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Everyone, thank you so much for participating! Really makes me happy to see the piglet get around  Just wanted to note that you don't necessarily have to send it via mail, if you know someone who is interested and is willing to look for the next person, you can hand it to them personally. Just make sure they are able to share it online. You can always contact me if you need assistance. Whoever wants to write about it or share it otherwise, feel free to send me a pm if you have further questions. Of course, anyone is invited to donate even if you can't participate (thanks buwaytress!) Lets see where this goes  |
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A little update for everybody following here: We've started a Kickstarter Campaign for this project: Click hereIn order to get the DigiPiglet in to more hands while doing something good, we've started "The DigiPiglet Journey" (bitcointalk thread)Still got some more ideas I want to try. Open to hear about yours as well! I appreciate everyones help so far, you've been amazing!  |
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Hello everyone inspired by the Lightning Network Trust Chain, I came up with the idea to do the same with physical Bitcoin, in order to promote the Kickstarter campaign for DigiPiglets. I talked to and met with eternalgloom, as he was happy to participate and give some advice. Key Facts: 1. Like a collection basket, the DigiPiglet gets handed from person to person (100 people in total), each putting in at least 5€ ($5,50) in Bitcoin on the DigiPiglet Public Bitcoin Address. 2. The person holding the piglet decides who the next trustworthy recipient is. 3. The 99th recipient sends it back to me. 4. I unload the balance and send the money to a Venezuelan Charity Organization (sending it physically would be too risky). 5. If the Kickstarter campaign for DigiPiglets gets funded, each participant receives a free DigiPiglet. Just link us on any mayor social media site or here on bitcointalk (We're on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Steemit) The piglet is hollow, the only copy of the private key is inside the piglet. To reach it, you'd have to cut it open DigiPiglet's first recipientThe goal is to do some good for the Venezuelan people, bring Bitcoin back to the minds of people and get some attention to the Kickstarter campaign. The DigiPiglet is one of two prototypes that we've created for this idea. It's made of a squishy material, fun to play around with and serves as a simple piggy bank for Bitcoin. Thanks to eternalgloom for being the first to receive the DigiPiglet on its journeyWhat do you guys think? Anybody interested in participating? DigiPiglets Journey on DigiPiglets.com Other threads: Project Development, CollectiblesCheers! |
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Can't thank you enough for the support  I'll try to come up with something to give this a boost |
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Yes we have a loong way to go. There's still the possibility to exclude the bull and the bear in the first production run which would greatly decrease costs and let us get started on the piglets. I'm constantly looking for blogs and sites that might publish or talk about the campaign. If you come across one such site, let me know. Working with a tight budget is limiting But I'm going to try at least one guerilla marketing tactic to get this going |
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@ DigiPiglet
Ahh, so that's why they're not loaded with BTC. Too bad that it's a requirement for Kickstarter.
But hey, you can still sell them pre-loaded via your own website in the future.
@buwaytress
Well, after thinking about it for a little bit, I decided to actually write 2 articles.
The first one will just serve to promote the Kickstarter, I will write that without having actually seen the product.
The second article will be an actual review of the product, with original photographs and perhaps a giveaway or something.
Sounds great, we can also do a little Q&A for your article (give people a little bit of background information since the product is not yet live), just let me know. |
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Hey OP! Been a while since I first checked these cuties out. Got an email in my inbox informing of your Kickstarter Live campaign! I see you added a How-To video, sweetness. And the Hi there, later gif, cute.
Only thing. No Bitcoin at Kickstarter! Should add a link back to your site for those who want to pledge/donate/buy with btc because Bitcoin!
P.S. eternalgloom, definitely looking forward to the review. Something about this piggy that makes it... very curious.
That's right, Kickstarter does not allow financial instruments, which is why they initially rejected the project. I managed to convince them that an empty BTC address is not much of an instrument, so we can sell, but without a balance. The same applies to running a shop on the side with the same product you offer on Kickstarter, that would be promoting an existing business on Kickstarter and is not allowed. If we manage to get funding, we'll start selling using the shop and begin shipping with a balance. Till then, we could work with an exchange or payment system that sends Bitcoin for $/€/¥ etc. to a specific address (the DigiPiglets address). I'll look into it once we get a little traction. |
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@DigiPiglet
Will definitely write an article for you, looking to get it published by Tuesday at the latest.
Besides that, I've also tweeted it and I'm just about to share it in my company's Slack (I'm working for a blockchain company, so it's definitely relevant).
I hope you reach your target!
That's so awesome, thank you for the support ! |
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Hey eternalgloom, I was just gonna send you a PM ;-) Yes, we've started the campaign to finally get this project of the ground and get the word out. It would be absolutely amazing if you could write an article, anybody who can help promote the project will be gifted with free piglets Please note that the piglets from Kickstarter will be shipped without a balance due to their rules. But if we manage to receive full funding, we can easily start selling them with a balance to make it easier for people who don't know how to buy Bitcoin themselves. Stay tuned, more to come |
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Any new updates regarding the shipping of this?
I'm going to move to a new address soon, so the address I've entered before will not be in use anymore.
