28nm ** 1T ** 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!!

[klondike_bar]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation.

so if I understand - a forum member wants to get it clarified whether your product may be stolen physical/intellectual property, and you start throwing around words like libel, defamation, and threaten to sue?

I am walking away from this now - my trust in your product just went down dramatically.

this is too reminiscent of BFL_Josh...

[JointDoctor]

I think everybody should calm down a notch  
The A1 drama here on Bitcointalk need to stop, it´s not productive anywhere.

From Innosilicons website:

Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production
Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field.

No patent, no copyright.
Simple as that.

On the unit i have it looks linked to Innosilicon.

Footer on the index page is "<div id="footer">Copyright www.innosilicon.com.cn</div>"

Although that is a second index page that isn't displayed when connecting to the web admin. More delving to do.

Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks.

Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260

---------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official  
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.

JT, it seems like a Chinese manufacturer has ripped off your designs and is selling them as their own. Wait.. where have I seen that before  

Libel? It sounds like you have a statement from Innosillicon contradicting bitmine's claims. Please do share.

What is actually Innosilicon's current position on this matter is this, and I quote from their web :
"Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production
Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field."

This might mean, that :

a) Bitmine.ch has patented (patent pending), their HPP proces (sublicenced from GF and forked), based on their Bitcoin Mining IP core
b) Innosilicon has given permission to Bitmine.ch to use their ultra-low-power Hash IP core for 28 nm DIE for chips produced by Innosilicon for Bitmine, and probably given only to Bitmine and nobody else.
c) Who did customized VLSI computational Marco cell (power train in 28 nm) - Synapse, Verisilicon, Innosilicon, Bitmine or GlobalFoundries is not known to me at this point. Also not known if this customized VLSI method is patented by someone.

Even though somebody could obtain licence from Innosilicon for power layer, other layers are still not Innosilicon property, so without Bitmine's sublicence on final design, full tapeout of cloned chips is not [legally] possible.

It has nothing to do with BRANDNAME - "COINCRAFT A1" as s BRAND, but with TOPOGRAPHIC DESIGN OF INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, which is SEPARATE LEVEL OF INTELECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTION FROM BRAND(NAME) PROTECTION, patent pending according to Madrid Convention of the World Intelectual property organisation. Patents are accesible from WIPO portal, and they are many, and non of which are the property JingTian.

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

´murrica  
You guys are hilarious.

Bitmine don´t have a patent on the A1 chip, do you understand that?

[Burninj]

Buy Bitmain

[jayson001]

Wow way to go...
A seller who wants to sue before doing even a single transaction.
I would be nervous to buy anything from jingtian not only more expensive than competitor he may even sue you if the miner got defective and your asking for warranty claiming i am libel LOL.
Epic failll..

xingqiaoyin, I think you missed the point of skyfromwell. If you call FBI without valid facts to support, it is very possible that you could be sued for defamation. Bitmine does not have the patent of A1, this seems to me is a fact.

You are mixing the customer service/warranty with legal argument on patent issues. Tow different things. Apple and Samsung have the issue with patents, does that prevent people to buy the products from Apple or Samsung? Apparently not. I have 2 ipads and 2 sasung notes (note2 phone and 10 inch note ) and to me both have very good customer services and warranties.

[jayson001]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation.

so if I understand - a forum member wants to get it clarified whether your product may be stolen physical/intellectual property, and you start throwing around words like libel, defamation, and threaten to sue?

I am walking away from this now - my trust in your product just went down dramatically.

this is too reminiscent of BFL_Josh...

Klondike_bar, I do not agree with you. Asking for a clarification and Calling FBI are totally different issues. You cannot call FBI to involve until you have valid proof, or else you could be sued for defamation.  Both JT Miner and Bitmine seems use the same A1 chip from a Chinese suppliers and as I understand, Bitmine do not have the patent of the chip. And it seems that Bitmine does not deny it. This seems a fact.

