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2561  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1] on: January 16, 2013, 10:01:09 PM
It would not be hard to create a simulated network Test rig with a couple of servers
It would take all of 5 minutes on 1 server to setup a private testnet for any number of devices using GBT.
2562  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1] on: January 16, 2013, 09:54:31 PM
For an 'open source' project, Avalon is disappointingly light on details on the avalon-asic.com site,
Open source doesn't mean you just get the details/source. It means customers get it with the product.

but as I understand things, the devices have at least the capability of being stand-alone units.  That means they have probably a full linux distro*.
IIRC, someone said it runs Openwrt.
2563  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Purchasing bitcoin ASICs - The Manual on: January 16, 2013, 02:25:09 AM
I figure...

the Jump from CPU to GPU mining

Difficulty jumped 2000 times higher (1500+ to 3200000+ difficulty, has been higher)

Price jumped over 250 times higher  (0.06c to $14.30, has been much higher)

over 15 months (October 1st to today)

We're going to see another jump like that moving from GPU to ASIC.

Plan for it.
Difficulty does not influence Bitcoin price.
2564  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Purchasing bitcoin ASICs - The Manual on: January 15, 2013, 10:56:10 PM
I'm sitting here thinking we're going to see another round of 5830's-paying-themselves-off-in-a-week-like profitability.

Almost missed the boat last time.

This time I'm at the front of the line. Smiley
Hope so, because there will probably only be 1 or 2 of those weeks Wink
2565  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping / change of owership / refunds etc. on: January 15, 2013, 08:42:15 PM
Mine also hit this morning.

BTW - For those idiots who are complaining that they should get the same # of BTC  back...
NOV 25 NOV 26 BTCFPGA 3155140269 NY  Foreign Currency¯USD 2,229.98 Exchange rate¯1.023363   $2,282.08
Jan 12, 2013    BTCFPGA 3155140269 NY  2229.98 USD @ .9566       2,133.36

This is the standard for any exchange between currencies.
That's a bit much. According to some earlier posts, they didn't receive the BTC through a payment processor, and it wasn't converted to USD. So by refunding a smaller portion, they're profiting off of their failure to deliver the purchased products as promised. I certainly don't think anyone who wants all their BTC back is an "idiot."

Even if that was the case, they won't be profiting off their failure to deliver, they would be profiting off their choice to keep BTC as opposed to selling it, and benefiting from the appreciation of their asset in the mean time.
And why should they get that profit, when the asset doesn't belong to them?
But it does. You paid them with it; it's no longer yours. What kind of new insanity is this?
2566  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping / change of owership / refunds etc. on: January 15, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
Luke-Jr and regular, I see your point, but I disagree. I never considered pre-ordering ASICs, simply because it didn't seem to me like BFL or bASIC had the experience and ability to give it a try without much risk. Previously delivered FPGAs were a weekend hobby compared to the scope of delivering an ASIC. This involves serious engineering, know-how, project management, accounting and customer service, outsourcing,  coding. There was no way the likes of Inaba and Sony had what it takes to deliver within a reasonable time frame. In fact, I don't do business with those sorts of characters, even if they delivered i  the past. There was no way Tom had what it takes (for different reasons). Not sure about the Avalon and BitFountain teams - at least they each seem to have a team.
BFL is certainly more than Sonny and Josh (I can think of at least 3 other people there), and I'm pretty sure Tom outsourced the actual ASIC design, so it's not like they're any less teamwork than the others.
2567  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: BFGMiner: modular FPGA/GPU & X6500, overclk/fans, GBT, RPC, Linux/PPA/Win 2.10.2 on: January 15, 2013, 06:43:41 PM
I was curious - have you received an asic from any of the companies that plan to release them for use in adding support to BFGMiner or specs at least?
Haven't received any yet, but will be receiving boards from Butterfly Labs, ASICMINER, and bASIC when they're ready.
Avalon and Deepbit don't seem interested in third-party development this time around, so support for those will likely depend on someone else donating a device or maintaining the code.
2568  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping / change of owership / refunds etc. on: January 15, 2013, 04:25:27 PM
got my chargeback today too.

