Agreed.

two 28nm miner companies, both announced in mass production:

JT miner (CN) http://www.jtminer.com/
bitcoinultra (UK) http://www.bitcoinultra.co.uk/

fortunately I never put my btc into mt gox, even though I do have an account with them.

"Suggesting the product might be slightly illegitimate for many questionable reasons brought up in this thread is not defamatory." strongly agreed. However what i mean is that if calling FBI and FBI do involved, I could image what will happened next.

You said what I would say, man. I did not pay attention to JianTian or JingTian, just know from the post here it is called JT miner.

and to Ronin1, thanks for you input. Guessing who is associate with who only make things complicated and misleading, on the contrary, if we focused on the facts instead of the promises from miner companies and opinion from individuals, we will see things clearer and simpler. My philosophy is just focusing on what's done and what's the fact, not what's is saying and who's saying. When I watching politician debates on TV, I feel amused most of the time as they bla bla bla against the obvious facts. When I read a post here, I try to ignore who posted and pay attention to what's is said and what's the fact, which makes me more objective and less emotional. This is free forum, we are trying to screen out the promising miner providers for us, nothing personal.

Klondike_bar, I do not agree with you. Asking for a clarification and Calling FBI are totally different issues. You cannot call FBI to involve until you have valid proof, or else you could be sued for defamation.  Both JT Miner and Bitmine seems use the same A1 chip from a Chinese suppliers and as I understand, Bitmine do not have the patent of the chip. And it seems that Bitmine does not deny it. This seems a fact.

I am tracking new generation of 20nm ASIC miners which is available for US miners currently, JT miners is one of them. Even though JT Miner is not in US market yet, they do have real miners running very stably and they has more than 1000 miners order which are waiting in line.  It is a promising supplier which our US consumers should expect. Therefore we should focus on the fact not the rumor or emotional assertion. We do not want a scam and at the same time we do encourage the good 28nm miner suppliers to join to compete so we have more choice, especially the promising miner suppliers.

xingqiaoyin, I think you missed the point of skyfromwell. If you call FBI without valid facts to support, it is very possible that you could be sued for defamation. Bitmine does not have the patent of A1, this seems to me is a fact.

You are mixing the customer service/warranty with legal argument on patent issues. Tow different things. Apple and Samsung have the issue with patents, does that prevent people to buy the products from Apple or Samsung? Apparently not. I have 2 ipads and 2 sasung notes (note2 phone and 10 inch note ) and to me both have very good customer services and warranties.

Good point. That is the reason that we should focused on not words but facts, especially the fact about which stages  (development, testing in development environment, testing in a production environment, and mass production) they are at. I am keeping track two companies which are hopeful to bring us 28nm miners: JT Miner and bitcoinultra, it seems to me that bitcoinultra still in development stage, while JT Miners already passed the testing in mining pool and in mass production stage. greaterninja said he is in process of reviewing the unit from JT Miner and let's wait and see.

Sounds like a common problem of new companies as things changed so fast that even for the internal guys does not get the first hand information at the same time. Not a big deal. The most important is the fact that you do have solid miners for us. Since greaterninja and other trusted forum members are in process of reviewing your units, I'd wait and see.

Sorry bclcjunkie, I missed your post. So just bring it up again. The following is a post from KyrosKrane which I think is great. We could open a new thread for fact-checking of new 28nm ASIC companies so that our miners will not get confused by promises/lies and missed the FACTs and got screwed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482921.msg5339564#msg5339564

KyrosKrane, I totally agree. Great point. Maybe we should start a new thread for fact-checking of new 28nm ASIC companies. It will be very helpful for miners to tell what's the promises/lies and what's the facts.

good point, KyrosKrane. We only focused on the fact not the bad mouth. I hope the miners companies could should more valid proof here, instead of only promises. I appreciate the fact that JT miner showing their real testing rigs running in a pool. I think this is valid proof that they have real rigs, and the stability and power consumption won't lie. We should encourage more companies to come out here doing the same things. I personally won't pay a penny until I saw the real running rigs showing me the promising results.

good question, bclcjunkie, same questions from me.

hi oswin,

Thanks for your input. However, it is really hard to understand your logic.

1) You said “them was totally scam they only use black arrow chip”, this is a serious allegation and you’d better have hard proofs. We certainly hate any scam as we are burnt before, but we do encourage the new companies which could provide real top line rigs to us.
As I know up to now, there are only 2 new 28nm ASIC rigs coming out soon, this is the one which has real miners running in a pool from the beginning of Feb and frankly you’ve to admit the results was very promising. Another one also boast to ship be the end of March, but does not have real rigs running yet, which means it’s still a toy in the lab and still a long way ( at least 1-2 weeks stability testing) to go from lab to mining pool.

