I get the sense that all you folks who are claiming asics will hurt decentralization don't really understand how the crypto works. I think you're just hurt that your current hashing power will be insignificant. Centralization and ASICs are orthogonal, and right now the network is VULNERABLE to the threat of someone making an ASIC and NOT sharing. BFL making an ASIC as early as possible and distributing it to as many people as possible (think jalapeno) is precisely how to make the network more secure. I wish all the 'ASICs are bad' ignorance would stop top-posting to its own echo chamber. Ideally we'd have more than one ASIC manufacturer, and I believe that will come in time. 'til then, I for one am glad BFL is making it less easy for a nation-state ( or even mid-size corporation at current hash levels ) to screw with the history of transactions.
-bgc
Idiot, whos behind BFL? Whos their VC? I didnt say miners falling out of mining game is decentralization.... Its the player behind BFL who can change the network hashrate distribution. Thats the centralization problem. |
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1. They can deliver the performance: Everyone will shoot themselves in the foot. Bitcoin network is no longer being decentralized when big players come in (cough....BFL's VC )
I don't see how them delivering their product = end of decentralization. This is an argument that has gone roundyround, and I think it's a flawed one. Because BFL is the ONLY supplier of such technology. The technology that can change ROI of each customer. Note: i dont say miners are the players. If this ASIC product comes to life, every miners will be basically buying bonds from BFL. |
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Of course if the bfl Asic became too much of a problem one could modify bitcoin protocol just enough so that the ASIC doesn't work or is severely hampered. They are very specific. A fpga can be reprogrammed. An ASIC would be nothing more than a coffee warmer then, literally.
Why are some people seemingly under the impression that ASICs are 'evil' or 'a problem'? ASICs are not the boogeyman. They will be used for mining, just like FPGAs are this year, just like GPUs were last year, and just like CPUs were 2 years ago. They are a natural evolution of an efficient solution for the proof-of-work problem that the bitcoin protocol presents. The fact that someone has the cajones to dump serious capital into development of something like this is evidence that bitcoin is thriving, in fact, growing. This is a good thing for all of us. Yes, the large-scale deployment of ASICs will make GPU (and to a lesser extent, FPGA) mining obsolete. It will drive difficulty up to levels never seen before. That is, mining with GPUs and FPGAs will no longer be profitable. So what? Just like the arrival of GPU mining en-mass heralded the demise of CPU miners. So what? We either chose to embrace ASICs as miners, or we take our profits and GTFO of the mining scene. What may happen is that when ASICs are deployed en-mass, the 'average miner' will have a farm that has 20x the hashrate of what they currently have. So instead of a 5Ghps miner being the 'average', it will be a 100Ghps miner. If that miner has $4k worth of GPU/FPGAs now, he can choose to 'upgrade' and buy $4k worth of ASICs. The difficulty will be 20x what it is now, so 30M instead of 1.5M. Bitcoins will still be $6 (they will still be generated at the same rate so supply remains the same). And this all means that mining profits for the previously mentioned 'average miner' with $4k worth of 100Ghps ASICs will remain the same as they are now. If he is making 3BTC a day with his $4k 5Ghps rig now, he will continue to make 3BTC a day with his $4k 100Ghps ASIC rig. Nothing changes. This is 'evil' or 'a problem' how? It is only a problem for those who are currently invested in GPUs and FPGAs and who don't want to change. Change or die. That's how it's always been. It was the case with the CPU-to-GPU transition, and we are seeing the beginnings of it now with the GPU-to-FPGA transistion, and we have already been warned that an FPGA-to-ASIC transition is looming. No one is forcing us to continue mining, but many of us will. +1 Preach! Comparison GPU is independent with bitcoin market. You can get GPU from many sources. Bitcoin market is so small to AMD (manufracture) that you dont have problem with the supply. Its the same with FPGA. This isnt like CPU - GPU transition, or the GPU - FPGA transition. However with ASIC, BFL is the ONLY one has the technology available (timing is the key here). You must be blind to not see how powerful that is. They will dictate the bitcoin's future. Bitcoin is based on open and decentralized community. |
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In all honesty, bitcoin is in dangerous stage if BFL's ASIC is true.
1. They can deliver the performance: Everyone will shoot themselves in the foot. Bitcoin network is no longer being decentralized when big players come in (cough....BFL's VC )
2. They cant deliver the products, and it turns into the WORST scam ever in Bitcoin history.
Choose one or we should propose a change in algorithm.
