I can vote enforce rules to support a 51% attack.
Let me add one more thing. If you did this in a democracy others would have no choice but to be subjected to what you enforced. But with Bitcoin if people don't like the rules you support they can fork off and let you enforce what you will while they continue to use Bitcoin as they wished. Something not possible in a democracy without being under the threat of violence. |
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Last I checked the dictionary that's not voting. They are running the show with everyone else running a client(mining or not), no question, but they don't vote. A vote carries necessary consequences for other, but what miners do with their hashing power does not necessarily have consequences on me. Of course it is voting. I can vote to support a double spender. I can vote to support a 51% attack. Now I likely never would but each miner (well each informed miner, pools = uninformed miners) is voting on which block is accurate representation of the current status of the network. Conflicting views are resolved via hashing power with the majority enforcing the consensus on the minority. There absolutely are consequences for those votes. I guess there's no point. You just aren't capable of looking at things like they really are. It's funny too cause first you tell me it's voting and then you call it "the majority enforcing the consensus". BTW I never said there were no consequences to what rules they enforced I only said that the crucial difference between Bitcoin and a democracy is that those consequences aren't necessarily applicable to me. I can choose to not use Bitcoin and avoid those consequences, something that I cannot do in a democracy without the threat of violence. |
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Please, just stop before you embarrass yourself even more with your lack of knowledge about how the reality really looks like.
The reality is, we will never not have a government. Your inability to comprehend that point is what should be embarrassing. I bet they said the same thing about your precious democracy back when kings ruled the people.  |
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And finally Bitcoin has no similarity with a democracy. None. There is no majority rule. Of course there is it just happens to be 1 hash = 1 vote instead of the more common 1 person = 1 vote (or 1 white land owning citizen = 1 vote) Really? And what does this "vote"(not really a vote) mean for me as a bitcoins owner? Nothing. Everything. If majority of hashing power agree that block reward is 50,000 BTC per block then it is. If the majority of hashing power implements a demurage on your wealth then it happens. If the majority of the hashing power forces a 0.1 BTC min fee for valid tx then it is unavoidable. So yes the votes by hashing power are very important. Now for a Democracy to work the voters must be INFORMED and EDUCATED. Most of the problems with modern Democracies can be boiled down to ignorance of the issues. Life is "good enough" for most Americans in America. Most voters don't feel the need to be informed, or question authority. Even bad legislation isn't bad enough to stir them to action. Our govt has rigged it so most Americans don't pay income tax thus have no direct stake is how the govt wastes money. The nice thing about voting by hashing power is the miners do HAVE a direct stake. Their hashing power has a cost, the future economic value of that hashing power is a direct tangible benefit. Most (maybe not all but most) miners tend to be relatively informed. They are more likely to make decisions that enhance Bitcoin because it enhances their future economic value. If I don't like what you're doing with your hashing I can sell my bitcoins the very next minute and put my wealth into another currency. I really don't see how that is possible in a democracy. In a democracy if you don't like how the majority votes, there's nothing you can do. You have to live under their rules or not live at all. Not so with Bitcoin.
Um ever heard of moving, or convincing the majority to change their mind, or violent overthrow of the govt? I can exchange my Bitcoins for a currency I feel is better aligned with my interests. I can move from my existing country to one where I feel the govt is better aligned with my interests. I can work to change the protocol rules and convince a majority of miners to support those changes. I can work to change the laws of my govt and convince a majority of voters to support those changes. I can attack the Bitcoin network and setup a competing network. I can attack my govt in an attempt to overthrow it and setup a new govt. Typical slave ignorance. I cannot express how infuriating it is for me to read your post. I despise people that think like this. The nice thing about voting by hashing power is the miners do HAVE a direct stake. Last I checked the dictionary that's not voting. They are running the show with everyone else running a client(mining or not), no question, but they don't vote. A vote carries necessary consequences for others, but what miners do with their hashing power does not necessarily have consequences on me. I can choose to not use it. I cannot choose not to live under a law passed by a government without being under threat of violence. A more accurate description of what they're really doing with mining is enforcement of rules as a service not voting on rules. Um ever heard of moving, or convincing the majority to change their mind, or violent overthrow of the govt? And that's similar to Bitcoin how exactly? If I don't want to use Bitcoin I don't need to move or employ violence. I don't need to do anything, I'm left alone. The idea that a democracy owns the people on a piece of land abhors me. It's slavery and you're oblivious to it if you think I have a choice when my only options are to run or to fight. |
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Really? And what does this "vote"(not really a vote) mean for me as a bitcoins owner? Nothing. If I don't like what you're doing with your hashing I can sell my bitcoins the very next minute and put my wealth into another currency. I really don't see how that is possible in a democracy. In a democracy if you don't like how the majority votes, there's nothing you can do. You have to live under their rules or not live at all. Not so with Bitcoin.