2) You mentioned that “now the chips was lower price then they bought,them show me on mining result start from February, http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1swrtyBsp9odruX65upeyubAVSAyggh78,around 60T on mining” , so what’s wrong with that? Actually I just checked their web site, here is quote about their testing miners, which is more clear.

“ In fact, since launched in January, more than 50 sets of JT Miners have been running stably in mining pools for half month without any crashes or hardware problems. The real life performance has been excellent: with 1TH/s hash computing power under low-power mode (can be overclocked as high as 1.2 TH/S under better cooling condition), the power consumption is 640W (ASIC consumption) when being tested on wall socket at 923W (can be optimized at 750W-830W in the newer version). These figures suggest that JT Miner is the most powerful and one of the most energy efficient Bitcoin mining devices utilizing the smallest silicon die area in the market. ”[http://www.jtminer.com/jt-miner-goes-live-for-sale ]

3) You said  “if you buy with them,is not profit any more,they already get all the profit(coin） on 28nm before to your hand”. What’s your logic here? Are you suggest that we should not invested any 28nm rigs because JT Miners have good ones? And you can profit if you get 28nm rigs from other suppliers? And how could “they already get all the profit(coin） on 28nm?” By the way, from  their website, at this moment, this company JT Miner seems mainly open to high volume orders from professional pools, we, as individual miner, need to see if we are lucky to get one in time.

And finally, would you mind to preview what you are writing before posting it to the forum? This is a professional forum and please show your respect to the forum readers.

hi raskul,

thanks for your input, but how could we know the miner is fully tested? I still think the caution is necessary here.

My major concern is that bitcoinultra does not have the real running miners for stability testing. Another providers of 28nm miners I am keeping track of called Jingtian miners which have their first 70T testing miners running in eligius.st since Jan 30, and already have 231 bitcoins as I just checked a few minutes ago and running very stable. What I am really worried is that since bitcoinultra have miners ready to ship, but why don't they put some miners running in a pool to test how it works and at same time reap some bitcoins for themself. That's why I said be careful, a little fishy here!

From this point of view, "We will NOT accept any pre-order payments, until our mining rigs are in full production" is a bold and risk promise. If the miner is not fully tested in real mining pool, how could they put it in full production? I am waiting for hard proof and hope they do not ship "unstable babyjets" as you mentioned in your post.

It seems to me that bitcoinultra has no real miners running for stability testing at the present time, which means that their products are still in the lab. There are too much uncertainty between the lab and production. Stability testing could take much longer time than we thought. Stability is critical and time is vital in btc mining. If there is any delay, the buyer will be screwed up again. I would recommend cautions.

I was recommended by papamoi to this post from another post which is selling Jingtian 28nm 1T miner Jingtian https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.20  and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=466254.40

bitcoinultra, I am wondering if you have your 28nm miners running and if so how stable it is. I followed here and did not find this info I needed. From Jingtian 28nm miner post, they have a link showing their 60T miners running in a pool in last 2 weeks and the status shows very stable which convinced me.

How long do you think the diff will keep its current increment pace? How long do you think the bitcoin will stay in its current price level?

If you do not see the future value of bitcoin, bitcoin mining is always a game of losing money even when the bitcoin reach $10,000, because if you jumped in when it is at $10,000, the diff is not the current level, your calculation still show a loss. If you jumped in now, you will gain profit with the increasing of the bitcoin value in the near future. What if the bitcoin price goes up to $2000, $5000, $10000, $100,000? if you doubt it, check back how much the bitocoin price is 6 months ago, 12 months ago,24 months ago.

The point right now is to find a reliable miner as soon as possible, which is what I am looking for. My research show me that this is the first real 28nm 1T miner which is currently running in a mining pool and very stable from their running status shown in the past two weeks. It is claimed as 3rd generation of 28nm miners, and from the power consumption level (900W) and running stability of the first 60T miner, I think it is very promising. Until I see other companies could put their 28nm miners running and show me reliability, I would put my trust in this one.

If the miners can get US by the end of March, it will be a sweet deal for the price. Let's see when this company will setup their website for ordering from USA.

papamoi, thanks for your input, I checked it. It sounds to me a little fishy. I did not find their testing data which is very important. If they have product ready for orders, they should have the miners running for testing. Jingtian miners are running in a pool for about 2 weeks up to now and I found it's running very stable, very promising. Until I can see more, I would put my trust in Jingtian Miners, at lease you see something real there.

papamoi, Do you have the chip parameters from bitmine.ch? Is there any miner runnning their chips?

It seems to me that there are already 60T Jingtian miner running for testing and they are running very stable. They already have 1200T waiting in the line.

Time is everything here. It sounds a sweet deal to me if it can be shipped by the end of March.

It seems there is another post talking about this miner. Here is the link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=466254.0