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2181  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 26, 2015, 12:33:15 PM
I guess I'll give you points for being consistent: you're probably not simply 'anti Bitcoin', but against the larger development of excessive 'financialization' (through financial derivatives), right?

You bet.

Money is not real wealth, it is just a token that one can exchange for real wealth things and stuff.


Real wealth is something that most of the "intellectual powerhouses" here will never understand or have; they are too busy obsessing over accumulating stuff and things, measuring themselves against illusions and performing in a loaded game.

+1

real wealth is knowledge.

all other things are...well...things.



That's so fucking profound. Thanks for that original and enlightening thought.
I'm curious what YOU measure yourself against and how you think you're doing. Don't say you don't do it.  All that would mean is you have no interest in self improvement.

Tell me, oh wisetits, how should I measure myself?





From the top of the base to the tip? I think anything else is cheating.
2182  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 26, 2015, 12:26:22 PM
http://youtu.be/LYnnm3L12fA



    "Such a waste of time, he chose money over power. In this town, a mistake nearly everyone makes.

    Money is the McMansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after ten years.

    Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries.

    I can not respect someone that doesn’t see the difference."



 Cheesy
2183  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 11:44:09 PM
Opps, collateral damage Empowering.   Wink

 Cheesy fairplay

(glad not to be in any list with them lot!)
2184  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 11:38:21 PM


Wow... I think I am the only generally bullish person on that list, that actually contributes.

Ah well.

<shrugs>
I don't read this thread much but I was surprised to see you on the list lol

 Smiley

I know, I do not seem to fit in with the company..

Ah well I must have offended or bored the guy sometime.

Can't win em all.
2185  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 11:20:40 PM


Wow... I think I am the only generally bullish person on that list, that actually contributes.

Ah well.

<shrugs>
2186  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 11:15:06 PM

Meh, I did not even look at the tweet, and I am not going to "discuss" anything with you, that is not what you are here for..

The point is the way you carry on, all you deserve is to be told to go and fuck yourself each and every time I see you bleating.

2187  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 11:06:44 PM
2188  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 10:56:47 PM
2189  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 10:43:53 PM
^It's a disruptive black swan tipping point paradigm shift Cool

Bitchcoin's gonna be huge, don't miss the New World Reserve Currency boat.  CCMF!

Ok I invested my life savings into Bitchcoin. What do I do next? Just wait or take out a loan and buy more? I got a good feeling about this Bitchcoin, thanks for the hot investing tip!!!

Go the whole kidney.

2190  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 09:25:24 PM
Now we have even banks seeking for new employees whit knowledge in crypto. That is huuuuuuuuuuge.

Morgan is looking for jackals.
2191  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 09:01:09 PM


The bogous assumption in these kinds of discussions, is that bitcoin is in competition with these bank like services. Bitcoin is not that, bitcoin is money, base money, like banknotes. The confusion stems from the fact that bitcoins are so easily transferrable, globally, instantly, that they seem to be something different from normal money. But they are money, only very easily transferrable.

The services of banking is of course possible for bitcoin, just as with any kind of fiat (and gold). So anything from the banking world that is useful, will be implemented by the market in due time.




I do not believe I am making this assumption.

 

Right, it was the one you quoted, Wandererfromthenorth. I just think that bitcoin, being comparable primarily to fiat money, not to banking services, should be pointed out repeatedly.


Ah  Smiley

I tend to lean towards it being something all together new (hence it has a shiny new name) not exactly the same as either, but it does contain elements of both.

2192  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 08:38:55 PM


The bogous assumption in these kinds of discussions, is that bitcoin is in competition with these bank like services. Bitcoin is not that, bitcoin is money, base money, like banknotes. The confusion stems from the fact that bitcoins are so easily transferrable, globally, instantly, that they seem to be something different from normal money. But they are money, only very easily transferrable.

The services of banking is of course possible for bitcoin, just as with any kind of fiat (and gold). So anything from the banking world that is useful, will be implemented by the market in due time.




I do not believe I am making this assumption.

 
2193  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 08:36:52 PM
2194  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 07:33:36 PM

Considering bitcoin is irreversible and all, good luck with actual consumer protection.

OMG! It's irreversible like the cash you pay in a brick and mortar! There is NO WAY consumer protection could exist with bitcoin.  

Oh wait!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mainstream-consumer-protection-meets-bitcoin-100900458.html

Quote
February 13th, 2014 -- While Bitcoin has been exploding worldwide, many have argued that for Bitcoin to reach the next level of mainstream adoption there needs to be a mechanism to protect Bitcoin users from scams and fraudsters. New innovative open source start-up Bitrated is doing just that – bringing the standards of consumer protection customers have come to expect from legacy payment systems to Bitcoiners worldwide. In a world first Bitrated offers consumer protection for the safe purchasing of Bitcoin and other goods with Bitcoin, an open arbitration marketplace, buyer fraud protection mechanisms, niche experts and more.

