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Author Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread  (Read 1259402 times)
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kdrop22
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February 21, 2014, 07:23:44 AM
 #3821

If anyone feels like helping me out. I'm completely out of bitcoin as every millibit went into XCP. But now I need Bitcoin for transactions fees... -____-
If you can send me like $5 worth of bitcoin I'll gladly send you 2 XCP

Code:
12aXShqo2UiALhYTejR72ZdeiSL7ThEkpc
Sent, I will PM you my address.
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February 21, 2014, 07:25:07 AM
 #3822

If anyone feels like helping me out. I'm completely out of bitcoin as every millibit went into XCP. But now I need Bitcoin for transactions fees... -____-
If you can send me like $5 worth of bitcoin I'll gladly send you 2 XCP

Code:
12aXShqo2UiALhYTejR72ZdeiSL7ThEkpc
Sent, I will PM you my address.

Your awesome thank you!

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mtbitcoin
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February 21, 2014, 07:31:31 AM
 #3823

How long does this take ?

Code:
C:\Users\chris>counterpartyd server

C:\Users\chris>echo off
Status: RESTART
Block: 278280
Block: 278281
Block: 278282
Block: 278283
Block: 278284
Block: 278285
Block: 278286
Block: 278287
Block: 278288
Block: 278289
Block: 278290
Block: 278291
Block: 278292
Block: 278293
Block: 278294
Block: 278295
Block: 278296
Block: 278297
Block: 278298
Block: 278299

Quite a while.. around 10-12 hours for me

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February 21, 2014, 07:35:33 AM
Last edit: April 06, 2014, 08:02:12 PM by doitnow
 #3824

Busoni seems to be pissed off. Counterparty disappeared from poloniex again  Undecided
I was just about to trade..

I have been kept an eye on poloniex, and didn't see XCP back.

yeah what is he referring to ?

It appears for a bit or it was a glitch?? Nobody noticed?
Never mind. I hope that xnova and phantomphreak will find solution to these missing coins and xcp will be back on poloniex soon.

Edit: it was about two hours ago and there were selling orders at 0.013 and buying at 0.009. In the meantime Ive made deposit of btc's and when I switched back to trading site, the xcp already gone from poloniex
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February 21, 2014, 07:58:08 AM
 #3825

Maybe you didn't hit refresh ? Anyone confirming this ?

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February 21, 2014, 08:12:34 AM
 #3826

Any progress on poloniex?


Best Regards
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February 21, 2014, 08:14:45 AM
 #3827

Maybe you didn't hit refresh ? Anyone confirming this ?

Definitely NOT. I opened poloniex in new tab.

For your information it happened while busoni was online.
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February 21, 2014, 08:55:20 AM
 #3828

When will XCP be back on Poloniex?
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February 21, 2014, 09:26:40 AM
 #3829

When will XCP be back on Poloniex?

Not soon enough.  What information does coinedup.com need to get xcp added?

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February 21, 2014, 09:46:38 AM
 #3830

I'd rather wait weeks for poloniex to add it back again then push XCP onto coinedup.  Coinedup has always had a reputation as a lazy, shoddy, 3rd rate exchange.

Sure, you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but if I were an investor looking to purchase XCP I would instantly take it less seriously when I find out it only trades on some ugly, slow, bland turd of a website.

If anything I'd push to get XCP onto C-CEX.com or mintpal.com, but after the shenanigans at Poloniex, I suspect no exchange is gonna wanna list it til it gets back on Poloniex and proves itself for a little while.
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February 21, 2014, 09:50:45 AM
 #3831

There is no need to push anything anywhere. let them finish the update  and get it back on poloniex than things will progress naturally with the client etc.

patience is virtue
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February 21, 2014, 09:57:27 AM
 #3832

OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.

Here is a summary:

1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.

2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.

3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?

     * Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.

     * Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.

4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
      (a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
      (b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
      (c) donations - largest number of people agree.

Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.


5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?

Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.  

For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.

Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.

If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.

Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.

A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate?  Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?  

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?  

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community.  If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.





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February 21, 2014, 10:04:28 AM
 #3833

OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.

