750 GH/s - 3TH/s Miners from $3565 - www.bitcoinultra.co.uk

[ClessMeister]

No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Have a nice day.

[freebit13]

No you are not correct

Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Have a nice day.

I agree, that's how I know VAT to work... as a VAT registered company, you'll pay the VAT on the purchase and submit your VAT return at the end of the tax year to claim it back...

[Biffa]

No you are not correct

Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Have a nice day.

I agree, that's how I know VAT to work... as a VAT registered company, you'll pay the VAT on the purchase and submit your VAT return at the end of the tax year to claim it back...

Actually we have all been over this a million times.

He is talking about buying/selling from companies in other countries and EU VAT rules.

There is an option if a VAT registered company buys from another VAT registered company in a different EU country, if the buyer supplies their VAT number to the seller then the seller does not have to charge the VAT.

e.g. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm

Zero-rating goods sold within the EU

If you're sending goods to someone who is genuinely registered for VAT in the destination EU country, you can zero-rate the supply for VAT purposes, provided you meet all the conditions below.

To account for the VAT on zero-rated sales to another EU country, include the value of the goods and services in your VAT Return in Box 6 and Box 8 in the usual way. If any VAT is due in the destination country, then your customer pays it to the tax office in their country.

You can only zero-rate these supplies when all these conditions are met:

    the goods are sent out of the UK to somewhere in another EU country
    whoever you're sending them to is genuinely registered for VAT in another EU country
    you get their VAT registration number - including the two letter country code - and show it on your sales invoice
    you've got paperwork showing that the goods have gone out of the UK - 'evidence of removal'
    you dispatch the goods and get evidence of removal within a set time - which is normally three months

Evidence of removal will include a number of things like:

• customer orders
• correspondence with customers
• sales invoices
• packing lists
• invoices from hauliers
• bank statements
• consignment notes showing the goods have been received in another EU country

These documents must show details of:

• your business
• your customer
• the goods and their value
• the method of transport and route
• where the goods are going to

The description of the goods mustn't be vague.

If the evidence is unsatisfactory, then you may have to pay all the VAT. You must keep all the evidence for six years and show it to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) if they ask to see it.

If you can't get this evidence in time you must account for VAT on your return when the time limit has passed.

[CYPER]

No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Have a nice day.

Apparently you don't know how the law goes - VAT registered businesses in EU buying from other VAT registered businesses do not pay VAT at the point of purchase.

bitcoinultra, I assume the prices on your website would be VAT inclusive, right?

[Biffa]

No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Have a nice day.

Apparently you don't know how the law goes - VAT registered businesses in EU buying from other VAT registered businesses do not pay VAT at the point of purchase.

bitcoinultra, I assume the prices on your website would be VAT inclusive, right?

Yeah mate they said they were VAT inclusive, even though they are in $ instead of £

[ClessMeister]

No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Have a nice day.

Apparently you don't know how the law goes - VAT registered businesses in EU buying from other VAT registered businesses do not pay VAT at the point of purchase.

bitcoinultra, I assume the prices on your website would be VAT inclusive, right?

Yes company does not pay on the payout process but the VAT will be handled afterwards in any case.

Sorry for my articulation on the earlier message.

[ineedit]

Excellent, what is your VAT number?

I'll post it on Monday when I'm back in the office

It may have slipped your memory

And the VAT number is?

[kano]

... software ...

[Biffa]

... software ...

Often overlooked...

[Biffa]

Which existing ASIC chips are you using?

From your specs:

0.65 W/GH

We are using CoinCraft A1 chips from Bitmine

Could help from a software perspective?

[psycho-pass]

turbo mode??

[jayson001]

i already raised that in previous threads but got ignored... 

There are too much uncertainty between the lab and production. Stability testing could take much longer time than we thought. Stability is critical and time is vital in btc mining.

agreed, look at hashfast, customer pressure for timely shipping forced them to send out unstable babyjets in batch one, but that's a pre-order market. However, in this case, there is no caution required, as we won't be paying for anything until the units are stacked up in bitcoinultra warehouse, and will have been fully tested, and the building-order-shipping process totally assured.

hi raskul,

thanks for your input, but how could we know the miner is fully tested? I still think the caution is necessary here.

My major concern is that bitcoinultra does not have the real running miners for stability testing. Another providers of 28nm miners I am keeping track of called Jingtian miners which have their first 70T testing miners running in eligius.st since Jan 30, and already have 231 bitcoins as I just checked a few minutes ago and running very stable. What I am really worried is that since bitcoinultra have miners ready to ship, but why don't they put some miners running in a pool to test how it works and at same time reap some bitcoins for themself. That's why I said be careful, a little fishy here!