Are you even aware of what day of the week it is? Huh

No wonder you are a wanderer  Undecided
Calm down, cultist. You are a little nervous.

I read this thing and I see "trusted third party". I thought bitcoin was supposed to avoid those evil ugly "trusted third parties" satoshi was talking about in his paper and that this was the whole narrative for bitcoin paranoid libertarians.

Now you are saying that trust is necessary?

Can you imagine a world, with improved Bitcoin security ,where some are , if they choose, able and willing to secure their own coins and devices, and then there are others, some individuals that use companies, third parties, and some companies are insured, so as to comply with standards that enable them to interact with the conventional financial system, in a way that satisfies peoples needs and the regulations that exist?

I can.

Looks like we are going at the very core issue of the whole bitcoin phenomenon.

First satoshi creates a technology that is supposed to avoid "trusted third parties" because apparently they are a problem.
Then we discover that trusted third parties are actually important and not a problem.
So we introduce trust in something that was supposed to avoid it? Huh

Why not used centralised finance that works better in the first place I wonder (that sure can welcome some improvements for example with distributed ledger protocols)?

Basically we just discovered that the original satoshi endeavour of making money 100% decentralised and trust-less was kinda... bullshit because trust in necessary.

So you are saying you cannot imagine a world where some choose to use a third party, if that is their choice, and some choose not to, and instead choose to disintermediate?

The point is you now have the choice.

I have not bought a CD, or used blockbuster, or bought a DVD for nearly half a decade, I still can choose to do so, but now I download or stream all of my content. However if I wanted to I could pop down to the shop and pick it up and buy cash, or order online and get a hardcopy sent in the post and pay by credit card or by Bitcoin , but I choose not to, I choose to interact with the web (with the risks associated) and download or stream or p2p,  but the point is I have the choice. Whereas I remember very clearly getting all new release films from blockbuster or going to the cinema, because well I had no choice.

The advent of digital downloads and streaming and p2p, did disintermediate to a certain extent the businesses that used to be the largest providers of DVD/CD rentals, sales etc.

It provides the choice.

Plenty of people I know still buy DVDs and CD's and plenty of people p2p or stream, and industry is playing catchup all of the time with this.

Point is people have the choice, to use technology that disintermediates the middleman.

Also, solutions to problems are being found all the time, Bitcoin security being a problem that is getting a lot of focus, I expect to see better solutions relatively soon. Things change.

(ps "Middle men" is quite a good film anyone seen it?? it is actually quite relevant now that I think of it  i.e internet, payments, evolving tech, and dodgy dodgy fuckers ... but now years later turned into a "grown up" fully fledged global industry, which still has some dodgy fuckers no doubt)


2195  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 07:14:19 PM

Considering bitcoin is irreversible and all, good luck with actual consumer protection.

OMG! It's irreversible like the cash you pay in a brick and mortar! There is NO WAY consumer protection could exist with bitcoin.  

Oh wait!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mainstream-consumer-protection-meets-bitcoin-100900458.html

Quote
February 13th, 2014 -- While Bitcoin has been exploding worldwide, many have argued that for Bitcoin to reach the next level of mainstream adoption there needs to be a mechanism to protect Bitcoin users from scams and fraudsters. New innovative open source start-up Bitrated is doing just that – bringing the standards of consumer protection customers have come to expect from legacy payment systems to Bitcoiners worldwide. In a world first Bitrated offers consumer protection for the safe purchasing of Bitcoin and other goods with Bitcoin, an open arbitration marketplace, buyer fraud protection mechanisms, niche experts and more.

Are you even aware of what day of the week it is? Huh

No wonder you are a wanderer  Undecided
Calm down, cultist. You are a little nervous.

I read this thing and I see "trusted third party". I thought bitcoin was supposed to avoid those evil ugly "trusted third parties" satoshi was talking about in his paper and that this was the whole narrative for bitcoin paranoid libertarians.

Now you are saying that trust is necessary?

Can you imagine a world, with improved Bitcoin security ,where some are , if they choose, able and willing to secure their own coins and devices, and then there are others, some individuals that use companies, third parties, and some companies are insured, so as to comply with standards that enable them to interact with the conventional financial system, in a way that satisfies peoples needs and the regulations that exist?

I can.
2196  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 07:10:08 PM
What I meant is that "bitcoin insurance" can probably only be what circle and coinbase are offering, basically telling people that "it's all insured" but if your computer/account gets hacked you are screwed and they don't give you a penny.
Considering bitcoin is irreversible and all, good luck with actual consumer protection.

If I let my computer get hacked, and the thieves empty my fiat bank account, I'm screwed, too. No difference.

One of my neighbours had her bank card stolen after she went to an ATM. The thieves had seen her typing in her code. She got nothing from the bank.

Sounds like utter bullshit.  What country do you live in?

I have a friend here in the UK, that used a ATM machine that had a card reader inserted into it, she was not covered either.

