If you are really serious about 100PH (i.e. 100,000 TH), then here is a starting point to consider: http://bitfury.com/products#container-datacenterI have no idea what it costs, nor when it could be delivered, nor all the other infrastructure costs. At $.08/KWh, plan on an electric bill of roughly $86,400 for a month to run a single one of them. Keep buying them until you run out of money, or electricity, or otherwise come to your senses. Contact BitFury for further details. I am sure they will be happy to take your money.  That data centre stuff is best for the low electricity places. It could be easy to maintain. But it has to be put in a remote place with cheap electricity. To be fair we don't know price of just miners from bitfury or container to say what would be cheaper. I do agree in most cases buying miners and having data center to put it in is cheaper. And most of the big players already have data centers... so they are more likely to get just the gear I think. I also thought about it when you mention "remote place". Some of the places gear is being put in is not the most stable enviornments. I'm not sure as a investor I would want all my gear inside a shipping container someone could steal. Imagine your entire investment being drove off (not likely to happen but scary thought). Compared to big data center where security around miners. If you have a data center at least they have to take the time to move them to transportation making it more likely to catch someone. |
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Hey thanks for the reply
right now ı got 4 s5 and 3 s7 so ı kinda know how loud they are and the coolıng system need.
becouse of the low power cost i got i think ı wıll make profıt wıth mınıg when most ppl wıll need to quıt minig.
and i am assuming the minir have no resell worth.
after all costs (tax,powersuplly,shiping) i will have like24 miners.
these are my minig conditions.
And i got some questing.
1.
Why are ppl with hıgh power costs still investing i mean if you got more then 0.1 for power you earn next month wıth the nex dif. just 75 dolar for a 1200 dolar miner (antminers 7) investmen.
so if you dont got any other costs this means you need 13 months to get your money back and start making profit but like the s7 ther antminer will get another new mıner out next year
and you wil make maby 20 - 40 dolar so you will never get your invest back.Why are they still minig ?
2.can you give me a worst case scenario about the dif. ı dont thınk btc will go low after the btc halving but i am afraid of the dif. couse %25 its hughe it got 4x ın the last few months
AND THX FOR YOU HELP.
At .02 if that is your rate yes it's low, make sure you have in all taxes and fees in that number. But anwsers: 1) A lot did not expect this diffficulty change ( I didnt), so we mined for quite a while. Part of it is believing bitcoin price will rise, which it has done many times in past. This time though price stay low which high change... not so good. 2. We can only guess no one can say for sure. Can it be another 20+ next difficulty I hope not but if multiple companies are pumping out tons of gear... it's possible. There is no worst case we can give that has accurate enough speculation. Best advice is watch the next few difficulty periods. If I was going to make a big investment in gear I would watch it right now for a few before investing. I like feeling I have good speculation before big purchase... right now I don't feel I have great accurate speculation. |
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Price went up from around 370 to 386 today. So nothing massive but still a jump up.
Bitwsidom still high:
Bitcoin Difficulty: 120,033,340,651
Estimated Next Difficulty: 143,985,324,370 (+19.95%)
Adjust time: After 460 Blocks, About 2.6 days
Hashrate(?): 1,035,384,430 GH/s
Block Generation Time(?):
1 block: 8.2 minutes
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I'd like to stake this address to: 1MocACiWLM8bYn8pCrYjy6uHq4U3CkxLaa
Thanks!
Quoted |
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do not buy Chinese equipment, which fall due Think about this comment for a few seconds and I think the humor will come to you. Chinese equipment..... that is where most miners are made . So the gear your powering in almost all case is Chinese made on miners. |
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Today is down and we are finished at +23.6% for the day!
I cashed ½ my coins today. I will buy back when we drop under 250. Looking forward to this crash. i hope you are "trolling" on this one.. are you? is this a joke? how can we go back to $250 with such diff jumps and investments in mining? is your opinion that whatever equipment mining the new diff increases is SOOO cheap to produce that they will dump coins for any price down to new unknown levels? I don't think it's a joke. We are in for either a horrible time for miners, or a skyrocket on value. No one can predict which one it will be. The big operations have the lowest electricity prices (for the most part). And the best prices in gear, if not tied in with maker of miner. These miners will have to dump BTC for fiat to cover operation. They have to sell no matter price, and they can do it at lower price then most home/hobby miner. Add the not knowing of having to this..... it's hard to say whats going to happen in next months. |
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It seems like many newly created accounts are uses to bump topics with useless messages that ad no context to the discussion. I think that depriving newly created accounts of the ability to bring a post to the top by bumping would reduce the likelihood of accounts being created just to spam.
