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2561  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 22, 2015, 07:46:48 AM
Bottom line for those not following or understanding the discussion -

DO NOT deposit here until/if several issues are cleared up.

WITHDRAW your funds on deposit here ASAP.

gogo- Although we put Anonibet in the NR category until all problems are addressed. I think it's premature to ask for players to withdraw funds. All books have a hiccup now and then. There haven't been any withdrawal problems with the exception of two disputes.

Anonibet may be wrong in both cases. We shall see and I hope that there are transparent. You have seen a lot of books go under and these two problems look nothing like the problems that books had that ran with our funds.

Before those books went under there were many problems and delays with payouts, not just two disputes.
2562  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 22, 2015, 07:36:17 AM
Books still offer 3-team parlays on free plays and it still ins't +EV. It is simply optimal strategy for getting the most out of the bonus. Correlated parlays requires special skill set known to only some players. The situation here is vastly different:

At Anonibet no matter how square the better is, no matter who it is that is making the deposit, every deposit they make that gets a bonus that +EV. It requires degeneracy / lack of knowledge, foolishness or whatever you want to call it to ruin the EV, but it starts off that the mere action of depositing at Anonibet is a +EV action. That would be if they actually offered what they advertised they do. See the problem?

Edit to add a PS. It feels like we're secret agents using these handles lol. You know the people that made that comment, one you've debated with extensively in the past.

Many know optimal strategy on free plays whether it parlay or huge ML play. Many also know the subsets and correlation needed for +ev. Approximately 30% in the NFL without looking at total/spread. Most of this is discussed on sports betting forums.  

lol at the secret agent comment.


Anonibet and others - Once again I apologize for getting off topic and will delete if asked. I guess my point is that Anonibet didn't give away the house with their bonuses although there are definitely problems that need to be addressed.
2563  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 22, 2015, 07:16:05 AM
Assuming an efficient market at 1.90 how would you exploit a 10% sticky bonus with a 1x using lessor amount of risk/reward?


Anonibet - I apologize for getting off topic. If you would like me to delete my posts, I will do so.


You don't even need to exploit it, it is +EV betting it straight.

This is not a traditional sticky bonus. All bets use bonus cash first. You are getting better than even money effective odds on 1.90 odds two-way markets.

Let me explain: deposit 100 get 110. Bet 110 on 1.90 it returns 209. You are now up 109 more than the 100 deposited and have met the full rollover.

Of your 209, 10 is a bonus that must be lost before it is cashed out. Now bet just that 10 over and over again in the smallest increment possible until it has all been lost (remember bonus cash is used first). on a 1.90/1.90 2-way efficient market you will average a loss of the 5% advantage the bookmaker has built into the line, the rest will have converted to bonus winnings. Thus all said and done you lose 0.5 of that 10 that was bonus.

So on an efficient market you deposited 100, and get 209 if win. Half the time you win so your expectation is +4.5 profit. In converting all the sticky bonus to cash just straight betting you lose 0.5 of that, bringing the expectation to 4. Therefore just betting an efficient market priced 1.90 per side, under their terms you expect for every 100 starting deposit amount to have 4 in profit (that's the EV of using it at 1.90/1.90 no matter how bets are broken down, you change variance but not EV, which is 4 per 100 deposited).

The above requires no exploitation, or anything else. It is purely free money they are handing out. Obviously that stuck out as a major red flag because it is offered on all deposits. Seeing it has no rules, and a what appeared to be a rogue term, I decided to inquire to make sure I had this correct.

As far as exploiting it, there are better uses. But as is this is a big risk. I can't help but feel this was a gotcha situation. Since I've become aware of real life complaints about this. In my private group, this was discussed. Smart players there mentioned anyone sharp that got caught by this is foolish and how they cashed out and stop betting when they seen this promo because figured either site was disappearing soon or would be using it in the way I suggested they could use it.
 At one time fiat books allowed free plays that could be used in 3 team parlays. Books allowed correlated parlays. Multi accounting for bonus abuse. There are many ways to exploit books putting the player in a +ev situation.  It's a cat and mouse game and doesn't necessitate a book going under.

