Good to see some monero speculation here. Are there transactions that monero accepted already like bitcoin?
Saw this a few days ago. Seller offered a discount for Monero, but sold for USD via P@ypal in the end. http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/seiko-skx007-iconic-diver-classic-3953418.html"I have received queries about Monero. Here's a link to HOURS and HOURS of fun reading on the subject. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/ TL/DR? It's a peer to peer cryptocurrency. Think of it as a vastly superior Bitcoin 2.0, with enhanced security and privacy features. If you pay in Monero, it'll be fun! You'll learn a lot about the future of money. AND you will get get a substantial discount over the USD price of the watch. And I'll ship immediately. With paypal, you will have to wait until the payment clears. And pay a higher price. Which can be fun too. for me Edit: Sold, for 111 USD. Will continue to offer watches for Monero. It's the better way!" Maybe... it's happening? Well, I just checked and MoneroBay.com (as well as Cryptobay.com) have already been registered. But a (non-darkweb) Ebay type space accepting Monero would be rather good. I am gagging to use Monero to buy stuff. |
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The 920 floor is not a reality, but 900 is holding... for now.
I guess we can only wait and watch.
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I couldn't disagree more on this.
You are saying in indirect manner that everybody who needs Monero will found it.
You are forgetting that the most people are not like you - they are average Joe's watching TV, drinking diet coke and eating processed food and when they go to pick up the daily mail they take a car/rollator to do so. Still, they might have a need for Monero.
Those people are going to find Monero only when they hear it from the sources they are following. Despite the project might speak for itself, the problem is that people who need it cannot hear the speech.
There are different ways how to get publicity... One way is to pump the price and people start discussing about Monero everywhere and even mainsteam media starts to pay attention to it and the community will grow.
The second approach is the way the Dark coin community does: They have hired "shills" to make sure people speak about it.
Respectfully - paid shills is beneath Monero - so I disagree with this. And we don't 'pump' Monero, it responds to market sentiment and news. As for funding - whenever the devs have requested funding for development projects it has been funded pretty quickly by Monero supporters this far. I am sure specific marketing efforts will be similarly received and supported in future, too. We are not exactly struggling in terms of what the devs have done to develop Monero. Anyone who bought more than a few months ago has seen an appreciation in their net worth because of it. This cannot be said of most coins. And even the rise in BTC was not as good in 2016 as the rise in Monero. Let's count our blessings, eh? |
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actually it would be interesting to see a state actor implement a fractional reserve type coin
You can do fractional reserve with Bitcoin. You deposit 100 coins in the bank. The bank loans out 90 of your coins. Voila, fractional reserve. Of course - but with a visible blockchain - you can see where they are and they can't lend them out twice which is what they currently do. It's why they want their own blockchain, they can't get away with as much. EDIT: with fiat as it stands you put $100 in, they lend $3000 out. THAT is fractional reserve Each bank is required to have a certain reserve. I do believe it's commonly 10% of the deposit. The idea is that the person who borrowed those 90 coins can then deposit them at another bank. That bank can then loan out 90% of those 90 coins. This is how bank money is "created". Of course it's also destroyed once those loans are paid. This would also be entirely possible with Bitcoin. The reason fraction reserve is an issue in the existing banking system is due to how the bank tracks it's assets while engaging in fractional reserve and the ability to exchange those assets with the Fed for Fed money. It's been a while since I've read up on it so I can't provide every detail. Edit: As long as you don't have a Fed that acts as a lender of last resort, the system would be self-correcting in that Banks who can't manage their assets properly would end up going out of business, probably due to a bank run. Helicopter money, however, leads to extreme malinvestment and creates the large bubbles and crashes that we are all familiar with. The taxpayer is held accountable, while the bad actors get rich. It's often lower than 10% and in the UK before the financial crisis of 2007/8 it was as low as 3, or 4% But let's accept 10%. What that means is they have $100 in, then they can lend $1000 out - see what I mean? It's not 90% of the money - they take the $100 as the reserve and THAT becomes the 10%, so they can lend it out many times over. |
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actually it would be interesting to see a state actor implement a fractional reserve type coin
You can do fractional reserve with Bitcoin. You deposit 100 coins in the bank. The bank loans out 90 of your coins. Voila, fractional reserve. Of course - but with a visible blockchain - you can see where they are and they can't lend them out twice which is what they currently do. It's why they want their own blockchain, they can't get away with as much. EDIT: with fiat as it stands you put $100 in, they lend $3000 out. THAT is fractional reserve |
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The only advantage Dark coin has is its marketing which lacks completely from Monero.