I am tracking new generation of 20nm ASIC miners which is available for US miners currently, JT miners is one of them. Even though JT Miner is not in US market yet, they do have real miners running very stably and they has more than 1000 miners order which are waiting in line.  It is a promising supplier which our US consumers should expect. Therefore we should focus on the fact not the rumor or emotional assertion. We do not want a scam and at the same time we do encourage the good 28nm miner suppliers to join to compete so we have more choice, especially the promising miner suppliers.

[QuestionTime]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation.

so if I understand - a forum member wants to get it clarified whether your product may be stolen physical/intellectual property, and you start throwing around words like libel, defamation, and threaten to sue?

I am walking away from this now - my trust in your product just went down dramatically.

this is too reminiscent of BFL_Josh...

Klondike_bar, I do not agree with you. Asking for a clarification and Calling FBI are totally different issues. You cannot call FBI to involve until you have valid proof, or else you could be sued for defamation.  Both JT Miner and Bitmine seems use the same A1 chip from a Chinese suppliers and as I understand, Bitmine do not have the patent of the chip. And it seems that Bitmine does not deny it. This seems a fact.

I am tracking new generation of 20nm ASIC miners which is available for US miners currently, JT miners is one of them. Even though JT Miner is not in US market yet, they do have real miners running very stably and they has more than 1000 miners order which are waiting in line.  It is a promising supplier which our US consumers should expect. Therefore we should focus on the fact not the rumor or emotional assertion. We do not want a scam and at the same time we do encourage the good 28nm miner suppliers to join to compete so we have more choice, especially the promising miner suppliers.

That's the problem jayson, you do not understand.

[klondike_bar]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation.

so if I understand - a forum member wants to get it clarified whether your product may be stolen physical/intellectual property, and you start throwing around words like libel, defamation, and threaten to sue?

I am walking away from this now - my trust in your product just went down dramatically.

this is too reminiscent of BFL_Josh...

Klondike_bar, I do not agree with you. Asking for a clarification and Calling FBI are totally different issues. You cannot call FBI to involve until you have valid proof, or else you could be sued for defamation.  Both JT Miner and Bitmine seems use the same A1 chip from a Chinese suppliers and as I understand, Bitmine do not have the patent of the chip. And it seems that Bitmine does not deny it. This seems a fact.

I am tracking new generation of 20nm ASIC miners which is available for US miners currently, JT miners is one of them. Even though JT Miner is not in US market yet, they do have real miners running very stably and they has more than 1000 miners order which are waiting in line.  It is a promising supplier which our US consumers should expect. Therefore we should focus on the fact not the rumor or emotional assertion. We do not want a scam and at the same time we do encourage the good 28nm miner suppliers to join to compete so we have more choice, especially the promising miner suppliers.

what on earth are you talking about? You use the word defamation like you know what it means, but I really don't think you actually understand the legal definition. Suggesting the product might be slightly illegitimate for many questionable reasons brought up in this thread is not defamatory. It is very different from something like saying you had a unit in your hands and making false claims about it when that isnt true.

[skyfromwell]

If Bitmine spend more times on research and development instead of making false claim, maybe their systems can come out a little bit early.

Without my help to show them using MCU on their system, I guess they probably will never deliver a damn thing.

People just need to show a little bit appreciation on people help them.

[skyfromwell]

For whoever interested:

Here is my board.

http://s161.photobucket.com/user/skyfromwell/media/skywellboard_zpsee2a6560.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

If you look on the Left top, there will show you a label saying:

Skywell & Innosilicon

So Skywell is JianTian in English that is my company.

Everyone knows who Innosilicon is now.

So if Bitmine plays this dirty game, then pulls Innosilicon into it. Let's see if you can see one more A1 chip in the future.

[seeksilence]

JingTian board
The board says that it is produced by Skywell & Innosilicon

For whoever interested:

Here is my board.

http://s161.photobucket.com/user/skyfromwell/media/skywellboard_zpsee2a6560.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

If you look on the Left top, there will show you a label saying:

Skywell & Innosilicon

So Skywell is JianTian in English that is my company.