The dispute in question is 5 BTC. This is far from breaking a book in existence since 2011. If this was a new book, then it's a different story.

I'm in no way trying to defend Anonibet here. It's just a discussion.
2564  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 22, 2015, 05:54:47 AM
Assuming an efficient market at 1.90 how would you exploit a 10% sticky bonus with a 1x using lessor amount of risk/reward?


Anonibet - I apologize for getting off topic. If you would like me to delete my posts, I will do so.
2565  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 22, 2015, 05:45:27 AM
At risk we're going to get off topic, as again the issue isn't in specifics.. the bonus cash is bet first. While it has a condition of a sticky bonus, in traditional terms sticky bonuses are reserve funds that are used only after the balance has been lost. You get a chance on going bust to use the sticky funds to win your way back to the positive. If so, can cash out the difference of cash less sticky remaining, but only if have met the generally large rollover terms. In general use, these have been the lowest value type of bonus. It has similarity to free play also, except bonus stake is returned, and then is used again as first stake on next bet. Therefore it functions much more like a cash bonus with a very minor caveat attached than it does free play or sticky. Again though issue isn't so much with the specifics, but is as explained in write up provider earlier.

damakhun - You can bet the entire amount, deposit + bonus. You don't have to wait until the deposit money is lost when using a sticky bonus. The only thing is that you can never withdraw that bonus.

Cash bonus - Your money
Free play - The free play money is not yours, only winnings.
Sticky bonus - You can always use the bonus amount to bet, but can never withdraw that amount.

I agree that the bonus rules definitely need to be defined.
2566  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 22, 2015, 04:12:38 AM
Some forum "members" are always attacking Anonibet and try to discredit us as they did on several occasions in the past. You can look at their past messages and you will notice what they are trying to achieve.

Just to be clear here I'm not one of those members. I moderate the sports betting subforum at 2+2 as a volunteer, have my own gambling information websites, and have in the past written for some of the biggest sites. I researched Anonibet starting without any negative bias. I however find your model very concerning. If you wish to see a write up can find it here: http://sportsbettingsites.org/news/anonibet-rated-3421/ . Take it as an attack, or take it as feedback up to you. Fair gambling involves having clearly defined terms that are fair for the site and the player, that protect them both. Your bonus terms / policy are at best careless, at worst something else. IMO players deserve to be warned.



With fiat books they take the lessor of the risk/reward. If you risk $500 to win $5, then $5 would go to the rollover requirement. The bonus rules at Anonibet are a hybrid cash/freeplay or sticky bonus.
2567  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 21, 2015, 09:17:26 PM
I just had contact with Anonibet. I'm hoping that we are all just jumping to conclusions. Anonibet has been in business since 2011 without any payout problems, outside of unfounded rumors. So far this is what I have ascertained.

1. One player's account has been locked as Anonibet is looking into a possible phishing problem. I don't think that Anonibet lacks funds to pay out any account.
2. There is one account that is being looked into concerning bonuses. I have not seen the account as of yet but expect so see it soon.
3. Deposits were manual for a little while.
4. Outside of what has been mentioned above, there have not been any withdrawal problems.
5. Come Monday, customer service chat will be open 24/7.
2568  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 21, 2015, 09:14:49 PM
I just had contact with Anonibet. I'm hoping that we are all just jumping to conclusions. Anonibet has been in business since 2011 without any payout problems, outside of unfounded rumors. So far this is what I have ascertained.

1. One player's account has been locked as Anonibet is looking into a possible phishing problem. I don't think that Anonibet lacks funds to pay out any account.
2. There is one account that is being looked into concerning bonuses. I have not seen the account as of yet but expect so see it soon.
3. Deposits were manual for a little while.
4. Outside of what has been mentioned above, there have not been any withdrawal problems.
5. Come Monday, customer service chat will be open 24/7.

edit - I did not see Anonibet's post above prior to this post here.
2569  Economy / Gambling / Re: Anonibet Official Thread - Gold Member of Bitcoin Foundation on: February 21, 2015, 08:54:33 PM
Peeps Place thread just dropped Anonibet's rating to "NR" (Not Rated), removing them as his top "A" rated book.