Dark coin is pretty much everywhere - the only place Dark coin has not succeed to find its way is my dreams.
Monero needs adaption and adaption comes when more people are aware of it. Marketing is the tool to make people aware of the project. Vlogging on Monero like Amanda Johnson is doing with Dark coin will bring masses to Monero community.... Thanks to marketing Darkcoin is relatively stable and kind of rising pattern. Blackcoin on the other hand is not marketing (at least I am not aware of it) and look at where it is now?
The reason why Monero is not marketed is the fact that nobody has an incentive to do so, therefore nobody does it.
Better marketing would be good, but we get a lot of respect for NOT doing that sort of thing. When XMR gets news - and it DOES - it's not always us that have generated it, or broadcast it throughout cryptosopace with paid marketing. It's generally simply real news. We are still above Dash in market cap and I doubt the price relationship will stay as it stands for too long. Do we really want to be the 'Amanda Johnson' coin? How long do you think having her speak for them will still be looking cool? I do not know anyone who respects Monero of its main weakness (lack of marketing). Yes, Monero has been mentioned not only on crypto related media but also mainstream media. The importance of marketing comes to play an important role when it comes to communicating Monero to the new people in laymen's language. Despite Amanda Johnson is a vocal Dark coin person I am not sure if people consider Dark coin as "Amanda Johnson coin".. There are different type of adaption: 1) Speculation (short term buying and selling) 2) Bagholding (consider Monero as an asset and want to accumulate it as much as possible) 3) Transactional (buying illegal stuff mainly right now) When communicating, all these aspects should be taken account, they all have different mindset and thus the approach should be different. Let's approach the people from their own perspectives. Given we are all aware of inaugurations and the inspiring (or less than inspiring) things that have sprung from them, may I challenge you by adapting a line from one of them?: Ask not what your cryptocurrency can do for you, but what you can do for your cryptocurrency. |
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I do not know anyone who respects Monero of its main weakness (lack of marketing).
Yes, Monero has been mentioned not only on crypto related media but also mainstream media.
The importance of marketing comes to play an important role when it comes to communicating Monero to the new people in laymen's language. Despite Amanda Johnson is a vocal Dark coin person I am not sure if people consider Dark coin as "Amanda Johnson coin"..
There are different type of adaption:
1) Speculation (short term buying and selling)
2) Bagholding (consider Monero as an asset and want to accumulate it as much as possible)
3) Transactional (buying illegal stuff mainly right now)
When communicating, all these aspects should be taken account, they all have different mindset and thus the approach should be different. Let's approach the people from their own perspectives.
I think I know where you come from: I used to worry about Monero not having marketing early 2016 but then it got accepted by the DNM, price went up and slowly down (oasis exit scam, no GUI). I then got worried again that we should market Monero but then price gradually went up with the release GUI, kraken, bitfinex echange accepting Monero. What makes people want marketing is fear and uncertainty that prices will go way down but I am positive that how Monero is advancing right now is not the wrong path to go. What I want to say is that I used to believe that marketing was a must for Monero to spread but I am slowly believing it is not as it is a decentralized/open source project which is gradually developing. We still have more features to come and because it is an open source project, having suddenly many newcomers could do more harm than good to it. We should help fluffy with the adoption and awareness as best as we can and get people to be involved with it not as a buy-once-then-dump-and-not-get-involved-with-XMR-forever coin. I believe the way to go for Monero as a decentralized and open source project is to expand as the same rate it is developing. Deep down inside, we all know that Monero is great, different than Bitcoin and that it is not going to disappear suddenly. Chances of Monero being replaced by another cryptocurrency is very slim as they would have to have continuous development and most likely start from scratch like Monero if they wanted to replace it. +1 Nice, measured post. |
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The only advantage Dark coin has is its marketing which lacks completely from Monero.