There could be a good idea withing it. Just one that is hard to do. We have all seen threads where a very low post account looks like it's bumping a thread. But I don't think there is a manageable way to stop it automatically. They had the "newbie jail" for a while here it limited forums, and I think it was a pain for mods. Also kinda supported new accounts to spam in hopes of getting out of new area sooner. So don't see us going back to like before. Best chance is if you suspect a new account is alt bumping report it to mod. They can look behind the scenes and see more then us. But I think that is as good as we can have. |
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So very few hardware manufacturers in the Bitcoin ever delivered more wealth to their clients despite making grandiose claims. BFL was probably the biggest loudmouth of them all.
The only mass production hardware manufacturers are Bitmain, Avalon, KNC and BitFury. Bitmain is the best. I think he/she was referring to past manufacturers (see title of thread). It seems even in the 4 you listed the opinions have swayed very far. Avalon was loved until Yifu cheated everybody. KNC was loved after their first/second batch and then went to hated. Avalon is kinda hard as if were talking about past it's a different company things such as Yifu. If were talking about current it's considered "Canaan-Creative" but almost everyone still calls it Avalon. I never dealt with the company during the Yifu times (luckily). I have only dealt with the current one. Another big one I dont see mentioned was asicminer. I mean they were the game for a while with block erupters, then blades, then that box. And now they are nothing. Who would have guessed that when they number 1 for so long. |
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I think the old adage "Don't invest more than you can afford to lose" is as important as ever.
While I don't subscribe to "doom and gloom" scenario for life in general, it's difficult to see how BTC transaction fees can support the current BTC mining infrastructure in 20 years. In electricity costs alone, the current "transaction processing" costs are just way too high.
This will become more evident this summer, and even more so in 4 more years (roughly).
If a transaction fee is say .001 (which I think is high), then you would need 1000 packed into a block to equal 1 BTC right? The costs to do that are pretty staggering right now. While I expect we'll get more efficient equipment over 20 years, I am afraid that difficulty adjustments will negate a good deal of that. I expect that for BTC to survive long term its price will have to increase substantially, AND we'll need a massive shake out in mining infrastructure to allow difficulty to fall. How many TH/s do we need to adequately provide an accurate and complete record of transactions?
What's interesting is that for most other forms of currency, there isn't a strict accounting of what the costs of supporting it are. Bitcoin makes that much more obvious.
blocks need to increase in size so that transactions grow in size. not in btc size just more transactions. growth is crazy.. I started in 2012 the network was 20th right now I am mining 24th in my house so in 3 years and 6 months we went from 20 th to 1050 ph. this is 51,000 x the hash. and transactions have not grown any where near this Part of it I find cray is that this growth of 20+ were looking at one difficulty change. If someone would have told me in October difficulty would have moved so quick like it is not I would have not have believed it. I think this many high difficulty changes will change things. Exactly what will happen.... I'm not sure. But something will happen with changes like this. Just the price of gear unless some new chips is going to go down quickly. And what else will be interesting to see. |
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Not all online wallet are giving a good benefits and some feature that we like..
I think the best and secured wallet online is blockchain but there's a fee for every transaction.
But im always use coinbase to secured my bitcoins in my vault if i want to hold bitcoins for a long year and there's no fee for every transaction.....
i think coinbase is a great choice for storing medium-sized, spendable amounts, but if you have high volume of bitcoin kindly store them on trezor or paper wallet Coinbase has a insurance policy that most don't have. It is a interesting choice as it has that policy. But they have never had to test the policy, at least that I know of. You are trusting them with your coins completely though. You don't have private key's or any way to withdrawal if there is a problem of their site. So it's a lot of trust in them to keep it there. |
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Still a great miner. I have been playing with different pools with it seeing if I could get better then normal or PPS. Lots of good pools out there, no issues with any so far on pools after using it on multiple.
At end of day I did not do amazing but was fun trying different pools seeing if I could better then going rate.