This is even more meaningful than if any other site had dropped their rating, as (those who have followed this for awhile are aware) Peeps has a "special relationship" with this book - or had, as it appears that is over.

Withdraw if possible all your funds from Anonibet asap.
You can always re-deposit if things get straightened out.

gogo- I wouldn't say that there is a special relationship between peepsplace and Anonibet, nor has the relationship changed. That was a rumor that was spread by another book.

The rating's guide thread is a player's advocate thread. Due to the recent occurrences at Anonibet, it's best to take a wait and see attitude.
2570  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 21, 2015, 08:41:16 PM
From Anonibet
Quote
PHISHING ATTEMPT SUSPICOIN

Dear customers,

One of our customer has reported us an email "supposedly sent" by Anonibet asking for his Localbitcoins.com login credentials. It looks like a phishing attemp, please never give your login credentials to anyone.

Our Live Support Agents will never ask your login credentials on Live Chat or via email.

Anonibet never asks such information from its customers and does not email its customers to requests any information regarding their accounts details. Anonibet does not reset passwords unless requested from the customers themselves.

As of Monday 23rd February Anonibet Live Chat Support will be available round the clock 24 Hours 7 days a weeks. Please use our Live Chat Support for all inquiries.

Regards,

Anonibet
2571  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 21, 2015, 08:30:52 PM
"A" rated books
NitrogenSports A- (2012)

"B"rated books
Anonibet B (2011)
Betcoinsports B (2013)
Casinobitcoin B (2013)
Cloudbet B- (2013)
Jetwin B-(2013)

"C" rated books
BetVIP C (2014)
BetOWI C- (2014) *

"D" rated books
Betmoose D+ (2014)
Fairlay D+ (2013)
Roadbet D+ (2012)
OLEBitcoin D+ (2013) *
BTCBook D (2014)

"F" rated books
BetCas F
Coindrafts (2014)
Webetcoins F (2014)
Bitbm F
Bitcoinsport F
Bitcoinlivebets F
Coinbet F
Gobetgo F (2013)
Sportbet.im F
StakeBTC F
Blockbet F
Bitbook F

NR
Anonibet (2011)
1player
7Bit
altbetfair
Asianconnect88 - No longer accepts bitcoins.
Betabit
Betbanks
Betbtc
Betmoose
betxcp
BetXCP
Bitcoinvegas
Bitesports
Coin178
Cointeller
Darkbet
Evolvebets
finalstake
Flutterclub
Oddschange (2015)
Planetofbets
Pocketrocketscasino.eu/sports
Predictious
Premiumtradings
tdsports
xbet.io
2572  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 21, 2015, 08:26:44 PM
As gogo pointed out there are some complaints going on with Anonibet as far as delay in payments. It seems to stem from bonuses that were given out and manual reviews. I'll keep you updated and take them off the rating guide until further review.
2573  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 21, 2015, 07:40:11 PM
3 more special free rolls running every day for a while at Nitrogen. Looks like I may have posted bad info above since hands may change.

8pm EST (100 hands- .1 btc)
9pm (300 hands- .5 btc)
11pm (600 hands- 1 btc)
2574  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 20, 2015, 06:50:00 PM
Poker information may be posted from the sportsbooks with poker rooms. Lots of free rolls today at Nitrogen.

Quote
Play 20 hands of poker and you can play in the .1 btc prize pool freeroll starting at 8p ET/ 5p PT/ 01:00 GMT
Play 100 hands of poker and you can play for the .5 btc prize pool freeroll which also starts at 8p ET/ 5p PT/ 01:00 GMT
Play 300 or more hands of poker, you can play in the big 1 btc prize pool freeroll starting at 11p ET/ 8p PT/ 04:00 GMT

For the month
Quote
Nitrogen Poker is now offering more than 48 freerolls each and every day this month!
2575  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 20, 2015, 12:32:41 AM
Quote
I'm not going to put Coinbet on our recommended list at this time
2576  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 20, 2015, 12:24:38 AM
Is this list from the OP still good? Have any of these books "fallen out of favor" or left people without payment?

No good books have gone down but some of the books that were warned about took our money. Bitcoinlivebets was one of them and they were rated high at the other sites. Also warnings were given on StakeBTC and Coinbet.

