so what am I doing wrong?  |
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Phil - Where do you have you L3+ army pointed? What pool and what are you mining?
More like a squad. 11 of them 6 at viabtc pool 5 at nicehash Sometimes I switch the nicehash to tbdice for solo I just switch some to tbdice until monday wish me luck http://ltc.tbdice.org/users.htm3QkjD...WxpN2 Self 1.55G / 0.185% 1.14G / 0.167% 201M / 0.169% 43.6M / 0.243% 84.1M / 0.225% 11886.65853 3QkjD...8wdNtWxpN2 1646_____36.9M / 0.000%____36.9M / 0.000% 35.9M / 0.000% 36.3M / 0.014% 11886.65853 3QkjD...dNtWxpN2.a 15413____441M / 0.000%____301M / 0.000% 41M / 0.000% 1.79M / 0.000% 128.77881 3QkjD...dNtWxpN2.b 15982____482M / 0.000%____232M / 0.000% 26.4M / 0.000% 1.13M / 0.000% 18.20738 3QkjD...dNtWxpN2.c 15721____444M / 0.000%____373M / 0.000% 66.7M / 0.000% 3.01M / 0.012% 85.55906 3QkjD...dNtWxpN2.d 16961____382M / 0.000%____330M / 0.000% 58.9M / 0.000% 2.66M / 0.000% 167.02984 |
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From my practice there are simple measures to avoid failures.
Do not place these boards in the closed case, setup the fan to cool the bottom layer of PCB.
Do not allow the local overheat of any component like DC/DC or external power connector.
Turn on the overtemperature shutdown in the bitstream, and control the temperature in the mining software. It is easy.
Then the FPGA board will work for years.
I agree. But there will always be people looking to squeeze out every drop of hash. So if you set 75(c) they would set 85 (c) hoping for more hash and faster roi |
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I'll roll if he releases a firmware that bricks the fpga cards. That would be the most epic trolling of all time. Give out some really high figures, get a bunch of people to spend a ton of money on hardware, then release a firmware that destroys the fpga  I've destroyed an amazon node or 2 accidentally with power draw. Mining is the reason the shell now has that 150A limit. nice FUD It's a completely realistic scenario. No, it's not. Unless you physically start smashing an fpga, you are not going to brick it, it's not a consumer product you just run xyz miner you downloaded odd the internet. Total fud. What's a fud? Also you can very easily brick an FPGA if you don't know what you're doing (or do, and are trying to). One in a data center owned by Amazon? I don't know about that, I would assume they have safety measures in place, though as the OP says, they now have a power limit to prevent it... Fear uncertain doubt Since amazon put an amp limit my guess is morons mining at balls to the walls pedal to the metal speeds can kill the gear. |
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Folks all these predictions and calculations are fun to read but at the end of the day the 3rd law of crypto-dynamics states that the value of a token asymptotically approaches the cost of mining it, plus a small profit related to the cost of capital. Ultimately mining economics become like a utility. I predict that in the not too distant future governments will secure key blockchains with public money as a public service.
And no form of private mining will be profitable. Cpu, Gpu, Fpga or Asic.
Yep I could see this happening. I figure a few dozen coins are enough if it goes fully under government controls. |
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Let’s play the devil’s advocate.
While all of these sounds good, there are some risks that you can’t afford to ignore:
Each hardware that is brought online, decreases profitability for all other existing hardware (based on hash rate).
Everyone is fighting for a piece of the same pie.
The early adopter has the shortest time to ROI before the coin becomes saturated with hash rate.
Things always look good if you ignore the eventual increase in global hash rate.
You are at the developer’s mercy for releasing FPGA bitstreams if you can’t design your own.
Variations in performance can vary widely between public and private designs.
You are locked to a few small coins and someone with a better algo implementation can decimate your ROI time.
And the biggest risk of them all is AWS F1 instances.
As long it’s profitable to mine on AWS or other cloud providers, people will do so. Amazon does not shut down your instances when you are upfront with them, and how do I know this? They care about your ability to pay bills and follow their ToS.
