You are already a pathetic case because of your stupid-ass hate and trolling posts, so it is surprising that you have received any merit at all (just kidding, roachie-poachie, I know that there are nutjobs with similar thinking as you that participate on the forum that will merit your stupid-ass, butt-hate-hurt inspired posts   ); however, you are even a sadder case (if that is possible?) if you are getting all worked up in an emotional way with status measures of various forum personas based on forum rank or merit or any of those kinds of thingies...

Even in your delirium, you realize, I hope, that there remains a certain level of subjectiveness and discretion with the rewarding of merits that might end up capturing values in ways that are distinct from your own discretion (to the extent you have any discretion that is socially worthy   ).. and some folks, even yourself, receive merit for being "anti" - or being a troll or for being a Precious metals (PM) nutjob, which truly might not be merit-worthy in any kind of objective, societal or deservingness sense..   .

Wat?


Instead, listen to this seemingly emotional and unable to control resentfulness twat, aka Torque, right?

Seems dangerous to play around with margin... and there are a lot of ways that you could get locked out.. especially when bitcoin can be very unforgiving to shorters.

I personally think that the best way to attempt to accumulate more bitcoins when the price is going down is to sell small amounts of BTC as the price goes up and to used that generated money to buy back as the price goes down.  If you did not already sell some bitcoin when the price was higher a while back then it seems too late to sell at this point.  Therefore, your decision at this point would be to buy more bitcoin at various points on the way down, and then be prepared to sell small amounts at various points the next time the BTC price goes up (presuming that the price is going to go up sooner or later).  

Accordingly, it is o.k. to over-leverage a little bit on the buying of bitcoin on the way down in order that you will not feel so bad to sell some of that accumulated amounts off on the way up.  The tricky question is that the price points and the amounts for buying on the way down and selling on the way up are going to be different for each person and takes some practice to find comfortable price points and amounts that are customized to your own situation (your view points, risk tolerance, financial situation and timeline).



It is very likely that bitcoin is a paradigm changer, so it is not easy for us to envision the extent to which system are going to be changed by it or not.. .... so even though we might say that it is kind of like one thing or another - the telephone, internet.. blah blah blah.. there could also be a war over this bitcoin changing kind of influence, and I don't know how any of us could reasonably assert that a war is not changing any current systems that we have in place... so perhaps our views of the fundamental possibilities of bitcoin are quite different, and I don't claim to know exactly where bitcoin is going to take banking and government... and perhaps it will be a BIG NOTHING, as you seem to imply.




Well, maybe a lot of us have become spoiled from the returns of crypto, but I still think that if you are getting, on average, more than 6% per year appreciation on a long term investment, you are doing good... in that regard, bitcoin has been performing way beyond normal average investments.. and seems likely to continue to perform quite well, on average, if you have a 5-10 years timeline.

I have been thinking further about this, and sure, you are likely correct that smaller players will likely vote with their feet - however, bigger players might not.  Gemini had already chosen nearly fee free (or no fees) to move money from your bank to and from their service, and probably that choice has caused additional costs on Gemini - and therefore some of their users likely have been using Gemini to get in and out of bitcoin - however, surely their choice to 4x their fees on April 2, and they had 2x their fees 6 months earlier, which is more than 10x in their fees.  Gemini is going to measure to verify whether they are retaining enough of their BIGGER and likely desired users in order to off-set the smaller average Joes that they are losing by making their trading fees about 4x higher than other exchanges (their bet may pay off if there is not a lot of competition for BIGGER players to get in and out of the space, and some of the BIGGER players might prefer Gemini, even if Gemini's current liquidity does not seem to be as large as some of the other exchanges).

Gemini can still be good for USA customers to enter quickly in or out of dollars from your bank..... even though perhaps not regular trading.

Nah.. the question is not silly... you are just grasping at straws in your technical parsing about what has been discussed in terms of why Gemini is going to 1%.


Like I said, even though I am framing the question in terms of their viewpoint, I am also discussing the matter in terms of my own interests... hello?



Yeah, because you are technically parsing and losing the point.. and getting caught up in details to act like the subject matter does not matter.


It is part of the overall concept and attempts to figure out what is going on in the whole crypto space which affects individual decisions about which exchanges to use, how to use them and planning around those kinds of changes in the space.

By the way, I opened an account on Binance, and I moved some of my previous Gemini trading over to Binance.. They seem to have some technical interface issues,  currently.. so a bit buggy so far with my own individual usage compared with Gemini... but each platform has its pluses and minuses.


It is not telling because your nonsense on that point has been strongly played out at various points.. you are poo pooing the importance of my talk around Gemini, so seems to be a way for me to do a bit digging back at what you might prefer.. oh?  Bcash is not doing so well lately either, right?  It is still the future though right?       

