What is that supposed to mean, beyond an attempt to lump all government and/or govt activities into one broad bashing category... You are NOT really saying anything beyond "I hate government," which is pretty superficial, if you reflect upon your implied assertion. |
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The signal to noise ratio on the entire forum seems to slowly erode as time goes on (Bitcoin becomes more popular/increases in value).
There are public sector employees/contractors who get paid to do that to forums. ...with your money. The above statement seems to be unspecified anti-government fear mongering for the mere sake of spreading anti-government FUD. Justusranvier should realize (but maybe he does NOT or he does NOT want to) that Public employees are NOT generally engaged in this kind of nefarious activities, so more likely the referred to activities are to be agents of various financial institutions or entities or individuals and/or other private wealthy status quo interests. And to the extent that government employees may be involved in such nefarious activities (at the direction of private financial institutions or preservation of the money system or whatever), these kinds of activities are somewhat speculative and would NOT be carried out with transparency and/or in the public interest. Additionally, there are a lot of good and decent activities carried out by public sector employees on a daily basis... Accordingly, it is NOT a good and public interest use of government resources if they were to be employed in trolling activities... Yet, I would NOT consider that "no government officials" are carrying out trolling b/c there could be some and some misguided and nefarious government branches (which there are some that are engaged in spying and social repression), yet trolling kinds of activities from government employees should be discouraged and frowned upon if they were to come to the attention of regular people who should have more influences in the direction of their (anti-people) government and its policies and practices than they seem to have in modern times. Government shill detected. I don't think so. I have posted a lot already in this thread regarding my various views on government and government services and public service etc... My views are much more nuanced than your attempt to simplify and denigrate with your three word conclusion that simply lacks any analysis or description of your own viewpoints.. .which are signs that you do NOT have much if any viewpoints beyond just name-calling and labeling. |
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yeah so why the repeated shit about "this is a bitcoin price movement tracking thread" again...
and to take a page from your communication style
"TO BE CLEAR IT REALLY ISN'T AND HAS TURNED INTO A GENERAL DISCUSSION AND HANG OUT AND PRICE AND WALL OBSERVER THREAD"
as it quite obvious if you use your eyeballs and mind together and read what people post.
That means that if I or anyone else that is a long term holder or speculator or a short term trader or who the fuck ever can post here and share their opinion and views.. and hopefully without an angry little pitbull snapping at their heels.
To be clear.
Jesus.
Ah haaaa!!!! I am beginning to understand better.... So your real name is Jesus?  |
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... (i.e BTC in my view is stonger than it was when I bought, and as a buyer with a long term view now is a odd time to sell) which was answering the question that Klee had asked. Hope that makes sense.
You and the market haven't been seeing eye-to-eye since 2013. One of you is wrong, and teh market is definitive. So yeah. Protip: When reality (like falling BTC price and people selling) doesn't make sense to you, don't assume that, just 'coz you don't understand it, it's somehow "wrong" or nonsensical. Keep trying to understand. I'm rootin' for ya! From my understanding the BTC market did NOT start in December 2013 - accordingly it has a longer history, so any person, whether "pro" or NOT should account for that. Additionally, anyone can look at a 9 months market and assert that "you should have... blah, blah, blah." That does NOT make a pro, but instead a pest... or more likely a troll. You. If you don't understand what you're replying to--don't reply. Hopefully, at least this is clear.  I understood the posts sufficiently to chime in to point out the extent that you seem to be going off the reservation with your aggressiveness and your distractions and your otherwise trolling and non-contributory content.  |
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... Not bitching about you being off-topic, that's fine with me, as long as you understand that you are off-topic. This is about BTC price, not eventual success or failure of Bitcoin... WTF?  A poster can still be a buyer and holder and still meaningfully participate in this speculation thread. You, NotLambChops, are trying to define which points of view are more relevant to this thread as if the thread's design and purpose is ONLY trading.. to attempt to profit on the ups and the downs. Your viewpoint in this regard, if it is real, is quite wrong. ... Topic of this thread: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussionBitcoin Price Movement Tracking You could understand why I mistakenly assumed that this thread was about tracking Bitcoin price, right? Stop with the logic. They don't speak logic. You'll confuse them. It's NOT logic that NotLambChops is employing here, it is selective literal interpretation.. and opportunism and just arguing for the sake of it.....  |
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... Not bitching about you being off-topic, that's fine with me, as long as you understand that you are off-topic. This is about BTC price, not eventual success or failure of Bitcoin... WTF? A poster can still be a buyer and holder and still meaningfully participate in this speculation thread. You, NotLambChops, are trying to define which points of view are more relevant to this thread as if the thread's design and purpose is ONLY trading.. to attempt to profit on the ups and the downs. Your viewpoint in this regard, if it is real, is quite wrong. ... Topic of this thread: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussionBitcoin Price Movement Tracking You could understand why I mistakenly assumed that this thread was about tracking Bitcoin price, right? NOPE... You have been participating in this thread about the same amount of time as me, and after about a few days of reading and/or participating in posts, I figured out that this thread covers a lot of areas in the realm of bitcoin speculation(s). It seems as if you are being disingenuous if you are attempting to suggest that the thread pertains to the narrow literal interpretation of its title.... and you have already self-described your conduct and several of your communications today as being that of a prick, so maybe we should just leave it with that concession from you. |
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The signal to noise ratio on the entire forum seems to slowly erode as time goes on (Bitcoin becomes more popular/increases in value).