Just playing the devil's advocate.
this is a major concern. Just how long before my 5x 5000 = 25000 fpga get the software upgrades I need. There was some safety in a world of 200,000 gpus on a coin since many wanted some software and a developer Claymore for instance could simply take 2% off the top. In this world of fgpa there will not be 200,000 pga's screaming please give me new software upgrades. and as I said if the coin changes algos a lot even the pga guy will struggle to keep up with the switches. and if the coin never changes the asic builder will whale. so the fpga guy will need just enough algo changes to be okay. I suspect the fpga will be good for some coins the asic guy will be good for some coins the gpu will still do okay. |
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decent info. thanks. not sure what to think |
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Right, the GPU dump on crypto crash is one side of the bad scenarios for Nvidia (the other side being extremely high crypto demand which drives gamers to consoles and they loose a large chunk of their GPU gaming business).
NVIDIA makes the guts for Switch and AMD does Xbox and PS so gamers moving to consoles maybe isn't that bad. Gamers moving to mobile platforms might be more of a problem although I'm not sure if anyone would really say "dang this 1080 is too expensive so I'm gonna play Candy Crush instead"  But Nvidia does not control whether crypto crashes or booms. They have to have a strategy keep their base (GPU gaming/Datacenter) market intact in either of these scenarios. I don't think having their own coin is a viable strategy for these scenarios, it will just drag them deeper into the crypto world.
However they're exposed to those crashes and booms already. So I think the point Phil was making is that NVIDIA/AMD would actually have more control if they developed their own algo or otherwise embraced crypto in a more "official" way. hey I am a geek,but I have a degree in accounting along with a lot of economics. So this brings out a very interesting economic model. My core belief is 50 to 100 million miners minimum or adoption struggles. Gpu's were the easiest way to have 50 to 100 million miners. I built gaming rigs since 2004 every gamer I know mines a bit when they can not game. Cant see killing that off being good for crypto coins. Just like I can't see POS working for coins. I can see varitions of the op's idea including his actual idea being viable as a side base. |
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Out of curiosity, for the veterans here, how much of the difficulty increase has already been absorbed by Z9's at play? Looking at ZEC from nov-now, for instant, one can see a big rise from roughly 5 Feb to 5 March: https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/zcash-difficulty-chartPrices were tanking during this time, 2x GPU markups were at play, so it seems unlikely a concentrated wave of new GPUs hit the network around now. If difficulty increase has already been at play, how much more would we expect from new batches? Similar scenario with eth, it's hovered in 3-3.2 for some time. Yes that is a different animal with Casper etc. but I'm referring specifically to difficulty increases being "baked in" by the pre-launch mining long before these asics are announced--in which case, we are vastly overestimating future asic-related difficulty spikes b/c they have already occurred. Yeah this is very possible. I think if a lot of coins fork off like monero did. equihash-new-algo and equihash-old-algo could happen. So 1080ti's could become very good money makers soon. ignore link https://www.backup-utility.com/clone/ssd-cloning-freeware-4348.html |
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GPUS with 3 year warranties have a place in a low power operation. My solar array deal with buysolar is 'free' power So the gpus would earn for as long as they last.
Does an fpga have a 36 month warranty?
not for mining use, its 30 days (or 90?) they reduced it from their standard warranty period. i believe they said you can buy extended warranties however. thier main concern was DIYers ignoring ESM precautions and abuse due to ignoring proper installation (heat, power quality, improper installation etc). still these are industrial units with a proven reliability record, in wide use in industry (so bittmex says, and i have no reason to doubt them atm) , not bitmain trash. while i am a bit disappointing, i still would buy. their monitoring software monitors a lot of sensors to keep it in the safe zone, which is the main reliability point imo. This is why I bookmarked thread. I want to see how this develops. I can see some people have technical interest in it. I can also see why op wants 4% fee not 2% or 1.5% as he fears this won't last for him. I respect that fear it is a healthy one. Looks like this year will be an all out attack on gpus via asics and fpgas should be fun to watch it happen. |
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Sellers are selling these at 0.06 btc in this marketplace.
and on ebay about 3 people want under 600 usd
asking 0.10 btc is asking far too much
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Why do you think AMD/Nvidia are even in the mining game?
