Why the acid tone? You are following QQ group but you didn't speak up till now. You said QQ is the thing, which QQ group to join? The trading groups listed on BTCChina are all full except the last one, and I am still waiting that one's approval for me to join. It reall feel like a coterie even for a Chinese (me): People talk things but you need their permission to join, and its discussion being not archived, you have to be there at the right time to know it. Massive DDoS took place and the exchagnes didn't put up that as news (there was news in March but not this wave), only message spread between QQ groups. Somebody could do the community great help to be there and forward information to the outside world.

You can kindly show me the way to the coterie so that I can "post anyting" here:) It is a community service in need that someone forward the discussion of QQ groups here.

You look the resourceful type, may I ask what other exchange services do you use in China, besides being an old user of BTCChina and what do you think of them?


That's very helpful information (if true). Forgive me being naive, I failed to follow the causation: you said "This is why BTC China introduced the zero fee policy." Why DDoS attack leads to zero fee policy?

Say, DDoS attack is frequent and targeted many, that means the operational cost of everybody are higher, which means everybody should raise their fee.

Or are you saying DDoS takes competition to the next level, and BTCChina considers itself a survivor, and thinks it advantageous to have a death-fight-for-all arena and brining the fight to the next-next level?

In the latter case I am not so confident they can do it (the survival). I am a survivor in China and I have seen such hubris before.


I filed issues on Mt.Gox a lot of times (july to oct 2013) and they always respond in a day, although if it is about withdraw they never could carry the action (I waited 3 months). I tried to reach BTC China on the QQ (2days ago) and waited 2 hours and no one talks me back - I could wait a whole day, to test the response time of BTCChina, but waiting on QQ and waiting on email are different. I don't actuallly wait on email or a tracker ticket, I send an email and pack my bag and go. While QQ is an instant messenger - and their "Enterprise QQ support platform" is a browser window - couldn't find a way to add support stuff to buddy list, that means I have to keep the browser window open for an answer - in that case 2 hour's waiting is like 2 days waiting for MtGox's email. I really hope BTC China have email address for support. (they do have  email addresses but one remarked 'for business collabration' other remarked "complaint", perhaps I should complain.)

They are not mentioend in the API document - I read every page of it. How did you find them? As I am writing, I searched 'ticker' again in my copy API docs and confirmed it wasn't there.

I second what you say about "The law is VERY clear, however implementation is NOT."


Wooo, not often that picturesque in China any more unless it is about land dispute against government (in which case shooting may still occure -- I know such a case last year and a case 2 days ago, there may be more -- but there is no need to do it midnight, just shoot in the broad daylight). What isn't often known to the west is that land sales (of people's land to real estate developers), not tax, makes up majority of local government income, so there ain't much space to back from such disputes.

In general you know what you are doing, you know who is above you, that's fine, meanwhile you are given a lot of freedom nowadays. Not often needing picturesque lessons - the lessons taught to Google, Apple and the on-going one to Samsung are swift and no blood involved - and the law system often can works to protect the injured if the culprit is not the government or allied with officials.

Anyway, don't anyone interest in the original topic, worry about their trading bot on BTCChina or a collapse of a Chinese major exchange may impact the market? Perhaps I should have posted to speculation forum....

“很多”是什么意思？到底是哪些平台有传言呀。我只在楼下看到GBL被人批评（光见批评找不到上文），没有提到别家呀？还是所有信息都是QQ上的，那么大家都在哪个QQ群呀。我bitcoin两年了，一向跟外国论坛混，因为国内交易量少，如今国内交易量达到世界三分之一，我回头找不到大家都在哪里交流的。

如果我被污陷了，我当然也会希望大家不报案。


时间多长警察就不管？说真的，bitcoin这种事时间多长警察也不愿意管，具体警察管不管还取决于多个因素，比如你的势力及此事的社会影响，还有对方和当地警察的关系等。



真可爱。这样说现在国内社会上有钱的人，都是正大光明地得到财产的？因为得不义之财的都被捉了嘛。

我完全不知道ＧＢＬ是不是骗子，今天读此贴才知道他们存在的。也许他们已经是从所周知骗子，也许不是，我只是坚持逻辑原则，指出楼主逻辑上说不过去的地方－－近几十年国内情绪重，太缺这个“逻辑”了。

In the years I was again and again asked by westerns how the law is in China of this thing and that, when it actually matters not what the law says:) Chinese fellows don't look up the law before they do certain things - they try to predict / influnce the leaders / governing entity's reaction to base their action. In case of virtual currency, it was toleranted by governing entities in China but BTC should not be toleranted when it goes mainstream.