There are public sector employees/contractors who get paid to do that to forums. ...with your money. The above statement seems to be unspecified anti-government fear mongering for the mere sake of spreading anti-government FUD. Justusranvier should realize (but maybe he does NOT or he does NOT want to) that Public employees are NOT generally engaged in this kind of nefarious activities, so more likely the referred to activities are to be agents of various financial institutions or entities or individuals and/or other private wealthy status quo interests. And to the extent that government employees may be involved in such nefarious activities (at the direction of private financial institutions or preservation of the money system or whatever), these kinds of activities are somewhat speculative and would NOT be carried out with transparency and/or in the public interest. Additionally, there are a lot of good and decent activities carried out by public sector employees on a daily basis... Accordingly, it is NOT a good and public interest use of government resources if they were to be employed in trolling activities... Yet, I would NOT consider that "no government officials" are carrying out trolling b/c there could be some and some misguided and nefarious government branches (which there are some that are engaged in spying and social repression), yet trolling kinds of activities from government employees should be discouraged and frowned upon if they were to come to the attention of regular people who should have more influences in the direction of their (anti-people) government and its policies and practices than they seem to have in modern times. |
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... (i.e BTC in my view is stonger than it was when I bought, and as a buyer with a long term view now is a odd time to sell) which was answering the question that Klee had asked. Hope that makes sense.
You and the market haven't been seeing eye-to-eye since 2013. One of you is wrong, and teh market is definitive. So yeah. Protip: When reality (like falling BTC price and people selling) doesn't make sense to you, don't assume that, just 'coz you don't understand it, it's somehow "wrong" or nonsensical. Keep trying to understand. I'm rootin' for ya! From my understanding the BTC market did NOT start in December 2013 - accordingly it has a longer history, so any person, whether "pro" or NOT should account for that. Additionally, anyone can look at a 9 months market and assert that "you should have... blah, blah, blah." That does NOT make a pro, but instead a pest... or more likely a troll. |
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Gonna give the Finland Malla a run for its money? |
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...
BTC is still here... and the future is even brighter and BTC is even stronger... (only a blind man cannot see this)
So therefore, for me , now is not the time to sell....
... Horribly faulty logic. BTC may be "even stronger," but its exchange rate is lower than it once was. If the exchange rate continues on its downward trend, it's smart to sell, regardless of Bitcoin's eventual success. Right... ok if that works for you, it works for you. I am very happy with my decision, and it has worked very well for me... I am perfectly happy, the only thing I have done wrong is not buy more in the $75 region... "If the exchange rate continues" there is only one thing the exchange rate will continue to do.... and that is go up, and go down, and sideways and down and up etc etc That's what most of us are here to cash in on--volatility. Some of us make good calls, some bad. Some, like you, claiming they don't make any calls, are indifferent to price volatility, and simply hodl no matter what. For me, this begs the question: What are they doing here? Trolling? Propagandizing? If you are playing this long term, as I am, and do not really care for spending the time or the stress or the risk, playing games to increase your BTC stash, then there is nothing wrong with my "horrible logic" it might not fit into your way of thinking, or your plan, risk tolerance, long term goals, views , financial situation/needs, lifestyle, etc but that is fine, that is why you are one individual and I another.