Until BTC has more protection for buyers, I don't see myself ever buying any big-ticket items with them in the future.  It seems scams are just too easy.

Ah, the lost art of due diligence... You don't need "more protection" - you can protect yourself by treating bitcoins much like you treat cash. You wouldn't just go to a strange neighborhood and hand a couple of thousands of dollars to a hand sticking out from a hole in the wall, the wall having a spray-painted advertisement "will build and deliver advanced, customized, integrated circuits"...? Or would you?

Paying cash to the likes of Sony and Tom - even ngzhang and friedcat, who so far appear much more credible - based solely on the promise to develop and deliver a rather complex product.

The best way to protect yourself when paying cash and cash-like bitcoins is to do research. Get to know the project, get to know the people. Are they trustworthy? Are they competent? Are there any red flags?  Alternatively, just pay a nanny (credit card company) to take care of you: she will gladly do it for a fee. If you are smart, you won't even be paying the fee - they'll find less-then-smart customers to cover it for you.
While I agree friedcat seems credible, everyone else do as well - and have delivered on FPGA products. While I was skeptical of BFL back in 2010, 2 years later I see no reason not to trust Sonny or anyone else there. I've known Tom since before he started BTCFPGA, and likewise trust him to do his best to deliver - and make good on refunds if he can't. Not much personal connection with ngzhang, but his Icarus works okay and he definitely seems to be into Bitcoin hardware for the long haul. I can't say I really see any reason for your graffiti analogy: the ASIC vendors are all basically trustworthy.

P.S. I have no reason to doubt Tycho/Deepbit either.
2569  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Purchasing bitcoin ASICs - The Manual on: January 15, 2013, 03:43:08 PM
8. ASIC startups strongly oppose full bitcoin refunds as they are a big profit source. Firstly, because bitcoin is still unregulated as a currency and as a method of payment and secondly, because receiving bitcoins and later refunding in $, gives those companies free option call to profit from BTC /$ exchange rates differences between payment and refund dates. Of course, what is profit for them is a loss for you!
This is nonsense; I'm sure every vendor is more than willing to refund purchases made with Bitcoins. Bitcoins are just as regulated as any other currency. No ASIC vendor is selling in Bitcoin units, just USD; your ability to pay in another high-volatility currency does not give it a set price in that currency! What the ASIC vendor does with their income, including gambling or investing in Bitcoin volatility, is entirely up to them so long as they honour their agreements with their customers (including their refund policy).
I think he's referring to the discussion that's been going on in the BFL and bASIC forums where people have received refunds for the amount of BTC equivalent of the USD amount of their product, rather than the actual BTC amount they paid months ago when the exchange rate was lower.

Ex. You buy BFL SC Single a few months ago for 111BTC (when the exchange rate was $12). Now when you order your refund, you get 95.2BTC (because the exchange rate today is $14).
Yes, my point is that anyone expecting anything else is an unreasonable idiot.
2570  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Purchasing bitcoin ASICs - The Manual on: January 15, 2013, 01:21:01 PM
We all must draw our conclusions from what has happened to bASIC "customers". I was quite active recently on this forum and I think I've spotted quite a large number of problems. Let me try to help you avoid future troubles following step by step considerations below:

