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online, catching up with orders and pm's now
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BTC Pot is at ~59 BTC for tomorrow.
This is going to be the stuff of legends or a misadventure that people will mock on the internet. Legends I assume! FYI: I transferred 4.3xxxx from poloniex to the pot today, so that one is a duplicate transaction. 628 WOLF has already been acquired back by an order at 0.001 which sat on poloniex this week. 10,000 WOLF has already been destroyed with transaction fees. The pot stands at 60.75 BTC as I go to bed now, I'll give the final total tomorrow at 12. All purchases have been settled, and any requests which come in over night I'll serve before 12 tomorrow (subject to btc being received by then). See you all tomorrow, wolf mode activated. |
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I like the idea of paying out a small fraction of each mined block to the investors rather than a premine, and keep track of the current market value - paying until everyone has been payed back at which the payout would either stop of go to a fund or charity of some sort to help victims of crypto related fraud.
Also mechanisms to prevent the pump and dump would be nice. The target should be for a stable coin, it might take a little longer to repay the victims but it would be better.
Really like your idea Illiki a small tax on each block building a charity fund whose first beneficiary's would be StackCoin victims. +1 |
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I'm offline now for the night. Will check back in 2 hours before going to bed.
BTC Pot is at ~59 BTC for tomorrow. Last orders now, or tomorrow before the cut off, supply for the week stops at 12:00 UTC. Then it begins.
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If you are a longterm member here and want to hide your id behind a different username.... why?
I do, because my normal username is my username for everything I do on the web for the past [many years] including friends and family. If they see I've created a coin, and see it with a million dollar market cap or higher, it'll make for all manner of awkward social occurrences. For the same reason you don't tell people your BTC balance. I've still got people I know to vouch for my real identity though, and can do it at will. In fact I know the developer right above your post, defaced, who made franko, I'm sure I have him on skype infact. But I still don't want everybody knowing my real nick unless I do something stupid, then it's released and my life turns to shit. |
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Please slow down.
As a community of miners, traders, and investors who have all made and lost money on various coins, do realise that the more you are a community, and act as one, the better you will get on. Converse, find the gems, communicate, get behind them and support them well. Jumping from one coin to the next in the hope to make mad $$$ can only end in tears, as it has so often.
Another coin, why? get behind one which is already out there and has a strong proven dev team, why not quark or something with technical merit that has been slowly forgotten because it's not the new kid with big big profit potential.
Please though, slow down, consider how to prevent this from happening again, honestly talk and communicate about projects, and don't join in the random hype about random coins.
If you do decide to create a coin though, I'm happy to contribute some time or resources to help ensure it's at least stable and well grounded from the off.
best of luck, and sad news about stackcoin.. I've been taken for $50k in alts and 200BTC in scams the last year, so I know how it feels.
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InsanityDev, is there some way we can contact you other than this forum?
It seemed like it went down for a short while just now.
Yes, insanitycoin at gmail dot com, I'll add it to the ANN  After the recent experiences with criminal IPOs, what about escrow instead of just sending money into a possible void ?
I've taken every measure possible to ensure accountability, see the ANN under "Will you run away with our BTC?". Additionally, I hate to point it out, but even if you use escrow for the transaction, I still hold the BTC until the end of the week, and you hold the WOLF, if you're trusting me to hold the BTC there's not much point using escrow. This is a no pressure situation though, make sure you understand fully what you are spending money on first, if you have any doubts at all, either wait until you are comfortable at some point during the 9 weeks, or just be a spectator. update: ~57 BTC in the pot, ~14 hours remain before supply stops till monday |
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true! BUT! if i were a dev... i would post it somewhere else.... i'm not too fund about revealing my true identity to everyone here... even if your are a true NON scammer dev... there are always people who lost money on your coin... and want to blame you for it... that could actually be dangerous you know... thats the negativ part of not being regulated  again, common sense, only lodge identity with people you /really/ trust, and who are hopefully neutral. |
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Can somebody from XCP please confirm which of the following statements is true (sparing technical details):
a) Poloniex's server or system was compromised by a malicious attacker who withdrew a large amount of bitcoin
b) Poloniex was running on an XCP chain which was incorrect, and somebody has (legitimately or maliciously) moved XCP to poloniex to sell for BTC, which they have then withdrawn.
Thanks.
sorry to repeat, but as the dev of another currency who is partially responsible for 50-100 btc of coin on poloniex, and 50+ btc there too, I would appreciate an answer. Poloniex / Tristan seems very decent to me so far, but clarification on the above would really help me move forwards with full confidence. Here is the chronology of the events as I remember. This might be inaccurate. A dev or busoni might correct any inaccuracy. a) a bug in the XCP protocol alllowed a hacker to maliciously withdraw 35k XCP from Poloniex hot wallet to one of his address b) he desposited those 35k XCP immediately after on his Poloniex trading account c) he sold those 35k XCP on the market for approx X BTC (150?) d) he withdrew X-35 BTC to one of his address, leaving 35 BTC behind e) he stole again 35k XCP (that he had just sold) to one of his address with a malicious transaction f) Poloniex XCP/BTC pair was shut down, and the bug was corrected in a matter of hours. Both malicious transactions were invalidated (and not reversed) by the fixed protocol g) Later, busoni reverted the transactions of the dump (leaving a 0 XCP balance for the buyers) Dev or busoni / PM me if something is wrong so I can edit/ delete some parts Thank you, that's more than enough to warrant my confidence personally and professionally in Tristan / Poloniex. Much appreciated. |
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Can somebody from XCP please confirm which of the following statements is true (sparing technical details):
a) Poloniex's server or system was compromised by a malicious attacker who withdrew a large amount of bitcoin
b) Poloniex was running on an XCP chain which was incorrect, and somebody has (legitimately or maliciously) moved XCP to poloniex to sell for BTC, which they have then withdrawn.
