You greedy bastard. I would hate for me to get rich by buying BTC, but seeing all my friends not gain from it because of lack of knowledge.
I'm spreading the word. If they're smart, they'll listen and buy.
Seriously, I think Bitcoin will reach $1000/BTC this year.
If you really think that, why are you not selling all of your possessions, getting cash advances on credit cards, and putting everything on the line for this and buying as many as you can? A lot of people say this, but don't put their money where their mouth is. |
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One millibitcoin ("one Millie") is 0.001 BTC or 1 mBTC.
One microbitcoin ("one Mike") is 0.000001 BTC or 1 µBTC.
One satoshi is 0.00000001 BTC or one base unit (or 10 nBTC).
why not just deal in 'satoshi's? That will get rid of the need for mBTC/µBTC.. Psychology. If you have to spend 10,000 to get a pizza, it seems worthless. |
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What's the exchange rate between those and BTC?
The market will decide. |
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Seems difficult when you'd need to raise half (or a quarter or whatever) of the BTC supply to be able to fund it.
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More people wanting to buy than sell at the old price.
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Ripple is really interesting, both for the fact that it's genuinely revolutionary (no kidding here, the implications seem to run deep) and for the fact that it's been going since 2006 and hasn't really taken off, not compared to bitcoin. Financial incentives are higher for early adopters of btc maybe... at any rate, ripple is pretty cool. Good idea with that blockchain thing!
Thank you. If, like me, you're interested in alternative currencies, you may like these links: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Moneyhttp://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Moneyhttp://www.complementarycurrency.org/ccDatabase/les_public.htmlBy the way, probably bitcoin should be listed there as a complementary currency. I'm not sure, but I think bitcoin and ripple can integrate with open transactions. If not, I think they will. Blowjobcoin - you get one coin for each blowjob you give me. If you're not interested it this thread, you can just ignore it. I'm interested. I've actually doubled my reward to 2 Blowjob coins per blowjob given, and 20 if it's a hot female. |
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Ripple is really interesting, both for the fact that it's genuinely revolutionary (no kidding here, the implications seem to run deep) and for the fact that it's been going since 2006 and hasn't really taken off, not compared to bitcoin. Financial incentives are higher for early adopters of btc maybe... at any rate, ripple is pretty cool. Good idea with that blockchain thing!
Thank you. If, like me, you're interested in alternative currencies, you may like these links: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Moneyhttp://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Moneyhttp://www.complementarycurrency.org/ccDatabase/les_public.htmlBy the way, probably bitcoin should be listed there as a complementary currency. I'm not sure, but I think bitcoin and ripple can integrate with open transactions. If not, I think they will. Blowjobcoin - you get one coin for each blowjob you give me. |
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Price will always be determined by scarcity. How can it be otherwise? The price of bitcoins is anyway not set by the software, but by outside market forces.
See, if we just had more food show up magically during a famine, then no one would starve! |
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hehe .. I'm not U.S. so ...
if I want bitcoin .. I work for it .. sell something ... just like any true currency .. earn it ??
The exchanges are only good for judging against fire starter .. but Gold and Silver have always had set values as currency ..
The day I can make anywhere close to what I can make when I get paid in fiat, I get paid in Bitcoin. Yes .. shit .. you can probably only make like 1 third in BTC what you make in Fiat ... oh ya .. that's the exchange rate .. and the Fiat is LOOSING value ... It's LOOSING! Trouble is, I don't save 100% of my paycheck. I need to eat, I need to put a roof over my family's head, I need to pay bills, etc... What is left can of course be saved. I could buy BTC with that if I really wanted to. So I'll need the exchange rate to survive. But when I could actually use BTC to actually pay for such things and actually can get paid enough to maintain my standard of living, maybe I will start thinking that way. |
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Mining will face its destiny when the calendar shows 2013.
Until then, just mine when it's profitable and stop when it isn't. Like any sane person would. But remember current price is paid by investors, keep BTC only if you're willing to gamble like they are.
