 200 Amps according to electric provider.  The main appears to only be 180A on the panel, which seems right because if I load over 170A on one leg the panel gets very warm and will switch off after 30 minutes or so.
Load balancing the 2 legs/poles and I have zero issues running the 230+ Amps of rigs and other electronics.  It took a lot of trial and error as well as hand-charts to balance the load, but before I had s7's I had 25 s5's and 4 S4's along with the scrypt miners running all summer without issue.  Yes the main panel got warm in the summer and I put a fan on it to help cool it down, but circuits held and nothing burned up.
[/quote]

Will you take the time to show me what you did to balance?  Maybe I'm about to learn something.  Don't forget, you have 2 pole breakers for A/C, Dryer and stove top/oven.  Also circuits for fridge, lighting, etc...  Unless you did not use 2 pole for those appliances and used 2 single pole instead.  You can draw it on a piece of paper; take a photo of the paper and post the image here.  Maybe we all will learn something.

I think the important thing is this:

One (1) 20 amp 2 pole breaker has the same watts (power) as Two (2) 20 amp single pole breakers in watts (power).

One (1) 20 amp 2 pole breaker can pull a maximum of 20 amps ON BOTH SIDES.  This is like having two (2) 20 amp single pole breakers [One on each pole] pulling 20 amps on each pole.

A Main breaker is designed to trip if there is ever more than 200 AMPS / 24,000 WATTS draw ON EITHER SIDE.  When I said on both sides combined earlier, I meant to convey if we have more than 200 amps draw on either side, the 200 amp main breaker "should" trip.  Otherwise, THAT pole could get too hot and risk possible melt down of the pole and the breakers connected to it.

The drawing I'm including below was done in Microsoft Office Visio.  It depicts the guts of a 200 amp main breaker panel without including the neutral/ground bar(s). 

Notice how I have 5 x 20 AMP/120 VOLT (12,000 watts) single pole breakers on PHASE - A and 5 x 20 AMP/120 VOLT (12,000 watts) single pole breakers on PHASE - B.  This comes to a total of 24,000 watts for rigs.  Which, is no where near the 32,000 watts mentioned earlier.

Something else:  I'm not saying to max out each circuit.  Simply add another circuit to make up for the same total of 12,000 watts on each phase while collocated with the 75% limit for circuits inside walls and/or conduit.

Also, I have only shown double pole circuits for the large consumption appliances for the home, such as, Air Conditioning, dryer and stove top/oven.  I have not included a refrigerator, separate freezer [if you have one like myself], multiple televisions, lights, stereos, gaming stations, computers, exhaust and intake fans for getting out the heat from rigs, etc.  We have very easily maxed out this 200 amp breaker panel with what I have shown in the drawing without coming anywhere near the 32,000 watts of rigs mentioned earlier.  Plus, we don't have the other things necessary in the house like I mentioned.

A 200 amp main breaker is rated at what it says, "200 amps."  Meaning, if we ever have more than 200 amps on either phase, the main breaker will trip... period!!!  I was trying to think of a way multiple single pole 15 or 20 amp breakers could be installed to achieve 32,000 watts WHILE STILL PROVIDING SUFFICIENT POWER to all of the other circuits mentioned, such as a compressor and 1000 watt gaming machines, etc...  I just couldn't see a way to do it.

If I'm wrong, if someone would not mind taking the time to explain it to me, I would appreciate it.  Here is the drawing:

 

Isn't a 200 amp main at 240 volts? So it would be 400 amps at 120v?
Use both legs on each breaker 200 amps max
One leg on each breaker 400 amps max
Same power/wattage either way
[/quote]

I can agree with the 200 amps on each pole for a total of 400 amps combined.  However, the main breaker is designed to trip IF EITHER POLE exceeds 200 Amps; not both.

It wasn't...

It was a guy who rented 6 PH/s for a few hours and pointed them at Slush.

I'm beginning to wonder if you have a 300 or 400 amp breaker thrown in a main panel rated for 200 amps.  Also, when you say, "All on 120V," are you using 2 pole or single pole breakers for your rigs?