What does Nvidia get when a retailer price gouges while selling a card? Zero. NVidia would make money by selling chips to board manufacturers or selling cards directly. Do you know if NVidia has marked up its chip prices due to mining?
It’s does not seem interested in selling cards directly as it’s store is almost always out of stock and always at sane prices (e.g. 1080ti at $699).
If it was interested in mining, it would stock up its store and mark up its prices due to high demand. Clearly that has not happened.
And would a public listed company risk investing heavily in crypto market, which faces regulatory challenges worldwide? It would an extremely adventurous move to say the least.
They're in the game whether they want it or not. NVIDIA makes the P series specifically for mining. They also acknowledge the revenue albeit as "difficult to quantify". https://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/call-transcript.aspx?StoryId=4144915&Title=nvidia-s-nvda-ceo-jen-hsun-huang-on-q4-2018-results-earnings-call-transcriptStrong demand in the cryptocurrency market exceeded our expectations. We met some of this demand with a dedicated board in our OEM business and some was not with our gaming GPUs.
This contributed to lower than historical channel inventory levels of our gaming GPUs throughout the quarter. While the overall contribution of cryptocurrency to our business remains difficult to quantify, we believe it was a higher percentage of revenue than the prior quarter. That said, our main focus remains on our core gaming market, as cryptocurrency trends will likely remain volatile. Yep the big fear for them is a complete crash making a glut of 300-400 dollar 1080ti's even AMD has this issue. If I am a gamer and this seller on ebay https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=philipma1957is selling 350 dollar 1080ti's {note the seller is me I am not selling any 1080tis} I would buy that 1080ti knowing I have an ebay return. This happened with last the crash. Except it affected AMD a lot more then Nvidia. This time both builders will be affected. So like it or not both AMD and Nvidia will have to counter move on Asics and FPGAs. I think the op has a good idea here I just caution people about countermoves. Once again if my Nvidia-Amd coin of the month is invented with 36 algos ready to be placed in on the first of each month for my mining card with a 3 year warranty how fast does the fpga get reprogrammed? Also how long is its warranty? GPUS with 3 year warranties have a place in a low power operation. My solar array deal with buysolar is 'free' power So the gpus would earn for as long as they last. Does an fpga have a 36 month warranty? |
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[AMD and Nvidia]
And would a public listed company risk investing heavily in crypto market, which faces regulatory challenges worldwide? It would an extremely adventurous move to say the least.
i wonder that also. its one thing to put out custom mining cards, but for either company to actually design a coin, figure a use for it (store of value, utility, whatever) its algos, and get it traded on exchanges seems pretty risky as now they are directly involved in "printing money" so to speak. thats way out of their normal business. maybe a spinoff company? dunno. and what if the coin bombs? just because amd or nvidia makes it doesnt mean it wont be just another shitcoin. might be a lot of r&d down the tubes. they might be able to (unofficially? but thats risky too if caught) support some devs of an existing or new coin. or be an advisor or something. i can see devs moving to algos that need 10 gb or more (1080ti class memory) in the short term but even that wont hold back asic/fpga for long, looks like its getting much easier to add large chunks of ram to fpga, the uxppr3 has 4 rdimm slots in it. plus its ability to take (the super expensive and stupid fast) qdrii+ memory. im still gonna risk a fpga. i must admit it will be mainly for the fun and to play with it. i dont really see it as a super weapon or major money maker though. but i dont see it as being super terrible, i would think it would eventually make its money back but years vs months? who knows.I can wait to watch it shake out. I am down from 60x 1080tis to 18 of them. The 18 make a small profit. For now I am more interested in LTC as it has a ton of asic hash and is mature. I bookmarked this thread. As I would most likely order one of these once it is mature. I also know if asic and fpga trash gpu profits. There will be a glut of cards on the market if this happens Nvidia and AMD won't sell much of the new cards they make. I have to think they will do something about that. |
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This is a very interesting discussion, everyone stands on their own interests, and op just wants to add a way to mine. Let time prove everything.