O.k. sure.  None of us really know what is going to go on exactly; however, I consider myself similar to you in having had formed a tentative framework for what I believe is going to happen in terms of short term or long term, and surely I have difficulties attempting to predict on any kind of meaningful basis except having decent considerations that bitcoin is a good long term investment and it is good to accumulate bitcoin, and even if there is short term noise, the fundamentals of bitcoin continue to get stronger and stronger.


Yes, you seem to have been through quite a few volatile periods, and you seem more pessimistic than me about long term bitcoin fundamentals - even though you seem to have a decently long term following the space.  I gave you a merit for your explanation anyhow, in spite of your "lackings."... hahahahaha


Of course, this concept is fundamental to any volatile investment, but people still use it in differing ways.  I use it to consider that I am not leveraging or betting and that I have my living expenses covered for 6 months into the future with my cash flow, then any extra I can invest into bitcoin.  Over time, that can add up to a lot of money, especially once the bitcoin ends up appreciating 30x... So maybe starting off with a modest $10k ends up in the $300k territory... so motivations can change, even though the initial $10k did not seem to be very much the $300k gets into Lambo territory.. and some folks start to think,.... " I could have had a lambo for $10k?" when the price starts to go down, we can see where there can be emotions... and how much was initially invested can get lost in the shuffle.


Sounds like you are in a decent personal position, then.


I would be hard pressed to call price fluctuations in a correction bull traps.. even though technically you are correct.

You are also correct in the sense that it is going to take a lot of breaking through upwards resistance to get back to $19k price territories.


I learn about about myself and about my own stance by attempting to interact on ideas.. but sure, sometimes, just reading can be insightful, too.

Another update from what I did.

I spent a decent amount of time in the past 24 hours searching around about how to adjust my transition away from using Gemini, and in recent hours, I took fairly significant steps at transitioning my Gemini orders to Binance... ... so in that regard, I set up a new Binance account, and set up several BTC sell orders on Binance.. and therefore cancelled my sell orders on Gemini...

Let's see how it plays out

For now, I am keeping my Gemini buy orders open, since those buy orders were set at Gemini's pre-April 2 lower rates.  But once those buy orders fill (if they do), then I will not set up any new buy/sell orders on Gemini, unless it is based on decisions to cash out into my Bank, or something like that ... so I will cross that bridge if I get there and if that becomes something that changes with me.... for some unexpected reason(s)... so in essence, I am moving those particular Gemini orders from 1% trading fees to .05% trading fees on Binance.

I am getting the impression that you are very skeptical about BTC, and perhaps you are correct that bitcoin might be in a long level of flat and downward trends - but your assumption is no where near a given.  This is not 2014/2015, so price dynamics could play out differently.. on the other hand, 2019 is not necessarily a long time to wait for price action, and it is only 9 months away.

If you are sensing that you may not want to study into bitcoin or accumulate or anything like that in the coming year, then likely you already have a BTC stash that you feel is sufficient in the event that BTC prices go up from here - and sure it is possible that you have other things going on in your life that you feel deserve more of your attention, as compared with bitcoin.

Other folks may be more inclined, during this particular possible lull period to continue to spend decent resources accumulating bitcoin, in anticipation that a upwards price run is going to take place, even if the upwards price run is not imminent, it will pay off to continue to reasonable make continued accumulation efforts during this period.

If you have a lower price point in which you will buy in such as $5k or $3k or even $1.5k, you may or may not get such opportunity to buy in at that point, but it is good to personally have some outline regarding where you would consider to be good buying opportunities and also to be sufficiently content if the price does not go down to your buy target points.



In one sense, it would make sense a decent amount of sense if you don't feel very passionate about bitcoin or very strongly about wanting to accumulate bitcoin, then you may well not be very invested in the concept (but only luke warm about it), so in that regard, it would make sense that you would not even feel any kind of inclination to share your knowledge with others because you merely view bitcoin as blasé.... and something that may or may not happen or some thing that may or may not be important.. and that is your viewpoint, which likely differs from guys who actively participate in forums like this one, even during down price periods.  For different folks, there are different strokes.

A new name:  "Tera won't dis-a-pera"    

This is a discussion forum related to bitcoin/usd market matters, so I doubt that it hurts to bat around ideas related to liquidity of a particular exchange and why they are changing their trading fees, and not everyone is as smart as you about the inter-operations of businesses and the supposed validity and efficaciousness of such business decision making (which I would not describe as Monday morning quarterbacking, because they can do whatever the fuck they want, but what they do has effects on what each of us might decide to do in terms of our own trading strategies or however we use their exchange, if at all.. so your monday morning quarter backing analogy seems completely out of place when some of us are participating in the use of such services).  