Here is a summary:

1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.

2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.

3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?

     * Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.

     * Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.

4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
      (a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
      (b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
      (c) donations - largest number of people agree.

Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.


5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?

Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.  

For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.

Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.

If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.

Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.

A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate?  Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?  

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?  

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community.  If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.


I believe inevitably the freerider problem pales in comparison to a tax. There are going to be freeriders. Oh well. These people don't realize the severity of the issue. We should start another thread, where we can document who is donating and how much and make it public, so that there is no question who has donated. All we need is 70 people to donate 100 xcp... or 140 to donate 50..

I'm very eager to hear XNOVA, PHANTOMPHREAK, and BUSONI opinion on this. They have been earily silent on the matter.




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February 21, 2014, 10:04:46 AM
 #3834


The parties who "benefited":
- People who withdrew XCP that they bought before closing (this is the 7000)
- The hacker, who is up +80BTC

The parties who were unaffected
- People who did not have XCP on poloniex

Ideally, people who withdrew would deposit funds back into the exchange, the BTC would be redeposited, and all trades reversed, which would result in no one gaining or losing anything. However as this is not actually practical, the exchange is currently soliciting donations to try to cover the remainder.

That's the current fund situation right now.

Thanks for the good assessment of what happened at the exchange.

I'm encouraging those who benefited from the low XCP prices and withdrew the XCP to offer to return it to the exchange.

It might have looked like an fortuitous turn of events in your favor. However, you now know that it was caused by a bug in the protocol. It is the right thing to return what was not really yours to begin with.

If you decide to keep your windfall, know that you are benefiting from the misfortune of someone else in the community.

If more than 70% of the shortfall of XCP is returned to the exchange, I will personally donate 100% of all of the XCP that I would have lost (ie all of the buy orders which filled during the dump) to a bounty or donation fund for XCP.

Edit: I decided to lower the barrier from 80% to 70%
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February 21, 2014, 10:07:30 AM
 #3835


The parties who "benefited":
- People who withdrew XCP that they bought before closing (this is the 7000)
- The hacker, who is up +80BTC

The parties who were unaffected
- People who did not have XCP on poloniex

Ideally, people who withdrew would deposit funds back into the exchange, the BTC would be redeposited, and all trades reversed, which would result in no one gaining or losing anything. However as this is not actually practical, the exchange is currently soliciting donations to try to cover the remainder.

That's the current fund situation right now.

Thanks for the good assessment of what happened at the exchange.

I'm encouraging those who benefited from the low XCP prices and withdrew the XCP to offer to return it to the exchange.

It might have looked like an fortuitous turn of events in your favor. However, you now know that it was caused by a bug in the protocol. It is the right thing to return what was not really yours to begin with.

If you decide to keep your windfall, know that you are benefiting from the misfortune of someone else in the community.

If more than 70% of the shortfall of XCP is returned to the exchange, I will personally donate 100% of all of the XCP that I would have lost (ie all of the buy orders which filled during the dump) to a bounty or donation fund for XCP.

Edit: I decided to lower the barrier from 80% to 70%

I think this is a very good point. Give these folks the option to send the XCP back. They need to understand that by holding onto the cheap winnings, they are actually helping to hurt XCP in the long run. In other words they may actually bring down the price of there own holdings, not to mention everyone else's...

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February 21, 2014, 10:10:41 AM
Last edit: February 21, 2014, 10:31:32 AM by peled1986
 #3836


The parties who "benefited":
- People who withdrew XCP that they bought before closing (this is the 7000)
- The hacker, who is up +80BTC

The parties who were unaffected
- People who did not have XCP on poloniex

Ideally, people who withdrew would deposit funds back into the exchange, the BTC would be redeposited, and all trades reversed, which would result in no one gaining or losing anything. However as this is not actually practical, the exchange is currently soliciting donations to try to cover the remainder.

That's the current fund situation right now.

Thanks for the good assessment of what happened at the exchange.

I'm encouraging those who benefited from the low XCP prices and withdrew the XCP to offer to return it to the exchange.