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Love the Avalon, really hope they can stay competitive with pricing. Seems like all resellers are still selling them at ridiculously dated prices of $1300-1400. Only our forum members like Philip / Kilo17 are doing members a favor in helping us get lower prices. Even then, the batch 10 S7 at $780 is the final nail in the coffin for Avalon, unless they can come out with a more efficient / powerful box or drop price to the 600-700 to stay competitive.
If Avalon dropped the price to 600-700 I would buy some. But honestly the S7 is dirt cheap now. I'm done with Bitmain though after my Batch 9 failure rate and their "vacations". Had to buy 2 more to fulfill some orders, but I have none left now and won't be getting more. Honestly I'm feeling what philip is, don't really know what my next step is for miners. I have purchased more then 30k from s-7. They have lost interest in me so I can't chase them anymore. Anyone want 9 .05 btc coupons ? Bitmain probably is too busy counting all their money then worry about our concerns. Difficulty is going crazy I wonder if they are full focus on making gear to have racks full during Chinese holiday's. Also someday they will need a new chip.... I wonder where their dev is at. They could have one ready to go or still need dev, no one knows. All I know for sure is price of is going down a good amount with batch 10. And I wonder with difficulty change what next one will be. We live in interesting times. |
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Today is down and we are finished at +23.6% for the day!
I cashed ½ my coins today. I will buy back when we drop under 250. Looking forward to this crash. Phil do you use Coinbase to sell your coins? If so, do you use their exchange or just your account (and whatever rate they provide at that moment)? I'm just curious because so far I've never sold any coin. But I'm thinking about it now... I sell them on coinbase directly to my bank. you will need to give a real id to sell like that. and keep sales under 10k I believe it's 10k a day to which is important. And buy back depends on verification level, it can be from instant to day's on timeframe to get coins. |
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Start by contacting Bitfury and asking for the following:
1) Specifications for their chip.
2) What it will cost to purchase chips.
3) When they would be able to deliver those to you.
Don't be surprised if they don't answer you unless you have at least a million USD to interest them. If you can answer the above questions, then please come back and ask more questions. You probably will have to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement (aka NDA) before they provide this information to you.
Best of luck.
I'm not sure how they separate it out but you really do need a sizable amount for them to look at you now. And it will take a NDA without a doubt that you lose a huge amount if you leak info. That is how they protect their info ...... which they have done very well. So one would assume these are good nda's. NDA's are very common when you want to get chips though. And I think you will see if you read sidehack's threads how it's gotten harder and harder to get chips. He is using chips taken off boards, you might contact him as I see him as a expert in getting chips in these hard times. |
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these numbers do not work the growth in gear is not sustainable with prices at 370 and transactions at 200,000 a day
This simply has to go bust. Or zoom. prices need to be at over 1000 usd for these current numbers to make any sense.
The scary thing is I think some of the big data centers it works with that have a few cent electricity. So it could stay the same and just drive a lot of little/hobby miners out. That is not a fun option, but could possibly happen. I hope it goes zoom as you put it if we could get a jump equal to difficulty change that would be great news. But so far does not seem price has went zoom or bust. So hard to speculate in times like this. |
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Not real likely, the big gain from the S5 to the S7 (and the SP20/etc to the SP50) was moving from standard-cell design to full custom design.
Bitfury's new chip is already full custom - as Bitmain has stated for their next gen "in the works" chip and Innosilicon has specified for the A4 (and by implication the A3).
For perspective, the B-Eleven is 14/16nm but NOT full custom, and it's supposedly right in the same efficiency range (when it hits production) as the S7.
That B-Eleven's efficiency is similar to the S7. So it is about 5 months late and it will make them some loss. I think Bitfury beat a lot of companies is part of it. B11 really needed to be earlier to make a big difference, although if they do low enough cost it might still work. So a lot of these companies that did chip dev I think will be forced by Bitfury to sell at lower prices. There are some companies like SP I really wonder what they will do. Counting on big buyers on SP50, when Bitfury beat them it would seem. It will be really interesting to see what happens when companies like those two compete for the big sales when it seems Bitfury is ahead so far. |
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I wouldn't be too worried about the differences between batch 8 and 10. I doubt that they would be releasing a later batch that is less stable. I think the main reason they have them separated out into two different products is because of the difference in pricing. All of the specifications of the S7 are exactly the same - you're just paying for an earlier place in line if you buy batch 8.