In more detail please kindly read this on why it matters not what the law says - skip to the last paragraph of this post if you are hurrying.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=315380.msg3391728#msg3391728

还是以前就有？感到奇怪。

It is the World's biggest according to the volume it announces, and it is China's safest accroding to their own login page's Chinese header banner (this very page is produced with (IMHO insecure) phpBB, link see below discussion)

1. The frontpage Chinese advertisement is "your trust is much more worthy to us than the trading fee". Sound like a scam, right?

Put it in a Chinese context it doesn't say for sure it is scam, because if you are honest and say why you don't charge, that involve a clause (in grammar sense), whatever that clause is, it is too complicated to market. In Chinese advertising we say Only short-and-simple phrase works (e.g. "Buy this." and not "Buy this because..."). The similiar short suspecious sloan worked before: e.g. alipay's: "Turst made it simple"因为信任所以简单 -- it didn't say why you should trust 马云 Ma Yun's company with your deposite, just that "please simply trust me" - sounds like scam too but turns out not, and it worked better than the competitor's lengthy consumer protection policies.

2. The website is often down and have a lot of technical problems.

The server runs HTTPS, but the redirection from HTTP to HTTPS is often broken. And the primary webserver is also often down, even worse, the email validation link still points to the primary web server www.btcchina.com when it is replaced by secondary web server www2.btcchina.com. Do they have a reason not to use DNS to bring up the second web server (a.k.a. assign the same domain name but different IP address) and not to use a variable in email activation content generation? There are other bugs, e.g. when you login on www2.btcchina.com front page, it authenticates you and redirect you to www.btcchina.com, which is down of course - you have to manually replace www2 with www on the URL to go to.

Consider they have to buy a separate SSL license for www2.btcchina.com, this all feel weird.

3. Could they be faking trade volume?

I always wanted to verify their trade volume with a repeated-inquiry script, but never had the time, but if they fake it or not means a lot to others, this work should be done.

4. Strange API access.

They don't offer API for public access like market price and market depth. This is the only exchange that I know of only offering this to the user as a private feature. (it belongs to private request to check market price), and you can only check market depth, not directly inquire lowest ask and highest bid.

I tested their example python API access code directly from their document, dispite a syntax problem ( should be ) it was denied from my host in NY (US) with a simple "unauthorized" but the same code works on my host in Plano, TX (US).

In general, everything feels weird.

Skip this last minor point if you wish: the API returns 'result' which is a boolean -- the normal way is to either return 'success' which is a boolean, or returns 'result' which may be 'success' (text string). A 'result' as boolean is weird, what do you mean "True" as a result? Is it a success or failure? In Unix a zero/false result is success. This is however found on all Chinese exchanges, perhaps this is a convention among Chinese programmers circle (new to me even that I am Chinese).

5. Their authentication and session management is through a forum software.

This is evident if you check this URI:

https://www2.btcchina.com/bbs/index.php

(or https://btcchina.com/bbs/index.php when they fixed the primary web server)

The security level required by a forum software PHPBB and an exchange is ... different. For example bitcointalk.org uses forum software and was hacked, that didn't spark any worry in bitcoin circle, an exchange if hacked would be a disaster.

6. Their website look like this on my PC. That only demonstrate poor QA:


7. Other technical problems. e.g. when I ask to withdraw bitcoin, I was told to check my mobile phone SMS, and the SMS I receive is this:
'lang_account_sendvcode_withdrawbtc' and there is no code of whatever sort in it. When I feel this is because I defaulted to English before withdraw, I switched to Chinese, and when attempt withdraw I was told in Chinese "System Error, contact System Administrator" (系统错误请联系管理员). A logout-and-login-again works around the problem.

Now I don't have a hard evidence that they have any security problem, but I ask myself: if I see a programmer put his socks and empty coke bottles on his desk, is his code safe and tight? I feel not. And I can certainly feel the socks and empty coke bottles flying around when I use BTCChina. It doesn't even have the look that they wish to run this business for a decade. The more I use it, the more I worry about my money on it. I am withdrawing 10Bitcoin per day (maximum allowed) to withdraw in the coming days. This is not a FUD, because I don't think there are many customers of BTCChina on this forum (also consider they use QQ instant messener for customer service, not even having a support tracker, support form or support email address - typical taste for Chinese, means they probably only have Chinese customers). I wrote because I think people on this forum are interested in knowing what's happening in China - and I wish to have good feedback on my reading.