I'm glad that you are happy with your choice. It's the logic you used to back up your decision that's flawed. If, like many of us, your goal is to make BTC, you're doing it wrong. If your goal is to make fiat? Still doing it wrong. This is the speculation subforum, peopled by traders--speculators. If you are indifferent to short-term price fluctuations, my guess is you're just in the wrong place. Not bitching about you being off-topic, that's fine with me, as long as you understand that you are off-topic. This is about BTC price, not eventual success or failure of Bitcoin. TL;DR: Knowing that Bitcoin will succeed is neat, but doesn't help me make money. inb4 "selfish greedy etc., etc": Speculation forum about money. WTF? A poster can still be a buyer and holder and still meaningfully participate in this speculation thread. You, NotLambChops, are trying to define which points of view are more relevant to this thread as if the thread's design and purpose is ONLY trading.. to attempt to profit on the ups and the downs. Your viewpoint in this regard, if it is real, is quite wrong. Second: there are lots of instances in which people may feel more comfortable betting on the upside and NOT the downside, and also be gambling that the upside is coming at any minute (especially when they may be perceiving, based on whatever information that they have, that BTC price is way beneath BTC's value). Anyhow, the mere fact that these kinds of buyers and holders may be wrong about their prediction(s) regarding the price direction of BTC does NOT make them wrong in their thinking or wrong in their chosen strategy being appropriate to their own considerations. Anyhow, it sounds as if you are merely talking your book, and you are hoping for some further BTC price declines... and it is likely going to be difficult to get BTC under $450, absent some pretty bad news or convincing FUD or someone or entity that is willing to spend a lot of fiat in order to engage in additional downward manipulation(s) of BTC prices. |
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What the actual fuck is going on??
Every time we see a spike in price huge sell walls start filling in
PayPal Braintree doesn't integrate bitcoin but use coinbase to sell bitcoins the more businesses "accept" bitcoin (immediately dump it on exchanges via market sells), the more it will crash. Ok... that seems to make sense. ... >>>> .... >>> ... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>>... >>>> .... >>> NOT! |
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1 year, 10 years 20 years , 50 years, 100years...? Bitcoin adoption will be much faster than 50 years. It will be more like 10-20 years. OK>.. so is that what tsoPANos is saying regarding his prediction? In about 15 years 1/7 of the world's population will adopt bitcoin in some kind of manner? |
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Just think; there will only be 21,000,000 (21 million) bitcoins in total,
while the global population is roughly 7,000,000,000 (7 billion).
If bitcoin gets shared equally in one seventh of the total population 1,000,000,000(1 billion),
it means that each human will get 21,000,000 / 1,000,000,000 = 0.021 btc.
If you own one btc, you will have 1/0.021=47.61 times more than the average.
Please note that my estimation is conservative, as I used only one billion people adoption.
Even though you suggest that you are being conservative by only projecting a 1/7 adoption rate - however, your estimate remains too speculate and too pie in the sky if you cannot put it in some kind of timeline.. 1 year, 10 years 20 years , 50 years, 100years...? Actually if the time line is 50 years to 100years, I am 99% positive that I will be dead by then.... and probably a lot of other persons participating in this thread will be dead also (or at least NOT in the best of shape to enjoy considerable wealth). In that regard, I believe a 1 Year to a less than 50 year projection would be more practical than describing NO timeline at all. |
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Low volume dumps. We either haven't seen anything and worst is to come or there is no much will to sell at these levels anymore.