That's why we shouldn't have such a bit fucking federal government and states rights are so important. If you dont like what's going on in California, you can move to nevada (like I did). As if that gives you the freedom to keep the fruits of your labor, as if that solves the problem of not being able to own property or a house or a car, as if that solves the problem of legal tender laws, as if that solves the problem of not being free to travel, as if that solves the problem of being forced under threat of violence to get a license for virtually any activity you'd like to offer to the market. Please, just stop before you embarrass yourself even more with your lack of knowledge about how the reality really looks like. |
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"Him and 3 other traders are looking to invest $300,000 in Bitcoin"
WHO are you?
WHY havent you contacted me?
Perhaps the investors were looking for the perfect investment. LadyBytesNow in size=42pt. (the answer to everything) LOL Bruno your harsh words are what keeps me going  To be clear, Yankee, I wasn't dissing you or your company(s). With all these women taking advantage of Bitcoin, I can't seem to keep track of my bearings: Naomi O'Leary; Adrianne Jeffries; Allison; Mousepotato; LadyBytes. ~Bruno~ I know I know!  Love the Ladies that Love Bitcoin We should start a website BitcoinLadies.com I already started the thread prior to you posting this. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75063.0We think alike, you and I What I truly find amazing is that you own a pair of socks identical to mine.  Please take your romance somewhere private. KTHXBYE  |
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And finally Bitcoin has no similarity with a democracy. None. There is no majority rule. Of course there is it just happens to be 1 hash = 1 vote instead of the more common 1 person = 1 vote (or 1 white land owning citizen = 1 vote) Really? And what does this "vote"(not really a vote) mean for me as a bitcoins owner? Nothing. If I don't like what you're doing with your hashing I can sell my bitcoins the very next minute and put my wealth into another currency. I really don't see how that is possible in a democracy. In a democracy if you don't like how the majority votes, there's nothing you can do. You have to live under their rules or not live at all. Not so with Bitcoin. Bitcoin has ZERO similarity with a democracy other than the fact that both are run by people. ZERO, period. |
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Some simply cannot wrap their brain around not having an "old white man" somewhere up high having a final say on anything and everything. Prisoners of the cave!
That is why the 99% movement will fail too. As they should. Those socialistic idiots are completely oblivious to history, completely economically illiterate and completely oblivious to the financial reality of their current lives. Good riddance. |
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I think it would be more accurate to describe a democracy as proportional representation of opinions. Bitcoin is like a democracy with a minority government. The miners are simply casting votes that say "I should get all the Bitcoins!" And by a convoluted process, a ballot is drawn so that someone indeed gets all the Bitcoins roughly every 10 minutes.
How the reward is divided up has nothing to do with rules and forces no one to acknowledge someone's reward if they didn't follow the rules. Also, are you forgetting that political systems are generally shaped by history? If a so-called democracy evolves out of a monarchy, it's likely to have many features of the previous system, such as a large bureaucracy and a police force. Or, more generally: structure. What would democracy be like if it started out with no structure? Or at least a certain bare minimum that is needed to enforce the system?
You are clueless about history and how the American republic looked like right after it's inception. It had 0, yes 0 "features" of a previous system, because there was no previous system. It's the last form of government, the last algorithm that was invented from almost a completely clean slate. People were actually nut just free, but sovereign and owned what they produced. Their privacy was sacred and they could do or own virtually anything that didn't hurt someone else. A far cry from today. What they have today is a gradually corrupted government into a fascist corporatism that evolved because while what little power that the original limited government had, there still was some power to be auctioned off, and guess what, special interest bought it all up and controls it today. The only answer moving forward is not back to the same recipe for inevitable disaster but forward with something new and even more radical. No central government with no power to be auctioned off. Btw I bet you don't even realize that you are a slave today and what it means to be a sovereign and truly free. I'm willing to bet money on it. None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe And Bitcoin, if you didn't realize this, is a tool some slaves are trying to fight back against their masters. |
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American Democracy is an experiment created by an algorithm called the Constitution. It requires constant attention, participation, and minor tweaking along the way whenever someone discovers exploits. I could go on about the analogy between cryptocurrency and democracy, but the point is that I feel that Bitcoin is the key to spreading freedom and democracy everywhere. Maybe freedom based democracy is not the best form of government, but I've never heard of anything better. The same goes for Bitcoin.