1. There is nothing wrong with investing in ASIC startups as soon as you understand that you are investor, not customer!
The only new company in the ASIC round was ASICMINER, which is not (yet) selling products or taking preorders. Most of the other vendors (BFL, BTCFPGA, and ngz) have shipped successful FPGA products. Deepbit operates a popular mining pool. Furthermore, last I checked both BFL and BTCFPGA clearly stated that they were not using customer money for the actual product expenses. So, while it is true that any purchase of mining equipment is an investment, it is only an investment in your own mining business, not necessarily in the vendor producing it. bASIC customers were/are in fact customers.
2. There will be a lot of companies manufacturing ASICs, including bitcoin ASICs, by the end of 2013. It is just another question how successful their products will be and to what extend their specification will correspond to what was originally announced. Most of products will be complete failures.
Depends on what you mean by a "failure". Most likely all 5 vendors will deliver a working product, but none of those products will break even any time soon. I don't expect to see any room for new vendors to get into the market without overcoming a huge barrier of entry.
4. Get rid of all your unprotected investments! Risk/reward ratio for unprotected investments is very unreasonable at this stage. Unprotected investments are all payments you made to an ASIC startup other than with a credit card not older than the 3 months chargeback window.
5. You should contact your credit card issuing bank and find out what is the maximum period of a payment you can request chargeback for! Be absolutely confident about that! About three months is the standard but your might be different.
6. You can get rid of an unprotected investment either by selling it or by requesting a refund from the ASIC startup company. I'm not aware of a third method.
7. Of all the unprotected investments the worst possible one is paying with bitcoins. I understand that this a bad advertisement for bitcoins but those are the merchants that refuse full bitcoin refunds that make it to appear that way! This should not be allowed by the bitcoin community if we want bitcoin to be addopted as a commercially viable currency!
Fraud is not something special to ASIC vendors (and I have no reason to suspect fraud from any of them). People using Bitcoin need to learn to adapt to these situations, whether that means escrow or insurance or whatever else.
8. ASIC startups strongly oppose full bitcoin refunds as they are a big profit source. Firstly, because bitcoin is still unregulated as a currency and as a method of payment and secondly, because receiving bitcoins and later refunding in $, gives those companies free option call to profit from BTC /$ exchange rates differences between payment and refund dates. Of course, what is profit for them is a loss for you!
This is nonsense; I'm sure every vendor is more than willing to refund purchases made with Bitcoins. Bitcoins are just as regulated as any other currency. No ASIC vendor is selling in Bitcoin units, just USD; your ability to pay in another high-volatility currency does not give it a set price in that currency! What the ASIC vendor does with their income, including gambling or investing in Bitcoin volatility, is entirely up to them so long as they honour their agreements with their customers (including their refund policy).
9. If the chargeback window is about to close ask for a refund. If refund is not honored by the merchant within 48 hours then contact credit card issuer and request a chargeback!
10. If you successfully got your money back you might want consider paying for a pre-order again.
11. Don't be fooled by someone yelling at you that you'll lose your spot on the queue!
12. Maximum time loss might be couple of weeks. On the other hand, you can win big. If your ASIC is finally delivered you might find out that it does not match the announced specifications. If you are lucky you may have couple of month for finding such discrepancies and still be under the protection of chargeback window!
If specifications are not met, I'm sure your vendor will probably let you know before shipping, and give you the opportunity to request a refund at that time. If you choose to go ahead with the purchase, filing a chargeback at that point is fraud (on your part).
2571  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: BFGMiner: modular FPGA/GPU & X6500, overclk/fans, GBT, RPC, Linux/PPA/Win 2.10.2 on: January 15, 2013, 04:05:06 AM
The GPU mining and API are copied from cgminer - he didn't write them Smiley
And then improved upon...
LJR's advertisement campaign was that he was the one who added FPGA support into CGMiner. Kano is specifically pointing out the GPU and API portions of BFGminer, which were copied from CGMiner. IIRC, LJR hasn't touched those areas of his clone BFGminer all that much, if at all.
Let's not have an argument where there isn't one. With regard to the OpenCL driver and RPC API, there is little different in BFGMiner.
Not to dismiss the bugfixes and minor improvements that are there (or the many driver-independent improvements and fixes), but the bulk of this code is still Con (OCL) / Kano (RPC) as-is.
2572  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping / change of owership / refunds etc. on: January 13, 2013, 10:50:15 PM
So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.
This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.
Agreed.  When you make a purchase denominated in US dollars, it is the equivalent of selling your bitcoins for USD on the spot and then paying those dollars to the vendor.  Unlike what some people on these forums believe, the price of BTC is not guaranteed to go up.  Imagine the shitstorm that would occur if BTC had fallen against the dollar and then Tom refunded people their exact BTC payments.