I think it is the difference in pricing. The price is getting cheaper lately as they are not as profitable as before. I think that is the only difference I think batch 8 and up are all the same design. The big thing is the design has less chips, which means less cost or should at least. They managed to do less chips and higher frequency. This allows them to sell for cheaper one would guess. And difficulty is crazy right now so price will change likely a lot of this continues. |
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Difficulty adjustments are normally about twice a month. At 8% per diff adjustment, the difficulty will MUCH MORE than double by halfing.
You are right. I have just done the maths and if we see 8% increases every 14 Days, the we would see the Doubling on May 12th. Shows how deceptive an apparently low number like 8% is, when compounded only needs 4 Months for a doubling. So let's hope, as I hoped, that on average it is less than 8%... Rich The rise of difficulty will be much higher when the 16 nm chip based miner come out from BitFury and BitMain. it depend on the value, there is a limit of the diff increase if the value do not increase in the future, and for the time being seems stagnant, so the diff will not increase indefinitely i'm expectign a slow down soon, if the value stays the same I'm not sure on slow down. We have a LOT of big players with cheap electricity, they can run at a profit where most regular people cannot. For example this week looks horrible on jump up, and price is going down. So right now.... not to bright future on mining. Will this change before having? After? No one really knows or can give a good speculation as it's a long time away in crypto world. I suspect these farms will just sell off the outdated miners to end users at a cheap price as they update to new miners. If they built the infrastructure to mine might as well keep on going. The hard part is the big players I suspect have very low cost electricity. When you have that low of electricity it is going to have a hard time to find someone with cheaper electricity. They might be able to do it though just going to be trough to find buyers. It is possible here is one that bought a bunch of old bitfury blades - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1231822.msg13587711#msg13587711 . It is a interesting read. |
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Today finished at +24%. Nice!  I had a few words for it none of them were nice. But wow if we can raise it 25 percent during this difficulty does anyone else find that scary? That just scares me thinking about it even being possible. This one is going to hurt. Thinking of buying miners in the next 5 months is a crazy gambling move. The reference points won't be the same. A 4 TH/s miner will be considered like and S1 today. The new chips developped by Bitfury, Bitmain and others (yes, there are more) will mark new standards. As a miner, it's freaking me out. The only thing we can do is accept it. That's the evolution of mining. The problem that worries me the most is the disagreements in the community (that includes devs, merchants, miners, etc.) about several foundamental things (including scaling). That could have a devastating effect on BTC price and on us, miners. this mining in exahashes makes the whole POW scheme looking silly. Phil calculated it somewhere as a response to my post. Basically, it goes like this: 1024 PH/s are used to support just 200,000 transactions/day, which means 5.12TH/transaction a day. So, at least one S7 costing ~$1000 (average price over last 3-4 mo) or more is used to support ONE measly transaction a day. If this is not an overkill, then I don't know what is. So lets think positive and BTC is grossly under priced. 144 blocks need to do 10,000 transactions each this would justify the firepower we now have. So we will crash or take off really soon. 10,000 transactions per block if each fee were 0.0001 would be 1btc in fees per block 10,000 transactions per block if each fee were 0.00005 would be 0.5 btc in fees per block without transaction growth this is simply not going to work. I like you positive thinking and I agree that btc is underpriced, but we (miners) seem to have no control over this, apparently. interesting times...so we need transactions going exponential, but they are not (at least not yet). something is not working overall...maybe the populace is too skeptical of bitcoin. I am fine with that, but why the heck we build up so much hashing power basically in the absence of demand. recent increases are cringeworthy and smack of a lack of understanding how it might affect everyone. Maybe it is a play for power on Bitfury's/Bitmain's part and we just got to be on the receiving end of what is essentially amounts to a devastation. I still wonder if part of reason for under priced BTC is big operations dumping BTC for fiat and paying off new miners. I think someone is adding a lot of hash and likely is selling a ton of BTC to pay for the new gear. Which company or companies it is would be interesting to know and amounts. But I think big operations mining and needing fiat could be part of why btc is so under priced. And a lot of big operations are able to sell it at that and still make big profits so I guess more power to them. |
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