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Any news on when we can expect our coins back? I thought most of them were just sitting in the chain right outside of the GLBSE under Alberto's control. If that's the case, he should be able to pay off the majority of the debt pretty quickly.
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NAV per share updated to 1.08957716
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The rest of your post doesn't make much sense.
I agree and suggest that you put hazek on ignore immediately. He is wasting our time with trolling crap while we're trying to take care of important issues. Nefario, thanks for taking the lead in this. |
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So I thought about this some more, and what we really need is a default go-to organization that can handle major bitcoin scams such as this. Simply put, everyone cannot be a legal expert and waste their time going after scammers. A solid company dedicated to pursuing justice against bitcoin scammers would be a huge success and much needed for the community. They could handle all the work so that people like Meni don't have to. Of course, they'd get a huge cut of any booty collected, but it would be well worth it.
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I had a similar situation with JRO, and I have to say it's not your fault. You did what was best at that time to get the investors money back and what your thought was correct and right. It's not your fault that Alberto is a scumbag that runs away with peoples money. The blame is on Alberto and not on you. I thank you for writing up such a detailed explination, it shows you take this seriously and that you wanted well. The reason why I pulled out from the IPO in the beginning was because of how he and JRO acted regarding another asset Rebate, I had my doubts about Alberto but not strong enough to say anything publicly, maybe I should have...
Well, I think that the community has a lot to learn from this and several other defaults going on, I for one am going to change some of my investment rules to make sure this doesn't happen to me again.
Legal action must be taken we can not let another scammer get away.
//DeaDTerra
That's the problem, if we don't get serious with scammers, they will get away with it, again and again.  Honestly, I'm not ready to throw the towel on supporting bitcoin businesses/startups yet, and I (like you) will be putting better policies into place, but to be honest I'm getting really sick of bitcoin right now with the insane magnitude of scamming going on. It's making it impossible for me to conduct business and almost making me miss the normal stock market. First pirate with 5 million USD, and now Alberto with over 100K USD. And of course Matthew's million-dollar bet and the whole REBATE and ZIP.A fiasco. The one thing I know for certain is that something major absolutely needs to form to help protect investors against scammers. If scammers are afraid to scam, they won't do it - period. I'm not sure what that is yet, but without the ability to enforce contracts and pursue justice against criminals, I don't see how to effectively bootstrap an economy around bitcoin. |
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I am extremely depressed right now about the situation, but Meni, no one is blaming you. We are all on your side. It is Alberto here who is the criminal and should be pursued as such. |
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Normally I do not comment publicly with my opinion on various securities, but somehow I feel compelled  NASTY is undervalued relative to other comparable mining securities. In fact, the pricing of NASTY is precisely what led me to completely shed my GIGAMINING position and move into NASTY shares - a decision which turned out to be correct, as GIGAMINIG fell drastically in value afterwards (I got out at around 1.15/share). NASTY is one of my favorite assets, right up there with COGNITIVE in terms of being one of the few reliable, trustworthy, and value-producing mining offers (that's right, NASTY has produced a strong positive return over and above the rate of simply holding coins, which is quite rare among mining offers.) That said, it was *slightly* better before when it used GPUMax, but I wholeheartedly agree with the managers decision to not support a business run by a suspected criminal. |
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You were all warned that exactly this would happen. But instead of keeping the bitcoin safe in the blockchain, refused to believe it and chose to do absolutely nothing. Just kept waiting and waiting, until it was gone. How is that commendable?