Much less than you'd think. Difficulty increases will be a much bigger factor before 2013 than the reward dropoff. It's equivalent to the difficulty doubling. The difficulty has doubled many times in the last 6 months. It will double many times before then. Sure, that extra doubling will suck, but it's a lot smaller than what is coming up with more miners coming online profitably as word continues to gets out. In fact, the difficulty has doubled 16 times since Jan 2009. If it doubles another 16 times, we would be around 7,187,333,120 difficulty (if not more) and roughly 1,113,784,320 TeraHashes per second to get there. I don't consider this likely, as I expect the growth to mute as Bitcoin's market matures; but I would consider at least two more doubling to be likely. The question is, how much hashing power is enough to secure the system? That's not really an answerable question, but I'd have to guess that having a hashing power in excess of the total power of the top 20 known supercomputers is a safe goal. Always account for the possibility of more efficient miners coming out. This was a different game when we only had CPU miners. At the current price, difficulty has a lot of room to go up and still have a lot of people be profitable, especially gamers who already have the equipment. |
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Mining will face its destiny when the calendar shows 2013.
Until then, just mine when it's profitable and stop when it isn't. Like any sane person would. But remember current price is paid by investors, keep BTC only if you're willing to gamble like they are.
Much less than you'd think. Difficulty increases will be a much bigger factor before 2013 than the reward dropoff. It's equivalent to the difficulty doubling. The difficulty has doubled many times in the last 6 months. It will double many times before then. Sure, that extra doubling will suck, but it's a lot smaller than what is coming up with more miners coming online profitably as word continues to gets out. |
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maybe you didn't notice that the price per bitcoin also is increasing like crazy.
in the last 3-4weeks difficulty doubled, btc-price tripled,
so mining is even more profitable today, at a higher difficulty, than it was a few weeks ago.
maybe you should do your math again.
i meant that there is no direct correlation between difficulty and price increase. people dont buy more cus they see the difficulty rising for miners. im asking is there any other hope than just hoping that the price will rise If you already have your equipment, unless you are super inefficient, mining will remain profitable. Your rig is a sunk cost if you bought anything for it. You just need to beat electricity, which isn't that hard to do. Electricity Costs = Cost of electricity in $/kw-hr Difficulty = Difficulty Exchange Rate = $/BTC Reward = BTC/block Using these numbers, you can determine the minimum efficiency needed to continue operating. So the formula is: 2^32*Difficulty * Electricity Costs ------------------------------------ = Minimum efficiency to mine profitably using variable costs 3600 * 1000 * Exchange Rate * Reward I'll use the upcoming difficulty: Electricity Costs = $.12/kW-hr (adjust to your local rate) Exchange = $3.80/BTC Reward = 50 Difficulty = 150,000 We end up with 113khash/s /W to mine profitably. Almost every GPU can meet this standard pretty easily. Using the current exchange rate, even if difficulty gets up to 2.75M, some cards can still be marginally profitable. So while difficulty continues to rise pretty high, I do expect more miners to keep coming online if they already have the hardware. This can continue for quite some time and still have them be profitable. This does not mean spending large amounts of money to buy rigs is worthwhile unless you would have bought it otherwise. |
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hehe .. I'm not U.S. so ...
if I want bitcoin .. I work for it .. sell something ... just like any true currency .. earn it ??
The exchanges are only good for judging against fire starter .. but Gold and Silver have always had set values as currency ..
The day I can make anywhere close to what I can make when I get paid in fiat, I get paid in Bitcoin. |
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Mining just needs to get more efficient. You don't need that much more attention. Some technological breakthrough similar to GPU mining when it came out would destroy the difficulty. New cards that are more efficient could come out. There are a lot of things that can make difficulty grow fast.
That would give the opposite effect of what the messages I responded to were predicting. I'm saying that difficulty will increase almost no matter what happens. An extreme price drop will make difficulty get easier, but besides that, I agree. |
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I was debating with an acquaintance the other day and he made the argument that taxes aren't really stealing because the money is not yours to begin with. Basically his argument was that companies take tax rates into account when they decide salaries and so the taxes you pay come from that extra money the company appended to your salary. Now he admitted that for the higher tax brackets the amount added by the company doesn't compensate for your entire tax burden, but at lower levels it accounts for most of it.