It might have looked like an fortuitous turn of events in your favor. However, you now know that it was caused by a bug in the protocol. It is the right thing to return what was not really yours to begin with.

If you decide to keep your windfall, know that you are benefiting from the misfortune of someone else in the community.

If more than 70% of the shortfall of XCP is returned to the exchange, I will personally donate 100% of all of the XCP that I would have lost (ie all of the buy orders which filled during the dump) to a bounty or donation fund for XCP.

Edit: I decided to lower the barrier from 80% to 70%

These are the address of the people that withdrew XCP before closing of poloniex (these are the "7000"):

Tx    Block   BlockTime   Destination    Amount   
4638   286727   1NCsouKcyJUsTMKtFastR6R5epE9GeYT91   Received 200 XCP   
4637   286727   1Q3Ar2m347z3mDEryyQbywZCXerXLKAqyh Received 71.08910852 XCP   
4636   286727   1K859HgQvCCYHAMdGkU96tf9wYj1dhGogn Received 1938.9 XCP   
4635   286727      1BJiJVhvKGZPXYBUTEseQ48fwCDZ84BeCx Received 6 XCP   
4634   286727   1LArq4ZstbNo2Dcq3dg7QdtoTpvizsX52h Received 126.21410657 XCP   
4633   286727   18WLz4AxTRVhJ5TGQzAPTL3vEYMtJSzJSX Received 497.97347705 XCP   
4632   286727   1Ljx3T5AV8izV58UepcoYAqWsHuxi6cFAC Received 7.9 XCP   
4629   286726   17yzh4iz8dsYRgWWkm83HYHZtgXqC31rzC Received 3568.9 XCP   
4628   286726   1L2RvHFHoviCzk2CVJWhyKKYh8kzo3sbnq Received 59.9 XCP   
4627   286722   1LArq4ZstbNo2Dcq3dg7QdtoTpvizsX52h Received 1183.7369884 XCP   
4625   286722   18WLz4AxTRVhJ5TGQzAPTL3vEYMtJSzJSX Received 5.9 XCP   
4624   286722   1C8dJGH96QAg5SBdtkJm9WDQ3bb9H7tPbb Received 170.59999931 XCP   
4623   286722   17yzh4iz8dsYRgWWkm83HYHZtgXqC31rzC Received 9.9 XCP   

I think Busoni needs to check if these account are holding BTC and "hold them" + check if these accounts have xcp left in poloniex and subtract them. (of course after checking that these users benefited from the 35,000 xcp sell)

these three address: 17yzh4iz8dsYRgWWkm83HYHZtgXqC31rzC Received 3568.9 XCP  
                                       1LArq4ZstbNo2Dcq3dg7QdtoTpvizsX52h Received 1183.7369884 XCP
                                       1K859HgQvCCYHAMdGkU96tf9wYj1dhGogn Received 1938.9 XCP

withdrew total of 6692XCP = 95.6% of the xcp "missing"


I think we should make an effort to match these address to bitcointalk users it might help to convince them to return the xcp to poloniex
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February 21, 2014, 10:14:27 AM
Last edit: February 21, 2014, 10:31:03 AM by ginko-B
 #3837


Message to the Hacker:

Please understand that the longer this incident continues without a resolution, the more costly it is becoming to our Devs, Busoni, and our entire community.  

For example, my project to issue real assets on top of Counterparty has been setback by approximately one week.

If you are planning to return the 80 BTC, then please do so quickly so that we can all move on and put this matter permanently behind us.

If you are planning to choose a legacy of being a thief, blackhat, evil-doer, then please let Busoni know so that as a community we can have finality and closure.

It is not to late to redeem yourself, but our window of tolerance has its limits.
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February 21, 2014, 10:15:30 AM
 #3838


A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate?  Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?  

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community.  If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.