So even if you assert that Gemini has good business reasons for what they are doing, it still remains a decent topic to discuss why they may be moving away from the common Joe or if that is their motivation.. You know what they say and their business objectives might not line up, either.  

Surely, I am frustrated by the significance of their fee increases because I already had systems set up to use their services; however, now I am incentivized to use their service a lot less because there seem to be a lot of decent services that charge lower fees, which I would prefer to do... Even you seem to be using GDAX, and that has 0% fees for makers, and you seem to be using that kind of incentive - and what if they raise their fees to 1%, you going to change your behavior and perhaps discuss the situation, no?  

... and, yeah, maybe Gemini is going to be able to maintain sufficient trade volume and liquidity to achieve their various unstated objectives - and you are correct that is a risk that they are likely in better position to assess rather than me (or any of us other outsider dweebs) - however, the fact that they made the increase in their trading fees does not mean that they are either correct in their assumptions and/or goals or that their change will achieve their goals (as you seem to imply that whatever the fuck they do, they are smart and they will be successful in reaching their unstated goals.. .. whatever, this is not exactly about them, when we are talking about ourselves and our decisions about whether to use their services and/or how to change our practices, if we choose to do so.  

It seems presumptuous as fuck for you and your whole tone to unnecessarily dismiss and attempt to negate any fruitfulness in batting around this topic.  

You would rather talk about how Bcash is going to be the next bitcoin, or that bcash is the real bitcoin, as if that were to be some kind of more fruit bearing topic?

What the fuck? 

Do you believe that you are adding value by trying to parse bullshit? 

Yeah, of course, you can cluster the whole of crypto-currency into one framework, and then try to act as if bitcoin is ONLY one small part of such framework, but then you are engaging in trolling, purposeful misleading, and talking the corporate mainstream media wishful talk with distractions. 

All of crypto is not some kind of greater concept than bitcoin, even though bitcoin happens to fit into such faulty frameworks...

Likely you are smart enough to know better, but you continuously bat around your creative and deceptive frameworks on a level of the lesser informed trolls... so yeah, I must applaud you for being more sophisticated than the average troll, but in the end you are similar to a Jorge Stolfi..... You, tera dee bearia, happen to assert BTC trading and profit principles, rather than Stolfi's stupid ass attempts at appearances of objectivity to act as if his failure and refusal to invest into bitcoin or any other crypto gave him superior levels of credibility..... and both you and him are full of shit, because both of you seemed intended to engage in spinning attempts to mislead.

Tera dee bearia:  "Bitcoin does not fit into the s-curve adoption graph of various technologies because it is not a technology...and other blah blah blah.."

I am like this, Tera dee bearia, and it hurts:




By the way, I understand that you fight with the whole concept of bitcoin adoption because you seem to constantly want to suggest that there is a considerable degree of bitcoin market saturation - which is also a flawed as fuck assumption when the most likely scenario remains that bitcoin is less than about .5% adoption... so you are floundering with your faulty premises that the bitcoin market is mature..

You are being a bit too smart-ass here.

Of course, they have a considerable goal that involves profit maximization, but how they achieve such goal - the means to the ends, is part of the question.

Do you really believe that if most other exchanges have fees below .25% then it is obvious that merely raising the fees to 1% is going to achieve their objectives?  If that were true, then a lot of other exchanges would have already gone down this supposedly obvious path.

There is a reason that coinbase keeps its maker trading fees at 0% and its taker trading fees at .25%.  Maybe in the future they will increase their fees, too - however, they have had 0% maker trading fees for several years.

So, you know as well as me, that you were not being genuine in your answer and you were not really grappling with the real question, right?

If you recall, Vitalik is repeating an earlier theme of his.. from May 2016 I believe.  Remember when Wright was claiming to be Satoshi, and Vitalik was one of the earliest of crypto persons to describe a fairly straight-forward process in which Wright could sign a transaction, and the fact that Wright was choosing a more convoluted method of proof had demonstrated, for Vitalik, that Wright was engaging in purposeful deception rather than really being Satoshi.  I think Vitalik said it at the conference in which the announcement had been made on the same day and Gavin Andressen had been attempting to validate Wright as Satoshi.

I doubt that it would be reasonable to conclude that low trade volume is triggering certain business decisions from Gemini that are likely to play out over several months rather than how trade volume might trend over a longer period of time (such as over a year or two) while being low one week and high the next week.

 Also, trade volume at any particular exchange as compared with other exchanges is one thing to assess and assessing overall trade volume is a compilation of the trade volume on all of the exchanges (close to 200 exchanges, now). 

Regarding specific motivations for Gemini's business decision to change its fees, business may attempt a variety of ways to distinguish themselves from others. ... So there could higher fees for one service and lower fees for another service, and Gemini offers some services that are not offered by other exchanges too, including the daily OTC auctions that are intended for BIGGER investors.