As I see it, that's still theft, even if it is at a reduced rate. Also, it simply means the businesses are footing more of the bill rather than the individual tax payers. Or actually, the customers of the businesses pay the difference as businesses pass those extra costs onto their products and services. So really, isn't the individual tax payer still paying for it?
Anyway, I thought it was an interesting argument and was one I hadn't heard before. Thoughts?
Have government put a $1M tax on every worker. See how many are employed. Your friend is an idiot. Sure they may take it into account (if you live in a high tax area, you would be willing to move to a low tax area for a lower overall compensation package that nets you more, so the high tax area employers have to pay more to attract workers), but it doesn't mean it doesn't affect them. In the end, a business that pays more than someone else for the same product will be less profitable and will be either less valuable or go out of business. |
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Bitcoin hasn't even had it's first publicity in a "big" media outlet yet. The point is that the publicity has to get bigger and bigger to feed the exponential growth that is required to keep the difficulty at bay. Mining just needs to get more efficient. You don't need that much more attention. Some technological breakthrough similar to GPU mining when it came out would destroy the difficulty. New cards that are more efficient could come out. There are a lot of things that can make difficulty grow fast. |
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Why should we expect price to go up if difficulty increases? Isn't it the other way around?
Price goes up when difficulty increases because as they become harder to get from mining, people buy. Difficulty increases when price goes up because higher prices offset the increase in difficulty, making mining attractive again. The question here is which is the leading indicator and which is the lagging. Pretty obvious to me that price drives difficulty. If it's super profitable to mine, then people start rigs. That increases difficulty. I don't see too many miners in the buying bitcoin arena (otherwise they would have never started mining, since it's less profitable). |
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The period of mid-February through March, when difficulty increased and prices corrected, was a period when the price lept forward and difficulty had to catch up. When difficulty crossed over, it confirmed the strength of the previous rise above the $1 parity and we had another rally shooting past $1, continuing beyond $3 and touching above $4. So we are again at the period of the end of a rally, where price is leading above the difficulty and the price is waiting for the difficulty to catch up. When it does, its a confirmation of the strength of the rise, and after which price will rally again, leading the next increase in difficulty, ad infinitum. so what your saying that prices can never drop? Prices can drop. But if difficulty continues to increase and catch up to a price, then we expect the price to surge upward again. The price has never dropped below the difficulty for long. If the price drops, and difficulty drops below, then price drops more, followed by difficulty, that would be a strong bear market and could lead to a crash. Why should we expect price to go up if difficulty increases? Isn't it the other way around? |
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Miners, fire up your rigs!
If you already invested in a mining rig, you need a really low price to stop mining. However, investing in a new rig is better when the price is high (and you expect it to drop in the future) compared to buying coins directly. I think your model does not take a lot of this into affect. When there is a big incentive to mine (price goes up a lot), the miners that get built from that peak tend to stay online even after a price drop. Unless the cost is so bad, you'll certainly beat electricity costs, so might as well keep going. My model uses a different model. The difficulty tends to increase even with a constant price. If the price increases, more miners show up (and stay online for a while). Miners tend to go offline only after steep drops in prices. I used a ratio of price to difficulty and it took a pretty bad ratio for the difficulty to drop. Right now, the difficulty to price ratio is very favorable, so mining looks real good for now, but give it another month or two, and it gets worse pretty fast, especially if the price ever drops. More rigs come online anyway as more people find out about Bitcoins and people already have the equipment to mine but just weren't using it for mining and can recoup costs. |
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The supply of alternative, competing cryptocurrencies is unlimited. Very bad. I think competition is good. There may be be an possibly unlimited number of cryptocurrencies but how many are actually going to be widely used? The incentive for people to flock to new currencies is small as long as Bitcoin is doing what people want it to do. It's bad if there are no differences between them. Competition is good (although bad if you hold a lot of Bitcoins, perhaps). But the big draw is there are only 21M Bitcoins that will ever exist. If that number changed to 21B, that would be awful. Having a clone that could exist with the same features essentially doubles that number. Sure maybe one would win out, and maybe both would live, but it's a threat. |
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