Sir, please get your facts straight. Although I'm not a believer in minarchism (limited government), I actually despise democracy and think anarcho capitalism is the best way to structure a society, but I still have to correct you when you make a grave mistake like you just did. The word democracy does not once appear in the U.S. Constitution. Not even once. That "algorithm" was suppose to create a republic, not a democracy but people didn't, as you correctly put it, give it enough constant attention, participation or guarding so through time it's interpretation by people in power changed where today they practically already scrapped the whole thing. Another thing I have to correct you is thinking that freedom and democracy can possibly go hand in hand or be synonymous. Fact is democracy is majority rule, the direct opposite of freedom and actually actively working against it. (I cannot express how much I hate democracy.) And finally Bitcoin has no similarity with a democracy. None. There is no majority rule. There is only the rule of the algorithm everyone voluntarily agreed upon using. Even if miners start using another algorithm, even if the majority of it's users start using a client with another algorithm, no one is forced to use it. Which is something that will get you imprisoned or killed in a democracy. (don't believe me? try calling your precious government and ask if you can renounce your citizenship without taking on another and see what happens) I suggest you start learning the ugly truth about democracy and perhaps research the idea of a peaceful society living in spontaneous order and of which membership is voluntary but requires following a few mandatory but consistent rules if you really want freedom, peace and prosperity. |
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I can't imagine you pulling the probability of a technology "succeeding" based on the current price of one of it's units out of your ass and at the same time anyone taking you seriously, I certainly don't.
I think it's practically impossible to quantify Bitcoin's chances of how Gavin described reaching it's success are because it depends on oh so much more than merely it's current price of a unit, market velocity or transaction volume. It's a technology after all. You can't predict how it will behave in all environments you can't predict all the breakthroughs, you can't predict all the problems, you can't predict all the sentiment changes of it's users. You just can't predict how the world using Bitcoin will look like. All you can do is guess. And when it comes to guesses, your's is as good as mine.
As far as I'm concerned people paying $5 to own a digital key that has the number 1 associated with it in a publicly shared copy of a ledger is already a huge success.
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It's not something to be concerned about because:
- participating in a pool is voluntary
- polls will avoid doing things that will hurt their ROI by driving people away from Bitcoin and destroying it's value
- participants will avoid a pool that does things that will hurt their ROI by driving people away from Bitcoin and destroying it's value
- it's difficult or nearly impossible to hide shady business in Bitcoin because of it's openness
- even if it happened, the majority of the public can start using a fork with honest miners and render the pools irrelevant
Bottom line: Because no one forces anyone to use Bitcoin and because Bitcoin is ultra transparent, anyone who doesn't want to hurt their investment in Bitcoin and return on this investment will do everything in their power to operate honestly and help protecting the protocol against attacks.
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The Euro is a large scale experiment started in the late 1990s. It's still in use in countries where it's a large scale failure.
This. Yep, this a 100times. |
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Just to correct you, because I'm sure you meant this: Its a key to keep the little democracy freedom we can have as we get dependent of the internet.
Democracy != freedom. |
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While the number of cardholders affected is conflicting in the reports, this paragraph alone is the most shocking: U.S. card issuers' total losses from credit- and debit-card fraud is an estimated $2.4 billion per year, according to a Consumer Reports article in June. Including merchants, credit card fraud costs U.S. establishments $52.6 billion annually, according to March 2011 Federal Reserve statistics.
it shows that the banks assume $2.4B in fraud, and push back $50.2B onto merchants. Per year! unbelievable.  Wow that's seriously messed up. |
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Leaving aside the technology, which is pretty amazing in itself, it
also created an ecosystem that is like a pure capitalistic dream
micro-laboratory.
+1 I personally cannot wait for all the stupid idiotic fallacious theories people hold so dearly and were brainwashed to believe are what the reality really is to simply blow up in smoke due to hard evidence provided by the Bitcoin ecosystem a few years down the road. All the moronic deflation-spiral-panic talk, all the free market is unregulated and unconstrained fantasy beliefs and all the money needs a central manager and be 'elastic' or manageable in some other fancy phd named way in order to accommodate a growing economy, all this BULLSHIT someone people make a living on spewing will get destroyed once and for all. I couldn't be more excited about Bitcoin if this was it's only benefit. |
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wtf, I just randomly noticed this, was sure there must be a thread about it already, sure enough  |
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hazek, I quoted your response because my point above speaks directly to it.
I'm sorry but what good does it do me if something isn't law but gets enforced anyway? Nothing. I'm not pissed at this particular law, I'm pissed at statism in general. I can't stand being treated as a slave. |
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That's it, you're getting on my ignore list. It's obvious you haven't the faintest idea how Bitcoin works and you're basically just trolling.
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I'm very close to putting this guy on ignore. |
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