I had more equipment than you have at one time [A total of 44 rigs, consisting of 18 x S3's, 5 x S4's, 6 x S5's and 15 x SP20's].  Yet, I could not run all my rigs at the same time with the clothes dryer and stove/oven on at the same time.  I could only run one at a time (dryer or stove/oven).  Otherwise, the main breaker would trip.  And this was with all of my rigs on 240 Volts on a 200 amp main panel.  You are basically saying your 120 Volt provides more power than my 240 volts.

One or the other is going on:  Either you have a main service panel with a breaker much higher than 200 amps; you have a main breaker that is defective and absolutely will not trip; or you are lying.

Rut Ro...   

Thanks for the information, Sir.  Much appreciated!  Glad I updated to new firmware then.  Can keep fan on auto and not worry if internet goes out a while.  I normally don't do firmware updates but I think this one is worth it.

I did not mean for it to be taken that you can draw 340 amps ON BOTH LEGS SIMULTANEOUSLY.  Yes, there are 200 amps available on both legs.  Yes, one can draw 200 amps on one pole (leg) in the main panel depending on how many Ohms of resistance is in the load.  However, one cannot DRAW 200 amps of both legs simultaneously (400 Amps).  The 200 amp breaker would trip well before that would happen.

You said in a previous post:


This is not possible on a 200 amp main service panel with a 200 amp main breaker.  Yes, there is 200 amps "available" on each pole [That some call legs] but a 200 amp breaker would not allow more than 5% of 200 amps in most cases.  So, even though there is 400 amps total available on both poles combined, a 200 amp main breaker will not allow for more than a 200 amp load to flow.

Yes, I've said I'm an electrician.  However, I have also said I'm not a "certified" electrician.  I quit taking my night courses for master electrician just shy of taking the test to become a "journeyman" electrician.  I was an "apprentice" [Gaining experience] while taking night courses for almost 3 years.  In order for one to take the journeyman test and/or the master electrician test, they must have a certain number of hours (experience) in the field before being allowed.  I've said in many posts throughout bitcointalk.org that I'm not a "certified" master electrician.

I'm not here to argue, Sir.  I prefer to keep this civilized.  You said you are putting a load of 32,000 watts on your 200 amp panel with most of it on 120 Volts.  If we do the math, that is a conflicting statement to the statement you made earlier.  Which see:


You said you are pulling (drawing) OVER 200 A total.  If that's the case, you are pulling (drawing) more than 24,000 watts with all of it using 120 Volts.  So, "all using 120V?"  One statement says "most" of it on 120V and another saying, "all" of it on 120.  Which is it?

If you were pulling 32,000 watts with "all" on 120 Volts [32,000 watts divided by 120 volts = 266 amps] that would defy logic of having a 200 amp breaker.  If you insist on saying you're pulling more than 200 amps through a 200 amp breaker, be my guest.  I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.  However, if you believe the very link you said you went to, then listen to the last quote in that link if you don't want to listen to me:



You have too many conflicting statements, Sir.  It's so confusing that I don't know what you are trying to imply anymore.  It's just not possible to pull 32,000 watts at 120 volts (266 amps) through a 200 amp breaker UNLESS the breaker is defective.  

Hi d57heinz,

I just noticed your edit and I also read the link you provided.  What that electrical told the guy answering the question is correct.  One statement in that thread could have been taken the wrong way by a novice.  "VA" (Volt Amps) is not the same thing as Amps.  Transformers are rated in VA not A.

The very last statement on that page is correct in relation to a Main Service Panel inside a home or business.  The VA statement one guy made is more applicable to transformers than the Main Breaker inside of a Main Service Panels.  Hence, the last statement someone made in that thread to avoid confusion to the novice.

Kind regards,

When you say, "... I ran up to 170 amps on both legs (before the upgrade) I was pushing it to 210 but I put a fan on the main breaker." it's kind of confusing.

I can see pushing a 200 Amp Main Breaker on a Main Service Panel to 210 amps.  Especially, with a fan blowing on it.  The more amps flowing in the Main Breaker, the hotter the main breaker will get.  Mine would get very hot just before tripping this summer when figuring out how many rigs I could have running while the AC was running along with the dryer or stove/oven.  When I would try to flip it back on to get things running again, I would have to wait 3 to 5 minutes for the Main Breaker to cool down enough to actually flip back on.  It would keep tripping until it was cooled down enough.

