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1881  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 23, 2021, 01:46:44 AM
It's not only about capacity, but also about confirmation time. Bitcoin (on-chain) is not well-suited for buying coffee, regardless of block size. 10 minutes is far too long and feels like an eternity against a cup of espresso to go. There are no fees for HoDLing. I don't mind paying $10 to transfer the equivalent of 1 kg of gold from Europe to the USA, nor do I mind paying $10 to load my hot wallet with $1000 chunks for my monthly expenses. Extremely low fees could cause spam attacks, just like email is full of spam because it's free. Gotta pay to sleep with Carolina. There is no free lunch.

Bitcoin is fine as it is.

HoDLsleep. Gotta shut down those lasers. Dreaming of $60k when I wake up (OK, maybe $56k).

If I wanted gold, I'd load my pockets with gold. Yeah, I like my mad gainz too but I never lose sight of what made scramble and take mad risks to get hold of Bitcoin way back when and high fees weren't it.

Mark you, I'm in no way against fees completely. I'll even say that I don't know where they should be. I'm saying that they are not currently being set by free market forces.

Note that there are a number of measures that could improve block storage (some of them mentioned in the whitepaper) and reduce spam. Relying on an artificially low block size limit has meant that the incentive to solve these issues correctly has been blunted.
1882  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 23, 2021, 01:13:45 AM
There are a few possible objections to your legitimate (and probably informed) opinion that the fees are artificially high, apart from L2 - which I, differently from you, believe will solve or ease the issues.

A valid position and one I have held in the past (and had quite the discussion with Stolfi about at the time). However, it becomes ever more clear that Bitcoin is the way it is because it solves the problems that Bitcoin is designed to solve. Any second layer solution is not Bitcoin and will thus not solve the same problems. Hence the ever increasing complexity of LN and the ever extending time required. To be clear, I am not against LN and think it can be very useful in the problem domains it was originally envisioned to solve. However, it has had its scope increased as a way to put off increasing the blocksize which has done a disservice to not only those who had bold visions for Bitcoin but also the LN project itself.

- The actual block size has been made larger by the SegWit update. The bookkeeping has also changed to provide incentives towards certain types of transactions over others, and the new incentive system has deflected much public (uninformed) attention from the fact that there is more space in blocks today, not less.

The last block (at current time) was 1.16M with a rolling average looking more like 1.3. Disregarding the other arguments against segwit (and the fact that segwit transactions are, in fact, larger than legacy transactions, given that people are stuffing transactions into blocks as hard as they can right now with simple transaction fees in the 20-30 dollar range, that's paltry. Especially given it was clear we were soon to hit the block size limit regularly end 2015/beginning 2016.

- If the fees are artificially high now, why wouldn't they remain inflated after, say, a doubling of the size? The more the mining power gets centralized, the more room for abuse there is. A small size, at the very least, allows user nodes to check by themselves that there's no fuckery going on. Verify without trust.

Maybe. Less so. A simple doubling would have best been done in 2016 with a roadmap to other options down the line. LN should never have been something that everything was depending on. It wasn't fair to Bitcoin and it wasn't fair to the LN project.

When Satoshi added the block size limit, blocks were 1/100 of the size of that limit. That's huge headroom. The *natural* fee for a block would be the resource cost for validating and storing a transaction and the resources for hashing a block (which *does not* depend on block size) plus a small amount of profit multiplied over a number of miners. We're talking around 200 bytes. That's trivial and the block reward is still in play and arguably more valuable than ever. Meanwhile, improvements in technology have made this process ever cheaper. Fees should be marginal, Certainly nowhere near the 20-30 dollars currently required. This indicates an imbalance in incentives. This is why I say fees are artificially high. They are not what would be being set in a truly competitive free market.

With that said, it seems that a contentious fork has not provided an answer (for a variety of reasons) so I am curious to see how things play out.
1883  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 23, 2021, 12:26:40 AM
Quote
There are many much coin with big block, some are very nice and very work much wow, like super wide cool highway. Fees no artificial high there.

Indeed there are. That doesn't really impact the fact of the fees being artificially high.

A better argument is that the the 21 million coins limit is artificial too. Solid fact but that's part of the design where the link provided indicates that the block size limit was intended to only be temporary. Make of that what you will. It doesn't seem to have damaged Bitcoin so far but it has definitely limited use cases and cause disadoption in some cases.

I still think the way forward is through increased on-chain capacity. I'm deeply skeptical of second-layer solutions, particularly LN. In fact, if LN is actually a success in 18 months, I'll eat my (xhomerx10 provided) hat.
1884  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 22, 2021, 11:51:37 PM

Why do you say the fees are artificially high?


