Sounds good. I'll be investing too when all the details are out  Please let me know if I have missed any details. I am trying to cover all of my basis before the mini rig boxes arrive. As full disclosure, the mini rig boxes should be arriving sometime in May. |
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Feedback
1 BTC would be more reasonable for me. The payback at today's difficulty and price is about 300 days. At 1.2 BTC the payback goes to almost exactly 1 year. I think I would buy in at either price but my level of participation would probably change depending on what that price is.
Thanks for the feedback. I too am starting to that the 1 BTC range is where this bond should start at. I do believe though that you will sell all of them quickly at either price. I think your reputation alone will sell an awful lot.
Thank you. I appreciate your kind words. |
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I'll offer 10 btc for the debt.
I have lowered the price to 15 BTC. |
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gigavps, I'd really like to see this. The price point looks right in line. While I trust you, my partners may want some additional verification of the production of the 5Mh/s per coupon (I'm covering all my bases here) Do you have any software in production or development to provide that?
Yes. I run BAMT which has a web monitoring tool so that anyone with the web address can easily see my entire farm hashing away. I currently have this page locked down in apache but would open it up for investors to review. My one issue is the repurchase (and forgive me if I failed to read exactly)
Are you offering to repurchase at 105% the (somewhat standard) previous 30day average price, or 105% the initial purchase price?
The repurchase would be at 105% of the highest traded price over the previous 15 days. I would like the bond to be offered after the mining operation is installed. I have a good deal of money out on mining gear already, and would prefer not to pay a premium to wait for yours  - overspeculation before mining ops commence could be to your detriment if you have to repo coupons at an averaged price. there are a few choice offerings now on the GLBSE, and this looks like it will be one. Thank you for your constructive feedback. It was my first thought also that the hashing power be installed before the initial offering. I appreciate your kind words regarding the offering. |
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Original idea 10,000 shares at 1.2 BTC equals 12,000 BTC at this moment in time ~$55,000 4x BFL min-rigs equals ~60,000 or $5,000 cost to him for the two mini-rigs he gains through this bond if BTC goes over $5 you actually pay him to have bought these not just the gain of the rigs. So if that math is not simple enough for you then I don't particularly care just be informed as to what is going on he makes essentially two free mini-rigs by doing this if your all happy with that purchase away.
DILLIGAF, your math is a little simplistic. Let me pose a couple of questions. - Who pays for the electricity to run the 50Gh? - Who takes on the responsibility to deliver the coupon payments every week? - Who is effected if equipment dies? - Who pays for downtime? - Who pays for power outages? - Who pays if the HVAC dies? To answer all of those questions (and i'm sure there are more I am not thinking of) at once, I am taking on these responsibilities. Again, I hope to be setup in such a way to be able to still deliver even in the face of great adversity. If you feel that this does not warrant the premium I suggested, please let me know what you feel is a reasonable rate.Good enough as I have said now people know the rest they can buy if they wish too I don't care one way or the other just pointing out the math of it as they seem to be fond of and the confusing terms you have used it is either bond or mining company can't be both the way you are doing it.
I have changed the name of the venture to "Gigamining Bonds" to try and be as clear as possible. |
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Will you wait for the Mini-rigs for the IPO, or are you thinking on making it sooner?  I was originally planning to wait until they arrived. If the community would like the initial offering to happen sooner, I would definitely be willing to consider it. I will update the OP with this. |
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hmm
Witnessed and confirmed. Double hmm if you will. |
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Well you can chop it in half to reflect the fact that those 50gh/s you are bonding is actually included in that bond not the full purchase price of the 100gh/s you are getting for those BTC you raise with this. Oh and the hardware mentioned that you intend to use for this bond is here.
I have decided to disclose all of my hashing power so that investors can know that I am capable of fulfilling the bond payments even if equipment was to fail. It also states in bold that the 10k coupons equate to 50Gh. |
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You could start by doing as all the other companies have done namely include everything that the BTC invested has bought as I have pointed out already this deal gives you ~$30,000 profit off the hop plus all the BTC that will ever be produced by those two extra boxes you get to make out of it.
DILLIGAF, the only investment that has been made thus far is by me. There is no bond yet and no initial sale. This is not an IPO where you own a share of a company. This is a bond coupon that guarantees to pay 100% PPS at 5Mh/s per coupon. Every other investment vehicle like this thus far has similar profit margins, just not at scale. Are you saying that it is wrong for me scale up the same business model already proven by others on the glbse? Now that people know that this is the idea you could state this in your terms of offering if they buy still knowing this is the case you have been honest and upfront with them so there would be no basis for any more discussion on this aspect of the deal. If people want to give you ~$30,000 bonus plus BTC produced off that bonus equipment for having bought said equipment more power to them.
I see no hardware listing here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65569.0Only a contract to pay PPS of 1Mh/s to each coupon holder. If you feel I have been misleading in someway, then you do not need to participate. If you can get a better deal, then I would recommend you setup your own mining company. I am asking for pricing feedback from the community in the thread. If you think the price should be different from what I have suggested, please say so. |
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Nobody claims they are scam now especially you as you have many of the singles according to you that were in your possession before the mini-rig was even announced let alone available for purchase and you are transferring 100% of the risk onto the bond holders with this idea.
You are correct. I was just informed that I will be receiving 4 mini rigs instead of the two rig boxes that I originally purchased. I did however, put up the money for these rigs well before I received all of my singles. Not much of a hassle with them things plug cable into computer plug into wall turn it on fire up mining program and go.