Bullshit. cytokine and the investors in this fund (myself included) were very aware of the pirate risk and did everything possible to avoid exposure. Keeping bitcoin safe in the blockchain? really? So instead of growing the economy and supporting bitcoin businesses we're supposed to hoard it all away where it does nothing but sit there? The problem so far has been fraudulent activities by trusted members, not people wanting to support the fledgling economy and willing to take some risk. very aware of the pirate risk? I have quotes of cytokine saying a pirate default was "highly unlikely". He did everything he could to stay in denial because the returns were Too Good To Be True. Furthermore, giving away your bitcoin to HYIP scammers is not "growing the economy" nor "supporting bitcoin businesses", unlikely you call ponzi scamming a business. Unless you do due diligence and invest in *real* projects, not "arbitrage" and "mining farms". Maybe when so-called investors stop being so willing to get scammed, it will be worthwhile for entrepreneurs to start actual businesses instead of more HYIP funds. My investors have no pirate exposure, nor have they ever had pirate exposure to my knowledge. The Nick Razze deposit is a special case because he was dishonest with all of his depositors, but it does appear that we will ultimately be getting our money back. While I am not at all happy with how things are going this month, I believe we are doing surprisingly well on a relative basis considering many other people have been completely ruined, directly or indirectly, by the pirate default. We have survived it, which I am very happy with. As long as we can get through this difficult period of drawdown, I have no doubts about our future growth prospects. It is true that I did not believe pirate to be a HYIP since his business model appeared to be the high volume selling of coins from depositors to large clients in exchange for "other" coins, but I could have been very wrong about that. Regardless, it doesn't really matter, because I had a talk with my investors about pirate on several occasions, and we all agreed to maintain a position of zero exposure, which I have stuck to. Finally, regarding running completely to cold storage: it is certainly a solution to the scamming problem, but your solution denies capital to legitimate bitcoin businesses. For those who are willing and wanting to take on that risk in exchange for growth potential, providing this funding is a necessary part of the economy. That said, I do believe that cold storage is an essential savings vehicle for each person, but it's up to each of them as individuals to determine what percentage they wish to allocate there. I do not under-leverage the fund in this way because there is no one-size-fits-all solution, not to mention that it makes no sense (the whole point of cold storage is to do it yourself so that you have to trust no one). |
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thank fuck i got out of this one!!!!!!!!
Agreed. I hope he makes a large payment soon so I can begin reallocating this capital. The problem with going to zero interest is that it doesn't provide him incentive to repay rapidly. |
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Damn, our first big draw-down due to some major selling across the board on the GLBSE. All of this is related to the fallout from BS&T's default no doubt: my guess is that people are mass selling in order to meet creditor demands.
However, since a lot of issues are now trading significantly below their face value, it does appear that we could eventually have a nice snap-back rally when things finally recover. For now, it's good to get the pain over with, even though it's unpleasant.
NAV per share updated to 1.08576037
(BTW, I'm using the 5-day average price for each asset now instead of the last-trading price when calculating the NAV per share. This is how we're doing it from now on as per the FAQ.)
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there was an update yesterday and dividends were paid recently
True. Although I am not happy that Alberto has defaulted, I want to take this time to thank Meni for the level of communication and professionalism that he has shown with this issue. Will definitely do business with Meni in the future |
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I just noticed a rather large dividend payment, so it looks like he has started the process of paying off the principle. This is very good news.
Really? I'm not seeing anything after the 0.036. Oh, okay I didn't realize that was purely an interest payment. I thought he was beginning to pay down the principle. I misunderstood. |
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I am sorry if it seems we are judging or blaming you; I do believe you're making your best. It must really be a nightmare to have responsibility for other people's money these days, however good your strategies could be in a sane market.
Thank you Francesco, I really appreciate this comment. |
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I just noticed a rather large dividend payment, so it looks like he has started the process of paying off the principle. This is very good news.
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The good news is that Friday's coupon of 0.036 BTC per bond was paid, including the late fees.
The bad news is that Alberto says he doesn't currently have available bitcoins, and that he will need to move some funds around and liquidate some assets before he can perform a complete buyback. This has been taking much longer than expected.
Also, Alberto says he will not be able to sustain the original contract terms of 3% weekly interest until a 120% buyback. I reminded him of the commitment he has made, but he insists that he can only repay the face value of 1 BTC per bond with no further interest. Any dividend payment made after the last one will count towards this total. The contract will be updated to reflect this. He has reneged on his original obligation and this shouldn't be taken lightly; however, I believe that if he does indeed manage to repay the face value the matter will not have been a complete disaster.
Progress towards resolving this matter has been slow, and I have made it clear to Alberto that some real progress is expected by next week, which includes more funds repaid and some clarification of the matter of withdrawals from the Bitdaytrade platform. If he fails to deliver I will have no choice but to release more information and escalate the debt collection.
Because this event is disruptive, trading of the asset has been frozen until investors can absorb the news and some stability can be obtained. If it seems justified, trade will be resumed later to allow people to freely trade according to their belief in Alberto's ability to repay.
Alberto's total debt is 5000 BTC in outstanding BDT bonds, 4000 BTC in a private loan from me and Bitdaytrade deposits in an amount which to me is currently unknown.
Also, as much as I'd like to spend much time on this issue, I am already WAY behind my schedule of preparations for the trip to London, during which I will not have internet access; any further action from me will have to wait until I get back on Wednesday.