I know you're being cute but for the benefit of anyone not aware...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15366#msg15366
1885  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 22, 2021, 08:05:04 PM
And, of course, also, if you feel that you do not have enough, you can continue to DCA.. even if it is only $10 per week... though for fee purposes, it may be better to let your amount build up to something like $80 or $100 and then buy once you reach certain thresholds of value.

It that's the issue probably better to keep coins on the exchange until you have enough to make the (artificially high) fees worthwhile
1886  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 22, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Bitcoin is definitely dead this time.
It was fun whilst it lasted.
Shame.


Yup. Cashed out, bought a cardboard box to live in.
1887  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 20, 2021, 07:44:00 PM
As to above 'pundits' are out in force saying that BTC is going to crash and can't compete with the coming of national digital currencies.

The talk today and probably will continue by the 'talking heads' on T.V. is that Bitcoin will be 'replaced' by a central bank(s) digital currency....I've seen this often

Yes, makes no sense. What is there already makes sense for what the government(s) want to do with it. A few bits and pieces could be tidied up a bit but implementing something Bitcoin-like does nothing for them (and probably quite a lot against - losing a billion dollars on a pallet in Iraq is probably regarded as a feature).
1888  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 20, 2021, 03:05:22 PM
(Answer: It's money, I earned it, here is your share as is fair enforced through threat of violence)

ftfy.
1889  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 11:34:09 PM
The world could do with a few more chilled out dudes

Texas has entered the chat.

I guess no one liked my animation Sad
1890  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 09:34:53 PM
So... much... Bitcoin...

1891  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 06:27:16 PM


I just poked around in Mycelium and found I have $9k of p2pool dust. Should have left that miner switched on, I guess.
1892  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 05:22:58 PM
Hah. I don't care what you say, fees are so jacked up right now.
1893  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 04:53:28 PM
So now we're going to play tease with 55 for a while I guess.
1894  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 04:26:06 PM
Quite weak on the ledger aspect though.
1895  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
"I don't own Bitcoin. I'm not short Bitcoin," says @BillGates



Not short? Neutral view? Baby steps, I guess.... Roll Eyes

"Metcalfe's law means any holdings I had would only fall when I sterilize 80% of the earth's population".
1896  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 02:54:37 AM
Can recommend. Make sure you have it configured to run when the grid is out as your installer may not think that through.  

I recall some noise a while back about PV systems having to power down when the grid was down if they were connected to the grid. I don't recall if there was some kind of exception if you had the correct isolation or not though.

Edit: https://thirdsunsolar.com/residential/does-solar-work-in-a-blackout-third-sun-solar/
1897  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 19, 2021, 12:03:27 AM
It was one of many early innovations that was tried because we were all excited about making Bitcoin work. Back in the early days of bitcointalk there was so much activity around making Bitcoin awesome. Now it's just shilling. If you do a search for any useful information the search result is filled with 2011, 2012 posts.

There were certainly detractors but those were mainly based on the underlying economic principles of Bitcoin. Keynesians not liking deflationary currencies. They thought a currency should purposefully lose value over time. As a feature.

I did a quick search earlier and new quality ones were available for 1.02 BTC. Not enough to make me want to sell mine.
1898  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 18, 2021, 05:00:03 PM
That's what Ochs did with the Times and Franklin did with Poor Richards' Almanac: Provide consistent quality information that you pay a subscription for. Hearst knew the value of shock crap news, thus came the "penny papers" where you only paid a penny but each day the news had to sell itself to your tastes. Thus salacious crap (Remember the Maine!)

Unfortunately on the Internet the penny paper model won (ad based articles) so the ones that make money are not based on accuracy but on salaciousness. In that world yes you have to research every news item to death.

Personally I prefer to outsource that to a reputable company. Sometimes even those reputable sources can be corrupted by ad revenue and shock jock crap (hello Wall Street Journal, what the fuck happened). And here we are....

I believe the dependence on advertising also affected things. When you lean almost copletely on advertising, your numbers become important at all costs. I believe most papers only charge to prevent people from using them for fuel (obviously not an issue with internet-based platforms).
1899  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 18, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
Of course I understand that, it would just help in the meantime is all I mean. Layer 2 is coming and it is a good thing, but obviously still needs more time.

18 months?
1900  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 18, 2021, 03:16:06 PM
Why do you write dates "month/day/year", it's counterintuitive  Undecided
day/month/year is the way to go, from the smaller unit to the biggest  Cheesy

ISO 8601. The right format for the modern age.
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