Avalon made it perfectly clear that when we placed our order it would be as if we were selling our BTC for USD at the price that the order was placed.
That's the default assumption for any site/sale that only shows prices in USD.
2573  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping / change of owership / refunds etc. on: January 13, 2013, 07:45:14 PM
This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

No Luke you're wrong. It is his choice and his risk as long as he is able to deliver what we - the customers - paid. If he never delivers ASICs it's a speculation on the back of his 'customers'. If the BTC price is rising Tom wins, if the BTC price is falling we are loosing. And now it seems that all customer who paid BTC are screwed independant of the BTC price. Tom should have exchanged those funds to USD and maybe spent them to create this damn bASIC chip and not speculate on rising BTC prices!
I'm assuming the credit card purchases are probably enough to cover the expenses.

With this new information the only acceptable choice would be a full BTC refund, a bASIC device or to let him burn like hell! The last point seems to be the most realistic one.
The purchase was in USD. Expecting a higher refund based on the deflation of another currency is irrational.
2574  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: bASIC not shipping / change of owership / refunds etc. on: January 13, 2013, 04:29:43 PM
So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.
This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).
I think it is highly likely he had everything mixed together - but why is this automatically assumed to be inappropriate? MtGox certainly stores all the user balances together, and bitcoind does so even if you have separate accounts setup. Perhaps ideally, things might be different, but that doesn't change the reality or realistic expectations.
2575  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Mining protocol bandwidth comparison: GBT, Stratum, and getwork on: January 13, 2013, 01:11:37 AM
url=http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/visual-studio-express-products]Visual Studio Express 2012 [/url] ---> With Visual Studio Express tools, you can build the next great app for Windows 8, Windows Phone, and the web. Best thing about them? They’re entirely free.

^I'm pretty sure you don't agree with their definition of "free" though, so whatever LOL
Because they aren't free. If you want to sell your soul to Microsoft for it, go ahead and use their malware to sign your binaries yourself.
2576  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [605 GH] Eligius: GBT Decentralized, 0Fee CPPSRB, no reg, BTC+NMC, phone support on: January 11, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
If I go offline for some maintenance work, will this affect my earnings? (yes or no)
If you're not mining for 2 hours, you will lose 2 hours worth of earnings in the long run. Other than that, no.
2577  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: CVE-2012-3789 disclosure on: January 08, 2013, 09:25:18 PM
(*) Version information in https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures has been frozen for a couple of months, and I have not other source, so I'm extrapolating growth.
The deployment links should all be up to date; anyone is welcome to update the wiki percentages as needed. I've updated them now: the CVE in question has 83% fix deployment.
2578  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: BFGMiner: modular FPGA/GPU & X6500, overclk/fans, GBT, RPC, Linux/PPA/Win 2.10.2 on: January 06, 2013, 09:54:38 PM
For some reason any version newer then bfgminer 2.9.1 starts reporting my x6500's dead slowly over time. 
Quite a bit changed for X6500 between 2.9.1 and 2.9.2; are you able to compile and git bisect yourself? If not, we could meet on IRC and go through it with me building each test revision.
2579  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: CGMINER GPU FPGA overc monit fanspd RPC stratum linux/windws/osx/mip/r-pi 2.10.4 on: January 06, 2013, 08:20:54 PM
you did not have the paitience to work with the cgminer team and work with them to get your changes in?
It's not a matter of patience or working with, it's a matter of Con demanding I pay to get even bugfixes merged, and Kano undoing even bugfixes because he's too incompetent to use git and Con doesn't care.
2580  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: CGMINER GPU FPGA overc monit fanspd RPC stratum linux/windws/osx/mip/r-pi 2.10.4 on: January 06, 2013, 04:19:56 PM
Is there any support for the x6500 with cgminer?  I know bfgminer has it but I really prefer cgminer.
Why do you prefer cgminer?
I have been using it since I started mining.
I don't follow; why is that a reason to prefer it? If there is something cgminer does that BFGMiner doesn't, that you find value in, I'd prefer to add it to BFGMiner.
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