Your neighbor, who is now your friend, got her card stolen [presumably after the thieves have seen her type in the pin]?  Sounds legit.  
You sure your friend is your friend, and not just another Bitcoin scammer?

Ha ha ha, you looney.. you do realise you are mixing two different people right? ^^

Get some sleep, take your meds, put on your glasses, engage your brain, take a bath, if you have access to one.

You really are filthy, bitcoiner.

2197  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 06:53:43 PM
What I meant is that "bitcoin insurance" can probably only be what circle and coinbase are offering, basically telling people that "it's all insured" but if your computer/account gets hacked you are screwed and they don't give you a penny.
Considering bitcoin is irreversible and all, good luck with actual consumer protection.

If I let my computer get hacked, and the thieves empty my fiat bank account, I'm screwed, too. No difference.

One of my neighbours had her bank card stolen after she went to an ATM. The thieves had seen her typing in her code. She got nothing from the bank.

Sounds like utter bullshit.  What country do you live in?

I have a friend here in the UK, that used a ATM machine that had a card reader inserted into it (and lost money) she was not covered either.
2198  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 06:50:45 PM
http://www.coindesk.com/cyberinsurance-pioneer-bitgo-insurance/

Insurance will soon be commonplace, for most/all Bitcoin related business.

Get used to it.
Like Coinbase and Circle pseudo-insurance?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=960437.msg10517604#msg10517604

No... like insurance veterans getting into the Bitcoin space and providing insurance.

If I had meant coinbase and circle, I would have posted that.  Cheesy
What I meant is that "bitcoin insurance" can probably only be what circle and coinbase are offering, basically telling people that "it's all insured" but if your computer/account gets hacked you are screwed and they don't give you a penny.
Considering bitcoin is irreversible and all, good luck with actual consumer protection.

I know what you meant.

I disagree with the "can probably only be what circle and coinbase are offering"

Hence my post...

I do believe that insurance companies will continue to develop and interact with the ever evolving digital payments space, why would they not? insurance companies are having to constantly adapt. Also maybe they will not cover you if your computer gets hacked, maybe they will eventually, as it is going to become more of a problem in the future, but they almost certainly will provide insurance for accounts held with reputable companies with adequate infrastructure and security that has met their underwriting needs, and protect consumers funds.

I do not pretend to have a crystal ball.

However I do believe that things change, and can change quickly (including the fate of BTC) and the world is going to change immensely in the next 25 years, without a doubt.  Bitcoin may be part of that, and it may not.
Insurance companies will be a part of that, and will adapt to whatever technology throws them (at a service level that we are used to by insurance companies, i.e it works, but they always have the house advantage)

Insurance companies are currently preparing to provide cover to services that do not even exist in the mainstream just yet, or are in the process of being rolled out, apart from anything else, they need to stay relevant, in the light of incoming developments in technology. While insuring various upcoming technologies will earn insurance companies lots of money, some will take profits away from them (driverless cars) so it pays them to adapt and provide their services to the market as it adapts.

Insuring Bitcoin will be no different.


 
2199  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 05:52:40 PM
Looks like some people here still use the fact that bitcoin recovered from a almost complete retrace crash in 2011/2012 when marketcap was more than 100 times smaller than today (and the whole landscape was completely different) as an argument that it will do the same now.

*sigh*

and some people seem to make the argument that it can never retrace to a price, that it was at just a year ago (and pass that even) despite everything that is happening in the space, which is light  years ahead of where it was in 11/12, which they keep trying to say means nothing.

*sigh*

and all the while the truthiest truth is that non of us have a crystal ball....





Light years ahead? What happened? A few big or small merchants and companies "accepting" bitcoin while *NOT* accepting bitcoin? Few exchanges going bust? Plenty of scams that burned a lot of noobs? A few ATMs? The development of potentially better technologies (not talking about shitcoins lol)?
I don't see real improvement.

Also, "light years ahead than 2011/2012", that's the point, you buy for cheap when nobody is talking about it (2011-2012), not when noobs start screaming "moon, guaranteed!" and rambling about bitcoin world domination because "infrastructure". That's when you consider dumping if what you see around doesn't convince you.


I mean read that Fed "bullish on the technology" article and tell me if it's not the most bearish thing ever for bitcoin itself.
What they say it's pretty clear.


I am not here to convince you.

I am not a noob, and I am not talking about "world domination"

However if you cannot see the significance of the developments in the space since 11/12 (which continue as I type) then there is little point in me pointing them out to you, as the situation is self evident in my opinion.




 
2200  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 25, 2015, 05:28:17 PM
http://www.coindesk.com/cyberinsurance-pioneer-bitgo-insurance/

Insurance will soon be commonplace, for most/all Bitcoin related business.

Get used to it.
Like Coinbase and Circle pseudo-insurance?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=960437.msg10517604#msg10517604

No... like insurance veterans getting into the Bitcoin space and providing insurance.

If I had meant coinbase and circle, I would have posted that.  Cheesy
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