Bear time?
Overdue. This thing needs to stop for a few weeks. |
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In the US, an officer of a corporation is required to do whatever is necessary to safeguard the assets of said corporation.
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe Genjix *purposely* refusing to call the police will make him criminally liable, and for this fact alone he could face jail time. Make sure you pursue this with the lawyer. I don't have enough invested to make this worth my while, but I wish you the best of luck.
This situation is horrible. At the very least a bunch of people where extremely negligent, and I also don't think the possibility of something more nefarious can be discounted. That being said, I'm beginning to feel very uneasy about the growing witch-hunt mentality. I don't know what the solution is for those of you with large losses. I don't want to come off as minimizing the impact some of the losses have on some of you, but I also would hate to see somebody's life ruined by jail time because of negligence. If something nefarious has been going on, then that's a different matter, and though I think things look suspicious, I think we ought to be careful about the charges we levy against people. This is the real world, real money, real people. Those in charge were prepared to make the profits one way or another thus their liable on the flip side is just as important, if this ruins the people in charge perhaps they will think longer next time around before trying to stick their heads in a cave where it doesnt belong from the start. I understand that. I really don't have anything else to say. I guess the lawyers are going to have to sort it out from here. |
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In the US, an officer of a corporation is required to do whatever is necessary to safeguard the assets of said corporation.
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe Genjix *purposely* refusing to call the police will make him criminally liable, and for this fact alone he could face jail time. Make sure you pursue this with the lawyer. I don't have enough invested to make this worth my while, but I wish you the best of luck.
This situation is horrible. At the very least a bunch of people where extremely negligent, and I also don't think the possibility of something more nefarious can be discounted. That being said, I'm beginning to feel very uneasy about the growing witch-hunt mentality. I don't know what the solution is for those of you with large losses. I don't want to come off as minimizing the impact some of the losses have on some of you, but I also would hate to see somebody's life ruined by jail time because of negligence. If something nefarious has been going on, then that's a different matter, and though I think things look suspicious, I think we ought to be careful about the charges we levy against people. |
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2012 is turning out to be the reverse of 2011. Bitcoins get stolen. Price goes up.
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Bitcoinica is a fucking joke
The bigger joke is on us, the community of bitcoin users, for putting so much value in a 3rd party service. In our craze to accumulate more bitcoins we basically brushed off the one of the biggest features - that we can secure the money ourselves. I was part of it for a time, regretfully. I almost transferred over 1000BTCs to bitcoinica at one point, and then at the last minute decided it was too risky. Not long after that everything went to shit. I got extremely luck that I only had 170 or so bitcoins in there, and now more than ever I appreciate the value of being able to secure them myself. |
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no effect on price?
Yep, looks like the market has already written off bitcoinica and all the shit surrounding it. |
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May I suggest people tuck away their lynch mob mentality for a second and instead try and use some usually a lot more productive rational thought before responding in this thread. Yes the situation is fked up but there's no need to start throwing around various threats of violence.
You all knew there was a counterparty risk involved when you decided to use their service.
Again, +1 |
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folks,
i think that it is time that we, at a minimum, start putting together a wiki guide for making secure bitcoin apps, from web to desktop to mobile.
who is competent enough to make one? maybe start to collaboratively put that together? it's really important that everyone's knowledge on the subject of security start being pooled and guided so that new people coming into the community with an enthusiasm for making great apps, don't end up like bitcoinica!
so how about it?
How about first we make a comprehension and simple to understand guid on how to secure your own bitcoins. |
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Lawyers are going to be very expensive and what if the "investors" don't have any money to make you whole?
Thats what I plan to find out, and to find who can be considered criminally liable for the latest hack. The tragedy of this route is that on the one hand it's the only active route that bitcoinica users can pursue at this point, but on the other hand I think it reduces the odds of anyone getting anything back. |
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Very sorry, Roger. I don't know what your options are at this point. It's looking more and more like this is going to be the way to go, but I doubt that'll end up being very satisfying in the end. This is a real mess. I don't know if it is coincidence, but Bitcoinica announced the latest hacking one day after myself and three other major creditors threatened to take legal action. The timing seems too convenient for them. Roger, I've been trying to hold my tongue on any conspiracy theories and such, but this whole thing keeps looking more and more suspicious. Obviously, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but this whole thing was strange enough a few months ago that it prompted me to take my personal bitcoin security very seriously (offline wallets, multi-factor auth, fireproof safes, etc.). I really wish there were some way to help you, because you've done a tremendous amount work for the project in lots of different ways. Again, so sorry for this. As I've said before, I hope that everyone is learning the value of bitcoin as a way to secure your own wealth. |
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Yeah we need more uber scummyfuck bastards associated with bitcoin... We need more people providing consumable services, and Dotcom might be in a position to do that with his up and coming music service. |
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Very sorry, Roger. I don't know what your options are at this point. It's looking more and more like this is going to be the way to go, but I doubt that'll end up being very satisfying in the end. This is a real mess. |
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Remember this: To be honest, your age isn't a problem, because the average above-average developer is still not competent to write this sort of software. If you had been doing security and financial software since birth, I might consider putting a bit of trust in the kitty to start.