Hey eternalgloom, I sent you a PM! Stay tuned |
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Hey guys! Sorry for being inactive these past weeks. I'll try to update more regularly!
We've made some minor improvements to the design and we are working on the packaging. I believe the packaging is just as important as the product in order to create a good collectible item. Once we've got it all ready I'll update the thread with pictures.
The other part is the printing of the labels. I've talked to a programmer, who is able to write a program that generates keys, sends them to a printer and deletes its memory immediately after. Companies that print PINs for banks, or gambling scratch cards need to adhere to certain security standards (APACS Standards, at least in Europe). Once I can verify that the process is indeed safe and works for our intended purpose, we will proceed with ordering a large batch of labels. Making sure that the method is safe might take a little bit more time than initially anticipated, but if we cannot be sure that the labels can be printed without the risk of duplicates, it won't work.
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You could (just an idea) label the first x orders (let's say first 20-30) as "founders edition" and individually number them as xx/30. This might increase your pre-orders, and help you with collecting funding for the project (due to the possible scarcity of those limited editions individually numbered founders editions, in the secondary market). just my 2 cents...
This is actually what makes it more unique indeed, I vote for adding something like this! Love the idea, I will send a message to the manufacturer and see what they can do. They've been quite accommodating with our ideas so far At the very least we will include a special card or something, but I'm sure we can make actual changes to the animals as well. I don't trust any alternative that's out there online, so I will work with a programmer to have a secure solution |
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Appreciate you being open and receptive to ideas and information as a new maker. This definitely helps your credibility. With pleasure. I really want people to be able to hodl these things for a long time. I initially wanted to call them Hodlpiggys, or Hodlmons. If you can not be sure that your keys aren't safe, you can't really enjoy the product. I myself would not want a product like that, so I'm trying to produce something better. The technology is definitely there. |
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I do not get the security label? Do you still give a Bitcoin address & Private key with the "nocrypto" version, without attaching it to the device or is the security label not part of the Bitcoin address and Private key combo? I should say having a code attached, will just give the thief a motive to steal the pig, because he/she would think that it has some coins deposited onto that Bitcoin address. The information should be hidden in a way for the average thief to think that it is just a toy and not something with value. <That would be the perfect decoy>  We're looking into if we can offer two separate versions, so you can chose from a generic label, and one with a public key and concealed private key. Having the private key "inserted" into the pig was the original idea, but I didn't want people to have to cut it open. I'll also consider offering two piglet versions, where one has the public key displayed, and one where it's concealed. |
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This is what I would recommend.... a) Sell the item with holo detached and allow the user to print their own public and private keys at home and then they can attach on their own. We have coin makers here that did that when they sodl their coins. b) The user sends you a public key only they have generated on their own or copied thru their wallet such as Mycelium, Coinomi or Trezor for example. You print it and and attach to the animal with holo over it. This way you never get to see the private keys. c) You create a public key and private key and do as you were planning to do. I am all for A and B, but not for C. I can see that for the person that is not familiar with BTC, A and B might be a challenge. In the past I used https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/ but would not recommend as I heard the original owner Canton is no longer in charge. Also you may give the purchaser A choice to choose from a, b or c. Again these are my suggestions and my point of view on what I would do. Please read up here on a thread I created and you will understand what most of us have experienced or have heard about. Then you will know where we bring our fears to the table. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0 I will say again, those who have own the keys own the coin. Goodluck mate and wish you the best. Having gone through your thread and those fraud cases, I am getting the feeling that the entire industry needs a new standard. Thank you for pointing all that out. We already have the technology to print scratch labels (like the pin for a credit card that you receive in the mail, basically the same as a private key), we have bots that execute programs or applications, I'm sure there's a way to combine the two and print concealed private keys on scratch labels, and use the hologram sticker to attach the two to our DigiPiglets. I'll look into how that can be done Keep in mind that we want mass adoption, so having users print their own keys will remain an option for knowledgeable customers, but not the main feature. We'll make it the main goal to come up with a trustless system, otherwise this will remain a niche thing. |
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Have you considered selling these as DIY? I'd feel much more comfortable printing my own private keys and attaching them with a tamper proof hologram. Nothing personal but I don't know you and there is no way you can guarantee that you aren't storing the private keys somewhere.
That totally works and makes it even easier for us. If you order the "nocrypto" version, we'll just put the security label next to the Digipiglet, and let you attach it yourself. Since we have to order the labels on bulk, we can't print "your" public key, so the key on the front will not match. But if a burglar not familiar with Bitcoin finds the code underneath the piglet and checks the front part, he'll just find an address with 0 funds, so our code becomes a decoy. Or we leave the code? I strongly believe though, that the average user want's everything already setup and ready to use, which means we'll have to make sure that the security aspect is flawless. |
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This board will be your litmus test so to speak.
We have seen many scammers and ill attempted ideas come and go.
So listen to the vets here as they will point you in the right direction.
Imo...I am still to the idea the buyer provide you with the public keys...leaving you with no liability of any theft.