Here were some warnings:

Quote
2) bitcoinlivebets.com didn't pay you so you rated them D-

Which one is it ?


I have nothing against Ryan or his ratings so I try to stay away of any criticism since it's nice to have multiple rating guides.

bitcoinlivebets is a very shaky book. They have problems on almost a daily basis and automation is never fully working. Each person has different reasons for playing at a book. I think that bitcoinlivebets is at the top of the list of the next book to go under although I hope it's not the case.

Quote
StakeBTC opened to forum members on January 18, 2014, although they have been open to a private group for a longer time. StakeBTC has a maximum bet of 30 BTC and many seem to play with StakeBTC for this reason. Others advertise higher limits but rarely is it available. There are a lot of good things about StakeBTC that I don't even want to mention at this time because of one point. When a sports book offers a 100% bonus with a 2x rollover, that's a huge red flag. The only thing keeping StakeBTC from being a "F", because of that bonus, is that they haven't had one complaint as far as payouts. StakeBTC opens at "D"
2577  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 19, 2015, 06:29:38 PM
Thanks tony and damakhum....................Please keep the input coming from all.
2578  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 19, 2015, 07:50:39 AM
Most of the fiat books use the lessor of risk/payout for rollover requirements.
2579  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 19, 2015, 07:48:45 AM
Anonibet is catching a lot of heat and may be wrong, in this current case, to be seen, but one of the reasons they were rated so high is that in my dealings with Michael, he has been 100% honest.

One person was overpaid 15 BTC by Anonibet.  When the player posted about it, Michael took full responsibility for the mistake. Michael said that the player wasn't a scammer. After that the player did pay Anonibet back. the player made a bet for 15 BTC and said if it won that he would pay back Anonibet. The bet won.

Anonibet didn't even bring the case to the forum. The player stated that he was overpaid.

Peeps. IMSO they are rated way too high. Most all the other popular bitcoin books, same as fiat currency ones, have comprehensive betting rules by sport. Anonibet has only a very small section in their terms and conditions that cover just the very basics. They offer a bonus that for all intents and purposes is like a 10% cash bonus on all deposits with only a 1X rollover. This bonus has no rules associated with it. The 1X rollover can be done at -20000 odds even. There is nothing else saying what is and what is not allowed. Yet, their only rules is they can adjust balances after the fact retroactively under their own discretion and with no explanation to remove past winnings. Some like their in-play betting platform but other sites use the exact same provider at lower margins (everything is a match just Anonibet has higher juice). Their prematch odds are also not very good. Those can be offset by bonus, but the bonus has major issues in the lack of terms followed by a catchall term.

Michael might be a great guy. Their company could want to operate fair. They however do not at least in print / policy conform to the standards of fair gambling that the oldest fiat currency books adhere to, and other bitcoin books use. It might be due to lack of experience, but that would be a concern too. I know they are the oldest for bitcoin, but some of these other books have management with decades in the sports side of the industry. I think even B- for them is too high, but could maybe swallow it. Having them rated higher than Nitrogen, Cloudbet and Casinobitco.in I don't think is wise.

BetCoin should also be no more than C or C+ and on watch imo. By watch I mean it could go either way with further adjustments from there.
Thanks for the input. Why do you think that Betcoin should be downgraded? I really like them.
2580  Economy / Gambling / Re: #1 RATINGS of SPORTSBOOKS. Please post any payout delays. Input wanted from all. on: February 18, 2015, 11:34:54 PM
We have some big announcements! We have expanded our sport section tremendously. We are still a betting exchange - so we don't offer specific odds, instead they are found by the market. However, we partner with some market makers that guarantee to offer very good odds (better than pinnacle) and we have cut the fees for sport bets from 2% to 0.00%.
We do not offer any bonuses - instead we entirely focused on cutting costs and with this setup we are confident that we offer the best odds available.
It is possible to place bets without an account - we only take a 0.5mBTC fee for the transaction. With accounts even this fee is waived.

Check it out here: https://www.fairlay.com/event/category/soccer/

We are happy to get feedback!

@Peeps Place - looks like fairlay is currently under NR AND under D.
Corrected. Thanks for checking in.
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