Also, when breakers are rated, it's within a certain percentage.  Some manufacturers state their breakers are as stated +/- 2%.  Some say +/- as much as 5%.  10 Amps is 5% of the 200 Amp Main breaker you had.  So, yes, I can see pushing it to 210 Amps.  Especially, with a fan blowing on it to keep it cooler to avoid tripping sooner from the heat.

As for the "170 amps on both legs," are you referring to the two 120 Volt legs in a single 200 amp Main Service Panel?  If so, are you implying you were running 170 amps on each 120 Volt leg?  If that is the case, you're implying a total of 340 amps was flowing through the 200 amp main service breaker.  That's impossible in my opinion if that is what you are implying.  I can see 170 amps total on both legs "combined."  However, you said after that you pushed the main breaker to 210 amps with a fan blowing on it.  The statements were conflicting unless I'm misunderstanding.

I'm fully aware most panels in homes have more than 20 slots for the example I provided with 10 x 20 amp 2 pole breakers.  Also, most homes have more than 10 slots for the example I provided with 10 x 20 amp single pole breakers.  I only gave those two examples to show we can max out our Main Service Panel with 200 amps worth of circuits by using all 120 Volt circuits or all 240 Volt circuits and that the advantage of 240 Volt circuits is more POWER (watts) even though both voltages totaled up to the same 200 amps.  240 Volt circuits will provide double the wattage verses 120 Volt circuits.

I challenge anyone to find in the National Electrical Code (NEC) where the main service panel is to be reduced to only 75% of it's manufacturer's rating.  No one will find it.  My professor in class challenged us to find it in the code as our assignment over the weekend and nobody found it come Monday evening when we were back in class.  We were given that assignment after one of the students insisted the Main Service Panel is to be reduced to 70 to 80 percent of its rating like circuits inside walls and/or conduit.  It was easy to find that limitation set on each individual circuit inside walls and/or conduit in the NEC but that reduced limitation to 75% of the rating for Main Service Panels was not found in the NEC by any student for main service panels.  Our professor told us before we left class for the weekend we would not find it and he was right.

That 75% limitation put on circuits inside walls and/or conduit is understandable as a precaution.  However, it's not required to reduce the limits of a main service panel to only 75% of it's rating.  Someone even tried to use the argument to reduce the main panel to 75% of it's rating for a Main Service Panel inside of a wall made of wood with sheet rock.  However, the reduction to 75% was made for the WIRE and RECEPTACLES inside the walls and not for the breakers in the Main Service Panel.  He said, "The only occasion in which an electrician would consider telling the owner to limit their main service panel to 75% of it's rating is if the service cable INSIDE OF A WALL was rated for the same amps as the Main Breaker in the Main Service Panel.  That's why it's best to install a service cable INSIDE A WALL between the service meter and the main service panel at a higher rating than the Main service panel to avoid potential fire hazard while enabling the owner the ability to use the full rating of their main service panel.

For example:  If the service wire INSIDE A WALL between the service meter and the main service panel is rated for only 200 amps and connected to a 200 amp main breaker, the customer would need to be informed to only use 75% of their main service panel rating of 200 amps.  If the service cable INSIDE A WALL between the service meter and the main breaker was rated for 300 amps and connected to a 200 amp main breaker, there would be no fear of the service cable INSIDE THE WALL going to the main breaker over heating and creating a fire INSIDE THE WALL.

My main service panel is mounted on center blocks inside the garage and not mounted to a sheet rock wall on 2 x 4's.  Also, my service cable between the service meter and the main breaker is rated for 300 amps and it's NOT INSIDE A WALL.  It is mounted with clips on the center blocks up high going to the Main Service Panel.  It would have been fine to use a service cable rated for only 200 amps since it's not inside a wall.  However, the electricians who built my house chose to be on the side of caution.