Anyhow, there could be an incentive to make transferring fees cheap and trading fees high, but they might end up off-setting each other, yet there is going to remain a variety of factors concerning how exchanges might attempt to distinguish themselves from other exchanges and attempt to remain profitable to the kind of customer(s) that they might be attempting to attract. 

It is also possible (but I doubt it) that Gemini tries out this particular new higher fee structure for a while, and they determine that they are losing too many average Joes in the process and losing some liquidity based on such losses of average Joes; however, if their higher fee structure attracts BIGGER institutions, then such newer BIGGER institutional volume could off-set their losses with average Joes, then they may decide that it is good to stay with the higher fees. 

Some of that information about how one change affects some other part of their business is just outside of our reach or our time/willingness to attempt to analyze, yet I still think that you are too much buying into a narrative about bitcoin's trade volume supposedly being down in some kind of meaningful way that would affect Gemini's current decision about fees, which I don't think is the case - because I believe that it would be erroneous to use a hype period from August 2017 to February 2018 (from $2,600 to $19,666) as the standard of measurement, as if that is regular amount of trade volume for comparison purposes.... So sure, there does seems to be a whole hell-of-a-lot less hype in current times in regard to bitcoin trade and bitcoin overall, especially compared with August 2017 to February 2018, but so what.. the August 2017 to February 2018 was surely a hype-period, rather than this period being a currently low period... In other words, I conclude that trade volume is not currently low, merely because it happens to have come down from our recent previous hype-period.

In this instance, it is probably better to link the actual video with the audio, because the guy is a fucking nutjob.. and bordering on desperate psychopath..    Likely Xhomerx10 has the original video/audio clip, but I am sure it is available .  

Edit 1:  O.k.  here is the tweet again.

https://twitter.com/bitcoinrick/status/981233235635195904


And here is the part where Roger says that more babies are dying because of the lack of economic freedom that core has caused.  you can fast-forward to 11:00 if you don't want to hear all of Rogers drivel; however, it may be good to hear a bit of the context from the cueing up at about minute 9:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWcJPSs9Yw&feature=youtu.be&t=8m59s

Edit 2:  Last of the V8s beat me to it... I am a slow poe...

I don't think that you should distort the truth of what he actually said, in this instance.

What he said is that "more babys are dying," and that is weird enough, so to change what he is saying into "sausages" actually trivializes the stupid thing that he already said.

The guy is a psycho, and his real words and the way that he said them are proof enough about his current nutjob status.

I am not sure about whether you are misreading my post.  Gemini has lower trade volume relative to other exchanges; however, their increasing their fees is likely to decrease their trade volume - however, those kinds of measurements would be for them to make about whether their trading volume decreases significantly in order to cause the increase in fees to be imprudent, from a business perspective. 

They are an exchange, so I am not sure about why they would take measures that might decrease their trading volume, unless they are gambling on the fact that more and more BIGGER investors are coming into the space (such as institutional investors), and they are trying to cater their platform towards the institutional investors rather than the regular Joe.. but even institutional investors like to see high volume which is likely going to come, in part, from regular Joes.

Regarding overall assessments of low trading volume, currently, I think that those kinds of assertions of low overall trade volume are a mythical, and I believe that we have not left BTC price battling, and this supposed consolidation game (in the below $10k arena) is not over yet... so even if there might be some recent drops in trade volume, I doubt that those recent drops are anything more than temporary - in the current bitcoin (and crypto) price dynamic climate.

There is a bit of a contradiction in the service that Gemini offers, because they are increasing their trading fees, but their fees for getting  in and out seem to be lower than the average (see these Gemini transfer fees)

High return could be considered to be more security and more volatility, but I don't think that purposefully creating higher volatility by removing liquidity is a way to increase user confidence in a platform. 

I have no real idea of their motivation at this point, except that they are attempting to go down the path of prestigious pricing, and that does not seem to be a good move based on their current market position based on current trade volume (but hey what do I know?  Administrators/owners there would know their trade numbers better than my looking at what I believe to be their relatively mediocre trade volume).   

Anyone concerned that Gemini seems to have raised their trading fees 4x in the past day on top of about a 2x increase from last year.  Seems to add up to about 10x increase in their fees.  Here is a thread that was started about the issue.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3248495.msg33826905#msg33826905

I am kind of wondering what Gemini's goal is?  It would seem that if they wanted to create more liquidity, then they would keep the fees lower, but perhaps they are attempting to become the Cadillac of exchanges, and I wonder if other exchanges will follow to raise their trading fees? or if Gemini will attempt to serve more of a niche clientelle who are willing to pay higher trading fees?