This can be explained in a very Chinese backround -- it can only start in China in this half of 2013, but I don't have time today to write another 1000 words article, just to give you the briefest information: GC001(Shanghai A-share 204001) at peak was 10%-yearly-return yesterday, and peaked 57%-yearly-return in the last month, that means banks desperately need money, caught unaware of People's Bank of China's tightening policy. It means in China if you have money you can safely lend them to banks (NOT borrowing money from BANKS) and earn so high a profit that you have to risk a lot to earn in the west -- also means as individual if you have money now it is a bad idea to spend them (should invest). Exchanges can do this safe investment (bnaks back it with long-term People's Bank of China's bond), with precise proforlio management you don't even have a delay in your customers cash withdraw.

This special condition lasted since June. If Exchanges are using this strategy, they could have adopted it 4 months ago, so it can even be prudent decisions to change to 0% now. If central bank no longer tighten their policy, you still have a grace period to announce a fee as banks gradually returns you the money.

Above are my speculation. Not a fact, but better than wild guesses floating around.

Besides, the zeitgeist is greed, we believe in monoplay in China, and won't let waste such a chance to grow monoplay.

Lend your money to the banks (not diposite to the banks) and earn rich return (some days 57% annualised), sounds crazy don't you think? Welcome to China. I did exactly this thing, taking money out of Bitcoin exchanges and lending them to the banks, earned my 8% annualised return for a short 3 weeks, and just in these 3 weeks BTC roared from 128usd to 199usd (bitcoin price). Poor decision.

Totally agree. And ICP doesn't imply any government sponsorship.

Intersted. What do you need? I didn't find an email address to drop you a message.

真是中国速度呀。我的MtGox提现已经三个月了，去信询问仍然是“我们队排得很长请理解”。

这位卢说自己是理性判断，文章却用爷爷爸爸上坟开始，投资带感情了，不是理性判断的。他说会涨十倍是因为人有十个手指头，计数自然以十进位，十这个数字说出来最容易。这些都跟理性很远。

True.
Not true. The banks are not lending money now (Oct), they run out of their government-enforced house mortage quota, which is a house price control policy. They buy it with their own money, and the reason they invest is not to earn the dividend, but the faith that the price will roar and their wealth increase. Chinese dream. Roaring Twenties. (my Chinese fellows: Forgive me mention negatives. I know you guys are reading this, 'cause this very discussion is reported back in Chinese online media.)

Your estimation is true, but it is not averaged from all Beijing, just the community where I live what I observed. The news paper report ratios much lower. Chinese news report is sensorted, and they could have averaged areas outside of the metro area into it, or just fake data. Anyway, I don't believe in news paper but I also cannot assure that my observation apply to all Beijing. One thing is for sure, that property price is still rising at accelerating rate.


I don't have a property. At this price only the early buyers could have afforded it. But if I have, I probably won't sell it. A housing bubble burst would cause public rally and GDP get hit, and our government do everything to prevent both (according to the latent contracct between the government and people: government maintain GDP growth and people thus keep roaring 20s dream, thus maintain docile), which translate to that they will maintain house price. A very strong centrol power has much more tools at hand to manipulate economy. In the last 3 decades whoever betted economic failure of our government always lose.

Thank you for having tipped me, whoever you are:)

I assumed BitThink knows Chinese, for he knows much, and that he would need keywords to google for back reference. Now think back I am he one who is naive, using Chinese keywords to expose bitcointalk.org to China's sensorship. So I just replaced some with PinYin -- added PinYin to the onces that are not sensitive.

I love western thinking applied to China: China got the highest number of English learner in the world (aguablly also highest number of English speakers in the world), hearing this overtime, China may change, and there is a good chance it is changing towards something better. And it is always good to have more people like you who follows things happening in China. -- Unless you are hired "womao" who sing praise of death panalty, in that case, I have something to say about the very part of death panalty in your words:


Picture this:
1. BTCChina got hacked.
2. People rally, some lost their life's saving, some accuse BTCChina took it in their own pocket.
3. Our government got smart, decide it is easier to pacify the crowd with accused's blood.
4. BTCChina management foresee 3, and decide it is easier to just disappear with billions of CNY from the traders. If die anyway, better die with some wealth, knowing they will be framed anyway and make no attempt to cleanse their reputation.

So do they deserve death panalty?

I think death panalty can be mooted only if justice is garanteed, and it is so hard to garantee it i in the west, least China.

Petty.

You surly studied a lot on the facts, so much so that you may even been to China or studies China, but your thinking is western. You are thinking on the line that one event leads to another, with a set of rule, not on the line that how leaders will consider the issue. In fact you talk as if the leaders ain't present in the picture.