Dark coin is pretty much everywhere - the only place Dark coin has not succeed to find its way is my dreams.
Monero needs adaption and adaption comes when more people are aware of it. Marketing is the tool to make people aware of the project. Vlogging on Monero like Amanda Johnson is doing with Dark coin will bring masses to Monero community.... Thanks to marketing Darkcoin is relatively stable and kind of rising pattern. Blackcoin on the other hand is not marketing (at least I am not aware of it) and look at where it is now?
The reason why Monero is not marketed is the fact that nobody has an incentive to do so, therefore nobody does it.
Better marketing would be good, but we get a lot of respect for NOT doing that sort of thing. When XMR gets news - and it DOES - it's not always us that have generated it, or broadcast it throughout cryptosopace with paid marketing. It's generally simply real news. We are still above Dash in market cap and I doubt the price relationship will stay as it stands for too long. Do we really want to be the 'Amanda Johnson' coin? How long do you think having her speak for them will still be looking cool? |
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i dont know why you guys so worried about other coin progress  i thought this is monero's thread ? so what if Dash reach monero's marketcap, what would you do ? cry some more... fud some more ? Because that's our competition as well, we should look to their performance and perhaps get something out of it.. Dash is a centralised, self-serving scam. It's just propped up by pretty good marketing and coordinated moves to further the interests of the Masternode cabal. It has no real quality, it is not competition. It's just not been unmasked yet. Dash is not the worry, it helps people who make proper research to realise just how good Monero actually is. The cream always rises. |
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I think maybe we can make a moneypot and start giving monero some extra publicity in chinese language/market as the Moneypot sites seems popular there. Investment shouldn't be expensive, and there is nothing much to lose doing that.
Agreed. The Monero community has been extremely supportive of efforts to raise money for development where clear targets that make sense have been floated. I also think getting the GUI to a less 'beta' looking version, working a bit more like Bitcoin Core (one click to open and no messing around with separate daemon / pointing at nodes) is a probably needed. It's still not 'foolproof' on all platforms. Adding multi language support to the GUI would then be far more worthwhile. To refer more directly to your suggestion: some marketing and informative support at a basic level in Asian (indeed in all major) languages does make sense anyway. I noted that even Dash does seem to do good business on the KL-based xBTCe site, so getting added there and on mainland Chinese exchanges is worth pursuing. This would be easier with some informative stuff in Far Eastern languages to justify a case for exchanges based in the region to add XMR. I would be happy to support these goals, as I am sure others would too. XMR is not Dash and that is to be commended in many respects, but if they are out there and we are not, we cannot complain that people do not realise Monero is a better option. |
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@LennyCarl - don't take any 'predictions' you see here as in any way accurate or reliable -- especially mine. I try my best looking at the chart and using the TA knowledge I've picked up over the last 4 years of doing this. But the landscape changes so quickly (the events coming out of China this last week or so is a good example) and crypto prices are hyper-sensitive to sentiment and/or news.
But be especially wary of those who use these tools and lay claim to expertise - they are really dangerous.
@Febo. No, I meant USD. Over the last month XMR smashed through its ATH (when valued against USD) but you'd hardly have noticed if you'd read these pages because it was masked by BTC rise. Instead we continue to judge alts value against BTC because of bizarre idealogical reasons based on predictions the global economy will collapse any day soon.