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I never understood why miners would shut down their rigs when profitability is low, unless they don't think it (prices) will ever come back up to a profitable level, or they don't have enough cash to pay their electric bills. If profitablility for me = $4.50, and I mine for 10 years at $1/btc, then it rises to $5, I can sell 10 years worth of coins vs 1 week.
example: 50€ mining: 7 BTC 50€ buying: 10 BTC choose aye, but the 50 spent mining continues to bring in BTC while the buying is a one off. Still carefull calculation should be done which ever one chooses, I cannot disagree there. lol  What stopping you from spending money to get mining equipment THEN. Its the bottom line that matters. Some ppl cant do finance at all. |
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Is this the May issue?
When is the June issue coming out?
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Or start a competing company that is better.
American way of business: competition is no good, buy it yo! |
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My knowledge and experience is constantly evolving, If I save my code how will I ever know my true potential if I'm always locked in the past of old problems?  But really, Its all in my head, if i wanted to rewrite the engine I could do it again in about a day(even though the engine took 3 months to build originally) since I've embedded everything to memory it s just better to recall my research and write code in real time so that way I can incorporate my older research with new experience. Ka peesh? ps. now that i think about it im more mad at face book putting in that poclicy when i was finished then the fact that i deleted my source code. |
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I havent checked BAMT for a while,... sorry if this is already covered.
Has anyone successfully run 7970s with BAMT?
Even with latest cgminer? I guess you also need to update to the latest SDK? (is it possible to update SDK in Bamt?)
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Hmm... I wonder if bulanula is associated with this company....
I know its just a joke, but you're giving him too much credit. He would be lucky to be associated with ANY company. I'm 100% sure hes just a kid still asking for allowance. Poor kid probably doesnt have much attention and must rely on forums to live day by day mentally. |
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I didnt follow with the new chipset recently. Can you elaborate more on this?
Or you can link me to what you're saying.
Thanks
Some Z77 boards use PCIe Gen3 PLX switches meaning that in order to use the other slots you need a CPU that has enough PCIe bandwidth (aka Ivy Bridge). An example is Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H. If you check out the specifications for expansion slots, it lists that the third PCI Express x16 slot operates at 4x electrically and is "available only when an Intel 22nm (Ivy Bridge) CPU is installed" since it shares bandwidth with the other two x16 slots. In terms of available PCIe bandwidth from the IB CPU, it would go from 16 lanes → 8/ 8 when the first two are filled → 8/ 4/ 4 when all three x16 slots are occupied. So it should be able to do 3-way SLI if Gigabyte got certification from Nvidia. Then this isnt an issue with mining then. I thought the slot is disabled comepletely. |
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The only issue with that MSI board is that you're going to need an Ivy Bridge processor in order to utilize the other PCIe x16 slots. The cheapest are around $200 on Newegg. Not that great of a deal.
I didnt follow with the new chipset recently. Can you elaborate more on this? Or you can link me to what you're saying. Thanks |
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ok, report is here: good news: fixed all small bugs on the present Lancelot PCB, waiting for heat-sink sample for a final check. will push it to production stage. that means Lancelot will come out in batch in ~3 weeks.  bad news: bitsteam build meet with some difficulties. no ETA can be estimate.  should i make Lancelot as a hardware platform only? you know there are a mass of 3-rd party mining bitsteams, and running really fast. is it good for me to sell Lancelot at a extreme low price and cooperate with those bitsteam makers?  Lancelot have the best power module(14A continuous and 25A peak, 85% efficiency, for each FPGA) and encryption support (eFuse key storage and volatile memory key storage). and opensourced. about the mining ASIC: it's really easy to make a mining ASIC, but hard to make a "good" mining ASIC. that's my point of view. PS: please feel free to discuss or off topic in my thread. i'm a chinese and in chinese forums, all threads are off topic. it's a usually situation for me. If you have difficulty with the bitstream, you should work with third party bitstream a deal. And ship Lancelot in a complete working package. Thats the only solution. If you're shipping bare card there will only be a handful of customers. You need to act quick because mini-rigs are already shipping. If the end product doesnt result a margin that you expected, its wise to cancel it. Dont rush to production stage without having the bitstream issue sorted out. Also, i already see your expected price of the Lancelot to be a bit high. |
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Fairly sure it's 17 x whatever mhs the cards run at. (1400?)
EDIT: 17 x 1520mhs according to gigavps's 103 ghs across 4 rigs.
How did you go off of a old thread if this is what you said earlier? You didnt count them right. |
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I've heard they don't allow cancellations on the Mini-Rig orders (just what's been posted around here, though, nothing official). It's just the Singles they'll allow you to cancel if they don't ship within their guaranteed time.
if u pay via paypal or bank transfer u can cancel anytime (to my knowledge just tell pp or your bank to get the money back)  This is a joke? Kid, go ask your bank to see for yourself. |
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they actually do have them posted on their website now smoov.