I'm going to pitch a different take than a few others: Yes, great initiative, please keep trying things and building things, but end this project now. There are no probable outcomes where you do not end up having to explain where thousands of dollars of other people's money went to some angry people. There's also very nontrivial odds of being on the wrong end of armed Federal agents, based on some of the other comments you've made here. This is a horrible, horrible first-project sort of project.
Let me put it this way: Would you be willing to convert the BitCoins in your system into cash, put it in your front window, and post daily pictures of the pile of cash to your Facebook account, set to public visibility? Because that's roughly what you're doing. +1 to this guy. |
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Can you copy their ToS and post it here?
Will you post a link to the source code? |
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Why not just give the funds to Pirate, wait a month and have it back to 100%. Also after that month let Pirate keep it to give out to who he thinks is owed. I trust him way better than intersango at this point. Fuck it, they might as well at this point. The remaining funds will be hacked shortly, otherwise. Better to invest in a (suspected) ponzi than to just give it away to the hackers. Because they WILL get it. The Bitcoinica team is just too incompetent not to give it to the hackers. What's the total that bitoinica related ventures have given to hackers so far? |
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Can I say dirty words?
If not, I have nothing to say!
Go on... |
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Dear community, First of all, I would like to clarify that I had zero financial interest in Bitcoinica since January 2012. I can't touch any of your funds or Bitcoinica's profits. I was paid for operating Bitcoinica on monthly salary basis until April 1. However, I did sell Bitcoinica at a profit last year. I know that I have no responsibility to pay for Bitcoinica's losses occurred after the transfer of ownership (it's business common sense). I do feel that some Bitcoinica customers were unfairly treated by inefficient internal operations. I was born in a middle class family and vast majority of the sale was used to pay back the mortgages for my family. The remainder was used to fund my education in Australia. I don't have much money left but I'd like to contribute as much as I can. I pledge to contribute 5,000 BTC to all Bitcoinica customers. The money comes from my personal investment in Bitcoin and I wouldn't have touched it at all without the disaster happening. In order to reduce potential problems and inefficiencies caused by Bitcoinica team, I have spent 3 hours to independently develop a claim system for this purpose. Please note that it's not affiliated with Bitcoinica in any way. The claim form was not designed to be secure because payments will be made in a separate program. Everything will be done in a voluntary basis. Please be honest. All payouts will be made in proportion. I'll verify the claims based on the information I have. I have the right to disregard any claim if I feel it's not genuine. If you want to contribute some money to offset Bitcoinica customer losses, please send the coins to 1Lmb3fGLtizurD3mBq3QAKZ6mVb9kGMLSh. I will add 100% of the donations in this address into the pool. Any contributions, big or small, are appreciated. Please submit your claim here: http://bitcoinica-compensation.zhoutong.com(Please read the Conditions of claim carefully before you submit anything. The claim will close on July 21, 2012.) If you have any problems, simply reply to this thread. Zhou, this is a noble gesture, but I'm sorry, I have thought about donating some of my bitcoins to a fund like this, but I will not be doing it through you. I'm not trying to be offensive, but I simply will no longer trust anyone related to bitcoinica with any of my money. I hope you understand. |
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Bitcoins ok, but how 40k dollars disappear? how withdrawn? I do not know how mtgox codes work, but you can not really know where are redeemed? Other options dwolla? OKPAY? Bitinstant? LR? I really can't believe that you can move dollars without knowing where, how and to whom.
We know how and where the USD moved, but unfortunately those funds are not under our control anymore. Well, no shit they're not under your control, but you do know to whose account they moved, right? I understand your frustation and I would love to give you all details, unfortunately I cannot do this at this time and place. I will definitively give you all more details when I will be allowed to. As you can understand the situation is rather delicate and we, Mt.Gox, would not want to jeopardize any possible investigation by giving such details at this point. Ok, fine. But such details do exist, yes? I'm not asking you to disclose that information here. I just want to confirm that you can track where the USD went. As I said we know how and where the USD moved, so yes. Ok, thanks. |
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We know how and where the USD moved, but unfortunately those funds are not under our control anymore.
Well, no shit they're not under your control, but you do know to whose account they moved, right? I understand your frustation and I would love to give you all details, unfortunately I cannot do this at this time and place. I will definitively give you all more details when I will be allowed to. As you can understand the situation is rather delicate and we, Mt.Gox, would not want to jeopardize any possible investigation by giving such details at this point. I thought a verified account could only transfer large sums to bank accounts of their own. Didn't some guy from this forum had issues with a wire he sent to his wife's account or something? Exactly what I'm getting at. |
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Bitcoins ok, but how 40k dollars disappear? how withdrawn? I do not know how mtgox codes work, but you can not really know where are redeemed? Other options dwolla? OKPAY? Bitinstant? LR? I really can't believe that you can move dollars without knowing where, how and to whom.
We know how and where the USD moved, but unfortunately those funds are not under our control anymore. Well, no shit they're not under your control, but you do know to whose account they moved, right? I understand your frustation and I would love to give you all details, unfortunately I cannot do this at this time and place. I will definitively give you all more details when I will be allowed to. As you can understand the situation is rather delicate and we, Mt.Gox, would not want to jeopardize any possible investigation by giving such details at this point. Ok, fine. But such details do exist, yes? I'm not asking you to disclose that information here. I just want to confirm that you can track where the USD went. |
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