I do not agree to a buyback of 1 btc per bond. Unacceptable. Great, yet another security is in default. If Alberto fails to repay, I would like to pursue immediate legal action. We will have to coordinate this next Wednesday when you return from London. |
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Hello here is an update on the GPUs.
In Thailand we have 3x 5850 2x 6770 and 2x 5770.
These cards are to be sold as part of gaming computers.
Being returned to us by Teek is and 5830, 5x 5850 and one 7970
What we have sold was 6x 5830's 8x 5850, 1x 5970, 2x 7970
So I need to send out dividends for the cards sold.
This brought us in $3110.
I will send this out tomorrow. Thanks.
Awesome, thanks Goat. |
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I would love it if you got a second chance to log in before having to do a captcha. I realize it's a balance between security and ease of use, but nearly every time I fail the login I end up doing the captcha between 5 and 10 times before I can get back in Also, the ability to establish a PGP key just in case we are unable to log in would be useful as a backup. We could simple sign a message to you proving our ownership of the account if necessary. So you are suggesting GLBSE holds onto a database of the public keys corresponding to account emails? Correct. Just an idea though. |
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I would love it if you got a second chance to log in before having to do a captcha. I realize it's a balance between security and ease of use, but nearly every time I fail the login I end up doing the captcha between 5 and 10 times before I can get back in Also, the ability to establish a PGP key just in case we are unable to log in would be useful as a backup. We could simple sign a message to you proving our ownership of the account if necessary. |
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Just an FYI guys I'll be doing the NAV update tomorrow.
BTW Goat retired TYGRR.BOND-D last night, so I took the liberty of buying up all of the outstanding sell orders of MOVETO.FUND below the NAV per share. So for those of you who wished to exit at this time, you are out.
However, for those who may wish to enter at this time: I have temporarily suspended sales of the fund until the NAV is updated tomorrow. The rationale is that I want to see how this pirate situation plays out this weekend before resuming sales. Thanks.
What is happening this weekend? Nothing apparently. NAV updated to 1.1758086495 And the credit crunch continues... Nckrazze says 3 years to pay back and jokes that he's 9 years old. Has he sent you *anything*? BDT is on shaky ground, and it looks like you hold nearly half the outstanding shares. If those both go to zero then MOVETO's nav will be a little below .7 btc/share (based on the holdings posted on the first). Please tell me you've made some amazing trades in the past 10 days. As far as I know Nick is going to be slowly making payments until the position is eliminated. We will not be earning any interest though, but will reinvest the payments into other stronger securities. I'm looking to sell back BDT soon as well. Just noticing, I wouldn't pay a penny for BDK.BND either *355BTC in good loans
*6040BTC in defaulted loans
I'm going to try to negotiate a sale for this, but Kluge is making plans to repay as well by, for one thing, getting a job. Sad I know, but I do trust him to uphold his debts, and unlike Nick he has promised to continue making interest payments. Yes I know pirate has screwed up a lot of people, and a lot of deposit takers lied and were secretly, non-transparently and dishonestly investing more than they could afford into him (and we're definitely affected by this), but please try not to take it out on me. We will eventually come out of this credit crunch and survive and grow. I will not stop with my mission by running the spreadsheet every day to decide on new positions, to mark the NAV according to the 5-day average trading price for each asset we own, and help take steps to increase transparency in the bitcoin investment world. I believe that, thus far, I have set a good example by being honest and putting my own money on the line right there with my investors. Despite the fact that some were dishonest with me, I have always been honest - it's in my own long-term interest to be honest anyway, not to mention that even if I were dishonest, I would have my assets frozen by Nefario and be immediately doxed by other members. All scammers deserve prison in my opinion, and nothing less. They make me literally sick to my stomach. Sorry for the rant, but I'm pretty pissed right now at what is going on in the community. |
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Alberto says the coupon payment will be delayed a bit more. I am hoping we will see some progress by Thursday, if not I will share more details about the current situation and see what further action should be taken.
Could you please share those details now? Is a second buy-back in order? If so, I would like to sell my bonds back ASAP. There's enough stress right now out there concerning the Pirate-induced credit crunch without having to deal with an unreliable bond issue. I hope you understand and will accommodate. It will be better for Alberto anyway to get out of debt, rethink the BDT situation, and then ultimately relaunch with less expensive financing. Let me know. I have a sell order out @ 1.0 |
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