From this point of view, "We will NOT accept any pre-order payments, until our mining rigs are in full production" is a bold and risk promise. If the miner is not fully tested in real mining pool, how could they put it in full production? I am waiting for hard proof and hope they do not ship "unstable babyjets" as you mentioned in your post.

Sorry bclcjunkie, I missed your post. So just bring it up again. The following is a post from KyrosKrane which I think is great. We could open a new thread for fact-checking of new 28nm ASIC companies so that our miners will not get confused by promises/lies and missed the FACTs and got screwed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482921.msg5339564#msg5339564

Re: New price $6K for Jingtian 28nm 1T miner
February 24, 2014, 03:59:36 PM #32

People tend to distrust ANY new poster on these boards, whether they speak good or bad. It takes time to build trust. A history of meaningful contributions and good trading experiences makes one more trustworthy.

good point, KyrosKrane. We only focused on the fact not the bad mouth. I hope the miners companies could should more valid proof here, instead of only promises. I appreciate the fact that JT miner showing their real testing rigs running in a pool. I think this is valid proof that they have real rigs, and the stability and power consumption won't lie. We should encourage more companies to come out here doing the same things. I personally won't pay a penny until I saw the real running rigs showing me the promising results.

On this, I disagree.  A link to pool stats is meaningless.  They could have just about anything generating those terahashes on the back end.  Even worse, assuming they really are real and functioning miners, then the pool stats are proof that they're pre-mining with the machines until they're worthless, at which point they will deliver them.  Not encouraging.

Real proof would be a video of the mining rig running, hooked up to a PC (or whatever) and very clearly isolated from other machines. Real proof would be honest communication about what chips are powering the machine, how many per board, how to hook it up, what power requirements are, and so on, alongside the video.  Real proof would be sending the machines to a few different trusted board members (I'd suggest ckolivas, Kano, and Luke-jr as they're the primary developers of mining software, plus a couple of hero-level members with good trust levels and plenty of trade history) for them to run, evaluate, and post photos and videos.

This is a suspicious community, and with good reason -- there are plenty of new scams every day, and most of them start out a lot like this post does.  When proof of a working product is provided, the community almost literally throws money at these legit firms.  Sadly, the less experienced will also throw money at the scammers, resulting in many fleeced newbies. As a community, we're hard on unproven companies in part to protect the newbies, and in part to protect ourselves.  But prove yourself to be a valuable contributor, and you will be welcomed with oodles of cash and coin.

[Mein Coin LLC]

So... how is production going?

[QuantumMiner]

No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

that's true, if all business is done within EU and both parties have EU VAT ID, then the seller does not charge tax on the invoice and adds something like "it is the buyer's responsibility to pay VAT according to the tax laws in the buyer's country"

On the buyer's side, the buyer needs to pay additional VAT in their home country just as if they got the product locally.

and yes, the VAT ID is important because if you don't get that on the EU invoice you can't actually use it for anything other than just a proof of purchase.

[raskul]

So... how is production going?

here is the normal script at around this time of production for most miner manufacturers;

"Oh shit, we have hit a glitch, but we are on track to deliver"

^^ the customary answer to your question 

[jayson001]

So... how is production going?

here is the normal script at around this time of production for most miner manufacturers;

"Oh shit, we have hit a glitch, but we are on track to deliver"

^^ the customary answer to your question 

Good point. That is the reason that we should focused on not words but facts, especially the fact about which stages  (development, testing in development environment, testing in a production environment, and mass production) they are at. I am keeping track two companies which are hopeful to bring us 28nm miners: JT Miner and bitcoinultra, it seems to me that bitcoinultra still in development stage, while JT Miners already passed the testing in mining pool and in mass production stage. greaterninja said he is in process of reviewing the unit from JT Miner and let's wait and see.

[joshua3m]

it's no point having conversation about VAT if you can't get even break even with the fastest miner.

http://thegenesisblock.com/mining/a/52577af13a

[raskul]

it's no point having conversation about VAT if you can't get even break even with the fastest miner.

http://thegenesisblock.com/mining/a/52577af13a

  on the contrary - the vat refund may just edge you to break even!!!

[wowowas]

28NM is not erady for 3T miner man....

[raskul]

28NM is not erady for 3T miner man....

you clearly know absolutely nothing regarding electronics power consumption. Please explain in what capacity it is 'not ready'?