You are also correct. The only hassles are a) getting the funds together, b) sitting on your hands for three months until the equipment arrives and c) dealing with the heat 60 singles would generate. If you feel that I am not providing enough value, please make a recommendation. I would much rather discussion solutions to the problems you see than to try and rebut the same arguments over again. |
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The way I see it, he has a great reputation and if he makes a great offer then it's a win/win for everyone and thus these shares are going to fly off the shelves like hot BTC cupcakes.
Hi Kaos, Thank you for your input and feedback. I truly appreciate your kind words and am eager to provide the win/win scenario you describe. Best, gigavps I am also eager to hear others feedback so don't be shy! |
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The plan as you can see below with his reply is to get two free/near free mini-rigs by selling off the bonds, the BTC from that sale should pretty much cover all of the rigs.
Hi DILLIGAF, Thank you for your feedback. I would like to make a couple points. 1. I have taken on all the risk of purchasing this equipment, up front, when everybody on the forums were claiming that BFL was a scam. 2. This equipment will be profitable for the foreseeable future whether I do the bond or not. 3. I see this as an opportunity to allow others to mine without all of the pain / headaches / etc. that comes with building a mining farm. 4. You are correct, I am also trying to make a profit. Ultimately, I am here to try and provide the best value to date for a venture of this type. Best, gigavps |
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If I understand this correctly, he just provides the software so you can turn your existing botnet in to a bitcoin farm. Thats probably not even illegal.
Maybe the software he is selling is infecting the purchasers computer for his own botnet.... </tinfoilhat> |
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Let's put it this way.. I dont want the mess, the noise and the maintenance and it will take me a couple of months to get my BFL single. On the other hand you can start now. The BFL Single was advertised for 600 MH/sec and now it's over 800 MH/sec, I say it can reach to 1Gh/sec by Q3 2012 but that's about it. If you sell each share (5Mh/sec) for 1BTC today to brake even (ber BFL Single) you will need to actually sell 700Mh/sec on each BFL and use the rest as your pure profit. Assuming that they can push the BFL single to go higher that will give you a nice little bonus by Q1 2013. Now since you have a mixed rig between GPUs and BFLs you will take a small profit hit (i.e. less margin) on your GPUs. I hope (assume?) that your secret plan is to use that bond money this year to buy more FPGAs and get rid of your GPUs (selling them to recuperate some of the cost) by at least Q2 2013. Which means that by Q2 2013 not only you would have managed to upgrade your farm but you'll have made a good profit at the same time doing it. So, IPO shares should be at 1BTC (make it lucrative) then let offer and demand take care of the share price. Also I'm in if you can guarantee that there is not time limit on this and if you choose to buy them back you will indeed buy at +5% of whatever is the current share price.  The bond would actually be fulfilled with 2 BFL mini rigs. I have already purchased 4 of them. Each mini rig is spec'd at 25.1Gh with a power draw of 1.25Kw per hour. I pay $0.0714 per Kw/h. Since you seem to like doing the math, I'll let you take it from here. |
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Ok gigavps.. i have a few questions.. just to keep you thinking.
First are you selling shares? with 100% PPS?
Or are you selling Bonds that are worth a certain amount of money for 5 GH/s?
This is a bond. The bond will pay a dividend every week that the owner of the bond holds it. Each bond is the equivalent of 5Mh/s. Just an example.. 1 bond $3,500 for 5 GH/S and never expires.
Each bond is for 5Mh/s and will be priced somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-1.2 BTC per coupon. What do you mean by selling it back at 105% I dont want it anymore you will pay 5% more then what i paid? I am sure your going to need a time limit on this one I will retain the option to purchase back bonds at anytime for 105% of the highest trading price over the previous 15 days. So if the bonds trading high over the last 15 days was 2 BTC I would pay 105% of the 2 BTC to repurchase a coupon. What covers the electric costs and internet costs? And or network related infrastructure and maintenance.
Between the mini rig box's efficiency (spec'd to be 20Mh/w) and maximizing the BTC output of the hashing power, I should be able to more than cover the electrical costs. |
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Let's do the math.. Each share (is that what you mean by coupon) on GLBSE will be traded fro 1.2BTC (~$5.60 in current rates). 5Mh/s with the current difficulty = 0.101 BTC/month (~$0.47). So ROI/share will be in about 1.4 years but accounting for profitability decline it's more likely to be 1.7 years. That's not accounting for anything else but pure ROI from dividend. Say we want to reach the equivalent of a 5970 (700Mh/s) that would cost us 168 BTC (~$783). It will generate 14BTC/month (~$65)... Same ROI obviously. Now let's make it interesting: * If I were to start mining today from scratch with an ATI 5970 that would cost me for one year: $650ish for the rig + $394 electricity (300 watt at 0.15kWh) * If I were to do the same with a BFL Single (assuming I will be running it down to 700 Mh/sec and not the advertised 832 Mh/sec) that would cost me for one year: $600 for the BFL + $105 electricity (80 watt at 0.15kWh). All of the above giving me the same returns mining-wise. On top of that add the benefits of having your mining power in easily changeable shares and the potential benefits from that. Thus at 1.2BTC it's a good deal. At 1BTC it would be a steal How's my math!??! I think your math is sound. I do want to make this an attractive offer both for the IPO and for 6 months out. It sounds like we need to be somewhere between 1 BTC and 1.2 BTC. |
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Glad to see this finally started going through.
Thank you JL421 for consulting with me regarding this endeavor. |
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So what do you this each bond should be offered for?
I was thinking along the lines of 1.2BTC per bond.
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No disrespect, but she's a looker. Congrats.
And she let's me mine bitcoins. Now back to the topic at hand. |
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I will love you as much as that girl on your avatar if you manage to pull this hat trick right!!! I'm In!!!
So ... I've been meaning to ask for sooo long ... OT, I know ... but who's that hottie ? That would be my wife. I'll add this info to the OP. |
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