A bit like the bloke who wanders through the street claiming the end of the world is nigh, crypto is obsessed with financial Armageddon. I've been on these boards for four years now and the end of days is always being predicted (given traditional financial markets move in seven year cycles there's never a crisis too far away.)
And of course the ultimate contradiction is that BTC is constantly valued against the USD. Traditional currencies may well be used and abused but I don't see why they are a good enough benchmark for BTC but not for XMR.
It's probably simply because of Polo being where most XMR is traded. Polo is effectively an exchange where BTC is traded for alts and vice versa. Everything there is seen in the context of its price relative to BTC. Gains and losses are counted in BTC. Anyone holding XMR as a long term investment should of course be thinking of its ultimate fiat value, since if you want to cash in your investment's value to spend, you will be looking at its value in fiat. Of course the USD price matters and very few are watching it. The fact we went over the USD ATH and very few here even seemed to notice is proof of this and IMHO totally daft. |
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Don't worry - in the end the cream always rises....
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@OrangeP I just checked and you have a point, I stand corrected. But XMR is still roughly twice the market cap of Dash.
I am sure we will see some volume in China once they realise the superiority of the tech and the advantages.
Looks like we could do with a listing on xBTCe in Malaysia though! It's been a fair chunk of Dash's volume from time-to-time and it would do us good.
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MyMonero appears to be back up.
Let's see if the price follows....
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Fundamental
- Maybe some people know things we don't. Are there new and better competitors? Is there a flaw in Monero?
- Maybe it's just a lot of profit taking from daytraders and jumping onto new trends like Dash, which is more popular in China.
- Otherwise, all we can say is that the product Monero has improved during the last weeks. We now have a GUI and RingCT.
Verdict
So while I'm worried too, I can't find enough reasons to be pessimistic. I just traded BTC into XMR.
What happened yesterday was that there was lots of FUD on this forum and on Poloniex troll-box and Twitter about people cant reach their Monero in their MyMonero valet. Questioning if anyone actuality was able to get them thru GUI. That is why Monero lost almost 10% compared to Bitcoin. It was an opportunity that day traders grabbed to get some profit. I think MyMonero is still off, so there will be lots more chance for them to FUD more. Didn't know about that - any news as to why it's down? EDIT: Site says it's just an HF update. No reason to panic. |
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Feel
- I'm also worried. Why are we worried: Because we can't explain the movement.
- The only thing that stands out for Monero compared to other alts is that it has a very low adaption in China. This may explain the decoupled movement somehow.
Very few alts have 'large' adoption in China - they seem to like LTC - but in USD terms XMR's market cap is close to LTC and it's price is higher
Fundamental
- Maybe some people know things we don't. Are there new and better competitors? Is there a flaw in Monero?
- Maybe it's just a lot of profit taking from daytraders and jumping onto new trends like Dash, which is more popular in China.
- Otherwise, all we can say is that the product Monero has improved during the last weeks. We now have a GUI and RingCT.
Verdict
So while I'm worried too, I can't find enough reasons to be pessimistic. I just traded BTC into XMR.
I don't think worrying 'they know something we don't' is rational - this is crypto. Monero's rise has been incredible and at one point we had grown well over 2000% in one year. We spent a long time around 0.001 - now we are comfortably way above this. We cannot always go up, but the trend is totally positive. As for Dash - seriously? As we were added to Bitfinex, it was dropped. Given it's an HK registered exchange, don't you think they would have kept it on if there was any serious Chinese adoption? China will come, because privacy matters - for them and in India and..... XMR is damn good tech and is being added to new exchanges, gaining new features and becoming hugely respected. It's a top 5 coin and looking at the competition for places at the top I have to say I am not at all worried about its value as an investment. |
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The way Monero is behaving in the exchanges is showing bad signs. It looks like it has decoupled from bitcoin and if bitcoin starts moving and Monero price stays the same or go down against fiat that would mean a trend down is forthcoming. I am getting scared.