I am very interested in the economic structure of mining. Millions of rigs can mine with gpus. So this reduces that or does the market shift? To adjust to this? I can’t see crypto coins succeeding without gpus. 5000 dollar FPGA cards don’t cut it if you need 10 x 10 card rigs. 100 x 5000 = 500000 dollars Where is the driving force to get more of them? If the coin developers dont resist FPGA why should they resist asics? So FPGA will simply be all replaced by asics. So once again how fast does the op upgrade your FPGA? If a coin switches every month? If it takes 2 weeks your gear costs 2x what you thought it would. And if the developer say fuck it let asics take over FPGA is not fast enough. So for this FPGA to work you need just a bit of forks not too many. This is why I wish the op luck earlier in the thread. He has to hope both amd and nvidia give up on Mining . Do nothing . This could happen. He also needs some resistance from developers ie some forks. But not too many forks. This could happen. I can wait and see. My 18x nvidia 1080ti earn more then 40 a day after power . They are paid off. I could get lucky if forking becomes the norm. As I do see that too many forks make FPGA hard to profit. |
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I ask again what do Nvidia and AmD do to counter this?
@ op if My coin does an algo every month and it is closed software because I am Nvidia what do you do to program your FPGA.
As many would say Nvidia made flashing its bios very hard.
So if Nvidia wants to continue in sales of gear for mining they can make their own coin. With a new algo every month.
How fast for you to reprogram your fpga in that case?
would you be able to not lose 2 weeks on each algo switch?
Or does nvida make its own fpga for 2k and sends you the buyer of that fpga a file for the new algo every month.
I can punch holes in your plans for days and I am not Nvidia or AMD. So basically what do the major card makers do here.
If FPGA and asics kill off gpus' they are millions of 1080ti's that will sell for 200 to 400 on eBay so amd and nvidia won't be able to sell newer cards . I am thinking there will be counterpunching by those two companies.
I will wait it out.
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...
Nothing is resistant...it all comes down to economics. With FPGAs your limited with the number of programable gates the silicon has. The more complicated the algorithm the less "cores" you can fit on the die. If someone wanted to create a GPU algorithm that was not as economical on an FPGA, you would make it so each round requires a ridiculous amount of instructions, or have the coin use a large amount of different algorithms which take up precious FPGA space. You then take the advantage away from FPGAs because 1) it would require alot more effort and time to program the FPGA, and 2) you can't fit as many cores on it, so the instead of it being 10x as fast as a GPU, you can only get away with 2-3x with maybe a slight increase in efficiency.
So I am amd or nvidia. I don’t want to lose sales. Do I develop Nvidia algorithm of the month coin. A coin that has 36 algorithms that will change once a month . That would be asic proof and FPGA would be push to run it. Or do I make my own FPGA cards to mine coins. I think both amd and nvidia won’t surrender the Mining sales. I wonder what they will do to respond to this. |
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You still want some to not fork.
But this could be good news.
My monero Mining is much better after the fork
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which firmware?
I have march 6? i think
mm: 8411803-14b0f10 May 4th firmware This is why I ordered a second setup. I want to be able to easily cross compare firmware. Based on your info the May 4th changed something. You get different results then the March 6th firmware. If I run on completely separate rasp pi’s I can sort out what the differences are. |
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Price updated.
pm sent I am in NJ so maybe we can do a meet up rather then ship it. I would send you the btc up front. |
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Just a question for you guys with more experience than me
When (if) GPUs dies, like in the past, everyone will suffer to?
Programmers like Claymore
Programmers like the ones who made SMOS, ETHOS etc
Small and Medium Miners
Gamers
This is very complex economic question. The short answer is pain to many that did not understand to diversify. The long answer is really hard to give. I see gpus this way. how many 1080ti 1080 1070ti 1070 1060 1050 1050ti rx580 rx570 rx560 rx480 rx470 rx460 answer many millions of them. Killing them off kills off millions that would mine small scale. Absolute moron move of greed. But and here is the big but how to keep them alive? Raven maybe. ALGO-of- the-month coin is my new idea. this new coin switches every month to a new algo. the developer launches coin with 36 algos ready to drop for 36 months in a row. this makes the coin asic proof for sure. it makes the coin fpga resistant . the two players that would want to make a coin like this would be AMD AND NVIDIA Will we see it I have no idea. But I am holding on to 18x 1080tis just incase we do. |
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