Everyone knows who Innosilicon is now.

So if Bitmine plays this dirty game, then pulls Innosilicon into it. Let's see if you can see one more A1 chip in the future.

[Ronin1]

Skyfromwell wrote " So Skywell is JianTian in English that is my company"
The thread is titled "JingTian"...
Just to clarify; Is it JianTian or is it JingTian?  Wanting to make sure I am referencing the right entity when I pose my question below.
Guessing that it was just typoed in the post or the title....

And now to my question:
Are JointDoctor and jayson001 affiliated in any way with JianTian/JingTian)?

[Ronin1]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation.

so if I understand - a forum member wants to get it clarified whether your product may be stolen physical/intellectual property, and you start throwing around words like libel, defamation, and threaten to sue?

I am walking away from this now - my trust in your product just went down dramatically.

this is too reminiscent of BFL_Josh...

+1

[JointDoctor]

Skyfromwell wrote " So Skywell is JianTian in English that is my company"
The thread is titled "JingTian"...
Just to clarify; Is it JianTian or is it JingTian?  Wanting to make sure I am referencing the right entity when I pose my question below.
Guessing that it was just typoed in the post or the title....

And now to my question:
Are JointDoctor and jayson001 affiliated in any way with JianTian/JingTian)?

Nope, i´m just a prospective buyer.  

[jayson001]

Skyfromwell wrote " So Skywell is JianTian in English that is my company"
The thread is titled "JingTian"...
Just to clarify; Is it JianTian or is it JingTian?  Wanting to make sure I am referencing the right entity when I pose my question below.
Guessing that it was just typoed in the post or the title....

And now to my question:
Are JointDoctor and jayson001 affiliated in any way with JianTian/JingTian)?

Nope, i´m just a prospective buyer.  

You said what I would say, man. I did not pay attention to JianTian or JingTian, just know from the post here it is called JT miner.

and to Ronin1, thanks for you input. Guessing who is associate with who only make things complicated and misleading, on the contrary, if we focused on the facts instead of the promises from miner companies and opinion from individuals, we will see things clearer and simpler. My philosophy is just focusing on what's done and what's the fact, not what's is saying and who's saying. When I watching politician debates on TV, I feel amused most of the time as they bla bla bla against the obvious facts. When I read a post here, I try to ignore who posted and pay attention to what's is said and what's the fact, which makes me more objective and less emotional. This is free forum, we are trying to screen out the promising miner providers for us, nothing personal.

[jayson001]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Just becareful. We may sue you for defarmation.

so if I understand - a forum member wants to get it clarified whether your product may be stolen physical/intellectual property, and you start throwing around words like libel, defamation, and threaten to sue?

I am walking away from this now - my trust in your product just went down dramatically.

this is too reminiscent of BFL_Josh...

Klondike_bar, I do not agree with you. Asking for a clarification and Calling FBI are totally different issues. You cannot call FBI to involve until you have valid proof, or else you could be sued for defamation.  Both JT Miner and Bitmine seems use the same A1 chip from a Chinese suppliers and as I understand, Bitmine do not have the patent of the chip. And it seems that Bitmine does not deny it. This seems a fact.

I am tracking new generation of 20nm ASIC miners which is available for US miners currently, JT miners is one of them. Even though JT Miner is not in US market yet, they do have real miners running very stably and they has more than 1000 miners order which are waiting in line.  It is a promising supplier which our US consumers should expect. Therefore we should focus on the fact not the rumor or emotional assertion. We do not want a scam and at the same time we do encourage the good 28nm miner suppliers to join to compete so we have more choice, especially the promising miner suppliers.

what on earth are you talking about? You use the word defamation like you know what it means, but I really don't think you actually understand the legal definition. Suggesting the product might be slightly illegitimate for many questionable reasons brought up in this thread is not defamatory. It is very different from something like saying you had a unit in your hands and making false claims about it when that isnt true.

"Suggesting the product might be slightly illegitimate for many questionable reasons brought up in this thread is not defamatory." strongly agreed. However what i mean is that if calling FBI and FBI do involved, I could image what will happened next.