Here's a simple little graph of how many asks there are, on Bitstamp, until $520 |: As the max, within a 24 hour period; rounded to nearest thousand.  So, quite simply, I disagree. Lots of people want to sell. EDIT: Forgot Sep 06, -- its 6k So, NOW, all of a sudden we are supposed to believe these fake walls? I will believe it when I see it.. that is if I see 10k BTC sold between $465 and $520. If we got enough upward volume, I am fairly confident that a lot of those supposed walls of BTC up to $520 would disappear.... KAPUUUUUT!!!! |
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1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat
So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)
Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money? (Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.) deposit fee is like 5$ for me, i dont do it often but when i do .....  trading into BTC is like 0.25%, but if you place your bid at 0.5% of current price your bid will most definitely fill ( market don't either go up or down they are constantly going up and down ...), and you actually end up with a saving on your purchase  When you are European you can use SEPA and buy for example on Kraken. I'm not sure for Americans cause you get fucked by your banks harder for normal transactions than us. Figure about 1% as one of the best competitive rates (through Coinbase). I am waiting for my circle account, which is supposedly free of fees... I'll believe it when I see it. 1% of your deposit? its not a flat fee? then like 0.25% pre trade?  There is NO such thing as pre-trade with Coinbase because there is NO trading on Coinbase. When you purchase BTC on Coinbase, that amount is transferred directly from your connected bank account with a 1% fee and $.15 per transaction (that is the total 1% + $.15 flat fee per transaction). If you cash out through Coinbase, the fee is the same 1% and $.15 per transaction and the cashed out deposit into fiat goes straight to your bank account. There is NO option to hold dollars on Coinbase. |
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1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat
So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)
Hmmm I'm sorry but how does this not entail spending 2x the amount of money, fiat or BTC. Depends upon definition... Of course, you have spent twice;however, one of those spending is a form of internal transfer from yourself and to yourself. The other is a transfer from yourself to another entity... Accordingly, there is only 1x spending from yourself to another entity. but you have to pay the fee even if you are "spending from yourself to yourself". Well that depends. But even if you do, it can be cheaper. As time progresses it will be cheaper more and more often. Yes - as wachtwoord mentioned there could be a fee and the fee could vary... and so the fuck what? Of course the fees can be accounted for in any person's total calculation about when to spend and how to spend and how much to spend, and s/he can engage in such calculations in order to decide what action to take. The mere fact that there are fees to transfer or to buy does NOT cause there to be double spending in the true sense of the phrase. A person is NOT having to spend twice as much for a product merely because s/he buys it with bitcoin, which had seemed to be the implication of the 2x assertion. |
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Perhaps an example helps.
Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location. The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.
GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:
Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$
Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.
@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.
Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
@JayJuanGee deposits 520$ into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.
@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.
@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.
@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account. Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.
NET RESULT:
Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees). The 5$ difference is their processing fee.
@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$. He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.
@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.
WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN
@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.
@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.
NET RESULT:
@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.
CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.
Yeah... attempt to get us to bite, by using our names.... O.k.... fine.. I will bite a little bit... while kicking and screaming somewhat with the hypothetical. I don't like homework and I do NOT own a Bitstamp account. Further, each of us calculates his/her spending behavior based on the options available, and that may NOT always be determined by BTC price alone, or transaction fees or whether we feel that someone else is profiting from us.. but also based on convenience and ideology ... and in the case of bitcoin that we may be also using it as a storage of wealth. Currently, I continue to buy and hold and to use BTC as a storage of wealth. I could give a flying fuck, if some earlier adopter, whether Rpietilla or any other earlier adopter, had bought at a cheaper price than me and is potentially profiting off my buying of BTC at a greater price. If I buy BTC, then I buy at the going market rate or I attempt to time my purchase on a price dip, and I engage in this behavior based on my own individual calculations of my best interest. These days, since my BTC portfolio is in the red, if I use BTC to purchase any kind of item, I immediately replace that BTC with additional BTC purchases. All your various numbers in your hypothetical are quasi-irrelevant because each person is going to calculate his/her behavior based on the options available to him/her and the goals s/he is attempting to achieve... and sometimes the calculations are going to change based on prices available and whether his/her portfolio is in the red or black and by how much. |
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1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat
So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)
Sigh. Can you please list ALL the fees that you pay when you purchase with bitcoin as you described, and the fees that you pay when paying directly with money? (Don forger that you must send money to Coinbase/BitpayPayPal/exchange or whatever in order to buy th ebitcoins, and that Coinbase/Bitpay/Paypal has to send the money to the merchant.) deposit fee is like 5$ for me, i dont do it often but when i do ..... trading into BTC is like 0.25%, but if you place your bid at 0.5% of current price your bid will most definitely fill ( market don't either go up or down they are constantly going up and down ...), and you actually end up with a saving on your purchase When you are European you can use SEPA and buy for example on Kraken. I'm not sure for Americans cause you get fucked by your banks harder for normal transactions than us. Figure about 1% as one of the best competitive rates (through Coinbase). I am waiting for my circle account, which is supposedly free of fees... I'll believe it when I see it. |
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1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat
So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)
Hmmm I'm sorry but how does this not entail spending 2x the amount of money, fiat or BTC. Depends upon definition... Of course, you have spent twice;however, one of those spending is a form of internal transfer from yourself and to yourself. The other is a transfer from yourself to another entity... Accordingly, there is only 1x spending from yourself to another entity. |
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1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.
1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part. 2. Maybe? Maybe not.. 1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc. 2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally. I think I just got proxy trollfied. Please ignore Jorge. He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.  1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees). 2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1  So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff. Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone). I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong. What you are saying is so stupid that it is NOT even worth an explanation, beyond to let you know that it is stupid. |
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