Those who own the keys...own the [Suspicious link removed]dluck
I like the idea in spirit, problem is the company won't print label by label. Collecting them and then ordering in bulk would mean you'd wait longer for your DigiPiglet, which would be a bad experience if the price moves significantly. Also, the whole point is to give the customer all the tools he needs, it's geared towards those who are not capable of creating the keys themselves. But if we created a program/bot that generates the keys, sends a printing job to a printer and then deletes it's memory, we cut out one weak spot. If the printed sheet comes out covered, the assembly happens also without the person seeing the label. That would give as an extra security layer, right? |
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They dont outsource printing for their private keys. Holograms yes, private key printing no. Huge difference. I'm not digging on you, again I like the idea behind it.
Of course you are absolutely right. Never mind my last posts! We will print the QR-Code+key and add it to the hologram label. Just a little mix up here If you are accepting payment for these already how come we have not seen anything besides a single pig prototype? All I see are various rendered pictures and links to Casascius and Denarium promotional pictures.
I ask this because we know that those holograms work great on metals, but your piggybank does not seem to be made from a metal. I think you need to stress test the hell out of the security of these. What if you can use a heatgun and make the plastic of the piggybank heat up enough that the hologram just falls off? What if you can slice the piggybank a mere fraction deeper than the hologram and be able to make out the QR code/private key underneath? What if the plastic causes a reaction with the printer paper and it becomes unreadable after a year?
You've come to a forum where many members have coins worth $1000, $10,000, even $100,000 worth of bitcoin. Your idea isn't a bad one, but you need to have every single checkmark checked on your sheet before you can even throw yourself into the mix, especially here.
You may say well it is only $10 worth of bitcoin.. but no, bitcoin itself was once worth $10 each and look at it now. There is potential here but you have more work to do.
We started taking pre-orders to test demand. I'll accept cancellations no questions asked. We're still working on the label design and the adhesive (the supplier had the same concern as you), which is why there are still some sample/rendered pictures. It will all come together as time progresses, working on it The idea is a good one. Getting people to squirrel away a few bucks worth of BTC each week in a piggy bank format is cool. Currently, the weak link is your execution. Get that right and I suspect you will have a vibrant market. Embrace the security issues and explore how you can use these comments and ideas as source material to educate future piggy customers. This btw is key. As a provider it is your responsibility to educate your customers. Get it right and they'll be back for your next offering .... There's a really cool opportunity here, don't blow it with cheap short cuts or lazy thinking The audience may be critical, but they do love a good idea well executed and will pay for that too Viz Don't forget we're still in our alpha-stage, a lot of concept with only a little product. But we're getting there. Rest assured that we won't sell anything with people being unsure about security aspects or anything else. The way I see it, if the skeptics here approve of it, we have a chance of winning over the masses. That's our goal |
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Check out BIP38
Viz
Totally forgot about this method, thanks for pointing it out. Though you are correct in theory, in practice you are exposing your company's name/reputation to unnecessary risk as opposed to internally generating these keys. It sure would be frustrating to have a theft happen due to a security flaw at the printing company - a variable that could have been well within your control.
Please dont take this as a flame, I'd like to see this product succeed and am offering a critique based on a flawed methodology that supposedly brought theft onto a now defunct coinmaker (Alitin).
Would you consider the BIP38 encryption a proper measure in securing the keys? I'd love to find the most secure method, while keeping it as simple as possible. I definitely appreciate your concerns! We'll also use the opportunity and include a booklet or flyer with security instructions and information. People should be made aware of how much risk is associated with each method, so that they can allocate their funds accordingly. I am sorry. This is a cool little idea and great to give your little ones but I cant support this. You are pushing accountability to someone else if something goes wrong. While 10 doesn't seem like a large amount, what if you sold a 1,000 of these and a new hire at this company has copies of the keys. Access now to $10,000. I'm offering advise,dont outsource your private key printing. Good luck with your project, it stands a good idea, just not the execution side.
I get your concerns, but does that mean you don't trust Casascius, Denarium etc. either? understood BIP38 would be an option, but we'll try to generate and print the keys in a concealed manner first And just in case someone missed it: we do sell them unfunded as well |
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thanks for the thoughtful explanation. concerning 2) what I meant was: If I place an order today, 10€ is approximately 0.0022BTC with today's market price. When I will receive the product, the loaded value will be 0.0022BTC? (i.e. it will be calculated based on the market price at the time of placing the order? it doesn't matter if the price of BTC increases or decreases since then. 0.0022BTC now will still be 0.0022BTC in the future LOL) This might be a logistics issue for you, since every piggy will be loaded with a different amount of BTC based on the date the order was placed. Hence, will you consider this approach, or the other approach? (i.e. you will load all the piggy with the exact same amount of BTC, that reflects that 10€ at a specific predetermined date in the future when the product will be ready.. let's say at 1/8/2019) BTW, I already placed an order! looking forward to receive it Thanks for the order, much appreciated If 0.0022BTC become 5€ by the time we are ready to ship to you, we'll add 5€, so that you receive the promised 10€. If 0.0022BTC become 20€ by the time we're ready to ship, you'll receive just that. That's only for our pre-order stage though. Once everything is fully setup, the customers buy the piglet, our system buys 10€ worth of Bitcoin, we load that amount to the address and ship immediately. |
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