[culexevilman]

dump the drama and get 1T miners from me instead.

[Aexcu]

I've also referred this and similar threads regarding the importation and possession of these Chinese A1 miners to the FBI for potential North American customers for further legal clarification.

Ignore this crappy troll. Someone must be very afraid of not getting their own business out in time, to me this looks like systematic defamation of a Chinese producer. While I absolutely love American and especially German products for their engineering, I dislike dirty tactics when I see such.

It's clear from the press releases that Innosilicon have licensed this technology to Bitmine. Case closed unless you can give factual proof and so far you have not been able to provide anything.

[seeksilence]

Let's dig a little more in the design of bitmine board.

If Bitmine spend more times on research and development instead of making false claim, maybe their systems can come out a little bit early.

Without my help to show them using MCU on their system, I guess they probably will never deliver a damn thing.

People just need to show a little bit appreciation on people help them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg4617214#msg4617214
This thread from bitmine is locked for late delivery...

Re: Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread
January 20, 2014, 10:43:50 AM

Latest updates about the CoinCraft development:

Dear all,

These weeks were even crazier than the past ones. In just 3 weeks we did 3 revisions of the desk's hashing unit in order to achieve the expected performances, you can check the below pictures to see the work that was done on the various revisions. Everybody in the EE industry knows how long it takes to manufacture 4 layers board prototype, have them assembled and do research and measures on each board revision to find issues, we were able to do this only thanks to the efforts of our engineering team that worked overnight and during weekends.

What happened is that we had a condition where the single chips (or a pair of them) were working without problems at the expected performances, but when put on longer chains, performances were not stable for longer times. At a first revision of the board, we identified an issue with the reference clock, the oscillator wasn't powerful enough to drive all the 8 chips' reference clock inputs, so we had to add a clock divider. Plus, we had the need to drive an external reset, so we added that too.

On the second revision on the board, the clock divider was fixed but the next issues popped up with the decoupling of the power supply. Additionally, we removed the resistor dividers for the SPI signals and added level shifters.

On the third board yet another issue appeared due to parasitic interferences created by the high switching currents of the DCDC, this time requiring a more radical re-routing of the board layout. A team of 5 engineers worked on it these last days and we're awaiting the final revision for mid this week, where we don't expect to have additional issues anymore. Assuming that everything will be fine, production will be able to start during next week.

We are really trying to squeeze out every possible minute of delay but some things like the production of a 4 layers board cannot be accelerated that much due to physical constraints.

As soon as there will be more news I'll let you all know.

Thank you for your patience,

Giorgio

You see, those three versions are failed with bad design. BTW, what is the yellow tag in the third version? We suggested bitmine to use ST MCU. In around Feb 12, they made the fourth version(?) and the board seems working.  

Here is the picture for their old design and new design for Feb 12 version:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg5108467#msg5108467

coincraft desk
old right. new left  
difference position of the chips


Please pay attention to the position where the yellow tag lies in third version for the difference.

Without our help, bitmine could still burn their chips and could NOT deliver a single unit. Someone just does not know how to appreciate the help from others and even possibly play the dirty game.
 
Simple answer to the question "Does Innosilicon have right to sell the chips or not?" will resolve the double. You can just message Giorgio from bitmine or open a new thread to ask Giorgio to get the answer. If there is a dispute, then it is between bitmine and Innosilicon. We made the clarification several times but seems someone is feared to let others know the truth and still dump false information and accusation. Someone just intentionally ignores the fact and do his paid(?) badmouth.

[Syke]

Simple answer to the question "Does Innosilicon have right to sell the chips or not?" will resolve the double.

So you purchased/licensed your chips from Innosilicon? Can you post a picture of the bare chips you use?

[seeksilence]

Simple answer to the question "Does Innosilicon have right to sell the chips or not?" will resolve the double.

So you purchased/licensed your chips from Innosilicon? Can you post a picture of the bare chips you use?

Yes, we get the chips from Innosilicon.