Lacked a lot of details.  It's not quite that simple.  My home with a 200 amp service also has 8 gauge on a 50 amp circuit (The AC for summer time).  He said small, medium and large wire for 15 amp, 20 amp and 30 amp.  Why not say the gauge for the proper size breaker?  Doesn't mention anything about an inspector for home owners insurance purposes.  The list goes on and on.  Don't get me wrong, I like the video.  It's informative as far as "physical" installation.  However, it's not informative from a technical, safety and inspection standpoint.

Thanks for sharing.

I know from experience a 200 amp main service panel is not rated for 200 amps for each pole.  I purchased enough rigs to trip the main breaker at 200 amps on both poles combined.  I was an electrician for 3 years in commercial work for Marathon Electrical Contractors.  I was taking classes at night to get my masters certification but did not take it to completion.  I've tripped my main service panel several times over the summer trying to figure out how many rigs maximum I could run on my 200 amp main service panel.  All of my PDU's are "metered."  

Trust me... I don't "believe" the 200 amp main service panel is 200 amps on each leg.  I "know" It's NOT 200 amps on each leg.  I "know" from experience.

I'm not saying this with a "tone" to be argumentative.  I'm saying this in a manner to try to educate.  That's all...

A 200 Amp Main using 10 x 240 Volt / 20 Amp 2 pole breakers with maximum draw on each 2 pole breaker would pull 48,000 watts of power at 200A/240V.  Any more than this "should" trip the main breaker.

A 200 Amp Main using 10 x 120 Volt / 20 Amp single pole breakers with maximum draw on each single pole breaker would pull 24,000 watts of power at 200A/120V.  Any more than this "should" trip the main breaker.

Also know this:  Current (Amps) is not flowing in a circuit without a load on that circuit.  Meaning, current (amps) will not flow without an appliance, light, TV, etc... actually turned on and running.  So, just because you have breakers in your main service panel that probably total up to more than than what your main breaker states is because it's highly unlikely you have more than 50% of current draw on every circuit wired to the main service panel.

I'll post this to you as well.  It appears you may not have read it:

Say we had a 200 AMP Main Service Panel and every circuit was 240V circuits by using 2 pole breakers...  If every circuit was used at it's max [Not recommended if circuits are inside walls and/or conduit], you could have 10 x 20 amp / 240 Volt circuits [In the form of 2 pole breakers] for a total of 48,000 watts of power.

If we took out all of the 240 Volt 2 pole 20 amp breakers and installed 10 x 20 amp single pole breakers at 120 Volts for each circuit in the same 200 amp Main Service Panel and maxed out each circuit to its full 20 amps each [Not recommended if circuits are inside walls and/or conduit], you would only have 24,000 watts available in power.

So, both Main Service Panels were rated for 200 Amps maximum and 240 Volts maximum.  However, we can utilize the available power much better with 240 Volts instead of 120 Volts.  Does this make sense now?

notlist3d, is right...

It sounds like you need an electrician.  Trust me on what I'm saying about available watts regarding 240 Volt verses 120 Volt.  Your Main Service Panel is rated in Amps and Volts.  It's limited for 120V/240V [Either can be used] and it is more than likely limited to 200 amps REGARDLESS of what voltage (120V or 240V) for your circuits in the home.

Is your main service panel rated at 200 Amps?

Say we had a 200 AMP Main Service Panel and every circuit was 240V circuits by using 2 pole breakers...  If every circuit was used at it's max [Not recommended if circuits are inside walls and/or conduit], you could have 10 x 20 amp / 240 Volt circuits for a total of 48,000 watts of power.

If we used 10 x 20 amp / 120 Volt circuits in a 200 amp Main Service Panel and maxed out each circuit to its full 20 amps each [Not recommended if circuits are inside walls and/or conduit], you would only have 24,000 watts available in power.

So, both Main Service Panels were rated for 200 Amps maximum.  However, we can utilize the power much better with 240 Volts instead of 120 Volts.  Does this make sense now?

notlist3d, is right...

It sounds like you need an electrician.  Trust me on what I'm saying about available watts regarding 240 Volt verses 120 Volt.  Your Main Service Panel is rated in Amps and Volts.  It's limited for 120V/240V [Either can be used] and it is more than likely limited to 200 amps REGARDLESS of what voltage (120V or 240V) for your circuits in the home.

READ MY POST ABOVE...

HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE'S SAYING.