Thanks.
sorry to repeat, but as the dev of another currency who is partially responsible for 50-100 btc of coin on poloniex, and 50+ btc there too, I would appreciate an answer. Poloniex / Tristan seems very decent to me so far, but clarification on the above would really help me move forwards with full confidence. |
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Is it possible that some new rules are implemented so that people cannot launch a coin from bitcointalk before they deliver proof who they are:
I would suggest:
1. Passport/ID (copy needs to be send to Bitcointalk)
2. Address (copy of billing address needs to be send to Bitcointalk)
Maybe some more suggestions from the community? We have been scammed by several people, and when people know the name of the coin owner then he will not make any mistakes as they will find him. We are talking here about real money, and miners/investors need some protections. There will be always scammers, but with now rules altcoin business will look much better later on...
I don't think it's fair to ask this of bitcointalk mods, unless they are happy to do so. For what it's worth I personally did this when launching my currency with trusted members of the community like escrow.ms and VIPs like augusto croppo, some coin holders, and also the exchange it trades on. If I try anything shady all my personal details including drivers license with my home address is released to the community ( Escrow.ms, August Croppo, NWO, Poloniex Exchange, Cryptsy Staff). So, good idea, and decent developers will already do this. |
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I'd like to buy some, how long do I have until you go to sleep?
6-8 hours at least I'm sure. I'm currently waiting on a test withdraw from Poloniex back to the pot to ensure everything is fine for tomorrow before taking any more BTC orders, I'll pm you and update this thread once I'm 100% convinced myself.I have heard from Poloniex and the XCP guys and am happy with the situation, for full context see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg5304990#msg5304990 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg5305316#msg5305316Consider everything back on as planned. BTC Pot is at ~54 BTC and growing steadily, 16 hours left till the supply is cut and Insanity Sunday slowly starts to map up, this time tomorrow it should be quite interesting! |
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Can somebody from XCP please confirm which of the following statements is true (sparing technical details):
a) Poloniex's server or system was compromised by a malicious attacker who withdrew a large amount of bitcoin
b) Poloniex was running on an XCP chain which was incorrect, and somebody has (legitimately or maliciously) moved XCP to poloniex to sell for BTC, which they have then withdrawn.
Thanks.
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 Sounds like someone I should be taking my advice from  Srsly? Trust is calculated from root members, and also those you trust yourself. So everybody sees a different trust rating, based on who they trust. This also helps see networks of people and who may or may not be linked to people who do not trust (or who want to defame) somebody else. |
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Indeed.
Let's be sensible, do not send any more BTC, everything which we have is safe and in the worst case I can ask Tristan for the WOLF wallet from the exchange to move it to another one.
I'll liaise with Poloniex to see what the real story is, and if he requires any help I'll give him a hand to ensure his service is safe and secure (I'm quite a good developer).
I'll update this thread in due course.
This actually happened a few days ago. The Counterparty group is going to make him whole so there isn't going to be a shutdown. Wonderful - I was hoping that was the case, have been reading the rather long thread. I still want to keep things on hold until I hear from Tristan directly. I'll update the thread once I do. https://twitter.com/Poloniex/status/437272336916426752 all looks good. However I am doing due diligence and testing BTC withdrawals and deposits are fine, if so, then no problem and we continue as planned |
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OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.
Here is a summary:
1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.
2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.
3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?
* Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.
* Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.
Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.
4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
(a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
(b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
(c) donations - largest number of people agree.
Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.
5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?
Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.
For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.
Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.
If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.
Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.
A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:
Are you really going to donate? Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?
And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?
And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?
For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...
This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community. If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.
I am the developer of WOLF and have reached out to Tristan (Poloniex) to offer my services in hardening and securing the poloniex exchange today. Hopefully as a community we can all work through this to help a hacked exchange through the process, rather than driving them out of business. Personally, I have lost over $50k over the past year in exchange hacks, so I'm keen to not see another one go down! |
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Indeed.
Let's be sensible, do not send any more BTC, everything which we have is safe and in the worst case I can ask Tristan for the WOLF wallet from the exchange to move it to another one.
I'll liaise with Poloniex to see what the real story is, and if he requires any help I'll give him a hand to ensure his service is safe and secure (I'm quite a good developer).
I'll update this thread in due course.
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Thanks for the info - all BTC apart from 5 is in cold storage so safe. I'll email poloniex to see what's happening. |
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Thanks for the full linux instructions drakoin The Pot for Insanity Sunday just tipped over 50 BTC, a great start for week one. |
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Hi All, Augusto, thank you for also verifying my identity. So far that's Escrow.ms, Augusto Croppo, NWO, Jdtmp (Staff at Cryptsy), Tristan from Poloniex (the exchange where we trade). I hope that alleviates some peoples worries Regarding Poloniex "freezing", do not worry, Tristan is a good developer who takes the time to let people know when he's working on a change to the website which may affect peoples trading, rather than just let people wonder what's going on. If something unexpected happens he's normally very fast to address it, and I have the utmost confidence that all markets including WOLF/BTC will be working again very shortly, and certainly all day tomorrow whilst we conduct the first Insanity Sunday. Consider me online and here to answer questions and take orders from now. Less than 24 hours till the first weeks fun begins! |
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