I will donate 500 when jimhsu have help me out to donate that from privatekey, because i dont have counterparty. I think he can help every other who dont know how use counterparty also..? 500 is over 7% what we need if only 7000xcp.. Its much, that is really much in money and from my burned coins and that hurt me. But everyone must remember this situation hurt coin and community more if we dont solve this fast and only fighting. You all who have burn btc are now +10x profit maybe more. Dont be selfish, use your profit, what ever you can, im sure if we collect this fast its pay us later back in xcp value. Other coins users and investors have ask why we burn money, now they they ask is that nice that money is gone, what they do in same situation, maybe use second time invested money? Cheesy We dont use, we solve this with profit so everyone now who have invest please donate.

XCP:     19zzpgk3oakH2b7zd63mw3DadtNkvefVfo    BTC:     1ASSkiRsqRUUp5Y8YQYnuc41fBbYR3iRD2
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February 21, 2014, 10:15:44 AM
Last edit: February 21, 2014, 04:49:18 PM by ginko-B
 #3839


The parties who "benefited":
- People who withdrew XCP that they bought before closing (this is the 7000)
- The hacker, who is up +80BTC

The parties who were unaffected
- People who did not have XCP on poloniex

Ideally, people who withdrew would deposit funds back into the exchange, the BTC would be redeposited, and all trades reversed, which would result in no one gaining or losing anything. However as this is not actually practical, the exchange is currently soliciting donations to try to cover the remainder.

That's the current fund situation right now.

Thanks for the good assessment of what happened at the exchange.

I'm encouraging those who benefited from the low XCP prices and withdrew the XCP to offer to return it to the exchange.

It might have looked like an fortuitous turn of events in your favor. However, you now know that it was caused by a bug in the protocol. It is the right thing to return what was not really yours to begin with.

If you decide to keep your windfall, know that you are benefiting from the misfortune of someone else in the community.

If more than 70% of the shortfall of XCP is returned to the exchange, I will personally donate 100% of all of the XCP that I would have lost (ie all of the buy orders which filled during the dump) to a bounty or donation fund for XCP.

Edit: I decided to lower the barrier from 80% to 70%

These are the address of the people that withdrew XCP before closing of poloniex (this is the 7000):

Tx    Block   BlockTime   Destination    Amount   
4638   286727   1NCsouKcyJUsTMKtFastR6R5epE9GeYT91   Received 200 XCP   
4637   286727   1Q3Ar2m347z3mDEryyQbywZCXerXLKAqyh Received 71.08910852 XCP   
4636   286727   1K859HgQvCCYHAMdGkU96tf9wYj1dhGogn Received 1938.9 XCP   
4635   286727      1BJiJVhvKGZPXYBUTEseQ48fwCDZ84BeCx Received 6 XCP   
4634   286727   1LArq4ZstbNo2Dcq3dg7QdtoTpvizsX52h Received 126.21410657 XCP   
4633   286727   18WLz4AxTRVhJ5TGQzAPTL3vEYMtJSzJSX Received 497.97347705 XCP   
4632   286727   1Ljx3T5AV8izV58UepcoYAqWsHuxi6cFAC Received 7.9 XCP   
4629   286726   17yzh4iz8dsYRgWWkm83HYHZtgXqC31rzC Received 3568.9 XCP   
4628   286726   1L2RvHFHoviCzk2CVJWhyKKYh8kzo3sbnq Received 59.9 XCP   
4627   286722   1LArq4ZstbNo2Dcq3dg7QdtoTpvizsX52h Received 1183.7369884 XCP   
4625   286722   18WLz4AxTRVhJ5TGQzAPTL3vEYMtJSzJSX Received 5.9 XCP   
4624   286722   1C8dJGH96QAg5SBdtkJm9WDQ3bb9H7tPbb Received 170.59999931 XCP   
4623   286722   17yzh4iz8dsYRgWWkm83HYHZtgXqC31rzC Received 9.9 XCP   

I think Busoni needs to check if these account are holding BTC and "hold them" + check if these accounts have xcp left in poloniex and subtract them. (of course after checking that these users benefited from the 35,000 xcp sell)


+ 10

If the individuals who hold these addresses do not return the ill-gotten gains to Busoni, they are much worse then free-riders as they are profiteering from the hack at the expense of others in this community.
riceberry
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February 21, 2014, 10:19:34 AM
 #3840

I'll donate 5% of xcp if it comes back on poloniex
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