Ok, that's good then... I haven't checked lately. Thanks for that -- Smoov no worries. i too was doubting the validity of the post until i saw that. I was going to cash out a few of my coins, to pick up another low-hash gpu, which would double what my current 2 gpu's are doing (total ~160MH/s)... but, if the price point on that small 3.5GH/s one holds, I'm going to hold out and get that instead. That single they're currently selling, was priced too high for what little I've been able to mine, but that 3.5 asic? ... yeah, I got enough for that. I'm hoping that it isn't just hype. If it turns out that it was, I'm gonna be pretty pissed. -- Smoov LOL, if you have any business sense you would know by time the SC single is available for "PREORDER" your GPU would have been paid off |
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yep, but you know... these fpgas are tooooo small... You should apply to work for BFL. They're looking for a Mandarin speaking engineer in Asia. Please work for them. NEVER EVER First, never say never ....oops Second, we want you to work for BFL so we can have correct info and not BS crap. I'm sure they cant do jack to you because you're in China. Work for them so you can build better products *HINT HINT* |
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Idiot, Amazon dont make money on selling hardware. They make money on services ....aka selling books thro Kindle.
Appl doesnt make money on your I-products... They make money on App Store.
BFL loves idiots like you.
/thread
What's your point? BFL doesn't have an app store, they only sell hardware. My point is exactly that. As someone pointed out, it does not make any financial sense for such price point. Its not like they can have trillions chips to ship. Anyone thinks the low price point is to completely conquer the market is idiot because they can conquer the market selling at 95% of the competition. remember those are prices for SPECULATED performance specs. Look what happened to the single and minirig There are 2 main way to conquere the market, only one is used but never both: + Lowest price point OR + Most technology breakthro in your products line. So yes, they're bluffing to fool idiots. Apparently based on your posts you consider everyone to be an idiot. In case you were curious: ad hominem You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits instead of engaging with their argument. Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes. The desired result of an ad hom attack is to undermine one's opponent without actually having to engage with their argument or present a compelling argument of one's own. You got reading comprehension? I dont believe any of their bluff. And i'm sure i'm not the only one. You, on the other hand ..... |
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yep, but you know... these fpgas are tooooo small... You should apply to work for BFL. They're looking for a Mandarin speaking engineer in Asia. Please work for them. |
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I would like to point out that BFL did NOT apologize immediately. They apologized after moderator DiabloD3 posted on that thread.. Do you research man. BFL's punishment is well deserved.
I disagree, it isn't deserved. I did do my research - you just have a different notion of what counts as "immediately." Sure, they apologized after a number of members, including DiabloD3, called them out for the stupid remark. Still, it didn't take them long to apologize, and the mature thing to do is to accept their apology without childish retaliation. Look, there are lots of reasons to be unhappy with BFL business practices, and they are being picked apart over this to the nth degree in various threads on this forum, but this doesn't justify creating a sticky thread over one unfortunate comment they made. If any other member on this forum had made this comment, it certainly wouldn't have lead to this sticky. So BFL is obviously being overly punished for this simply because one or more of the mods doesn't like them and is blowing the whole event out of proportion. If you want to attack BFL, stick with the real reasons for this - i.e. their business practices - and not one stupid comment they made and apologized for. My point is, they shouldn't be overly punished for the stupid comment just because there are *other* reasons to be unhappy with them. Attack them for the other reasons and let the stupid comment go. BFL is not a regular member. It's a company and that user BFL is representing Butterflylabs inc. That's why it got stickied. Do you think it is appropriate to talk shit in other manufacturer's thread? No, it is not. I say this again: They apologized after DiabloD3 hinted them to stfu. You have different rules when you are representing a company. I agree with the punishment. Its not the first time BFL handles the forums unprofessionally. Yeah, I agree with you that a company should be held to a higher standard. But it's still a single individual making the post, and individuals can make mistakes. Whoever posts for them made a poor decision, realized this after it was pointed out to him, and apologized. That should be enough. The remark was of course not appropriate, but it is a daily occurrence on this board that someone does something inappropriate (and much more inappropriate in many cases), but this doesn't doesn't result in a sticky punishment. I still think it's way overdone to create a sticky about it. IMO, the sticky seems to be more motivated by hatred for BFL than out of a sense for just punishment for their infraction, which compared to what else goes on in this forum, was fairly minor, even for a company. The sticky seems inappropriate to me, but at this point I'm not sure what else to say about it - I'll just let others chime in with their opinion, and the mods can do as they see fit. |
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