The essence is: It's people making decision on people's fate. You are thinking whether someone did something wrong. IMHO this is a typical western idea. Please keep talking like that, that helps China be more aware of your way of thinking which would helps us in the end. But things happens in China is thus colored in your view. Wise investors avoids this coloring. You can analyses things with this coloring, but how do you predict things with this coloring?

Let's look at Mr Zeng's case again and see the decision making process. Is he prosecuted because he is not innocent? I took it trivial and I didn't study if he is innocent; there are other frauds going on unpunished. This morning on my way to breakfast my breakfast shop is there no longer, 50 police man lines up blocking the way as the building being torn down. (It is true and it is exactly 2 hours ago, location is east to Xi'ErQi subway station, I was too cowardy to take a picture.) They call it removal of illegal building, but there is another one just next to it untouched. Everybody are illegal, who decided which one to survive? Is it by rule or by the thinking of someone powerful? 吸储 (accept saving from public) is a serious crime (for its potential of public rally), and I am a customer of exactly one of such 'illegal' business which just got an award from local government. Will this company no longer be tomorrow? Will the wheel of fate turn and their leader be in jail soon? Perhaps, that's why they offer 15% yearly return (some do 30% or more). If they collapse I will accept my lose, it is not because it is illegal, but that it is chosen for sacrifice.

In my post I never metiond Zeng is innocent. He sacrified in a power struggle; his innocence or lack of it is irrelevent. Truth is, somebody want somebody dead and he managed it. Perhaps the victim displeased a some powerful leader, or he needs to be out of a bigger picture. Whoever did it has the authority (not lawful authority) to sell the asset of the company and frame him, and even if the central government knows this leader crossed the line by causing public rally (not by being ruthless), the central government cannot punish the leader on the spot, fearing it be taken as a success of defense by the people. The wise memebers in the centrol government may even carefullly remove the leader who sacrified Mr Zeng a few years later after the event, but not on the spot, least that authoritive image be maintained.

Look at the recent scrutiny against Starbuck. Is Starbuck being really too expensive? No, the government is looking for a sign of obiedience, like the obeidience they obtained from BMW, apple and western milk vendors. Just sit and watch the event unfold, Starbuck will folllow the order and lower the price. Obey, you have chance to earn back the money later. If you talk about facts, whether or not Starbuck is too expensive or guilty, you are seeing the woods not the forest.

I am from desert area of China. In school days I used to defend myself with a pen kinfe. I fought my way to Beijing and survived, although my citizenship remains provincial I consider myself lucky. My friend briefly jailed for trying to report the event of Q-i-a-n-Y-u-n-h-u-i. Married raising a kid without own house, I actuallly learned my English from reading Shakespeare and Tennyson. I never had a chance to go to an English speaking country, twice I was denied of visa for flight risk, such is how western system of law and personal freedom entrusts me. Why do I mention this? Our world is different. The opulence the west enjoys, we work hard to gain equal footing. From grass root I know survival and I know it is not easy here. Now China talks loudly about justice-by-law, while to us it is just a fasionable new trend, and other trends has flown before, what doesn't change is that you obey whoever can hurt you without being punished - this rule works everywhere. Admittedly China has gone a long way and now that you are likely to stay out of trouble trying to be law-abiding (unlikely really law-abiding, because they outlawed too many), but you are not so sure, especially in the mine-field of public stability issue like 吸储 (accept saving from public). Our Econimist Mao Yushi 茅于轼 is a public figure. He operates microfinancing for rural development 10 years and in an interview he said that he still dare not 吸储 (accept saving from public) which is the key step for his dream of self-sustaining rural development, and who are you to think you are to enjoy a better fate than a well respected audacious figure like him, whom if prosecuted would backfire PR disaster to China government? If, BTCChina is hacked and stolen beyond what they can cover on their own, and crowds gather together to protest for the lose of their family saving, that converts the event from a tax and license problem to a stability problem, they can't be confident about their petty life. If, for another scenario they are caught in the picture of fight-againt-corruption and someone want a number of money laundry to sacrifice, they can't be confident about their petty life. In both senarios I don't even involve government's attitude towards non-fiat currency. And I am speaking of cmmon sense, BTCChina knows it, it just take some courage to speak it frankly.

Where I live, if you rent 1000 months, you spend enough to buy the house. The news report says a figure much lower than 1000, and they are sensored. So either I live in a very special area of Beijing (could be, because it is greener here and we have elders in the community -- the less valued locations are full of youngsters), or the newspapers are lying. I didn't do a full study of everywhere in Beijing.