Why? This has happened over and over the past 3 years. Get used to it. Put on your seatbelt or panic sell and make me/us richer.  Edit - Sorry, but it's never been "coupled" with btc. it's moved the opposite more often than not. If you are in for the short term, you are bound to get #rekt, sorry. I would disagree with you. Over the last three years XMR has basically behaved like all the other alts and its value judged against BTC has moved appropriately as BTC's value has moved. When XMR has changed its own inherent value ie its value against USD, this has provided a different value against BTC. These sorts of relationships have become more tenuous since before the Christmas period and XMR seems to have become more reliant on sentiment (as pointed out by Kurious). Over the last week we have seen XMR value being hammered from all sides (see my post a couple of pages back) and not even responding to improved sentiment. What scares me is that no-one here seems to see the beating and are trotting out 'cultist' stuff about having blind faith -- the BTC wall observer thread has been doing this for years now, I thought we were better than that. Unsurprisingly I agree with this (thanks Nano). It is indeed the case that traditionally we have gone down when BTC went up and vice versa. However, we were coupled - almost nailed - to the BTC price in the last BTC spike., which meant (as we stuck around the 0.015 mark while BTC rose up) we hit a USD ATH for XMR. This was remarkable, it may have been the GUI release and yes, sentiment about XMR - but we were actually lifting in value along with BTC. Traditionally we should have gone down. Hard. Unfortunately, we stayed pegged on the way down, too and lost a similar amount of value to BTC in fiat terms, instead of spiking up as alts have often done as BTC drops sharply. We went up to the $17 USD mark and have come back down now to under $12 - which is a pretty large drop. Now we seem to be less fixed and rises in BTC have seen us go under 0.014, which we didn't drop under through the huge hike in BTC. During the hike, we were gaining so much value, we went over a $200 m market cap - which took into the top 3 or 4 temporarily. We looked like we were as good an investment as BTC. So we had a rise almost exactly mirroring BTC, but came down with it, too. In the past few days, the 'coupling' seems to have gone back to more 'normal' patterns. It's as yet unclear if BTC spikes again if we will follow, or drop. While the price has 'looked stable' - peak to trough has been a large value loss in fiat terms. Nano is right to say it's been a beating - but it might well have happened even if BTC had stayed flat because of the GUI, Ring CT and new exchanges being added anyway. It might also have settled back down. All is not doom and gloom though - XMR should plot its own course and I am sure it will. With all that is happening in BTC the waters are very choppy so dips and rises will happen, but the XMR price is still way above $10 and only two other coins on Polo (both of which are nowhere near the quality of XMR, or IMHO, its value) are currently higher in USD terms. I think we're fine and I have been buying the dips happily. Patience is a virtue and the crypto market is not ours to shape (yet), but we're in good shape all the same. |
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Watching Stamp to see if we have really turned.
The book is pretty thin - 1000 BTC either bought or sold will make a huge price difference, so Stamp (which looks a leader right now) is very vulnerable to whale whims...
Tread carefully. I am looking for a dip to blow the last of my fiat, I put half of what I sold at the high 900s back in at 798 yesterday and then it went below. Thankfully I am ok now - but I haven't got a clue if I will get one more dip or not for the other half. Let's see.
EDIT: Wishing everyone a filthy French Weekend of screen action.
A filthy French Weekend? You mean you wish us to all raise the white flag together Doesn't make much sense man A French Weekend is a weekend that is so delightful and memorable you don't want to shower it off.... |
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Watching Stamp to see if we have really turned.
The book is pretty thin - 1000 BTC either bought or sold will make a huge price difference, so Stamp (which looks a leader right now) is very vulnerable to whale whims...
Tread carefully. I am looking for a dip to blow the last of my fiat, I put half of what I sold at the high 900s back in at 798 yesterday and then it went below. Thankfully I am ok now - but I haven't got a clue if I will get one more dip or not for the other half. Let's see.
EDIT: Wishing everyone a filthy French Weekend of screen action.
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Thank heavens for the ignore button.
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